Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on September 28, 2008, 11:25:17 am
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I need a bit of help with the softener filter on my ionics system, it says it needs back washing, do i still need to do this in a soft water area my tds is 80,
if so what salt do i have to use, do you fill the glass container to the top ?
I have read the manual but it doesnt mention about soft water.
And do you really have to do it everytime you use a tank full of water ?
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buy another system mate that one will cost you a fortune to maintain. And you have to do a backwash every 1000ltrs
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you need to fill the glass container with salt and then connect the red hoses to the water softener. to flush the salt through it and regenerate the filter.
make sure you let the salt totally clear and then flush with the clear water for the last 30 secs. otherwise the salt content will enter the ro and blow the membrane (from experience!!)
although personally why you need to use it with a tds reading that low is beyond me, mine leaves the mains at 370 so i make sure my salt is backwashed before every fill.
did ionics advise you that you would need this ?
or did you get the great customer service that all there customers get once the money has changed hands!!!
anything else i can help with just shout.
greg
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make sure you change the di filter they supply for a di vessel and then buy bagged resin, this will save you and arm and aleg going forward, the only other variable after that is the carbon filter and they only need changing every 300k litres through so not that expensive, the salt cannister will last for a good few years if regenerated every fill.
greg
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greg
I bought it second hand, so dont know much about it.
Where do you get the salt from and do you fill to the top.
My guess is with a low tds reading, do i really need to backwash at all ?
When do you know when the carbon needs changing ? is it just a matter of 300'000 litres or is there another sign/test ?
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i buy the salt from a farm shop, in 25 l bags it is dishwasher regeneration salt granules not tablets, works out about £25.00 for four bags (100l) that will last me about three to four months.
i think the only way to check the carbon filter is the water through on the water meter, what is the reading (black numbers not red) and you are only assuming the previous owner maaintained properly.
my advice for £60-£70 change it anyway and be safe, unless you know the previous owner.
how old is the system?
greg
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The reading is on 300'000 now it is probably 5 years old ?
What are the consequences of the carbon filter being too old .
The di vessil is still blue so at least that is a recent change.
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Next question , now i know how to regenerate the water softener .
What is the the othe considerations with maintenance ?
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on my system it goes softener the carbon the di is this the right way as i have seen some carbon before softener.
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Dave.
Don't bother with the softener with your TDS. It's there to take calcium out in hard water areas.
I would by-pass it altogether if you can. You have absolutely no need for it.
The carbon filter is there to take chlorine out of the water because it attacks RO membranes. To be on the safe side I would replace it with a new one.
Hope this helps
Andrew
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Dave.
Don't bother with the softener with your TDS. It's there to take calcium out in hard water areas.
I would by-pass it altogether if you can. You have absolutely no need for it.
The carbon filter is there to take chlorine out of the water because it attacks RO membranes. To be on the safe side I would replace it with a new one.
Hope this helps
Andrew
You can still keep it, Using the RO will extend the life of the DI filters and save money in the long run.
You will still get waste from the RO, so because the waste wont be such a high TDS (compared to hard water areas), you can regenerate it back into the RO thus saving water too.
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Dave.
Don't bother with the softener with your TDS. It's there to take calcium out in hard water areas.
I would by-pass it altogether if you can. You have absolutely no need for it.
The carbon filter is there to take chlorine out of the water because it attacks RO membranes. To be on the safe side I would replace it with a new one.
Hope this helps
Andrew
You can still keep it, Using the RO will extend the life of the DI filters and save money in the long run.
You will still get waste from the RO, so because the waste wont be such a high TDS (compared to hard water areas), you can regenerate it back into the RO thus saving water too.
Yes keep the RO but just don't bother with the softener. It isn't needed with a TDS as low as Dave's
Andrew
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Thanks guys does the softener look like light brown resin, i am just wonering in case some one has substituted it with resin, it looks very similar to di resin
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Hi Dave
Yes it is brown ;)
Steve
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yes the softner is brown , should have a sticker on the left hand side saying its the softner, the carbon one is dark almost black, definitely change your di cartridge for a vessel which is much more economical.
i was going through a DI cartridge every 4- 6 weeks @ about £70 +vat +delivery, now i use one bag of resin every 10 months @ £70 a bag.
you will also need to flush the membrane weekly, can talk you through this if you get stuck
greg
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Spoke to Steve Peel from Ionics last week, apparently a lot of people are now fitting magnets in line instead of a water softener, they do the same thing, ie break down the limescale in the water.
Require no maintenance and no back-flushing, anyone using this method?
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Spoke to Steve Peel from Ionics last week, apparently a lot of people are now fitting magnets in line instead of a water softener, they do the same thing, ie break down the limescale in the water.
Require no maintenance and no back-flushing, anyone using this method?
You can buy those devices that do the same thing.. stick em at the water feed from the street just as the pipes enter your house, then ANY water you use in your home will be treated!
So you save your washing machine, shower, kettle etc too!
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dave - bin the softener, prefilter, carbon and di.
replace the Ionics prefilter and carbon housings with 20inch pentek 3g housings and filters. They perform much better than the ionics. replace the di with a standard composite vessel.
get it all at gapswater.
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I have got it all up and running now , i back flushed the softener. also i sent pure water through the ro,s for 30 mins with the waste open full.
At the moment the water coming out of the Ro's one of them reads "1" and the other reads "8" dont know why ones higher than the other but it will do for a start.
So all in all i am pleased with the RO's was worried they might be broke.
