Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lee_dewing on September 24, 2008, 12:59:56 pm
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look through my diary the other day and worked out my ave earnings £399.50p a week.
wondered where i'm going wrong.
i can't start till 9.30am as of mr mum duties but i think i work pretty hard, i chat to the odd custy, but at the end of the day custy's are usually to busy to talk and so am i.
I'm wfp for 2 yrs been on my own 3yrs + 2yrs for someone else, built all my work from scratch and keep refineing.
I am now charging £15 for semis , and £15-£20 for detached trying to dump front only's.
any advice
it takes me 5 weeks to get round.
thanks lee
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how many customers, I am trad and can take over £100 per day. Also whats your average basket spend and how many days are you working, hours per day also?
gerard :)
Just reading your other post about doing frames then windows, this could be a factor as well, how many other w/c's do that. Also I admire you going above and beyond your compeditors like that but if that is taking up allot of your time you may want to concider stopping and just doing the glass WFP.
Gerard 8)
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I was going to ask, have you got george, and then I saw I use internet at the library, so the answer to that question would be no.
This is the reason your av 400pw.Your problem is organising your work. I have just bought a 9" comp from dell a mini 9 for £279 for my son. This with george on it would transform your life. (you will need a printer to print out your work).
Trust me this is your main problem.
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If that's an average, then that's not bad at all.
You start a bit later, take time to chat and charge decent prices.
Yes a good week should make you more than £400, but a poor week of weather or illness will see a hell of a lot less.
If everything is taken into account and you still average £400 a week I would complain too much.
I'm sure there's a large amount of people on here doing less. ;)
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dont dump your front onlys !!! ???
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not the worst living in the world for a 6 hour day ;)
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Doesn't sound as if you are doing too badly, if that is a true average that you will maintain throughout 12 months then you are turning over 20k....that is a good 3k more than an awful lot of window cleaners I assure you...
As to where (or even if) you are going wrong; well an average 3 bed semi, done WFP - including frames & doors - should take you no more than 15 minutes. Now a lot of trad window cleaners can do it in that time, but with WFP you should be able to average that kind of time easily, and at £15 per semi you are getting good prices therefore over the course of a day there should be many days when your turnover far exceeds £100.
I guess it really depends exactly what you mean by your weekly average.
With the prices you are charging you should be able to work at a rate of '£1.00 per minute worked' quite comfortably...now that doesn't mean you are going to go along and earn £60 an hour! And you may well be working at those kind of speeds, but if your worked out averages are done accurately then it also takes into account down time when you are not able to work...
I guess you need to give out a fair bit more info for us to see if you are actually doing anything wrong at all! :-\
Ian
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Averagin £400 a week this time of year is good money in anyones eyes.
With all the poope weather we keep getting, i bet most earnings are around £400-£450.
BUT...............£15 for a semi, bloody hell. Wish I could get that >:(
Bob
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thanks guys.
gerard, i always aim for £100 min.
but most times hit £120 a day. basket spend does that mean what i spend on equipment? if so i reckon £10 a week covers perishables i.e filters resin, poles.
regarding other post i do thorough job glass frames but future cleans i only go over frames if visible dirty(sorry did you or discount mention this).
Discount, thanks for tip on george keep thinking of getting, trouble is i've only got rooom for a laptop (i live in tiny starter home). price of laptops has come down considerabley, also you don't have to have a printer so i been told you can use palm and hot sync em together, no paper.
Don't mean so sound arrogant discount, but i think i pretty well organised or am i not seeing the full picture?
Squeaky, your properly right i'm not doing to bad, but compared to what others say on here i'm the poor cousin.
hate to say it but do you think some on here aren't entirely honest :D
thanks all lee
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Squeaky, your properly right i'm not doing to bad, but compared to what others say on here i'm the poor cousin.
hate to say it but do you think some on here aren't entirely honest :D
thanks all lee
We're little more than tadpoles mate.
They're all doing thousands... ;)
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gerard, i forgot to say about 230 customers, takes me about 5 weeks to get around.
Ian & bod.
I must clarify i am now charging £15 for semis as it dosen't matter if i do them or not, still a bit of room for maybe 2-3 days work.
suppose £12 is ave for semis and £7-£7.50 fronts. I hate front only jobs and only do if in the road with other jobs(the backs don't get that dirty ;D brigade).
maybe i'm in danger of being arrogant.
also i think i have definately under charged in the past.
I start 9.30am mon-wed till 5pm thurs fri 8.45am-ish till 5pm sometimes i work saturdays on ave 1 a month, but will have to increase this due to mr mum, pre-school duties.
