Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sunshine on September 11, 2008, 11:15:09 pm
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Hello all
Want to know if you think it would be possible to earn £30k a year window cleaning.
Been thinking about packing my regular job in to work for myself (fulltime).
Let me know what you think
regards
S
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no chance you would be lucky to earn 13k
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More risks associated with self employment. Rewards are greater but so are the risks. Think hard whatever you do :)
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30 k earned ???
turnover or profit ??? ???
what does earned mean to you
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thanks for your prompt reply....i was thinking £30k before tax
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if you take your job seriusly it sould not be diffucult
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but it would be worth doing ;D
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if you take your job seriusly it sould not be diffucult
what ???
ONE bloke......you lot read too much of that bwca stuff
its hard work
fraught with problems
dont believe the hype
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To earn £30k pre tax you would have to be turning over about £50k.
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Sunshine,
This is going to be a contreversial post with some of the old timers on here but!!!
Don't listen to some of the overated wannabes on this forum.
The world is your oyster, you can earn as much as you want if you have the time and sheer grit and termination, there is a few people on here who claim to making trebble that and have done very little to earn it.
Do not believe them.
Your business is just that your business don't let people on here give you crap advice saying you cant earn more than £30,000 a year you can quite easily, you just have to have the right business accumen
and strategy unlike some.
This is for the old hats if you want to call them that. Stop given crap advice to the newbies and get back to the real reason why we talk to each other on this forum. (KNOWLEDGE) not crap.
And if you cant understand this diagram then go away.
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I got £40 and a bag of apples today :(
a bag of apples as well :o :o :o
you jammy git
Ok clever JT explain SNR even if it is right infront of you.
You obviously didnt get the last post i made. I will put it in LAYMEN TERMS FOR YOU ( GO AWAY)
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Roger
I know where you are coming form you might make good money but there are loads more who do not.
Where i live and work i dont know anyone who i talk too who makes "forum" wages.
Like yourself I do ok, but i meet so many who do not, in fact i have just bought a round of a local guy who couldnt hack anymore and he has gone into a paid job.
I think we should keep this post balanced, as in every walk of life , there are those that achieve and those that dont
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you have to look at a year as not 52 weeks but realistically 46 weeks
now £30k over 46 weeks = £652 a week.
through experience I can tell you a week is only good for 4 days work = £163 a day.
Apparently no one on here makes less than £25 an hour = 6.5hrs a day.
So for the guys who don't/can't earn more than £30k a year - what are doing with the time? 4 days @ 6.5hrs = 27hrs a week.
Dave - how do you come to the conclusion that £30k pre-tax equates to 50k turnover? Pre means before, overheads on one van is nowhere near 20k a year mate, come on, I know you use a lot of resin but not that much. I take your point onboard that some don't do as well as others but I feel often its because of lack of effort.
Lastly, Sunshine - it'll take you a while to get quick enough and get enough customers to earn 30k.
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The world is your oyster, you can earn as much as you want.
Stop given crap advice to the newbies and get back to the real reason why we talk to each other on this forum. (KNOWLEDGE) not crap.
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2 totally conflicting sentences there RS.
I want to earn 1 million a week, but it ain't gonna happen so stop giving crap advise ::)
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as in every walk of life , there are those that achieve and those that dont
I have come to this conclusion as well. this business can be as acheivable as you want it to be. i don't think some people grasp the reality of business, I think some people are happy plodding along and being thier own boss. that is not a put down to anyone just an observation. 30k is acheivable. but you will only get out what you put in ;)
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Roger
I know where you are coming form you might make good money but there are loads more who do not.
Where i live and work i dont know anyone who i talk too who makes "forum" wages.
Like yourself I do ok, but i meet so many who do not, in fact i have just bought a round of a local guy who couldnt hack anymore and he has gone into a paid job.
I think we should keep this post balanced, as in every walk of life , there are those that achieve and those that dont
thats my vote for post of the year
i know 22 window cleaners and maybe 3 of em make "forum " wages as dave puts it
3 years ago one died in virtual poverty at 70 yrs old working till a month before he died
another i knew on "nodding" terms topped himself,some say his debt problems got out of hand
two sides to every story
some will do well
some get by
others dont
just like any other business
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Alan
Over heads on a £50k turnover
Vehicle payments or depreciation £4k
Fuel, tax, insurance , repairs £4-£5k
equipment £2k- £3k
advertising , envelopes , computer £2k
Insurance , subscription etc £500 ?
Telephone £300
use of home as office £520
protective clothing £100
Laundry £100
Accountant £400
Training / trade shows ?
Loan interest and charges ?
Employee costs ? £5k ( Most people dont take £50k on there own)
Bad debts ?
Just a guess really,
but there is more to it than most people think
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The world is your oyster, you can earn as much as you want.
Stop given crap advice to the newbies and get back to the real reason why we talk to each other on this forum. (KNOWLEDGE) not crap.
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2 totally conflicting sentences there RS.
I want to earn 1 million a week, but it ain't gonna happen so stop giving crap advise ::)
You all still seem to be missing the point.
Dave: If i had a £50 (I see you changed it to K) turnover i wouldnt even waste my time on this forum and yes some do better than others, but dont suggest to the newbies it cant be done because it can.
JT: your obviously a one man band, if you employ 3 people you will easily clear £50,000 a year after tax, like i said you have to have the right business acumen even if you dont like it.
Dave: There seems to be a lot of very confused people on this forum to what they can actually earn, not a good idea to send the wrong signals to the newbies.
IMO: this forum has become a witch hunt for achievers and under-achievers shame on you all.
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The whole point of this forum is for the under achievers to learn from the achievers to benefit themselves and help others along the path of achievement. A wise man never stops learning no matter how experienced he may think he is :)
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Hello all
Want to know if you think it would be possible to earn £30k a year window cleaning.
Been thinking about packing my regular job in to work for myself (fulltime).
Let me know what you think
regards
S
I know someone who earned nearly 30k last year (before tax) but only because he was working really hard to pay off debts and such. It is possible, but being able to earn over that mark is another story. On business work maybe?
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This guy has just asked a question which he may not be aware is a bit of a 'hot spud' on this forum...easy mistake to make.
But my answer to him is simple, that number is achieveable but when you take into consideration as a self employed one man band type chappie...there are so many expenses that eat into that pie that the end result can be very little. Nevermind start-up costs to get going.
So turnover of 30k is achieveable ...am close to that now for year end projection but I know that I will get no where near that once all is finalised and the end of year accounts are submitted.
Cheers
Dave.
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Roger
I am not going to tell someone they can earn £30k a year without explaining the other side of the coin.
The fact is in my area, I just bought a round off a guy £20ks worth of work, that was the best he could grow it after 8 years, he was wfp and had a merc van, in the end he was better off getting a job.
Another guy near me is selling his 20 year old business, turns over £25k, look it up on the w/c rounds for sale site
most of the other guys drive round in old cars, which goes a long way to telling me they do not earn £30k
There are another couple who are happy with £10- £12 an hour turnover, there is one guy who will clean your front windows and cut your front lawn for £5.00.
The other side
I do see the odd window cleaner who clearly turns over a lot more, but the above desriptions are more typical, yes £30k wage can be achieved but it is going to be hard work for a few years to achieve that.
I am not going to say yes £30k wage is achievable without putting things into perspective.
