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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Feen on September 09, 2008, 05:49:49 pm

Title: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Feen on September 09, 2008, 05:49:49 pm
Do you feel we have a "right" to earn a living cleaning windows? The weather round here has been awful ( as it probably has been wherever you are). Whilst cleaning this morning in fine, dry overcast conditions, I got a "not today, it's going to rain this afternoon." I resisted asking whether it would have been fine to clean them yesterday, if it was going to rain this afternoon. I also resisted pointing out that my kids still eat, my electricity bill still comes etc etc. I didn't clean them and I won't again, but it got me asking myself the question - do we have a right to earn a living? Should we expect loyalty from the customer in return for our loyalty to them? I know how I 'd answer. How about you?
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: LWC on September 09, 2008, 05:54:26 pm
a customer of mine said she didnt mind me cleaning in rain the other day and i was saying that some people have said not today and she said "i woner how those people would cope if they didnt earn any money because it rained"

made me smile
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: john tomkins on September 09, 2008, 05:58:02 pm
I've got the "you better hurry up and get them done before it rains" if only they were all like that.
At the end of the day though, it's their money and you can't tell them they must be done.
Should be immediately dumped all the same.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: kris martin on September 09, 2008, 05:58:58 pm
i think it has to work both ways and if a customer continually tells me not to clean in the rain she is gone, people do have to realise we live in a wet country and we need to feed the kids all year round...   the best one is that were meant to know on a dry day that we shouldnt clean the windows because it might rain tomorow and if it does its our fault...
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: NWH on September 09, 2008, 06:00:19 pm
A good test of your customers loyalty would be to clean in bad weather regardless,they will soon show you with there reaction if there loyal or not.As the weather seems to get worse year on year i have said that i will clean unless it`s absolutley pouring with rain although i don`t more often than not as i get enough done on drier days but it gives me the option saying this to them.A good thing to do is to point these things out on dry sunny days that you will need to carry on cleaning if the weather is bad bills to pay etc,it`s no good unless you prepare them for you turning up no matter what within reason.I think most if not all will understand and the ones that don`t when the weathers good they`ll have to wait won`t they.When you think about it customers are not the sharpest tools are they,i mean what`s the difference between it being fine when you clean and when you get down the road and it starts to pour with rain we`ve all been out working when it`s done that a few times.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: matt on September 09, 2008, 06:04:57 pm
the idea imho is to earn your money on dry days, i allways think that in the winter i will lose 1 out of my 3 days due to rain, if i dont, its a bonus, if i do, then i expect it

im sure a fair % of my customer would accept that if i was desperate to earn the money i would have to work in the rain, i know they wouldnt accept it week in week out

Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: NWH on September 09, 2008, 06:07:52 pm
I agree that you should easily earn enough on dry days.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner on September 09, 2008, 06:11:06 pm
I collect and use rainwater for `trad`and WFP.I live and work
In the industrial north.I know it`s nothing like what it was say
50 years ago before the clean air act came into force.When the
Rain starts I recon it`s about 003ppm.When it belts down it`s
000ppm.What I`m saying is,rainwater is pure really anyways.
Sometimes,not always but it can be an advantage when it rains
When ya cleaning


Lewis  Doubtfire Gleem Clean ( The Blade Runner )
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Sir Squeaky on September 09, 2008, 06:12:47 pm
I agree with that last bit Matt, you can get sympathy here and there, but you can't take the mick. It's their money, they are your bosses.

Of course you don't have a "right" to earn money. ::)

Does a roofer force you have a new roof?
If no-one wants a new roof he doesn't work.
The same applies.

Window cleaning isn't a guaranteed earner every day.
Most self-employed jobs aren't.

Get a shop job.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Oakley Windows on September 09, 2008, 06:13:32 pm
Of course you have a right to earn a living, just like everyone else.

But you'd be naive to think that that might be possible every day of the week throughout the year, bearing in mind the location of the island we live on.

