Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jeff1 on August 29, 2008, 04:22:45 pm
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Well apart from the painting (Michelle wants it Blue to match the paint on the floor of her van) the Swivel is now complete and I must say it works a treat, the black thing you see on top of the hose reel is a bottle holder from a push bike, (sorry Just noticed you can't see the bottle holder) This is used to stop the reel UN-winding as you pull it out and that also works a treat.
The hose reel can be removed at any time, I welded two hooks to hook the base into and and the front slots just inside the small plate I welded on, this stops the hose reel from being pulled of the swivel.
What else I like about the swivel is, When your winding the hose back in, there is no need to hold the hose, hold onto the handle of the reel, wind in your hose and move the reel right and left to feed in back on straight.
At the moment the frame is in skeleton mode, the front panel you see still has to be fitted yet, I may also weld on a few eye's around the edge to use as lashing points because as things stand, There is a lot of wasted space on-top of the tank, I may yet put a sheet of tin on top Just so we can utilise the space.
When the work is complete I'll put some pictures up when its installed into the Van.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage008Small.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage009Small.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage003Small.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage004Small.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage005Small.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage006Small.jpg)
The cage in skeleton Mode with 2 coats of red oxide before the top coat coats on.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCage010Small.jpg)
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Can i have 1 please Jeff when your ready.
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very nice
i will pop down for you to mine ;) ;)
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I've got no more swivel chairs left ;D ;D
But after making one, you don't need a swivel chair, Just some steel tubing and steel plate.
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How does the tank go in to it from the top open end(in the pic) or does the frame slot over the tank
The swivel looks good a great idea looks like i might need a new seat at the computer ;D
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The Tank will slide in from the front and the front steel plate will be added with bolts afterwards.
Looks like were going to see lots of bits of swivel chairs at the dump now then lol
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funny enough, my brother has a office in london, they are throwing out 20 chairs ( having new desks aswell ) i might get him to save me a few
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Get them and make some swivels, you'll make a fortune Lol
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Nice one Jeff!!
I am sure you have thought of this but how are you going to get your tank into the frame? Have you made the frame taller than the tank so that you can slide it in?
I used to be in office supplies and have thrown hundreds and hundreds of swivel chairs away.. DOH!!! :o
I have an idea and will be calling you soon mate :)
Andrew
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Nice one Jeff!!
I am sure you have thought of this but how are you going to get your tank into the frame? Have you made the frame taller than the tank so that you can slide it in?
I used to be in office supplies and have thrown hundreds and hundreds of swivel chairs away.. DOH!!! :o
I have an idea and will be calling you soon mate :)
Andrew
Thanks Andrew
The panel at the front is not yet been fixed, before I fix it I'll slide the tank in then bolt the front panel on.
Just been out and added 4 lashing strap fixings and painted the first coat of blue, I plan to add a removable top so that we can use the top of the frame as storage, I went to take a photo but my battery run flat, its on charge right now so give it 15 minutes and I'll get the picture with the front panel removed.
Like I said to Matt you don't need a swivel chair all that is needed is a couple of plates and some tube (all steel)
I also owe you an apology :'( It has taken me 4 hours to get this far but that includes making the swivel & the painting, I'm thinking another hours work to complete the final coat and fixing the front, that's not including the install.
Give me a call anytime upto 1 am any night ;D
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Managed to get the pictures, the lashing fixings are there for ratchets just to hold stuff to the top of the tank.
Front panel removed to show how the tank will be installed and the first coat of blue is now on.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCageblue002Small.jpg)
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Very proffesional looking......
What metal did you use for the frame...? The reason I ask is that I might need to get a 400L frame madeup soon.....
Regards
Mr H
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Mild Steel but if you can get stainless then go for that instead, I wanted stainless but my mate had none in stock.
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I liked it.
I think you answered some of my queiries by answering andrew. I'll just make a couple of points that probably aren't relevant or you've probably already thought of because we have the same van and set up (i don't have a cage obviously)
Presumably you want the hose to exit via the side door on the drivers side and will therefore need the winding handle behind the bulk head (you need a bit of elbow room) and the hoselock feed facing the back doors. Is it handed to do this?