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One advantage of being self-employed is that you can earn the equivalent of £30k pre-tax salary without earning £30k!
A carefully structured business, with good accounting and tax management will allow you to experience the same level of income without actually having to earn £30k.
There are many disadvantages to being self-employed, one of the advantages is that many expenses can be used to offset against the business that you are already having to spend even if you are on a salary.
Not many sole trader WC will earn £30k after taxable expenses, but many do have the equivalent to a £30k salary and work a lot less hours.
Realistically you would only need to 'earn about' £24k as a self-employed trader to have a similar take-home as a £30k salary. This is if you have good accountancy advice and make full use of all allowances.
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sunshine have you been thinking about doing this since january 2004 or have you been part time since then
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One advantage of being self-employed is that you can earn the equivalent of £30k pre-tax salary without earning £30k!
A carefully structured business, with good accounting and tax management will allow you to experience the same level of income without actually having to earn £30k.
There are many disadvantages to being self-employed, one of the advantages is that many expenses can be used to offset against the business that you are already having to spend even if you are on a salary.
Not many sole trader WC will earn £30k after taxable expenses, but many do have the equivalent to a £30k salary and work a lot less hours.
Realistically you would only need to 'earn about' £24k as a self-employed trader to have a similar take-home as a £30k salary. This is if you have good accountancy advice and make full use of all allowances.
alex could you give me good accountancy advice?
ok rog 30k is achievable but your making it sound like its a work in the park which is bad advice, like some have said if thats true why are most i know making no were near that??
you have to try and be different in your approach sunshine there will be hundreds maybe even thousands of window cleaners so why would a customer choose you??
being cheap wont get you earning 30k and nevr will having no expierence so it wil take a long time to get up to speed and get the technique, but on the way you will have people canvassing on your work people cancelling van breaking down and many more.....so dont take it lightly!
Rog cut the physics crap you show off lets explain things simply hey if i wanted to do physics i would of been present at the big bang
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The 30k number for turnover not profit can happen. My situation is I work with my wife 2-3 days a week. The work would be 4-5 average days a week one man and not saying too much but yes aiming at those numbers.
However how often is a one man band going to get 4-5 days a week in? Certainly not every week. Also when you start up you'll end up with a lot of chaff on your books, it can take years to build up to those numbers.
Most wc I know don't even go above 20k turnover.
My point is don't leave the security of a good job to think you can make 30k a year 3 days a week cleaning windows. If your gonna give up a good job to do wc 100% be prepared for some very hard work.
Simon.
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I personally think that if you are business minded and put enough effort into it, then yes £30K pre-tax is easily possible. Probably not in your first year of trading though,.. but it's a target you should have no problem reaching in your 2nd year even if you are just a one man band.
Beware though of the costs of setting up and running a business. What money is coming in may seem a lot at the start,.. but it really isn't all yours!
Tax and eventually VAT with take a big chunk, as will clothing, equipment, consumables, vehicle costs and fuel costs.
35% of everything I earn goes straight to the Government through Tax or Vat etc.
I spend on average €110 per week on various work related items (new poles, resin, workwear, scrims etc) and then there's diesel on top of that too.
My first year in business I was badly organised and not too bothered as I'd just made a profit selling a house. Still I turned over €28k
That year I was surprised when the accountant told me €20K went on running costs (mostly vehicle, fuel and WFP setup)!!
€8k profit in a year sobered me up a bit,.. especially as my savings were almost gone!
Starting out is tougher than it looks at first.
My advice is to get a separate business account straight away. Pay yourself a "wage" out of this account AFTER all other bills are paid. Keep an eye on your goal, and regularly work out how close you are to achieving it, and also work out exactly what your costs are for each week. DON'T spend more than you need to,.. A thermopure unit and brand new van can wait,... for now spend as little as possible and you'll still be able to do the same job.
A huge factor that limits your earning potential is your location. If there are lots of window cleaners locally, or if prices are just generally low, then you will have to be in some way competitive to win work. To get the best possible prices, you have to offer the best possible service. Be regular and reliable, dress smart and adopt your most professional manner,... it all helps!
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I said it before on here, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. There are so many facts that will determin your wage at the end of the year. But in my area Trad full time should earn about 25k, WFP I would expect to be over 30k.
My advice to you would be to forget 30k for a moment and ask yourself, what if its only 15k, is it still going to work out.
Tighen your purse strings like your going to earn only 15k pre tax and expenses, and work to targets that will get you 30k.
I think if you are doing two jobs and are thinking about the WC full time, then you already know its suited for you, you just have to make the leap, so good luck mate
mind let us know how things are going
gerard ;D
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Hello all
Want to know if you think it would be possible to earn £30k a year window cleaning.
Been thinking about packing my regular job in to work for myself (fulltime).
Let me know what you think
regards
S
well ignoring all the posts in this thread for 1 min
you will not walk out of a job and earn 30 K ( after tax ) straight away, this seems to have been forgotten, its not a case of walking around the street ( or paying some1 to ) knocking doors and getting work, it takes a LONG time ( though you will have people on here who will tell you, they thought big, brought a ionics system and started earning 50 K straight away ::) you will learn to spot the billy liar posts )
your not going to walk out of a 30 K a year job into window cleaning and earn the same money the next month
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but after years of hard graft not straight away.
Im glad you said that.
Me Im still struggling to put together something approaching 11K ;D
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I got £40 and a bag of apples today :(
i had a sack full of green beans today..... must think i need my greens.
Show off ;D
I hope all the folks being made redundant, customers on minimum wage, and all the immigrants ain't reading these "course you can earn 30k" posts ::)
Sometimes you just have to keep things to yourselves, although the braggers always want their say :(
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wot part of west mids you from m8. poope weather again ay???
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25 houses per day @ £8 is £200 p/d x the days you work.
how long it will take to build up that round is another matter, could be months or more likely years.
take off your start up costs.
It could be a long hard road to reach your target of 30K but, yes achievable.
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I would agree with a lot of the posts on here - your first year will be eye wateringly bad if you go down the water fed pole route without a doubt. My first year was pretty good considering i didn't inherit a round or buy a single job, but at the end of the year it's your net profit you need to look at and mine was 14k! My gross was reasonable but the investment costs were huge compared to a traditional cleaner. Matts post was spot on, you will be extremely unlikely to gain work and still get to 30k your jobs will come in all over the place at different or maybe the same locations but at different times. It takes ages for all the jobs to slot into the correct order to give a compact round. Some days you might get close to £200 others you will be lucky to hit £50.
So given time yes it's achievable if you are in the right area.
BUT if your very canny and can pick up big commercial jobs you might get there quicker.
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First I would like to point out that if a guy wants to earn £400 a week, and does this regularly, he achieves his goal, he's an achiever,it's all relative.
I could turn over £30k, I have the work but to get round it all on time I would need to work 6 days a week.
When you are starting out building your business, you may think it helps to have a new van and nice logo, You will pick up work quicker that way.
I have worked out the sums over the years and have come to the conclusion that a new van can't be justified on the grounds of costs. I work out of an M reg escort van that cost me £350 to buy, OK it cost me £120 to get through the last M.O.T, and may cost the same next year, spares are easily available from any scrap yard and There's a semi retired guy who does any work that needs to be done.
