Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Bob Robertson on August 27, 2008, 09:04:52 pm
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Job done yesterday using aniline dye with a small air spray gun.
First pic has got degreaser powder on the head area. Custy loved the two tone effect.
Bob
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ooooo nice job, roll on my ltt restoration couse, bring it on.
derek
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what made you spray it on instead of rubbing it in?
steve
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It was a new process that Andy (LTT) done on a sample cushion I sent him . As far as I am aware it is the first time it has been done . Custy said it looks better than when they first bought it.
Bob
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How much did that cost you in materials Bob?
And if it is not too cheeky, how much did you charge for the job and how long did it take?
It looks good :)
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well done
looks good
steve
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Bob
Interesting. Can I presume you brown dyed first then black to 2 tone? I think it looks good, did you manage to get all the grease out? and did the dye colour it ok on this section?
Lastly did the dye penetrate ok or did it sit on the suface for a while then sink in? Also did the dye once dried, give an equal finish or did it look a tad speckly and so you had to go over it again?
Sorry for all the questions, its just that we have considered spraying but always stuck to wiping on.
Well done, bet she was pleased.
Kev
p.s. how long did it take you for the one sofa?
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Gary
It was £60.00 for 1ltr of the dye , £7.95 for the air propellant ,£13.49 for 1ltr alcohol cleaner (still got loads left) . Job took me 5 hrs and that was me taking my time , I made £250 profit.
I could have charged more but It was the first time I was attempting this and even Andy wasn't sure how it was going to turn out . It was more about the experience and gaining the confidence to do this. There was another small two seater aswell.
Kev
I only used the QS brown that Andy mixed .I applied 1 coat let it dry then applied the 2nd coat , then I went over the more faded areas . The Dye was being absorbed more on the faded areas and seemed to sit on the surface on the other areas hence the two tone affect . Once it was dry it was fine and not speckly . There wasnt much grease left as the custy had been applying the degreaser for me a few days before I done the job so I only had 1 application to do and it looked okay.
Bob
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Cheers Bob
Although £60.00 per litre sounds a lot to me. I have a very similar aniline sofa in my garage at the moment, might give it a spray at the weekend instead of a wipe!
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Kev
Im not sure if its the normal brown aniline dye , it was called QS (quick spray)
Im sure judy will confirm when she reads the post. It would have needed another coat or two to get an all over shade but the custy told me to stop as he liked the two tone affect ;D
Bob
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Slight problem........................it's no longer analine. Or is it ?
robert m
Sorry I haven't heard about the new finish having been in Harrogate a few weeks ago!
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Bob are you saying that it dried to 1 colour?
It looks a totally different colour is that what was intended?I think it looks spectacular!!!!
Shaun
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Rob
No problem!
It is an aniline dye not a pigmented coat as you should now if you have done the course. I have said above that it is a New process that Andy has been helping me with. I sent him a scatter cushion to play with and you can see the results. Spoke to the custy tonight and his wife is over the moon !
Shaun cheers
You would need to apply a few coats to get it even. The custy wanted to go very dark to fit in with his fire place and decor.
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Bob
There was some discussion recently in which it was suggested that spraying aniline was definitely not feasible and it could only be dyed
That's what we were told on the course and has been repeated on here within the past few weeks. If it's a new process I'm just a bit peeved that we have not been kept up to date.
robert m
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Rob
I think this was the first time it has been done . Andy was not sure how it would turn out on the full suite that is why he probably didnt go into it . He will need to do a full suite himself to see how it reacts . I spoke to him on the way home from the job to let him know how it went.
Bob
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Bob
There was some discussion recently in which it was suggested that spraying aniline was definitely not feasible and it could only be dyed
That's what we were told on the course and has been repeated on here within the past few weeks. If it's a new process I'm just a bit peeved that we have not been kept up to date.
robert m
::) Mr 20 years experience ;D
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I'm not experienced in anailine work, but why can't you spray it? It's just how you apply it not whether it sits on the surface or works into the leather itself?
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What's the insinuation mr jones
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This is pics of one i did last week . The custys daughter spilled acrylic paint on it and then scrubbed it clean and removed the dye.
Bob
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Slight problem........................it's no longer analine. Or is it ?
robert m
Sorry I haven't heard about the new finish having been in Harrogate a few weeks ago!
Nothing Mr Carlton other than you showing your inexperience. :D
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Good job Bob!
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Cheers Mike
I wish I could get these jobs all the time, you enjoy doing it and the results are fantastic.
Bob
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Nobody dealt with aniline until very recently certainly not 20 years ago. I've cleaned pigmented leather for 20 years and for the first 10 of those very few cleaners would touch leather.
Analine has no protective coating, it's the top grade, least damaged hides which are just dyed, so they absorb.
Because of that they are dyed using a lot more product than would be applied by spraying. You can re finish analine with pigment bearing finish, but it then becomes non aniline.
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Welcome to the discussion Mr Jones. Inexperience ? Sure, only been cleaning leather for twenty years, but you seem to know that already.