Sorry if this is obvious.
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Jeff1, Do you think it will stand up to the test?
I'm not trying to be annoying, nor trying to claim that I know a lot about welding water tank frames, but I thought a few diagonals on that might help spread the load when under severe stress?
Please, everyone else, don't all jump on this with your negative opinions! Just what I noticed.
Thanks,
Jay.
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is there some way of locking the swivel as that would be annoying when reeling in
good job by the way ;)
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I liked it.
I think you answered some of my queiries by answering andrew. I'll just make a couple of points that probably aren't relevant or you've probably already thought of because we have the same van and set up (i don't have a cage obviously)
Presumably you want the hose to exit via the side door on the drivers side and will therefore need the winding handle behind the bulk head (you need a bit of elbow room) and the hoselock feed facing the back doors. Is it handed to do this?
Sorry if this is obvious.
Hi Clive
The hose will exit from side and rear doors, if you notice on the silver plate were the swivel base is fitted, you will notice I moved the swivel base close to the edge for this reason, I can also move the silver plate a little more towards the rear if I need to, I haven't tested it in the van yet but will be looking at this next week.
Jeff1, Do you think it will stand up to the test?
I'm not trying to be annoying, nor trying to claim that I know a lot about welding water tank frames, but I thought a few diagonals on that might help spread the load when under severe stress?
Please, everyone else, don't all jump on this with your negative opinions! Just what I noticed.
Thanks,
Jay.
Hi Jay
Thanks for your comments, there much appreciated as everyone else's is.
This is the only tank cage I have ever built but you make a good point, my daughters safety is the upmost importance to me.
I also need some more support for the top I intend to add to it, so a couple of diagonals would serve a couple of purposes.
Thanks for pointing that out, I'll post another picture over the weekend showing the new diagonal bars added.
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is there some way of locking the swivel as that would be annoying when reeling in
good job by the way ;)
That was mentioned to me the other day, it is on the drawing board, I plan to have a bar (spring loaded I hope) I will drill a series of holes for the direction its facing x3, the bar will drop into a hole and stop the swivel as mentioned to me the other day it will help lock it in place during driving.
When I did some tests with it in the Garden, I noticed that by holding onto the top of the hose reel I was able to gently twist the reel right and left and this put the hose onto the reel a little more neater and I never had to hold the hose.
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Hi Jay
Thanks for your comments, there much appreciated as everyone else's is.
This is the only tank cage I have ever built but you make a good point, my daughters safety is the upmost importance to me.
I also need some more support for the top I intend to add to it, so a couple of diagonals would serve a couple of purposes.
Thanks for pointing that out, I'll post another picture over the weekend showing the new diagonal bars added.
I knew you were concerned about your daughters safety!
I noticed on the ionic web site, that they have diagonals pointing down toward the front of vehicle.
Have you seen any photo's of ionics stuff?
It might give some ideas, but any idea can be improved; you've shown that with swivel reel!
Just add a motor onto the side of it and you'll be discounts best mate :P :P :P
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Do you have a link to ionics site so I can have a look??
As for the electric reel, I won't be using the reel, so Michelle can keep cranking the handle Lol
I forgot to mention that the front will have a steel sheet bolted to it, so this will add to the strength but I still like the idea of a couple of diagonals
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Do you have a link to ionics site so I can have a look??
As for the electric reel, I won't be using the reel, so Michelle can keep cranking the handle Lol
I forgot to mention that the front will have a steel sheet bolted to it, so this will add to the strength but I still like the idea of a couple of diagonals
Here's some pics of tennets ionic system: www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=57870.40 (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=57870.40)
Ionic site is: www.ionicsystems.com/english/index.html (http://www.ionicsystems.com/english/index.html) but i couldn't see any side on pics.
Also, I was wrong about the larger ionics systems, the diag's don't all point down, but they are diagonals all the same.
Jay.
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I know I can be dogmatic but....