The cost of running that van is negligible compared to having a new one, I have a tow bar on the car and a trailer I can use if the van ever breaks down. The money saved on costs goes into my pocket.
It makes no difference at all to my customers what I drive.
A guy earning 25k can be a lot better off than one earning 30k if he can keep his costs down.
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Your first year starting up you will make a lot of mistakes. You'll pick up all the dumped customers that other window cleaners don't want. You might have a lot of bad paying customers and get taken advantage of by your customers left, right and centre. Takes years to build up a good customer base and reputation through hard work, determination and perserverance. A good round is not achievable in your first couple of years without a thick skin and good pricing. Also, you'll be very slow working when you first start. To earn a decent wage, you need a good business mind, good pricing, good reputation and to be reliable and regular.
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I clean a commercial van sales showroom which does a roaring trade selling three year old vans. He, (the owner) can't understand why tradesmen insists on buying brand new vans because of the very high depreciation values in the first three years. Value for money, it makes sense to get a really good deal on a 2 or 3 year old van with a full service history.
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I think that Roger has been drinking, his sentences meaning and spelling were all mixed up.The point the posters were making is that they don't want to encourage anyone who thinks of this as easy money. Signal noise ratio? What's that something to do with radios? Roger is seriously deluded if he thinks we are all on here to help each other.
I come on here to be competitive and to try and nick other peoples ideas.
Ref 30k, from a standing start the answer is no. Canvass weekends, clean sat morns, or if you are on shifts as time allows. When you can earn £80 a day, come back and we will give you more advice.
wayne agree. OMG just read dai's take, don't start me off...
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;D Dai makes perfect sense to me.
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Dai your talking toilet.
thats harsh nige
i agree with what dai says
my set up owes me nowt
i do it all on thecheap
works for me mate :)
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all this expenses i think is a load of crap, in my eyes window cleaning is a business that dosnt have much expenses, well it hasnt for me in over ten years... its only this year i have spent more (freedom trolley) than normal but i estimate 5% of my income is expenses at the most...
window cleaning can almost be expense free...
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all this expenses i think is a load of crap, in my eyes window cleaning is a business that dosnt have much expenses, well it hasnt for me in over ten years... its only this year i have spent more (freedom trolley) than normal but i estimate 5% of my income is expenses at the most...
window cleaning can almost be expense free...
You are having a laugh I hope.
I wish I only had 5% expense, trad I can see it wfp nope
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like i said i have a trolley, my water is that low 043 in nearly 5 months my reading after RO is 002 and not budging so costs me nothing... im getting a van and van mount sometime very soon but what im saying is for somebody starting out there is no need to scare them off by telling them expenses are massive when they absolutely dont have too be...
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like i said i have a trolley, my water is that low 043 in nearly 5 months my reading after RO is 002 and not budging so costs me nothing... im getting a van and van mount sometime very soon but what im saying is for somebody starting out there is no need to scare them off by telling them expenses are massive when they absolutely dont have too be...
they are not massive I agree it relation to what can be earnt. But I will say that wfp is not in anyway as easy as soon will make out not is it as cheap as some make out.
Water is cheap, everything else is not that you need and you need to maintain Kris ;)
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all this expenses i think is a load of crap, in my eyes window cleaning is a business that dosnt have much expenses, well it hasnt for me in over ten years... its only this year i have spent more (freedom trolley) than normal but i estimate 5% of my income is expenses at the most...
window cleaning can almost be expense free...
You are having a laugh I hope.
I wish I only had 5% expense, trad I can see it wfp nope
Ditto,.. my expenses are huge!
Fuel, insurance, vehicle repairs and road tax are the biggest,
then there's resin, brushes, poles, rubbers & scrims, more fuel, VAT, stationary, postage stamps, website hosting, uniform, rain gear, sealskins gloves,.... more fuel,...
I know I do spend more than I need some weeks (I do like my wfp gadgets!),.. but even when I'm keeping an eye on costs, it is a fair chunk of my days wage that's "gone" before even the wife gets her hands on it!
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all this expenses i think is a load of crap, in my eyes window cleaning is a business that dosnt have much expenses, well it hasnt for me in over ten years... its only this year i have spent more (freedom trolley) than normal but i estimate 5% of my income is expenses at the most...
window cleaning can almost be expense free...
not allot of expenses yes, but 'can be expense free', have you been smoking something not strickly legal.
gerard :D
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like i said i have a trolley, my water is that low 043 in nearly 5 months my reading after RO is 002 and not budging so costs me nothing... im getting a van and van mount sometime very soon but what im saying is for somebody starting out there is no need to scare them off by telling them expenses are massive when they absolutely dont have too be...
they are not massive I agree it relation to what can be earnt. But I will say that wfp is not in anyway as easy as soon will make out not is it as cheap as some make out.
Water is cheap, everything else is not that you need and you need to maintain Kris ;)
im not saying totally expense free but my expensise are very low, not as low as when i was trad but still very low... maybe its because im new to wfp and not experienced my first system malfunction (fingers crossed it dosnt happen some time soon) i do think though when i get my van and mount costs will increase significantly...
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like i said i have a trolley, my water is that low 043 in nearly 5 months my reading after RO is 002 and not budging so costs me nothing... im getting a van and van mount sometime very soon but what im saying is for somebody starting out there is no need to scare them off by telling them expenses are massive when they absolutely dont have too be...
they are not massive I agree it relation to what can be earnt. But I will say that wfp is not in anyway as easy as soon will make out not is it as cheap as some make out.
Water is cheap, everything else is not that you need and you need to maintain Kris ;)
im not saying totally expense free but my expensise are very low, not as low as when i was trad but still very low... maybe its because im new to wfp and not experienced my first system malfunction (fingers crossed it dosnt happen some time soon) i do think though when i get my van and mount costs will increase significantly...
Kris, please dont think badly from what I have said I would not be with out the van mount, but it really does cost money but at the same time you canearn more it just depends on your business model
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i dont think badly of what you say mate, the thing is the more expense i have to pay the more money i have to make to pay for it like you said...
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Over heads on a £50k turnover
Vehicle payments or depreciation £4k I'll give you that one. I pay £4k.
Fuel, tax, insurance , repairs £4-£5k Eh?! £1500 max surely?
equipment £2k- £3k How do you manage that?! Think I spent about £200 last year.
advertising , envelopes , computer £2k ???
Telephone £300 Free calls at £40 a quarter including personal use. ;D
Where do you get those figures from Dave? ;D
I don't dispute you spend that much (although god knows how), but that's not typical of an average window cleaner on here. ??? ;D
Sounds like you give all your money away!
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all this expenses i think is a load of crap, in my eyes window cleaning is a business that dosnt have much expenses, well it hasnt for me in over ten years... its only this year i have spent more (freedom trolley) than normal but i estimate 5% of my income is expenses at the most...
window cleaning can almost be expense free...
See?
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Over heads on a £50k turnover
Vehicle payments or depreciation £4k I'll give you that one. I pay £4k.
Fuel, tax, insurance , repairs £4-£5k Eh?! £1500 max surely?
equipment £2k- £3k How do you manage that?! Think I spent about £200 last year.
advertising , envelopes , computer £2k ???