How about you?
Have you heard about the new finish, so new, apparently, that Andy was'nt sure how it would turn out.
robert m
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Leather is a canny market for any CC. Less effort, more £/hr in most cases and analine is even better if you are prepared to invest in the skills required. It's the same as the good rug market.
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Hi Bob
Job looks good.
Just to qualify all the comments:
Aniline leather needs redyeing and should never be recoated with pigment (unless this is what the customer wants, then the risks need to be explained)
Quick spray is a pure aniline dye which is a very aggressive product to use as it soaks in very very quickly (usual aniline dyes are used in a special carrying agent to slow down the absorption and this makes them very useable by newcomers to the process)
The reason this was used was because the customer actually wanted to change the colour so a much higher intensity product was required. Putting this on by hand is impossible due to the absorption rate and it took us a lot of experimenting (still ongoing) to get the process right.
The usual aniline dye system should not be sprayed on as there is a danger that it will sit on the surface and cause problems. Bob understood all these things as we worked through the process with him.
This is the first time we have actually had this operation done outside our workshop. Controlling colour is incredibly difficult, the process is non reversible if you get any part of it wrong and we are not sure whether we would do it again as the time spent colour mixing for it and liaising was enormous. The pure dyes are very expensive (as with all quality products) and anyone wanting to do this process would need to purchase the whole range of colours to do their own colour mixing.
We will not be including it yet in our trainig course as the application process needs more refinement before we teach it to inexperienced technicians. The process is so new that we would not have discussed it during a course.
All products and processes that we sell and do have to go through thorough testing before we are happy to include them in our courses.
We do work like this with individuals when we are happy that they can do the job that they are proposing and understand the risks involved. I know Bob had a few heart stopping moments so we do not do these things lightly.
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Judy
Is there any advantage to it other than speed, seems too many negatives to bother.?
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Mike
It was nothing to do with speed. This is a different process using a different product and the two should never be confused. This was a process to resolve a prticular problem.
The wiping process may even be quicker.
The reason for spraying was that it is impossible to apply pure aniline dye by hand so to get the colour intensity another method had to be approached but it is not one we would recommend for anyone who does not fully understand the aniline dyeing process.
The standard product and method are the best to use in every day situations and if this product is sprayed there could be problems and as we do not recommend spraying our product we would not be held resposible for any problems that occured.
Kev we really would not recommend spraying (this process has been tested and we do not consider it a 'safe' method which is why we do not train that way)
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Judy
Thanks for clearing that up. I knew you could answer them better than me. Where were you last night when all the questions were coming thick and fast ;D
Bob
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Thanks Judy
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Thanks for that Judy. Not sure why it would be more appropriate to spray, but I'm sure all will be revealed soon.
robert m
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. I know Bob had a few heart stopping moments so we do not do these things lightly.
Judy
Thats a polite way of putting it. A new pair of pants was nearly needed :o
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IMO spraying aniline dye in the home is asking for trouble. Bob understandingly was Sh-nervous but did a magical job but when Mike and myself did one it was really easy to apply with lint free cloth, let's not run before we can walk.
Shaun
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Still unaware of the reason for using the spray method on this job, as nothing is apparent from the photo's.
As Shaun suggests.................why make that quantum leap, unless there was no option ?
robert m
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Shaun
The spraying in the house was not a problem as everything was covered, nothing to do with the job. The guy was a painter and decorator and sheeted every thing for me. I have learnt a lot from this that you wont get under controlled conditions.
Rob
The reason this was used was because the customer actually wanted to change the colour so a much higher intensity product was required. Putting this on by hand is impossible due to the absorption rate and it took us a lot of experimenting (still ongoing) to get the process right.
What part of Judy's reply don't you get ? You seem to have a bee in you bonnet about this !
Bob
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Expensive 250 quid profit? So cost custy 350? You can get a new suite for couple hundred more. DFS and all that jazz, seems like a waste of money.
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Is that how you sell your work to potential custys Dan :D
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Bob
What could be simpler than..................still not being aware of the reason for spraying.......... as there is nothing in the photo's that looks in any way unusual, other than it maybe being a bit shiny, in appearance.
If there was a particular problem, I'm just curious as to what the particular problem was. What could be simpler than that.
I have dealt with leather for many years and am well aware of how it's best dealt with, so am taken aback when the rules are changed, but don't know why.
Maybe you could enlighten us !
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Robert i have an aniline suite and it shines in the light like that. Like most new products there is always a different way of application so there's not a big deal about spraying it on just different that's all (you of all people should bloody know that!!!!!!!!)
Dan you can get suites for £250 also you can get them for £20 000, of course you weigh up the pros and cons of cost against replacement but this one looks as though it could be in the region of £2000.
Shaun
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Think you should check your last post Shaun!!!! and yes I certainly do know about the alternative ways of applying product to leather and possible / probable outcomes.
On this occasion the change in colour is only a couple of shades, nothing dramatic, so using the standard procedure would do the job, quickly and safely.
