Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve Weatherley on September 05, 2008, 02:59:34 pm
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I have been doing various types of cleaning work for a company who manage blocks of flats for 18 months. I am not under contract to them - they just ask me to do the work when required and I do it and invoice them. I also do regular work i.e communal cleaning etc every week. My invoices state 14 days payment - this was agreed with the company owner and until recently there has not been a problem.
The problem is this. Since the end of June this year I havent been paid. These are invoices dating back to the end of July and onwards and total 2500 plus. Now I know that this may not seem very long to have to wait but I get a bad feeling. Every time I chase the owner he is not available. I have tried his mobile and left messages and emailed him. Finally earlier this week I got through to the ownerwho lost his temper with me telling me that I am being unreasonable chasing the money so urgently and that he too is owed a lot of money but it his words ' you have to put up with waiting like everyone else in business'.
I have not been able to pay myself a wage since July now and am not able to sustain this kind of liability being a single operator with a family and bills to pay like most other people. However I am wary of chasing too hard at the moment because in the current economic climate I daren't lose this customer - 25% of all my turnover. But also I dont want to appear as though I am a pushover.
I am worried now that he may have so much debt himself that I may not get paid.
any advice please
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Steve,
I would strongly advise that you dont do anymore work for these people until they settle the monies owed to you.
I would send a "Final reminder" to the main man stating that if the balance is not settled in full within 7 days then you will commence county court action to recover the debt, make it understood that this is the final corespondance you will be sending regarding this matter. Make sure this letter is sent 1st class recorded delivery.
Issuing county court papers is simple, fill in 3 sheets of paper and pay th £30.00 fee. They will then pursue the matter for you.
Do not worry about losing this customer, as it seems to me you would be better off without them anyway, if they cant pay you for whatever reason they should at least have the decency to answer your calls in any case.
Mark
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I agree with what Mark says, but for that sum of money I have an idea it is more then £30
Google small claims or somethng like that and you will get info.
and I think you can go thro the system on line now.
Whilst you may get judgement in court you may still be up the swanny for the money.
For extra money the court will take a choice of actions as directed by you - inc. sending in a bailiff.
When you get judgement it effectively gives them a CCJ which is not good for their credit rating - in fact it is lousey for them.
25% of your turnover is a lot - eggs, basket, and too many spring to mind.
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I wouldn't wait another day Steve - good client or not.
Send your final demand letter and be prepared to back it up.
Then get working on finding new clients to replace someone who talks to you like crap and is taking the pee regarding payment. They are not worth dealing with.
Steve
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Am with the guys above on this one.
Looks like there having trouble with cash flow.
I would not be spoken too like that either so chase it up through the courts.
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I've been on both sides of the fence with this sort of thing, damn right it's a tricky one :-\
If you still feel you have the good will, I'd try one more time to speak to the guy, not making demands but trying to understand what the problem is. If it's cash flow and he's going to be able to pay but not immediately, as you say it may well benefit you to be a little lenient.
You may be able to come to some agreement whereby he pays you in monthly instalments. You'd need to decide whether you're going to carry on working for him in the mean time though, which may rack up more debt than is being paid off. It may be that he's waiting for a big cheque and he could pay you 5 times over in a week's time.
Business relationships are built on similar emotions to human relationships. It's give and take. I think you need to find out whether he has good intentions but bad cash flow or if he's just taking the mickey by not paying you >:(
If you get no joy with the softly softly approach, I think you might have to resign yourself to the fact you've lost the customer. In that case....
www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
Don't waste any more time on him other than the 5 minutes on that website. Simple as.
You'll respect yourself much more in a few months time having stood your ground and got the money.
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Hi
The last time i had this, it was approx 2k.
The owner said he had a million pound turnover.
I chased him for it, i'm very persistant.
He paid, shortly after he was bankrupt.
Dave
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Hi Steve
I wouldn`t wait either.
I`v just gone through the HMCS online as some Pr##k took me for £180 in Feb.
I sent him numerous letters and rang him he then didn`t answer my calls.
As i was so busy i just left it, but it eats you up ever single day, so went on line filled out the forms paid £25.00 then its up to them to chase it.
You feel a lot better for doing it, he may have been a good custy in the past
but it sounds as if HE has problems.
Send one more letter and then get on line ;)
Daryl
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Hi Steve
He may not have paid you because he doesn't have any money! read your own past again, regardless of the fact that he is a big part of your turnover he isn't paying you, you haven't drawn wage for a while, you don't need clients like that.
We do business with clinets on OUR terms and conditions, not theirs. OK, not many of us actually have terms and conditions but we should at least have good debt recovery posilcies in place.