Telephone £300 Free calls at £40 a quarter including personal use. ;D
Where do you get those figures from Dave? ;D
I don't dispute you spend that much (although god knows how), but that's not typical of an average window cleaner on here. ??? ;D
He is not just a window cleaner hes a window cleaning company, I agree with most of the things put on that list.
in the last 2 weeks I have done over 500 mins on mobile business use, and christ knows the amount of mins on phone I pay alot more than £40 a month for landline phone, not including the 0800 number and mobile bill, the list really does go on and on
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Why do you need to phone people to clean windows then? ???
If people want me, they phone me.
I spend £15-20 a year on my mobile.
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Why do you need to phone people to clean windows then? ???
If people want me, they phone me.
I spend £15-20 a year on my mobile.
Marketing, in calls and replies, customers calling ect
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You want to get free landline calls like me then.
Doesn't cost me a penny to phone back missed customer calls. ;)
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You want to get free landline calls like me then.
Doesn't cost me a penny to phone back missed customer calls. ;)
I have that dude, I guess I have to call and speak to a lot more people than you, I wish I didnt but thats life ;)
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only realy spend money on listening to voice mail messages, but its not much maybe about £50/60 a year if I add it up.
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Hello all
Want to know if you think it would be possible to earn £30k a year window cleaning.
Been thinking about packing my regular job in to work for myself (fulltime).
Let me know what you think
regards
S
Yes you can, but don't expect too much too soon. It can take a number of years to build up that amount of work (though some do it more quickly). I suggest you start window cleaning part-time at first in addition to your main work and see how you get along. W/Cing is not to everyone's taste and I reckon there are more who stop it than continue. If you do decide to invest in WFP equipment, there are a number of companies that do it. Don't tie yourself in with just one. The best companies to deal with are not necessarily the ones who market their businesses the best.
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Alan
Over heads on a £50k turnover
Vehicle payments or depreciation £4k
Fuel, tax, insurance , repairs £4-£5k
equipment £2k- £3k
advertising , envelopes , computer £2k
Insurance , subscription etc £500 ?
Telephone £300
use of home as office £520
protective clothing £100
Laundry £100
Accountant £400
Training / trade shows ?
Loan interest and charges ?
Employee costs ? £5k ( Most people dont take £50k on there own)
Bad debts ?
Just a guess really,
but there is more to it than most people think
Depreciation - second hand van, closer to 1.5k per year
Fuel - 2k
Insurance + tax - 1k
Equipment - buy a decent ro and you're looking at closer to £300 a year including resin - the fact that you choose to di only, well thats up to you.
advertising etc - we don't need to, £0
stationary - £100
insurance - £500 granted
telephone - you got a seperate line? disregarded as most use their own mobile which they would be paying for anyway.
protective clothing, laundry - get a grip, those are living costs, and whoever bought protective clothing to clean windows - a hi-vis vest £3
accountant - do your own if you are that bothered, not hard to do.
training, trade shows - if you really want but a waste of time and money.
Employee costs - the question was to turn over £30k not £50k so I'm disregarding this one as well.
ave the bottom line is can a sole trader make £30k a year pre-tax, the answer is yes. As I have already explained it is not that hard. As for costs, again, that isn't what they guy was asking. Before I employed I earned approx £40k a year on my own, I still had 4 weeks a year holiday too, sensible pricing and a determined work ethos is how I did it and thats up here in Scotland, not like some parts of England where it seems no one will clean a 3 bed semi for less than £15.
Sorry to go on but I have done it myself, easily.
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I reckon that starting from scratch and without buying work, you'd be looking at an absolute minimum of two years before you're clearing 30k.
you would need to be VERY switched on, live and breathe window cleaning with a passion and work seriously hard cleaning, advertising, leafleting/canvassing , collecting, improving equipment etc and be totally dedicated to achieve this.
it might take some 5 years, some 10 years, and some may never achieve it.
most probably don't want to as they're happy to earn less than 30k profit and still have a life.
good luck, but a cakewalk it ain't!
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I reckon that starting from scratch and without buying work, you'd be looking at an absolute minimum of two years before you're clearing 30k.
you would need to be VERY switched on, live and breathe window cleaning with a passion and work seriously hard cleaning, advertising, leafleting/canvassing , collecting, improving equipment etc and be totally dedicated to achieve this.
it might take some 5 years, some 10 years, and some may never achieve it.
most probably don't want to as they're happy to earn less than 30k profit and still have a life.
good luck, but a cakewalk it ain't!
I think buying work would be a good way to start just so you have go some work to get going, i almost nearly packed in when i started as i had bits of rounds badly priced here there and everywhere and thankfully a friend semi retired and sold me a good round which gave me a foundation to work on, i think if i were starting over and didnt know where to buy, or find a round id go with a canvassing company as you set the prices and area etc, and its loads cheaper than buying just 2 x the value! Id get them to find a couple of days work a week then start leafleting and knocking on my days off, unless you could afford for them to just build your whole round?
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Ian, why do you put your phone number on nearly every post? Doesn't seem five minutes ago you were asking where to get your van system from? Don't you speak to your wife any more?
Just Curious :o
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It is very possible to reach the 30k mark in two years...without canvassing and using only word of mouth and leaflets (20k) I am very close to the 30k(pre-tax) mark based on year end projections using George.
Looking at our figures there is plenty of scope of work more hours thoughout the year...it's about thinking and watching your business grown in every way and watching every figure...I can tell you many litres I use every day, complete average for my business...if you do not know what your business is doing how can you make changes in an effective manner...yes we are window cleaners but how many are just employees?
We have been going 110 weeks now...as with any business it is about plugging away and pushing yourself in so many ways.
Granted we know turnover and our take home wage are worlds apart but pre-tax 30k...in my humble opinion is very obtainable...yes there are very many variables to obtaining the 30k but it can be done. No matter where in the country you are...I believe that if you work hard enough, apply yourself this number will come.
Cheers
Dave.
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Alan
Ok you found cheeper Expenses, doesnt mean mine is wrong.
My overheads brought me more respect and a much increase turnover,
Clothing with your name on is allowable.
Do i want a second hand van? no
Telephone ? I have about 20 business calls a day, always have done.
Advertising has heped my business enormously, as well as attending trade shows and training courses, these are a fundamental part of any business.
As for the rest of the expenses, I reckon most people here with a £50k turnover will recognise those expenses.
Yes you can do it on the cheap, but the difference in expense to turnover ratio, will grow as your business grows.
Reckon up your expenses and they still come to a fair amount.
As for employee costs, no matter what i dont reckon many one man bands turnover £40k so employee costs would be an expense.
I have just dragged out one of my old profit & Loss accounts and it shows £40,121 turnover, Net profit for year before depreciation £25,398, , Employee costs were £6,886
If I remember rightly there is no way i could of done that turnover without employee help,
These are actual figures not guesstimats.
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Over heads on a £50k turnover
Vehicle payments or depreciation £4k I'll give you that one. I pay £4k.
Fuel, tax, insurance , repairs £4-£5k Eh?! £1500 max surely?
equipment £2k- £3k How do you manage that?! Think I spent about £200 last year.
advertising , envelopes , computer £2k ???
Telephone £300 Free calls at £40 a quarter including personal use. ;D
Where do you get those figures from Dave? ;D
I don't dispute you spend that much (although god knows how), but that's not typical of an average window cleaner on here. ??? ;D
Sounds like you give all your money away!