The hose should exit from the drivers side side door.Even without the swivel (and the swivel is a massive improvement) all angles are catered for providing you know this when you park.
Once you have it set up this way there are a couple of good reasons why you either can't or wouldn't want to exit out of the other two doors.
You don't want to go out of the back door because winding will be a difficult angle.
I'll admitt you can go out of the passenger side door by puting the tap over instead of under if you get what I mean (but not by using the swivel because the hoselock feed would be a problem)
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I know I can be dogmatic but....
The hose should exit from the drivers side side door.Even without the swivel (and the swivel is a massive improvement) all angles are catered for providing you know this when you park.
Once you have it set up this way there are a couple of good reasons why you either can't or wouldn't want to exit out of the other two doors.
You don't want to go out of the back door because winding will be a difficult angle.
I'll admitt you can go out of the passenger side door by puting the tap over instead of under if you get what I mean (but not by using the swivel because the hoselock feed would be a problem)
Third attempt at replying :'(
I or Michelle will have a few Jobs were she will need to exit the pasenger side door and what I've thought about is I will mount the plate further backwards on the frame, I will also mount the frame further towards the rear, this will serve a couple of things.
1. The ability to stand behind the tank to reel the hose in if it exits the rear doors.
2. I will be able to fit the battery, varistream and pump on the other side to the reel just behind the bulkhead.
doing it this way you can manouver yourself to the best winding position, it will also give you clearence for the hose lock connector.
I wont be able to do field tests until the middle of next week, once the floor paint has been delivered.
Thanks for your help Jay it was very helpful seeing those cages. ;)
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It hadn't occured to me that she will be able to get into the van.
remember to exit the passenger door you needn't swivel the reel, just put the tap over instead of under.
However, if you put the reel nearer to the drivers side door so that it is a nice reachable height for Michele this will be arkward when using the hose from the passenger door.
Obviously with a 650 tank my space options are more limited than yours but I have never come across any situation that exit via drivers side side door doesn't cater for.
I'm not saying this to be argumentative, but to say as user of this van I have found this to be best. Please other users comment and if you think me wrong say so.
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The few Jobs we have are in a Hamlet and We do both sides of it, rather than put the gear away, it will be easier to pass the hose through the van than to turn the van around because we can only park on one side of the lane, once the hose is running across the road we fit it into our rubber hose protector so the traffic can run over it, its more for ease rather than being unable to do it.
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Jeff... Are you only using 4 bolts to hold it down?
Bazz...
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Yes I am Bazz, M12x70 High tensile and under the chassis will be 3'' square plate
If it was an upright tank I would use many more because of the forces that could happen but with a lay flat I think the forces would be disipated before hand.
I'm pretty sure this would be enough.
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I use M16 but my tank is 650L ...
Be nice if someone come up with an idea of a 4" x 2" chanel section frame which is bolted or welded below the chasie (spelling) then the tank frame welded or bolted to that through the floor...
I still think chanel section is stronger than angle iron IMO...
Bazz...
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Channel section would be ideal for under the chassis and even just bolted would provide exceptional strength, might see if I can get some of the correct size next week.
I could use larger bolts but I feel this would weaken the fixing brackets if the hole is to big.
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looks good mate. nice job.
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looks good mate. nice job.
Thank You ;)
Jay of Jewel Cleaning pointed out to me last night the need for diagonals struts, so today I ground off the paint were the welds would be and added 4 strut diagonals to add strength to the cage, I also added a length of flat steel on the open end of the cage again just to add a little more strength.
Thanks Jay, I did take your comments seriously ;)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCageblue004Small.jpg)
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Me again :-X droning on, when I swapped from a 400 to a 650 the footprint was the same, only the height differed. Is this true of the tank you are using, or would you put another (ie two tanks) in if michele needed to carry more water and would the frame easily (in terms of man hours) adapt to this?
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Drone on as much as you like Clive.
Shell will be working part time only, she has to work around her boy's but if needed It wouldn't take a lot to adapt the frame to take another 250ltr tank.
I would sooner bin that frame and build a bigger one for the bigger tank, as a temporary measure if she does need more water then she can take half a dozen containers with her.