As far as other products / variations of products is concerned, yes spraying can be done, I've been aware of that for some time, but always consider the safest and proven method first.
peace and prosperity
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As the resident thicky I have waited a couple of days hoping someone else was going to ask this!!
Why did LTT allow someone to go to a live paying job and not be 100% sure of the outcome, with the operator and LTT both worried do death about how it was going to turn out.
Was not that long ago someone else was vilified for suggesting pretty much the same thing.
It is a bit Animal Farm!!
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I agree but I guess if Bob has been on LTT courses then you build up a profile of the person and act accordingly but yes agree with your comments whole heartidly.
Shaun
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Gary
Both Andy and myself spoke to this customer and he was made well aware of the risks and was willing to give it a go, if anything he pushed for it . I had scatter cushions to play with before the job went ahead.
If it worked he was booking a holiday If nothing could be done to it he was buying a new suite. Guess what ? hes going on holiday, well happy. The old topic was about spraying the normal dyes,not pure aniline. I have done the LLT course and worked on a lot of aniline re dye jobs . At the end of the day all parties were happy to proceed. Don't you just love people who knock new things but don't have the balls to try it.
Would I do it again ? YES. Would I charge more ? Yes
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Hi Bob
Suite looks amazing, been looking at your website - (I've got family who live in sunny renfrew!)
Been thinking about a rug cleaning service :-
How much do you charge and I the problem we've had is where do you put them to dry?
Also interested in doing a course in leather cleaning/restoration does one day course cover both?
Thanks Barbara (Course would be for hubby) I'd be up for learning how to do this but not sure how customers would feel about a female doing it?
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Gary
Both Andy and myself spoke to this customer and he was made well aware of the risks and was willing to give it a go, if anything he pushed for it . I had scatter cushions to play with before the job went ahead.
If it worked he was booking a holiday If nothing could be done to it he was buying a new suite. Guess what ? hes going on holiday, well happy. The old topic was about spraying the normal dyes,not pure aniline. I have done the LLT course and worked on a lot of aniline re dye jobs . At the end of the day all parties were happy to proceed. Don't you just love people who knock new things but don't have the balls to try it.
Would I do it again ? YES. Would I charge more ? Yes
I have seen that quoted here before!!!!
Was not knocking you or having a go, just pointing out the blindingly obvious. You do not have to be so defensive I am glad you did the job and it turned out well and I hope you get hundreds more.
But there is an inconsistency that I felt needed pointing out just to give a balance.
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Hi Barbara
thanks ;D
Price for rug cleaning will vary depending on Type,size, distance. Drying is done in the garage they are hung and blow dried. leather training is good to do and you will get a lot out of it. They don't cover all in the one day you are better doing a 2 day course.
Where in renfrew do your family stay? I'm in Dean Park
Gary
I now have another new skill to add to my business, and when other guys walk away from the job I will be glad to step in and take the customers money. Why people aren't discussing it in a positive way is beyond me.
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You don't understand, I am not being negative, I think the suite looks great.
You could have sprayed it with Marmite for all I care, if you are happy and the customer is happy that is what it is all about.
I just don't see the difference in what PM was doing and this, one was slaughtered and one is getting a slap on the back for giving it a go.
Is it OK for some companies to experiment and not others ???
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Gary
The last thread was about spraying normal aniline dyes to replenish colour loss. Wiping on does the job for that purpose . This was a totally different case using pure aniline dye to get the effect the customer was looking for IE a totally different, darker colour. Judy has already explained this .It seems you don't seen to understand the difference.What is to stop people experimenting on their own, if it works then so be it either keep it to your self or share the info.
Bob
P.s. I was speaking to PM the other day about this when I was buying a air compressor from him.
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I must admit I never read Judy's post fully or would not have repeated myself and the point would have been taken. Nonetheless, posting what appears to be a straightforward change of colour, of only a couple of shades, without a bit more detail about, what the customer wanted caused, some confusion in some peoples minds.
Incidentally Bob, I've been experimenting for many years, but I've been LUCKY. Not something I'd recommend to everyone. Nothing to do with " having balls "just an enquiring mind and insatiable curiousity.
I'm currently carrying out a number of trials involving leather.
robert m
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Rob
Glad were getting somewhere. What surprises me is that you only live down the road from me . I even pop into the shop next door to you when I'm in BOW. If you are that curious why not pick up a phone and ask to meet up and share info, I'm sure I could learn more from you than the other way round. I still have some of the Dye and the scatter cushion. I don't see you as competition even though we work the same area.Over to you.
Bob
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Will I take that as a no then Rob ? ::)
Maybe you see me as competition.
Bob
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Haud on Bob, never saw this post till 10 minutes ago, I'd be happy to meet you and discuss leather, I've had more scares with leather, mostly years ago, when nobody else would touch it .
I was suggesting leather was a viable market about one and a half to two years ago when most people had never cleaned leather and even claimed there was no market.
robert
Competition? Something I never think about.
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Rob
My contact details are on my site.
Bob