Rog
ok you agree with the top one,
you say you only have £1500 in motoring expenses, that is only £30 a week to cover your tax insurance and fuel and repairs, i have just had a bill for a service, 2 tyres and a wing miiror for over £500 alone.
Equipment, i spent at least £2k on poles , a60ft extel , a supalite and an slx, so my figure was a bit conservative there is over £2k resin was about £1k , thats without all , the other stuff you need.
Advertising my yellow pages and yell.com was £2k so that figure was conservative.
I only spend for success, nothing more nothing less
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alan just beacause your epenses are less doesnt mean we all have the same, marketing is essential to expand FACT.
stationary £100 could spend that on some business cards, then you have paper ink stamps and lots more.
i thinkyou couldprob look at expenditure of between 40% and 60% with a full time employee depending on how much you pay your employee your quality of work and if you have any start up debts
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If thats how much you guys spend on advertising etc then fine - thats entirely up to yourself.
My approach to business is slightly different. With 2 vans and 4 men (including me) annual turnover is in excess of £110k, I have my son and 2 guys to pay out of that figure along with all other expenses. I don't spend money on advertising, other than uniforms and sign writing etc. I have no need to - if I want to take the world on then yes I would spend money on advertising but I just don't need to.
Whats wrong with a second hand van Dave? Our vans are kept immaculate and well serviced and are every bit as good to us as a new van.
Spending for success is essential I agree but it sounds to me like overkill (apart from the poles). 20 calls a day? Dave, how do fit them all in?? assuming you got half of them, thats 10 new jobs a day - probably commercial - you'd need to be taking on 1 new member of staff every day at that rate.
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Over heads on a £50k turnover
Vehicle payments or depreciation £4k I'll give you that one. I pay £4k.
Fuel, tax, insurance , repairs £4-£5k Eh?! £1500 max surely?
equipment £2k- £3k How do you manage that?! Think I spent about £200 last year.
advertising , envelopes , computer £2k ???
Telephone £300 Free calls at £40 a quarter including personal use. ;D
Where do you get those figures from Dave? ;D
I don't dispute you spend that much (although god knows how), but that's not typical of an average window cleaner on here. ??? ;D
Sounds like you give all your money away!
Rog
ok you agree with the top one,
you say you only have £1500 in motoring expenses, that is only £30 a week to cover your tax insurance and fuel and repairs, i have just had a bill for a service, 2 tyres and a wing miiror for over £500 alone.
Equipment, i spent at least £2k on poles , a60ft extel , a supalite and an slx, so my figure was a bit conservative there is over £2k resin was about £1k , thats without all , the other stuff you need.
Advertising my yellow pages and yell.com was £2k so that figure was conservative.
I only spend for success, nothing more nothing less
My insurance just for my car is £2500 a year before tax, mot, service, repairs etc!!
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I have just dragged out one of my old profit & Loss accounts and it shows £40,121 turnover, Net profit for year before depreciation £25,398, , Employee costs were £6,886
Thats all your were paying in wages?? Or is that just the cost exclusive of wages?
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Alan
With a £110 turnover and 4 men to support , that is tough going, i would be very worried on them figures and would want to put the prices up.
This Also contradicts what you said earlier is a £30k wage achievable, on them figures i think just about.
£110k turnover
£20k must be vat
so you are down to £90k
wages must be £45 k
expenses another £15k
So that gives you £30k profit.
Also I didnt say there was anything wrong with a second hand van, I drive a new one the staff drive old ones.
If i was a one man band i would want a brand new one.
20 calls a day, are not all quotes
It just seems that you want to pick on every point i say, so i will bow out of this one, and leave everyone to make up there own minds.
Obviously I am doing something wrong even though my turnover to man ratio is double yours.
It just seems that you want to pick on every point i say, so i will bow out of this one, and leave everyone to make up there own minds.
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Sean
Yes that was my full employee cost for that year, including employer Ni contributions
Dave
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Sean
Yes that was my full employee cost for that year, including employer Ni contributions
Dave
So it was only part time or something, because im looking to employ no later than this time next year but im struggling to work it all out because its easy to do sums on paper but its difficult to know if they are practical....ie supposing a employee will do £200 a day 5 days a week? Means having very good work in abundance and them working very hard for 7 hours, then what will they want in wages so they wont think of doing it themselves?? 40%?? Then theres vat, 40% tax etc, almost works out at alot of work looking after someone and paying their wages for little return?? Only other way is to reduce wage but then you will struggle to get someone decent.....its all a bit of a head ache aint it? But then its the only way to get off the bottom rung of being a sole trader!
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Sean
Dont worry if they leave to work for themselves, if they are going to do it, they will do it.
My advice is to start with a part timer, train them up put them on a low wage to start, then increase it as they improve.
To expect £200 a day from an employee is a tall order at first, I would just look at them to make your life easier, rather than profit in the beginning.
When you have enough work, put them full time or find someone else, part timers only last a year or 2 , there are plenty out there who are essentially lazy and ar happy with part time.
Just take one step at a time and cross each hurdle as it arrises
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Sean
Dont worry if they leave to work for themselves, if they are going to do it, they will do it.
My advice is to start with a part timer, train them up put them on a low wage to start, then increase it as they improve.
To expect £200 a day from an employee is a tall order at first, I would just look at them to make your life easier, rather than profit in the beginning.
When you have enough work, put them full time or find someone else, part timers only last a year or 2 , there are plenty out there who are essentially lazy and ar happy with part time.
Just take one step at a time and cross each hurdle as it arrises
You reckon its possible out of an employee who is experienced and paid well on good work though?
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If you have the right work for them, which takes time to find.
You have to ask can you turnover £200 a day evey day and keep motivated, if you cant do, then how can you expect your staff to do it.
Dont forget the down time off the employees, ie holidays, sickness and bad weather.
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If you have the right work for them, which takes time to find.
You have to ask can you turnover £200 a day evey day and keep motivated, if you cant do, then how can you expect your staff to do it.
Dont forget the down time off the employees, ie holidays, sickness and bad weather.
Well i dont like saying what i can and cant do but i wouldnt ask someone to do what i cant put it that way, but i only do 3-4 days and i work long and hard and am young :) thats why i say would staff do it, but i am planning on getting a canvasser from jan to start finding good work so i can take someone on later in the year so i figure work priced at £30 so they can do it, and would pay very well to keep incentivized but like i say its all on paper, so i wondered what experience those that had already been there had!?? Do you know any averages what staff working alone on wfp are doing??? On 90% residential
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Its hard to say as all residential is different.
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One advantage of being self-employed is that you can earn the equivalent of £30k pre-tax salary without earning £30k!
A carefully structured business, with good accounting and tax management will allow you to experience the same level of income without actually having to earn £30k.
There are many disadvantages to being self-employed, one of the advantages is that many expenses can be used to offset against the business that you are already having to spend even if you are on a salary.
Not many sole trader WC will earn £30k after taxable expenses, but many do have the equivalent to a £30k salary and work a lot less hours.
Realistically you would only need to 'earn about' £24k as a self-employed trader to have a similar take-home as a £30k salary. This is if you have good accountancy advice and make full use of all allowances.
Agree with this post. Following the advise above, there are far more benefits to being self employed than employed. ;)
Tony
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Its hard to say as all residential is different.