It rains here, sorry, but didnt you know that before you became a window cleaner?

Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Clive McDonald on September 09, 2008, 06:20:09 pm
We don't have a constitution as america does. We do not have the right to drive a car, or to earn a living. We are not born or created equal either.

Luckily the government does allow us to drive work and hold a passport, but these are not rights.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Tim82 on September 09, 2008, 06:27:02 pm
One thing is more sure than death or taxes on this island: It'll probably rain tomorrow! When you first take on a customer you tell them you're gonna come monthly (or similar). That's an agreement. Therefore we have a right to come and clean their windows and earn our money when its raining or not as (with wfp anyway) it doesnt effect the result of the window, youre still removing the grime. Believe me, I love getting the day off , but I've got bills to pay.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: seandyer2003 on September 09, 2008, 06:27:40 pm
I agree with that last bit Matt, you can get sympathy here and there, but you can't take the mick. It's their money, they are your bosses.

Of course you don't have a "right" to earn money. ::)

Does a roofer force you have a new roof?
If no-one wants a new roof he doesn't work.
The same applies.

Window cleaning isn't a guaranteed earner every day.
Most self-employed jobs aren't.

Get a shop job.

And the way things are gonna go money wise after xmas why start upsetting custys now, you wanna be in their good books, not "oh he only comes when its raining sack him" ive heard people say that when im canvassing about there cleaner...no thanks!
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Moderator David@stives on September 09, 2008, 07:18:32 pm
We earn every day , rain or shine.

If they moan we sack them, we now have a round of non moaners, they know we have to work and dont take the mick.

They all appreciate our business and know if we are to survive they occassionally have to have there windows cleaned in the odd bit of bad weather.

We have not lost one day this year due to bad weather and we are running bang on time.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Paul Coleman on September 09, 2008, 07:32:27 pm
Do you feel we have a "right" to earn a living cleaning windows? The weather round here has been awful ( as it probably has been wherever you are). Whilst cleaning this morning in fine, dry overcast conditions, I got a "not today, it's going to rain this afternoon." I resisted asking whether it would have been fine to clean them yesterday, if it was going to rain this afternoon. I also resisted pointing out that my kids still eat, my electricity bill still comes etc etc. I didn't clean them and I won't again, but it got me asking myself the question - do we have a right to earn a living? Should we expect loyalty from the customer in return for our loyalty to them? I know how I 'd answer. How about you?

The really funny thing is that the ones who complain about you working in the rain are often the same ones that complain if you are running late.  Some want their cake and eat it.
I think my line would be that if I had to stop working in rain, I would have to charge a lot more to cover the downtime.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: mark dew on September 09, 2008, 07:38:04 pm
I think a customer has the right to say not this time as long as it is the exception rather than the rule.
If they do it too much i don't go back and don't tell them.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: ftp on September 09, 2008, 07:40:35 pm
Did you all have your cars washed today in this filthy weather just to keep the car valeters employed? Of course you didn't! Having said that too many refusals and i'll dump them but only if i have enough work.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Bobs Window Cleaning on September 09, 2008, 07:45:47 pm
guttersarus


Are you simon123?


Bob
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Feen on September 09, 2008, 07:46:33 pm
Wrote a longer reply that went down with my computer >:( Basically I am fine with people calling off for holidays or whatever, but not when I am there and the weather is fine and it "might" rain later. Squeaky - shop job ??? Matt & ftp- did you actually read my post ???
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: ftp on September 09, 2008, 07:52:48 pm
I did, and no you can't expect too much loyalty from a customer, you're only cleaning windows - hardly essential really.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: prestigeclean on September 09, 2008, 08:03:25 pm
clearly the customer has the right to say not today , but we can also say i,m sorry your off my list , its that simple , and its also obvious that the guys on here who earn moneyh are the one,s who work in it and if you say you should be able to earn enough on the good days then your not very ambitious regards alan
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Feen on September 09, 2008, 08:09:59 pm
Just what I was getting at in my original post. I can't force them to have their windows cleaned and they can't force me to do it.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: matt on September 09, 2008, 08:10:35 pm
Wrote a longer reply that went down with my computer >:( Basically I am fine with people calling off for holidays or whatever, but not when I am there and the weather is fine and it "might" rain later. Squeaky - shop job ??? Matt & ftp- did you actually read my post ???