I hate losing time to the weather(as everyone does i know).
I think it takes me on ave 20 mins to do 3 bed semi as i use trolley system, thinking of getting microbore on steel reel and leave trolley on board as much as poss. still do do a few windows and doors downstairs trad.
hope that helps clarify things a bit more.
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thanks ewan.
oh yeh ian bod
i have freedom trolley 10 barrels, ford escot van. if there's any other info needed let us know, probably back on net saturday, need to work hard thurs fri make up for wet weather today.
just rembered working 6 hours ave time you take off travelling about, price at £20 per hour, but been told to price at £30 p/hour as a third of your time is lost not cleaning windows.
I don't tend to count windows at £1 or £2 a go as 2 houses can be indentical
,same windows, but obstructions i.e plants kids bikes garden furniture, locked gates can alter cleaning time considerablely.
I basically walk round the house and estimate how long job will take, think of the price and try to compare it to any similar jobs on my round.
or say your looking at £15 - £20; give myself a bit of a buffer.
Phew, thanks all ;) lee
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No you are not getting the full picture.Lots will disagree with me, but this is the reason. It's a big subject and not worth going into unless you are receptive.
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Hi lee
first thank for your open answers, I know allot of people are a little dubious about putting figure on here, and can understand this.
You have said you work 5 days taking over £100 each day, so I would assume you should be able to generate £500+ per week.
I agree with most people's post on here, you are actually doing quite well, but would say you could do alittle more.
Ok, then 20mins per semi, 2 per hour at £15, 7.5 hours 3 days , then 8.5 two days, thats 34.5 hours taking off an hour lunch each day. So against your £30 per hour thats £1035 per week, at 13/14 customers per day. So 270 customers per month.
I dont think you will get that but aim high and if you fall alittle short, then at least it was your best effort.
Ok, reading between the lines alittle I sense from the tone of your topic even if it is ok, you are unsure and think yourself you could do more. So here is were I think you could do alittle bit more.
on thur and fri why not start at 8, and could you work to 6 each night.
I would concider using a PC to keep even just a backup of you books, I dont use george I have designed my own database for this but find you wont miss any tricks with a PC system supporting your efforts
Do you think you could do, 13/ 14 per day, and if so aim to increase you books to 270 if you can and I would work saturdays but thats a personal choice you have to make. If you do work sat's you'll only have to do 11 per day at £15, and enjoy a well deserved sunday off.
Also, on the PC point, its absolutely fine not to use one but there is certain advantages that might sway you.
You can print off your days work incase you miss-place your diary
You can analyis your data for example;-
highligh any customers that dont have a next booking date
Keep recorde of price rises, date, amount, next rise ect
Date you last changes blades on sqeegee's or resins etc
Amount of booking you have complete
list of missed bookings
List of customer that haven't paid or has outstanding bills
queery for 4 weekly, 8 week, weekly customers
Data on which methods you use allowing you to plan ahead, ladders, WFP, extention poles ect.
You can also use this data to generate reciepts, invoices etc
as well as mailing list. If you can offer adittional services conservatory cleaning, internal glass doors, mirrors. If you can do more work and get more money off each customer you'll make a good bit more money.
Its worth a thought
hope that helps mate
gerard :)
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gerard, i forgot to say about 230 customers, takes me about 5 weeks to get around.
I must clarify i am now charging £15 for semis as it dosen't matter if i do them or not, still a bit of room for maybe 2-3 days work.
suppose £12 is ave for semis and £7-£7.50 fronts. I hate front only jobs and only do if in the road with other jobs(the backs don't get that dirty ;D brigade).
maybe i'm in danger of being arrogant.
).
I
Just curious when you say average semi, do you mean a house around the size of a council house, with around 10 window and 2 doors?
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I`m not trying to start another pointless thread about i earn more than you but it`s makes no difference in how quick you can do a 3 bed semi etc,this job is all about quality work and how much of it you have.The answer to your question is you should be doing far more even with a seriously dodgy week,i`m being honest if i was doing what your quoting i can honestly say i wouldn`t be working for myself,what would be the point.
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i wouldnt frop your front onlys,they might go to someone else for there windows and you could lose windows,doing water fed pole you should be aiming for 150-200 a day,but if your doing a good job and custy happy then stick at it,400 a week aint the worst for a 30 hour week
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I`m not trying to start another pointless thread about i earn more than you but it`s makes no difference in how quick you can do a 3 bed semi etc,this job is all about quality work and how much of it you have.The answer to your question is you should be doing far more even with a seriously dodgy week,i`m being honest if i was doing what your quoting i can honestly say i wouldn`t be working for myself,what would be the point.
amen, although minimum wage is 240 etc, thats for no collecting, no overheads etc... 400 when you minus evrything doesnt leave you much better off for all the xtra work!