If say you could average 25-30, would an employee do the same??
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sean i will give you a tip, your still young so take your time always make sure your prepeared b4 you take on the next level, if you jump into employing without having the cashflow it could be a bad move.
I my self am only young at29 iv been running my business 3 years and have always tried to employ before i was ready(without haveing the work to employ full time) so i invetsed in another window cleaning business which gave me enough to pay an employees wages.
i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future !!!! ;)
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sean i will give you a tip, your still young so take your time always make sure your prepeared b4 you take on the next level, if you jump into employing without having the cashflow it could be a bad move.
I my self am only young at29 iv been running my business 3 years and have always tried to employ before i was ready(without haveing the work to employ full time) so i invetsed in another window cleaning business which gave me enough to pay an employees wages.
i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future !!!! ;)
Good post Ronnie,it is very surprising how much more work you need when 2 of you are WFP.Don`t foget you need far far more than you would if 2 of you were trad there`s a massive difference to bear in mind when thinking about how much work you`ll need,you will easily soon earn enough to pay someones wages but in the beggining if you don`t get him out canvassing or do it yourself he will be sitting around twiddling his thumbs and you don`t want someone getting used to going home at 2.30,start as you mean to go on.
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i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future !!!! ;)
...and being able to expand all the time rather than be limited to what one person can do!
sounds like you have your head screwed on Ronnie! your business thinking is some what like mine ;)
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This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.
The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.
What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.
So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?
I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?
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Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.
So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?
I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?
ut oh...you will start some arguments now ;)
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This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.
The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.
What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.
So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?
I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?
If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.
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So 1k times 46 divided by 52 is £884pw average.
1k times 4 less £1600(Your profit) is £2400 his wages and other business expenses.Assume that this figure give him top bonus earning of £550pw (allowing just £50pw to cover ex'es)
This employee (nwh's notional employee) is a top bloke and worth hanging onto.He would get to take the van home and proabably be even more productive if he worked with a mate on less money.
So in this example taking what NWH said he earns £550 and turns £1000, the turnover to man ratio would be 1.8 times wages.
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If you buy a new van at say £220-£250 a month for him to use + employers nat ins and all the other bits there is still money in it for you,my amount earned is an example i would expect that as a minimum from a competant WFPoler.
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If he was that competent he wouldnt be working for someone else.
Not that this has anything to do with the orignal post.
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There`s plenty of people out there Matt that don`t want all the hassel,they just want to turn up and do there job and go home.You can get them but you have to pay above what they`ll get elsewhere working for someone else,if there on £2400 a month + bonuses they will turn up if you pay them £300 a week they won`t.
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I know what you're saying, and undoubtedly there are people like that out there, the trick is finding them, Id imagine they like rocking horse $h!t. They were when I was on the cards for a company and we needed new staff.
All I know is if I had the knack and drive to produce that kind of output then I wouldnt be doing it whilst lining someone elses pocket.
I think people that can do that kind of work probably dont stay on the cards for that long.
btw Nigel, what did you think of the new Gardiners dual trim?
Matt
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There`s plenty of people out there Matt that don`t want all the hassel,they just want to turn up and do there job and go home.You can get them but you have to pay above what they`ll get elsewhere working for someone else,if there on £2400 a month + bonuses they will turn up if you pay them £300 a week they won`t.
Do you employ NWH ???
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There`s plenty of people out there Matt that don`t want all the hassel,they just want to turn up and do there job and go home.You can get them but you have to pay above what they`ll get elsewhere working for someone else,if there on £2400 a month + bonuses they will turn up if you pay them £300 a week they won`t.
Do you employ NWH ???
I used to employ 1 for 8 tears and 2 for 3 years,i now have a cleaning side aswell which i employ 2 part time.I will look to employ again and could now if i wanted on my own work but at the moment i`m doing more than enough on my own and am in the middle of moving.
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I also sub work aswell thank`s.
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This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.
The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.
What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.
So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?
I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?
If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.
200 x 5 days x 4 weekly = 4000 quid
take of his 2400
take of 12.5% for employers national insurance £300
employers insurance £50
van and setup lease 220
diesel a very reserved price at 200
van insurance say 30 - 50 a month
van tax say 15 a month
(not even counting repairs to system and wear and tear on van)
your costs will come in at a minumum of £3215 giving you a minimum profit of £785
i think you need to re work your sums NWH as i wouldn't even entertain a profit margin like that for 1 full van!!
where did you get your profit margin of 1600 - 1800?????
it sounds like you've never employed before given them figures?
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this thread is a load of nonsense......it is easily acheavable!!!! .... im off to bed......enjoy youre siilly banter :D
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yes it is,everyone knows it.
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This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.
The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.
What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.
So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?
I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?
If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.
200 x 5 days x 4 weekly = 4000 quid
take of his 2400
take of 12.5% for employers national insurance £300
employers insurance £50
van and setup lease 220
diesel a very reserved price at 200
van insurance say 30 - 50 a month
van tax say 15 a month
(not even counting repairs to system and wear and tear on van)
your costs will come in at a minumum of £3215 giving you a minimum profit of £785
i think you need to re work your sums NWH as i wouldn't even entertain a profit margin like that for 1 full van!!
where did you get your profit margin of 1600 - 1800?????
it sounds like you've never employed before given them figures?
I have and in the end it didn`t work,i didn`t pay them enough.I was stating the minimum you`ll need to earn.
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sean i will give you a tip, your still young so take your time always make sure your prepeared b4 you take on the next level, if you jump into employing without having the cashflow it could be a bad move.
I my self am only young at29 iv been running my business 3 years and have always tried to employ before i was ready(without haveing the work to employ full time) so i invetsed in another window cleaning business which gave me enough to pay an employees wages.
i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future !!!! ;)
Im not looking to start anyone till around august next year when i will have the work i want for myself, and the money to set up another van and wfp and buy enough for a part time employee, then build from there, and find someone hopefully who is willing to go full time, but i know it wont work out straight away and will have difficulties but you got to have goals and a plan, and they are mine for long term...for now im still building my own round as i still wanna work, id be bored otherwise, but i only wanna do an easy 3-4 days and a day or 2 quoting etc, wife will do books, and admin :) That is the plan anyway!
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i pay my lad 270 a week its not the best wage but he works abot 30 hours all though its based on 36 hour
not the best wage but more than most window cleaners round here, i will review this after he has lasted 3 months he thinks this is fair and so do i.
if you start paying some one 40 or 50 % you may as well be working on your own all though i supose if yu had 8 working for you it would be a different story.
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i pay my lad 270 a week its not the best wage but he works abot 30 hours all though its based on 36 hour
not the best wage but more than most window cleaners round here, i will review this after he has lasted 3 months he thinks this is fair and so do i.
if you start paying some one 40 or 50 % you may as well be working on your own all though i supose if yu had 8 working for you it would be a different story.
In the south you simply could not live on that kind of money end of story,if you were to offer that kind of money down here you either not get any takers or you would get 20 year olds not turning up wasting your time.You have to pay someone enough to live at least if you want them longterm,i`m talking about someone being out on there own here and in effect running part of the business for you.For someone to fit this role i don`t think 20k a year + bonus is over the top,in the south you would have to pay this kind of money.
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This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.
The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.
What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.
So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?