My next project is a cage to fit some water containers into, they will sit in a frame with a chain through the handles of the containers and a chain at the front, the back of it will be made of steel box sections to stop any forward momentum.
But tomorrow I'm making her pole holders for inside the van.
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Jeff... when is the big day next month you hand it all over :'(
Bazz...
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8th September when the kids go back to school. ;D ;D ;D seem's like months away.
I don't know about having a rest, Michelle last week brought home 3 guttering Jobs and 2 Conservatory Cleans :'( Still its what I wanted, just guttering and cons.
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8th September when the kids go back to school. ;D ;D ;D seem's like months away.
I don't know about having a rest, Michelle last week brought home 3 guttering Jobs and 2 Conservatory Cleans :'( Still its what I wanted, just guttering and conservatorys.
Your going to need something to keep you going ;D
Jeff.. when you get really bored can you knock up something thats like the M1 swivel Gaz use to do?
Bazz...
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That's already on the cards Bazz, ;)
I've been waiting 2 months now for a spare part for my lathe, I was going to try and turn one in ally for lightness, brass will be far to heavy. but I'll give it a go.
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That's already on the cards Bazz, ;)
I've been waiting 2 months now for a spare part for my lathe, I was going to try and turn one in ally for lightness, brass will be far to heavy. but I'll give it a go.
I always thought you or Joe will make one some day... my money is on you (with your new spare time)..
Bazz...
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That's already on the cards Bazz, ;)
I've been waiting 2 months now for a spare part for my lathe, I was going to try and turn one in ally for lightness, brass will be far to heavy. but I'll give it a go.
I always thought you or Joe will make one some day... my money is on you (with your new spare time)..
Bazz...
My new spare time LMAO!!!
The Mk1 swivel will have to be turned on a lathe and Joe doesn't have a lathe.
I recon I'm going to be even more busy soon, I have a load of conservatories and guttering to do, for the past four months we have been pushing this type of work and its paying off at the moment.
I took my control panel out of my trailer today and I've started to make up a new one for Michelles van, she didn't like the upvc I had it mounted on and she picked up some of your decking I had stashed away for a rainy day :'(
I'll be using my trailer to carry the gear for cleaning cons and guttering as Michelle will only be part time, I'll still be keeping my hand in with a little w/c.
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looks good mate. nice job.
Thank You ;)
Jay of Jewel Cleaning pointed out to me last night the need for diagonals struts, so today I ground off the paint were the welds would be and added 4 strut diagonals to add strength to the cage, I also added a length of flat steel on the open end of the cage again just to add a little more strength.
Thanks Jay, I did take your comments seriously ;)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/MakingtheSwivelCageblue004Small.jpg)
That looks really strong now.
Nice one, very professional looking!
Wish I could use a welder! It would be very useful.
Regards,
Jay.
(Jewel Cleaning Services)
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I feel a little happier now the extra bars are fitted, Just knocked up some pole holders, there is a piccy in my other post.
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what sort of lathe have you got?
Did you ever use one in a job?
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what sort of lathe have you got?
Did you ever use one in a job?
Its a Japanees one cost around £1,000 with a few extras for it I've lost my link or I could have showed you it. and I have never used one in a Job, just a hobby I have had for many years, I also have a wood lathe but haven't used that in a few years now.
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My Dad's got one, it's him who makes the bits. He often get's asked to make bits that no one else can for motor bike racing teams etc. Theres lots of things you could do as so few have this now.
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I expect your Dad Clive has a vast amount of knowledge, a lot more than me, I only do it for a hobby I've been asked in the past to do a few things, some I could do and some I thought I never had the necessary skills to achieve a good Job.
When I do get the time Bazzy1999 has asked me to try and turn the Gaz Mk1 swivel, so I may just take this one on if the time is right.
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He was in engineering all his life and knows all about threads and stuff. we had a caravan when i was a kid (early sixties) and on the sites people always wanted one of his wing mirrors that attached to the window and stuck out further. He made an all in one awning with a single peace zip front and a manufacturer approached us and said he'd never seen anything like it.