The total reading in the tank is "4" so the di vessil shouldnt be a problem,
How do you guage your 60/40 ratio on your pure to waste , is that right the pure should be 60 and the waste 40
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Its getting better
After the ro's I am getting a big fat " Zero" from one,and "three" from the other, maybe they will both go to zero.
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i dont measure a ratio, i just wind my pressure back from 43psi to about 38, this puts water in my tank at around 11ppm happy with that considering it starts at 370. what i do know though is more waste = better quality water
greg
the magnet idea sounds very interesting, think i saw one on a website the other day
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Dave,
Is it the Thermopure system you've got?
Once a week connect a hose from your cold water outfeed to the infeed and flush the RO with pure water for half an hour
Also every other fill, backflush your softener with dishwasher salt (79p for 3kg from Tesco), half fill the cannister with salt connect your red pipes to either end of the softener and flush until all the salt has gone, taste the waste water to check it's free of salt.
I've got a copy of the manual for all the systems on the computer if you or anyone wants a copy.
ian@lionheartcleaning.co.uk
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Ian
No its not the thermopure it is a 1000 litre pro 5 with twin ro's
I have done the back wash today, also ran pure water through the RO with the waste set to max.
Any other advice is very welcome.
Dave
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Spoke to Steve Peel from Ionics last week, apparently a lot of people are now fitting magnets in line instead of a water softener, they do the same thing, ie break down the limescale in the water.
Require no maintenance and no back-flushing, anyone using this method?
You can buy those devices that do the same thing.. stick em at the water feed from the street just as the pipes enter your house, then ANY water you use in your home will be treated!
So you save your washing machine, shower, kettle etc too!
Ok i looked into it, somewhat.
h ttp://www.scalewatcher.co.uk/
Scalewatcher is a compact, computerised electronic water conditioner which will descale your existing system, prevent new scale forming and save you money from the moment it is installed.
The Scalewatcher uses modern technology to create an electrical field that changes the shape and behaviour of scale forming calcium. This action stops further build up of scale and as the solubility of the water is increased, existing scale will be progressively reduced.
Does it really work?
The Scalewatcher has been tested by Portsmouth University, numerous publications and has won the Ideal Home Blue Ribbon Award which is why it comes with a money-back performance guarantee. With a proven 98% success rate over 16 years.
How can I tell if it's working? - What to look for:
- In around 4 to 6 weeks you should notice:
- The softening of scale around the basins
- Scale flaking away from the kettle element and shower rose
- Water often feels silkier
- Water feeling hotter, improved performance of washing machines and dishwashers.
- Reduction in use of soap, soap powder, shampoo, detergents and cleaners.
- Easier cleaning of surfaces, especially baths, basins and sinks
Does it affect the drinking water?
Water remains chemically unchanged, retaining the beneficial minerals and tastes the same so you do not need a separate drinking tap.
Where does the scale that is reduced go?
As the scale does not stick to pipework and appliances it all goes down the plug and leaves the house with the water.
Can I fit the unit?
As no plumbing is involved most customers fit the unit themselves and it should take no more than 30 mins, or you can use a local handy man or electrician.
Does it require any maintenance?
Once installed the unit will require no maintenance at all, for It's expected life span is 20 years or more.
How much does it cost to run?
The units costs about £3.00 a year in electricity.
What pipe material is suitable?
The unit can be fitted on copper, plastic, steel and lead pipes. It works on painted or unpainted pipe or pipes with condensation if you have lagged pipe reduce the lagging, fit the coil and lag on the top of the coil.
Where should the unit be fitted?
The ideal place is on the rising main so all the water that enters the house is treated. But if necessary it can be fitted further up the system.
How much pipe is needed for installation?
To fit the unit you require 10 cm of straight pipe. This can be horizontal, vertical or diagonal pipe. However you can treat 2 pipes with one unit.
What if it does not work?
We can normally solve most problems. If we can't you get your money back.
Will the scale that is reduced block pipes?
No, the calcium is gradually dissolved back into solution.
Will it cause leaks?
No, in 18 years of selling Scalewatcher we have had no problems regarding leaks.
Is the Scalewatcher suitable for all types of water systems?
Yes. It does not matter how you heat your water the Scalewatcher treats all systems. For complex or commercial applications please call our help line.
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You can use cheap dishwasher salt from the supermarket to backwash the softener.
Also, when all of the salt has dissolved and gone through, keep running the water through, until the TDS reading coming out from the waste is back down to normal tap TDS. (This can take a while, but worth it)
I ran di water with a reading of "0" through the back wash and did as you said, it took about 1 hour, I dont think i need to do it every fill maybe every 4 with having only a 70 tds reading
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I would fit a DI can aswell it will make the resin cartridges last much much longer.
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Dave i've had a pro 5 for 7 years now, if you want any more help mate give me a bell ;)
Stuart
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Thanks
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dave mate you really don't need to be backflushing at all - just a 5 minute through flush before each fill is more than adequate. membranes will last for years with your tap tds.
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Alan
I spent longer on the first flush as i didnt know what water had been through it before hand, and had bee stood idle for quite a while.
I just wanted to start with a blank canvas.
Cant believe how slow RO is and how much messing, at least with DI it is ultra simple.
But i will persevere.
My problem is low water pressure and low flow rate , only 30 psi max
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Dave
If you only have 30 psi you will need a booster pump. I have 35-40psi and i use a pump to take it up to 75 psi then its much quicker ;)
Steve