I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?
If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.
200 x 5 days x 4 weekly = 4000 quid
take of his 2400
take of 12.5% for employers national insurance £300
employers insurance £50
van and setup lease 220
diesel a very reserved price at 200
van insurance say 30 - 50 a month
van tax say 15 a month
(not even counting repairs to system and wear and tear on van)
your costs will come in at a minumum of £3215 giving you a minimum profit of £785
i think you need to re work your sums NWH as i wouldn't even entertain a profit margin like that for 1 full van!!
where did you get your profit margin of 1600 - 1800?????
it sounds like you've never employed before given them figures?
I have and in the end it didn`t work,i didn`t pay them enough.I was stating the minimum you`ll need to earn.
but where is the £1600 - £1800 you first talked about? it just doesn't add up! ???
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It was basically an example of what would be expected in the south,roughly speaking you would look to get back what your paying out in wages,in other areas it would vary considerably i know.
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nwh he works with me, if the time come were he worked on is own then i would prob pay around 18,000 but i would say the average wage was about 13000 and i know many who earn this and leave with reasonable comfort(within there means).
Your sums make it not worth employing!
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Dave
That easily equates to £1000 per man per week not including holidays etc!! you must be charging top whack.
Also 110k turnover - I have 3 other men to pay - 2 @ £18k = £36k + 1 @ £25k = £51K
Sorry I failed to mention turnover was +VAT, therefore the VAT figure is irrelevant here.
So the figure is actually £110k +VAT
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It was basically an example of what would be expected in the south,roughly speaking you would look to get back what your paying out in wages,in other areas it would vary considerably i know.
i'm even more confused now! what is expected? roughly £800 on your part or £2400 on his part per month. if you would of stacked the earnings over £300 a day then it is getting closer to what is expected surely? even then its still not as healthy as it could be. in the south (i take it were talking london (ish) prices. i would say £300 per day would be bare minimum surely????
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For someone to fit this role i don`t think 20k a year + bonus is over the top,in the south you would have to pay this kind of money.
To pay someone that figure they'd have to be turning over £35K+ to make it worth it, and I don't think any employee is going to do that. More like £15K.
Hell, I can't get anywhere near that figure and I've been doing it 11 years.
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We've all tried to help squeaks but as he thinks we talk rubbish it's a very hard sell.If he'd just relax his prejudices about always knowing better, and people like me inventing hugely inflated earnings, he might realise finally quite how much he misses out on opportunities.
Life's over in a blink, don't let it pass you by, at the very least earn a few bob.
I'm still interested in these employee costs to turnover ratios.These must be universal for any business and there must be info about this.From figures given a ratio of two would be good, but hard to achieve on only one employee.
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This forum is brilliant! These posts make me laugh for ages. One guy comes on with a simple question asking if it's possible to earn £30. Then a few jokey answers turn up and then the figures start to climb (as always). NWH insists an employee should be making £1000 and above easily per week! Brilliant! To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!
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after reading 6 pages on this subject there is only one thing not said no matter how much you earn you still end up with no money at end of week ;D ;D
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To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!
Yes yes yes!!! ;D ;D ;D soo funny.
Just left another thread of that irk,
A truly excellent review of a product with indepth knowledge and well argued reasoning. If those two teapots sanity and WCE had ever got their farcical magazine idea off the ground
Now doesnt that sentence just overflow with irony!! ;D
A truly excellent review of a a magazine, illustrating his indepth knowledge and argue reasoning :D :D
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It must be possible to get an employee to do £1000 a week, if you find someone who can do the job and is a hard worker, the right work, and the right wage - it would soon come.....Then it would be easy to pay them 20, 000 a year, about 430 a week based on a %of work done, alot of "good jobs" up here in North pay no more that, as ronnie said - average is 13-14000....i think anyone who is negative about it obviously hasnt earned it themselves because they dont work long enough hours etc, but it must be possible with a bit of hard work & the right person, and if it was someone you worked for you would have to do it, but theres only one way to put into practice and find out i suppose!
Bring on the idea bashers :)
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This forum is brilliant! These posts make me laugh for ages. One guy comes on with a simple question asking if it's possible to earn £30. Then a few jokey answers turn up and then the figures start to climb (as always). NWH insists an employee should be making £1000 and above easily per week! Brilliant! To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!
Well said that man
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Like i said a while ago dave, when you take a step back & look at some posts from a different angle this forum has to be the best FREE entertainment on the web!! Especially when you have a good memory like me & can see over-enthusiastic minds constantly contradict themselves! It's most entertaining when people don't realise they are being laughed at & NOT with!! :D :D :D :D :D
We could go on & name more, but hey, who wants to fall out, i'd much rather chuckle! 8)
Light Entertainment Ltd
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if you take £15 per hour and work 9 hours a day for 6 days thats, £810. You could do that trad easy enough, if your jobs are priced properly and you get out hail rain or shine(ok maybe not hail), then do your round WFP and it should be possible yeah. But you will only have one day off a week and work long hours but yeah, if you are a hard worker out the hours in plan it carefully anything is possible.
gerard ;D
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if you take £15 per hour and work 9 hours a day for 6 days thats, £810. You could do that trad easy enough, if your jobs are priced properly and you get out hail rain or shine(ok maybe not hail), then do your round WFP and it should be possible yeah. But you will only have one day off a week and work long hours but yeah, if you are a hard worker out the hours in plan it carefully anything is possible.
gerard ;D
I dont wanna sound like the braggers on here but i always do more than 15 usually 20+ although i prob dont average much more than 22-23, but i also work as long as i can 8+ hours, so i feel 1000 is achievable, i dont have the work to do it all month but i have put both rounds in one week and done it + on my own many times, and that is trad too- still to change alot of work over as it have been putting it off so as to keep up with work in the bad weather..so when im trad surely i will be at least 25% better off and can do same amount in shorter days- i hope!
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A grand a week trad? :o
How old are you sean?
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after reading 6 pages on this subject there is only one thing not said no matter how much you earn you still end up with no money at end of week ;D ;D
Never a truer word spoken!!
:)
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This forum is brilliant! These posts make me laugh for ages. One guy comes on with a simple question asking if it's possible to earn £30. Then a few jokey answers turn up and then the figures start to climb (as always). NWH insists an employee should be making £1000 and above easily per week! Brilliant! To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!
Please leave me out of this ;)
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wow! this has been a lively thread, it's amazing how weekends (and perhaps a few beers) changes this forum.
to all you employers, do you think that you're better off now bearing EVERYTHING in mind (increased hassle, expense, paperwork etc) than you would have been if you had just carried on on your own, refining your round.
i'm now in the lucky position where I have plenty of good priced work on my books. this means that I can quote more expensive for any new work as I don't NEED more work.
if I was employing, I would have to qoute cheaper as I would be worried about retaning enough work to keep my employee(s) busy.
I love going to work and don't have any hassle at all to speak of.
I know my way isn't for everyone, but it suits me at the moment. who knows, I might employee if I need to in the future, but at the moment i'm enjoying refining my round so it's better each month.
i've discussed this with 3 older window cleaners near me who have employed over the years and they reckoned that if they had their time again they would probably stay on their own.
cheers from one happy stress-free window cleaner! :)
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my life is easier now i employ but i dont earn much more at the moment, finding the right employee is the hardist.