He was a manager with dunlop, aviation division and made plane de icing systems and carbon brakes, but he much prefers working on a lathe which he did when he was a kid at bth in cov. (apprentice of the year, youngest foreman)
I'm more of a theory dreamer type person.
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One of my uncles sort of got me interested in metal working he was a foreman at Triumph motor bikes in the midlands, I would love to meet your dad, I bet I could pick up tons of tips from him (very clever man).
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He has broadband. Any lathe questions he'd help.
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I'll hold you to that Clive, were about in the midlands do you live?
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Why doesn't anything go smoothly any more?
I returned home at midday to try and get this tank cage finished, I was going to drill some holes and fit the panel on the front, do you think I could find my box of self tapping screws, I hunted high and low for them and still couldn't find them. :'(
I couldn't be bothered to jump in the car to get some more, so I got my Tap & Die set out but the only small bolts I could find were all of the counter sunk type, so I not only had to drill all the holes and Tap them all but on the front panel I had to countersink all the holes.
I finally did that walked in my shed and low and behold there on the shelf facing me was my box of self tapping screws. Ahhhh!
Here is a pic of just the top holes being done and below is a pic of the tank in place and just to let you all know it fits like a glove Lol
If that paint for the van doesn't arrive tomorrow as promised, I'm going to London to punch the guy's head in because I'm getting stressed out now, handing over a business is not just saying here's the customers names and address, it involves the Tax man, Insurance companies, admin, doing Michelles van up, building a cage and swivel reel etc, it seem's never ending so roll on next week when it should all be over.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/Tankfront003Small.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/Tankfront004Small.jpg)
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Looking good Jeff, is there a plate to go onto the face where the outlet pipe is to stop the tank sliding out?
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Looking good Jeff, is there a plate to go onto the face where the outlet pipe is to stop the tank sliding out?
Thanks ftp
Its the big blue thing in the picture Lol
On the bottom right hand corner were the out-let is, I cut out a square section this afternoon so the elbow is free and the pipe can come out.
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Any guess as to how much the whole cage will weigh?
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No Sorry I haven't, I carry it in and out of the workshop so its not mega heavy, I don't know anywhere around here I could get it weighed. :'(
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Well its all finished and installed Now, ready for the big handover on Monday morning.
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That red brush in the van did you get it from Sureclean in ireland,my god there rubbish lol. ;D ;D ;D
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There Gaz brush's, been using them for 18 months with no complaints so can't be that bad.
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i toyed with the idea of making a cage my self and optied not to but looking at wot you have done i kinda wish i had now. looks great jeff.
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Thanks Dean
The total cost of my cage was less than £50, If your any good at welding then go for it. ;)
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I was gonna do a course at Poole collage but after you said its not the sort of thing you can learn quickly I'm back to the drawing board.
gonna phone around to see if a local welder would be willing depending on costs. this will be my 2nd system for a 650ltr upright.
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Thanks Dean
The total cost of my cage was less than £50, If your any good at welding then go for it. ;)
I think my new frame metal cost about £50 aswell, I know the ramps I just had custom made cost me £50 just for 2 strips of metal :o ( went direct for them aswell and used what was left from frame.
I would say though I do seem to have a lot more metal on mine though apart from the top.
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i'm gonna start phoning around to see what the local fabricators will charge me.
there are bloody loads round here but every thing is expensive round here so not overly hopeful,
I have got a rhino roof rack on my kangoo i could strip down and utilize. I'd only get bartered down to next to nothing if i tried to sell it.
got any pics Ian?
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i'm gonna start phoning around to see what the local fabricators will charge me.
there are bloody loads round here but every thing is expensive round here so not overly hopeful,
I have got a rhino roof rack on my kangoo i could strip down and utilize. I'd only get bartered down to next to nothing if i tried to sell it.
got any pics Ian?
I do but not on this pc, I will post some. is for a 2x 250l set up 2 pumps etc ect
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lookin 4wrd to seeing
i could do with a pic or two of some to give to a fabricator so the know what i'm after