yes i read it

im of the opinion that the customer is right, they pay the money, we provide a service

now its upto you to draw a line on how much the customer takes / you give

ive found the line i am happy with, my customers seem happy with the line aswell

if it rains, i dont clean, if it looks like its going to rain, they get cleaned, if its light drizzle and i have only a few windows to do, they get done

Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: dudek on September 09, 2008, 08:28:46 pm
I have got rid of most of my non loyal custs now and when bringing a new person onto my rounds i tell them that i come rain or shine as thats the only way i can provide a regular service.

Apart from the odd line' you always come when it rains' from the more established of my custs i dont get a peep. ;)
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Sir Squeaky on September 09, 2008, 08:48:57 pm
Wrote a longer reply that went down with my computer >:( Basically I am fine with people calling off for holidays or whatever, but not when I am there and the weather is fine and it "might" rain later. Squeaky - shop job ??? Matt & ftp- did you actually read my post ???

yes i read it

im of the opinion that the customer is right, they pay the money, we provide a service

now its upto you to draw a line on how much the customer takes / you give

ive found the line i am happy with, my customers seem happy with the line aswell

if it rains, i dont clean, if it looks like its going to rain, they get cleaned, if its light drizzle and i have only a few windows to do, they get done


sounds right apart from my weekly shops which get cleaned friday whatever the weather
Yep, I agree with both of you.

(except I do my shops on monday) ;D
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: peter holley on September 09, 2008, 09:36:10 pm
I agree that you should easily earn enough on dry days.

this isnt a dig,,, but last week there was only 2 dry days.....even £350 aday over 2 days wouldnt be enough! considering that we need to cover sickness holidays ,tax , repairs , the unexpected etc....

then again if i was single and living in a small house it would be ok... but i have 3 kids , a 4 bed detached, and a lifestyle that i have got used to :-\   im retracting my first sentence as i type :-\
maybe its my outgoings  thats the problem :(
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: davids3511 on September 09, 2008, 09:40:54 pm
I agree that you should easily earn enough on dry days.

this isnt a dig,,, but last week there was only 2 dry days.....even £350 aday over 2 days wouldnt be enough! considering that we need to cover sickness holidays ,tax , repairs , the unexpected etc....

then again if i was single and living in a small house it would be ok... but i have 3 kids , a 4 bed detached, and a lifestyle that i have got used to :-\   im retracting my first sentence as i type :-\
maybe its my outgoings  thats the problem :(

I agree. Problem is on a topic like this is that everyone else thinks they know how much people should be happy to live on without having a clue what their circumstances are.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: peter holley on September 09, 2008, 09:50:52 pm
i worked today in very bad weather, and about 70% were in , i had no funny comments , just empathy on that the rain has been bad over the past few months.... it gave me a boost to know that i can and will continue to work in the rain..... wrap up hoody on ...radio on ...wear a smile and crack on ...then count the money at the end of the day, and pat yourself on the back for perseveering :D
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Tim82 on September 09, 2008, 10:15:39 pm
I think a customer has the right to say not this time as long as it is the exception rather than the rule.
If they do it too much i don't go back and don't tell them.

3 strikes and they're out is how i do it.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: gerard mcmanus on September 10, 2008, 02:20:44 pm
We don't have a constitution as america does. We do not have the right to drive a car, or to earn a living. We are not born or created equal either.

Luckily the government does allow us to drive work and hold a passport, but these are not rights.