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A grand a week trad? :o
How old are you sean?
21
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how can you build a business without employees though, sure you can refine your own round, but your never gonna be able to grow, only so much one man can do!
Many people moan about companies who are coming in and getting big contracts etc - its because they arent a one man band! They are a businesses with well trained employees and the resources to live up to the expectations of a bigger company, on your own you will be limited...
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i'm not sure that I want to grow.
I am sure I want to keep increasing my hourly rate.
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A grand a week trad? :o
How old are you sean?
21
Well, good for you. I never did that kind of money when I was on the ladders, but I didnt start on them til I was 36 :-\
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its acheivable by working 25 hrs per week
£30 ,000 a year is not a huge amount, i dont know what the problem is, i would have thought most wc do this and more without employees, and not working more than 30 hrs a week....
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I've had to delete quite a few meaningless posts, please people, debate the issue and leave the jokes for the relevant section of the forum, a reply with nothing more than a smiley face or a jokey wisecrack only invites more of the same, and this ends out ruining a perfectly good thread.
However...
£30k plus is most certainly possible, even working trad only this is achievable....but you are not going to do this overnight, as has already been said, it takes many months just to build a basic round, then several years to hone that round into a top paying little business.
If working trad then you also need to really hone your skills, WFP certainly gives you the ability to work faster, but to go into it cold you really do need a good business head on your shoulders to understand about pricing your work and costing your business.
I would also agree with many who say that few window cleaners turnover much more than 17/18k per year, those - single traders by the way - who turn over 30k plus are way, way fewer, above 50k for a sole trader and you are getting into pretty rarefied territory.
Even were you to buy an existing, very well paying round it would still take you many months to develop the necessary skills and speed to achieve the potential returns that the round could give you.
But of course it is possible; as I understand it, there is also very good money to be made cleaning ovens....there are businesses now that do this for people, and a up to £60 a pop for a double oven no doubt there is equally vast potential in that kind of business.
A mate of mine has a one and a half ton flatbed truck and pulls in over 80k a year doing light haulage as a one man business...there is money to be made in all walks of life if you have the nous for it.
Ian
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I've had to delete quite a few meaningless posts, please people, debate the issue and leave the jokes for the relevant section of the forum, a reply with nothing more than a smiley face or a jokey wisecrack only invites more of the same, and this ends out ruining a perfectly good thread.
However...
£30k plus is most certainly possible, even working trad only this is achievable....but you are not going to do this overnight, as has already been said, it takes many months just to build a basic round, then several years to hone that round into a top paying little business.
If working trad then you also need to really hone your skills, WFP certainly gives you the ability to work faster, but to go into it cold you really do need a good business head on your shoulders to understand about pricing your work and costing your business.
I would also agree with many who say that few window cleaners turnover much more than 17/18k per year, those - single traders by the way - who turn over 30k plus are way, way fewer, above 50k for a sole trader and you are getting into pretty rarefied territory.
Even were you to buy an existing, very well paying round it would still take you many months to develop the necessary skills and speed to achieve the potential returns that the round could give you.
But of course it is possible; as I understand it, there is also very good money to be made cleaning ovens....there are businesses now that do this for people, and a up to £60 a pop for a double oven no doubt there is equally vast potential in that kind of business.
A mate of mine has a one and a half ton flatbed truck and pulls in over 80k a year doing light haulage as a one man business...there is money to be made in all walks of life if you have the nous for it.
Ian
Thats what i always say, people go on about businesses where you can earn x amount, but to earn alot always takes determination hard work, a bit of intelligence, and a bit of luck, but mainly work and motivation, if you do that you probably will succeed in any line of work, its just finding the one that suits...
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I've had to delete quite a few meaningless posts, please people, debate the issue and leave the jokes for the relevant section of the forum, a reply with nothing more than a smiley face or a jokey wisecrack only invites more of the same, and this ends out ruining a perfectly good thread.
However...
£30k plus is most certainly possible, even working trad only this is achievable....but you are not going to do this overnight, as has already been said, it takes many months just to build a basic round, then several years to hone that round into a top paying little business.
If working trad then you also need to really hone your skills, WFP certainly gives you the ability to work faster, but to go into it cold you really do need a good business head on your shoulders to understand about pricing your work and costing your business.
I would also agree with many who say that few window cleaners turnover much more than 17/18k per year, those - single traders by the way - who turn over 30k plus are way, way fewer, above 50k for a sole trader and you are getting into pretty rarefied territory.
Even were you to buy an existing, very well paying round it would still take you many months to develop the necessary skills and speed to achieve the potential returns that the round could give you.
But of course it is possible; as I understand it, there is also very good money to be made cleaning ovens....there are businesses now that do this for people, and a up to £60 a pop for a double oven no doubt there is equally vast potential in that kind of business.
A mate of mine has a one and a half ton flatbed truck and pulls in over 80k a year doing light haulage as a one man business...there is money to be made in all walks of life if you have the nous for it.
Ian
Although I've been W/Cing since 1991, it's only in the past three years (since switching to WFP, that I've started to consistently get above that 17/18k mark that you mention Ian. I could have exceeded it on a ladder sooner but I had a few years dogged by illness and a few other problems that distracted me from my work - plus I had a lot of work that was priced too low. Now that I've had several years of WFP and have enjoyed several years of good health, I'm really starting to see just what I can achieve. I still feel that the best is yet to come though. I recently lost a big chunk of work that was worth about 5k a year (mostly from one source of subcontracting) but, even allowing for that, I intend to substantially increase my turnover this coming year (starting October 1).
The 17/18k was leavingf me knackered while working off a ladder (having a liver disease didn't help much either) and kept me fairly fully occupied. Using WFP, I turn over a great deal more and still have some spare time (especially while I'm still trying to fill the gap left by former subbying work).
I do intend to reach that rarified territory of 50k but I can't see it happening this coming year.
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A grand a week trad? :o
How old are you sean?
21
Well, good for you. I never did that kind of money when I was on the ladders, but I didnt start on them til I was 36 :-\
Dont get me wrong i am not turning that over week in and out, far from it, i only have about half that a week worth of week anyway at moment but i am building to it, i only wanna do 3 days and have full time employee doing some where near that, but i have done it on a few occasions to catch up or to get ahead before going away, but it is possible, on your own every week though you would probably need someone helping a day or two, but then the money you waste in wages you might as well have a week off!!! If you are hapy with your wage and live on it, you dont need to go mad, i have alot to pay out, newly married, kid on the way, starting out on property ladder,car insurance is sky high, wife doesnt work etc etc, so i need to earn alot to have any kind of life outside of bills and work!!
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sean i like you ambition and attituide i think you have good business sense above your age, im sure you will achieve your goals be patient learn from your mistakes and build on your success.
i found employing part time didnt work has they didnt want to work full time cause they were lazy so they just let me done timt after time thats why i invetsed in new work to have enough for full time.
See iwhat works for you good luck!
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sean i like you ambition and attituide i think you have good business sense above your age, im sure you will achieve your goals be patient learn from your mistakes and build on your success.
i found employing part time didnt work has they didnt want to work full time cause they were lazy so they just let me done timt after time thats why i invetsed in new work to have enough for full time.
See iwhat works for you good luck!
Cheers Ronnie, will keep an eye out for you round Manchester!