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£13.30 an hour is it worth going self employed,take off expenses he`ll be lucky if he can afford to live.What happens if the van-car goes wrong or another bill crops up,this is what some on here don`t take into account when pricing initially.
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I`m not trying to start another pointless thread about i earn more than you but it`s makes no difference in how quick you can do a 3 bed semi etc,this job is all about quality work and how much of it you have.The answer to your question is you should be doing far more even with a seriously dodgy week,i`m being honest if i was doing what your quoting i can honestly say i wouldn`t be working for myself,what would be the point.
amen, although minimum wage is 240 etc, thats for no collecting, no overheads etc... 400 when you minus evrything doesnt leave you much better off for all the xtra work!
what extra work hes only doing 6 hours not 8 and idot think his overheads can be anywhere near £160 a week
Wish my overheads were only £160 a week :'(
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I`m not trying to start another pointless thread about i earn more than you but it`s makes no difference in how quick you can do a 3 bed semi etc,this job is all about quality work and how much of it you have.The answer to your question is you should be doing far more even with a seriously dodgy week,i`m being honest if i was doing what your quoting i can honestly say i wouldn`t be working for myself,what would be the point.
amen, although minimum wage is 240 etc, thats for no collecting, no overheads etc... 400 when you minus evrything doesnt leave you much better off for all the xtra work!
what extra work hes only doing 6 hours not 8 and idot think his overheads can be anywhere near £160 a week
he's prices are more than mine, and he's wfp, and id done that day rate by 11.30 am today- trad, not bragging but maybe some people just need to move a bit quicker ... Dont take offense though chap, it was you who said is it worth it? i dont think it is unless you are earning well, but if you are happy and living on 400 then why stop just because someone earns more! keep doing it... but if you are saying it because you want more money then my advice is "get moving", you are obviously dawdling too much if your prices are good and you are wfp, only other factor is your round is not very compact at all, or your chats are killing your hourly rate...
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£20!! i spend that on food! what about car tax, public liabilty, insurances, fuel, water rates .....
Theres more than 20, before you account for tax!!
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Looking through the figures you have provided, you are pretty much matching me on time per job but you have better prices.
However, i have earnt your 5.30pm figure by 1pm.
I figured your technique must be suspect but your times working with a trolley are similar to mine. ???
What is your water usage per semi?
Cos i think you can reduce your times by getting a 250 litre tank + reel of hose. Connect trolley to your tank. Turn up your flowrate, rinse on the glass and knock 1/4 of that time off.
Oh and get a 12v submersible pump and carry 1 barrel for when you need it.
I can't understand if you start at 9.30 why you aren't home by 2?
Do you take long breaks between jobs?
With your prices, times and the hours you work, you should (and will sooner or later) be hitting your weekly figure on tuesday.
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£20!! i spend that on food! what about car tax, public liabilty, insurances, fuel, water rates .....
Theres more than 20, before you account for tax!!
youpay for food and car tax whatever you are doing,public liabilty £1.20 a week,fuel dont work more than 4 miles from home park up and dont move car till i go home,compact round,water rates not on a metre so pay them whatever
well thats pretty good then, mine are alot higher, but i make alot too, so wings and roundabouts eh, i prob have to work harder though :(
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£13.30 an hour is it worth going self employed,take off expenses he`ll be lucky if he can afford to live.What happens if the van-car goes wrong or another bill crops up,this is what some on here don`t take into account when pricing initially.
you think like me... i cant believe what iv read on this thread ???i cant put my true figures on this forum for obviuose reasons.....but cumon ...
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look through my diary the other day and worked out my ave earnings £399.50p a week.
wondered where i'm going wrong.
i can't start till 9.30am as of mr mum duties but i think i work pretty hard, i chat to the odd custy, but at the end of the day custy's are usually to busy to talk and so am i.
I'm wfp for 2 yrs been on my own 3yrs + 2yrs for someone else, built all my work from scratch and keep refineing.
I am now charging £15 for semis , and £15-£20 for detached trying to dump front only's.
any advice
it takes me 5 weeks to get round.
thanks lee
For a 6 hours day at those prices, I can't understand why you aren't taking a minimum of £150 a day for your turnover - and that's a conservative figure. I don't want that to sound critical or arrogant but if I take under £100 in a day (and it does happen), it means that I've not been applying myself. I've done a few half days recently (I've had a heavy cold, under the weather etc.) and taken around that.