You’re an idiot Discount, it has nothing to do with government “Your Right’s” or maybe you have heard of “Liberty” of course you can earn a living to think otherwise you would be an idiot as you have clearly demonstrated.

 ::)

thats alittle harse mate, do you really want to spend your time insulting people on here or talking about window cleaning.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: jefftemperley on September 10, 2008, 03:01:37 pm
part of the job is driving to the house if i arrive and told not today they get binned. if they give me notice to skip it no problem.... but i dont want to spend my time and fuel driving to jobs that wont pay
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: gsw on September 10, 2008, 10:05:07 pm
we dont have a "right" to earn a living BUT

when you take the customer on they are employing you to CLEAN their windows, my customers are informed at that time that I clean every 4 weeks or if they prefer every 8 weeks.

windows CAN be cleaned in the rain (even torrential):fact

so put the 2 together and they get a regular and reliable service at the interval they chose regardless of the weather.

If they decide at a later date this is not what they actually wanted, they have the RIGHT to decline my service and I have the RIGHT to tell them to stick their windows!! 


and so my business runs on.... rain or shine.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Londoner on September 11, 2008, 10:01:42 am
Actually, you do have the right to work. Its part of the Euopean Human Rights Act. But if you want to try telling that to some irate housewife on the doorstep in the rain - good luck.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Oakley Windows on September 11, 2008, 10:15:11 am
Thing is she also has the right to cancel  ;D

Not that it helps you or  makes you feel particularly good about your world, but she does!


Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: matt on September 11, 2008, 10:25:38 am
So you do have a “Right” to clean there windows every 4 weeks or 8 weeks!

“The right to earn a living” Common Law? Goes back to the Magna Carta, bureaucrats would have you thinking otherwise!


yes mrs jones, i WILL clean your windows in the pouring rain, why, its my right, it goes back to the Magna Carta

will that really work ? ? ? ?
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: cybersye on September 11, 2008, 11:13:34 am
When you have an established round and you know most of your customers you'll be aware of the messers/fussers, those who are out during the day and those easy jobs where rain wont effect you too much. Personally I dont work if its already raining before I go out. I dont mind being behind because of the weather because I know the money is there and I will catch up. If I have to work on rainy days then I pick the ones I know wont be in or mess me about.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on September 11, 2008, 05:34:06 pm
I don't enjoy working in the rain. But I know I can if I have to because I tell my custy's when I take them on that I while will try to work in dry conditions I will work when it's "light showers and not blowing a gale".

Occasionally I used to get the not today's and I had a surprising one for the first time in a year last week over which I took a business decision (poor access, low value) to "let go"...

I too notice that the financially successful train their custy's from the outset and those that want to justify why they aren't financially successful use rain as an excuse along with "you can't do that in my area" to any helpful suggestion on this forum.
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: Paul Coleman on September 11, 2008, 06:42:14 pm
So you do have a “Right” to clean there windows every 4 weeks or 8 weeks!

“The right to earn a living” Common Law? Goes back to the Magna Carta, bureaucrats would have you thinking otherwise!


yes mrs jones, i WILL clean your windows in the pouring rain, why, its my right, it goes back to the Magna Carta

will that really work ? ? ? ?

So did douible jeopardy but that didn't stop them from binning it (under limited circumstances for the time being)
Title: Re: The Right to earn a living?
Post by: peter holley on September 12, 2008, 12:02:48 am
I don't enjoy working in the rain. But I know I can if I have to because I tell my custy's when I take them on that I while will try to work in dry conditions I will work when it's "light showers and not blowing a gale".

Occasionally I used to get the not today's and I had a surprising one for the first time in a year last week over which I took a business decision (poor access, low value) to "let go"...

I too notice that the financially successful train their custy's from the outset and those that want to justify why they aren't financially successful use rain as an excuse along with "you can't do that in my area" to any helpful suggestion on this forum.



very well put!    spot on










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