I work on 14 days for commercial. I send one statement of account after 21 days, a reminder and statement advising that we use a debt collection agency for bad debts, after 28 days, a final statement threatening the use of a debt collection agency, with all costs being bourne by the clients, then I pass the debt on to a debt collection agency for them to collect.
Play hard ball, it's your money at the end of the day. Some say that 60 or 90 days is the norm... whateva! When you chase money you are typically dealing with their accounts payable dept. Their job is not to pay until they have to! Doesn't always mean you won't get any more work, they will respect you more for it - trust me, I used to work in these environments.
Pass the debt on. I use a company called P&J Debt Collection Service, google them. Send a final statement with the following text.
Please not that if payment is not received by (at least 7 working days) then we will be passing your debt to a debt collecting agency for collection with all costs being borne by you.
Get yourself some Terms and Conditions and print them on the back of every invoice.
Hope this helps
Chris
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Steve
Been in a similar situation as you agreed there payment terms two weeks, :o never been a problem then suddenly it changed to 30days a lot of phone calls pushed from pillar to post between there two offices, then back to two weeks now back to 30days which I accept, subject to certain conditions oh it’s a plc not that means a lot to me.
But having a gut felling different kettle of fish have you been given the wink lost contract, ;) you will be the last in the pecking order, think of it as tax write off, commercial can be a pain.
Advice I believe a good accountant will be needed
I’ve often been spoken too like that; take it with a pinch of salt. Always got what owed 8)
Len
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If you google in Thomas Higgins, they are the best at this. Mostly because they dont charge you, they get the fees from the Client.
Over 15 years using them they have never let me down from lousy £50.00 to £2,500.00.
They send a series of letters initially one called 'letter before action' that usually gets them rattled, then they discuss with you what you want to do.
Luckily I have allways had a paper trail to prove my case so allways been paid.
Murky
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I know how you feel. I run the business with my partner he does the manual work and I do the admin. I must spend 40% of my time chasing people for money. I even had to get the debt collectors in earlier this year. You have to be persistent the more you irritate them the better otherwise your invoices end up at the bottom of the pile.
Send a final demand for the money, if after two weeks that hasn't worked either put a debt collector on the case or go thru the courts.
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It is cheaper and easier to fill out an N1 form on line, print it off and send it with your Final Demand letter and tell them you will send it to the courts if payment is not received in 7 days. From that day on you can then charge interest and the costs for filing at court ( I think it is between £35.00 up to £250 depending how much you are claiming), I would also put in the letter that solicitors costs will also be added, even if you have no intention of using one.
Debt collection agencies normally come into play after you have won a case and still not received payment.
Once you have gone down this route you can kiss the customer goodbye though!
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personally, i'd go and have a nice friendly chat with him (face to face), find out whats going on, if i didn't get the right answers then i'd do the above, but i'd always give them the chance to explain themselves first.
derek
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Hi Steve,
I have had this 3 or 4 times. One occasion about 9 years ago i was with a massive cleaning company to whom i did alot of carpet cleaning and fire retarding for. At the beginning all was fine, then they asked me to quote for larger work. I had agreed a price per square metre with the area manager who was happy with my prices. I did the work then put in my invoices totalling nearly £3000 stating 30 days. After 45 days i contacted the accounts department but got no real answer regarding payment. after 60 days i contacted the area manager who informed me that his boss had said my prices were to high and needed to be reduced. I had already quoted at bottom prices as i was doing massive areas. I told him that to reduce invoices was not possible. In the end i went to the offices that the area managers boss was at. I walked straight into his office and refused to go till i was guaranteed payment. We agreed that id go back the following day to collect a cheque. I did inform him that the next step was court action. Got the cheque the following day. I was never asked to do further work but to be honest i wouldnt have anyway.
Go to there offices and meet the guy face to face. If you still get nowhere then start court action.
Richie.
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I would be weary about going to the office, this guy has already been abusive on the phone.
This happened to me a few months back and I was dumb enough to go the company. The Boss even offered a fight between me and his son, 5 of them, 1 of me, wasnt even Pimms o clock.
Got the money ;D and best of all the whole lot on camera, will have to post it sometime 8)
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I would be weary about going to the office, this guy has already been abusive on the phone.
This happened to me a few months back and I was dumb enough to go the company. The Boss even offered a fight between me and his son, 5 of them, 1 of me, wasnt even Pimms o clock.
Got the money ;D and best of all the whole lot on camera, will have to post it sometime 8)
. I have even bought there company name .co.uk might set up a website ;D
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Polite but strong letter detailing what you will do if money is'nt sent within x days.