However, it's not about what someone earns - it's about how you feel about it (IMO of course).
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i think the answer you want then lee, is if you are happy with your wage and hours, then its all good, however if you want more money, then you do have the potential to almost double your average there mate...
good luck
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Two points stand out - you use a trolley and Shiner's point about applying yourself.
For me when I went to a trolley and got settled in I was about 15% quicker than off ladders. When I went to a car with microbore that upped to 25%. With a van I now earn 60% more than off ladders - over a year - and I'm less tired.
When I apply myself - on domestic - out at 9 am on the dot - work briskly (not mental) take a packed lunch - finish at 4.30, I will hit twice what I did off ladders.
If I start at 9.45, work steadily, home for an hour lunch, finish at 4.15 then I do about 50% more than I did off ladders.
That hour and a half lost and not being organised for the day costs me £50.
But I like the odd lazy day too and toddle home with a bit over three figures under my belt at 2pm and I do some chores or out for a cycle ride or visit my mum or collect my daughter from school or out on the motorbike.
So yeh, it's worth it!
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Two points stand out - you use a trolley and Shiner's point about applying yourself.
For me when I went to a trolley and got settled in I was about 15% quicker than off ladders. When I went to a car with microbore that upped to 25%. With a van I now earn 60% more than off ladders - over a year - and I'm less tired.
When I apply myself - on domestic - out at 9 am on the dot - work briskly (not mental) take a packed lunch - finish at 4.30, I will hit twice what I did off ladders.
If I start at 9.45, work steadily, home for an hour lunch, finish at 4.15 then I do about 50% more than I did off ladders.
That hour and a half lost and not being organised for the day costs me £50.
But I like the odd lazy day too and toddle home with a bit over three figures under my belt at 2pm and I do some chores or out for a cycle ride or visit my mum or collect my daughter from school or out on the motorbike.
So yeh, it's worth it!
My apolgies to Lee. I missed the bit about being a trolley user. I found that slower than a van mount. Even so, it should still be possible to earn rather more than so far. It can be a help to have a bit of hose attached to the trolley to save on moving it.
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??? ??? ??? £400 a week ....good pricing structureit at £15 a semi....it doesnt add up.....with those prices you should be hitting a £1000 a week easily....
how many hours a day do you work?
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Should be earning more than that with prices like that.
sometimes its quicker doing trad on small houses at £15 a time 20mins each one .sounds like your method may be wrong.I use both wfp and trad, and on some larger houses i use a mix which evers more productive.
(before someone says its not good practice both methods are good)
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??? ??? ??? £400 a week ....good pricing structureit at £15 a semi....it doesnt add up.....with those prices you should be hitting a £1000 a week easily....
how many hours a day do you work?
yes thats only 27ish houses a week (on average) at that price
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hiya, imo you could be wasting a lot of time messing about getting trolley in & out of car, switching barrels etc.
I reckon if you switched to a van Mount you'd def be on £200 a day
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£15 for a semi and you average £400 a week?? Thats about 5 a day.
we get £5/£6 up here for a semi and will do 30 to 40 a day each.
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30 to 40 wfp??
Thats about 10 hours work! i do one in about 15 mins, but thats not accounting or any stoppage, or travel between, so 4 x 8 is 32, max! But well done, thats a good wage anyway!
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I was going to ask, have you got george, and then I saw I use internet at the library, so the answer to that question would be no.
This is the reason your av 400pw.Your problem is organising your work. I have just bought a 9" comp from dell a mini 9 for £279 for my son. This with george on it would transform your life. (you will need a printer to print out your work).
Trust me this is your main problem.
george isnt necassary for window cleaning you can organize yourself just with a book
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I was going to ask, have you got george, and then I saw I use internet at the library, so the answer to that question would be no.
This is the reason your av 400pw.Your problem is organising your work. I have just bought a 9" comp from dell a mini 9 for £279 for my son. This with george on it would transform your life. (you will need a printer to print out your work).
Trust me this is your main problem.
george isnt necassary for window cleaning you can organize yourself just with a book
I thought that. ;D
Buying a computer program will make him work faster and get him more money you know. ;)
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Nessasary for window cleaning no, but the bear-necessity isn't always best. 100 years ago W/C went out on bikes, so is a car a necessity, no. But it sure makes life allot easier, and there for improves productivity.
You can’t print of invoices or receipt, quickly produce progress report with averages and highlight problem areas like regular non payers easily with a book, but you can with a PC there for improving productivity.
I will add. I don’t use George, but use my own system, and use a diary throughout the day as well as enjoying the potential benefits that a properly used pc can offer a business.
Gerard :)
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gerard, thanks.
thanks to you all guys; great response.
I am guilty of talking to customers, but i think a few mins is good customer relations, most people don't want to put the world to right with you.
I think trolley system is costing me time; versus van mount but unfortunately due to having r/o system at parents and not a guaranteed parking space outside, then barrels it is.
but will invest in microbore steel reel, did buy 50 metre minibore,plastic reel didn't seem to speed me up (slow me down was more the case).
My work is all built up from scratch, i do have some roads with 4-5 custy's in but do have alot of 1 job in a road. obviously i wouldn't drive to a single job for a fiver!
I am refining all the time.
As to technique with wfp maybe i am to over careful, i must admit my belt and braces attitude is costing me money.
I use to do alot of windows by hand downstairs, to save on water.
also smashing jobs out at 15 mins a time at £15-£20 a go worries me slightly from the custy's aspecy £1 a minute.
I know this isn't true as time lost to weather travel etc. AND THIS IS OBVIOUSLY WHERE I'M GOING WRONG TO.
I don't always agree with the mathmatical equations on here, i.e £15 house 15 mins= 4 houses an hour = £60 an hour x 6 hrs = £360.
I know this is not the exact numbers given on here but come on stay real :D
we are human and not robots and it isn't a perfect day every day.
Maybe i'm wrong. Obviously i'm getting something wrong.
I'l print all this off and go through everything.
I really appreciate everyones opinions on here.
I am far from perfect, and i am always trying to improve.
I think confidence is a big issue in this job, and probably my over cautious attitude is costing me.
I must admit i got into this by accident (as have many). Thinking as a businessman dosen't come naturally to me as being p.a.y.e for 16 years.
Thanks again everyone.
take care.
Lee (slow-lee ;))
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Hi Lee
I have been in a similar situation as you. I have been over cautious in the past, trying to do a perfect job. The way I see it is that you need to strike a balance between a good/acceptable job and earning a good living. Bill Gates never brough out a perfect version of windows but that hasn't stoped him, has it.
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£15 a semi ? i wish.
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yeah this game is worth it!
After university i couldn't find a job for love nor money with my Degree in Motorsport Engineering or even my HND in Automotive engineering, i couldn't get any automotive engineering job period! Why, cos i had no "experience" >:( >:( :'( :'(
So eventually, i ending up working for my uncle as a trad window cleaner. I loved the work, meeting cutys, being in the open air (occasionally getting wet through) but i hated the 2-3 hours travelling i had to do to get to my uncles everyday! Up at 5.30am, leave at 6, round to my uncles on the M25, and back it took like 2 hours. After working a 10 ish hour day on ladders, the last thing you need is the m25 to negotiate.
I eventually decided i wanted to move away to be with my missus, and the first job i found was working for an insurance company on 12k a year (£180 a week). To say stressful was an understatement, getting shouted at by customers on the phone because the engineer has written off their car etc... it was enough to drive me to drink when i got home. Everyday i got some cans on the way home and drink away my troubles from the day.
After a while i thought about it, realised that i missed WC-ing and decided to set up on my own, after a year or so im doing quite well, and happy to wakeup in the morning and get to work, meeting cutys doing a good job that they appreciate.
|If you have 1 custy in a road, well thats great! you have a starting point to get more! Go knock on everyone's door and drum up business. They already have a window cleaner? no biggie, give them your card say if they have any problems with their current one, then to give you a bell as your in the street anyway.
People dont always take you on if theve not seen you before. It may take a few months of them seeing you about and think hmm yeah i keep seeing him/them about. They may enquire with your regular custy about what you are like. I got a whole cul de sac like that. £££ ;D
Be persistent with mail drops. I put in flyers everywhere i go, but i space it out to every 3-4 months, i dont want to p the people off with my flyer every month.
Main thing is you really need a passion for this game, if your half hearted at it, so your work will be half hearted, and you will lose custom.
Keep at it, good luck!
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thanks david & chris.
looking back i've not done bad working for a window cleaner on £80 a day trad, and i do mean hard.
I'm now my own boss own round of 230 custy's.
I've tried door knocking chris but never anymore successful than leafletting.
best is being seen out on job and recommendation.
cheers all lee. :)