Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Philip Hanson on January 29, 2005, 07:20:47 pm
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After many weeks of preparation, I'm pleased to say
that Professional Window Cleaner Magazine has now gone to press.
The first issue will be mailed in just a few days.
If you have filled in an info request form, you'll receive the first issue free of charge.
If not, click HERE (http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/Info%20form.html) and fill it in.
If you enjoy the first issue, become a subscriber.
Subscription costs £25 for the year (6 issues).
It is now possible to subscribe online:
www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk (http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk)
-Philip
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;) Good luck,
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Phil
If we subscribe to your magazine will you have an online payment available
Paul
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After many weeks of preparation,
Months Phil, months.
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Phil
If we subscribe to your magazine will you have an online payment available
Paul
Hello Paul,
Yes, actually it is already possible to subscribe online.
http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/subscribe.html
-Philip
PS Thanks Terry, and Karl, it will be worth the wait!
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I've ordered the first copy and it's free.
Seems daft not to.
Go on.............. do the same.
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JUST GOT IN 1sT COPY OF PROFESSIONAL WINDOW CLEANER ON THE DOOR MAT ;D :D
TEL BOY ;)
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I see they have a picture of my van on page 30 !?!?!?!?
I've seen it all now.......
Tim
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I gave some photos to Phil not sure if his used them or not as i anit got my copy yet, fingers crossed that be here tomorrow.
Alot of people have been knocking it before it even come out, Shame on you. Cant wait to see it and by going what i hear already sounds to be a winner :)
Going to be sending in my £25 for a Years Subs once i get my freebie that why over the year i can judge it better for myself.
Well Done Phil.
All the best
Justin
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Good mag!!
Much better than envisaged, although i suspect alot will moan about ionics/bwca involvment ::) but i think this adds to the professional image.
Keep it up Phil!!!
Paul
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:) We got ours today too...a darned good read...I look forward to seeing it grow...well done all, and especially Mr Hanson and Mr Mawlem.....out of interest, once we have the NVQ2 qualification.....how would one go about getting the internal verifier or assesor qualification, for in house training within your own company ?...or is this not possible?
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hi there,
anything that improves the standing of the cleaning industry, and the trades within in it, are a great benefit to the industry in general
regards
martin
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:) We got ours today too...a darned good read...I look forward to seeing it grow...well done all, and especially Mr Hanson and Mr Mawlem.....out of interest, once we have the NVQ2 qualification.....how would one go about getting the internal verifier or assesor qualification, for in house training within your own company ?...or is this not possible?
As i understand it if you become an a1 assessor you can then automatically become an internal verifier if you are a director of the company suppling the trade that you are training in. I am doing A1 assessor at the moment so maybe i could give training/assessment in future.
Paul
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I look forward to my Copy, and of course will Judge myself
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Got my copy today, first impressions are good.
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Many thanks for your good wishes.
I am very pleased that the generel feedback I've seen so far has been positive, and that you all seem to like the magazine.
I am also encouraged by some comments from members here and other forums. All of this highlights the fact that our industry is becomming more professional, and values resources that help to move things forward.
I notice some haven't yet got their copy of the magazine - don't worry, it is on its way to you. Whenever you 'bulk' mail anything, it tends to be done in batches and therefore delivery times can vary quite a bit. Frustrating, I know, but you should have it very soon. (Having dealt with the royal mail quite a bit lately, frustration is now something I'm getting used to)
When you have had a chance to read the magazine, and decide f you like it or not, please do email me with your comments. I have had some very good suggestions so far for future issues, some of which I will definately be taking up, eg:
-A letters page
-A problems page
Keep your suggestions coming (by email I mean, not on the forum) remember this is your industry, and the magazine's job is to provide information that you are interested in.
If you do like the magazine and want to see it continue, then I ask you to give me the support I need by subscribing. I'm sure I don't need to explain how a resource like PWC will only be a success if it is properly supported. I think we really do need a publication for our industry, and I am prepared to continue to research and publish articles for as long as get the support I need from you window cleaners in the industry. What a shame it would be for the industry if a new initative like this couldn't continue because of lack of support. But I feel sure that there are enough window cleaners with a professional attitude to make it a success.
Once again, thank you for your encouraging words, and I really do hope you enjoy the magazine for a long time to come.
-Philip
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No problems from this end Phil...well done....and keep going.
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Did you put my issue on one of the fast donkeys?
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Am still waiting for my copy...............
I gave my details on line - I hope it went through ok.
It would be just my luck that mine was the one that went wrong.
But ... I am an optomist ... I think... but there again, I'm not sure.
I'm also decisive, I think.
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Got my copy today VERY impressed with professional image
and quality of brochure. How did Andy get front cover ;)
Only joking Andy good :) on ya Nice to see this sort of
available to all.
keith
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Got mine today and very impressed, The artical on the TWHD was of special intrest to me and cleared up the confusion i had.
Good luck for the future Phil.
taking out subscription A S A P
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Got mine today
FIRST CLASS!!!!!!!!
Just one question Phillip
How the heck do you find time to clean windows?
Neil
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WELL IMPRESSED!......ESPECIALEY THE BIT ABOUT THE NEW REGS.
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Very good mag Phil - I understand that as a first edition it needed to be heavily sponsored by suppliers etc and look forward to seeing it stand on its own two feet and reflecting a wider view of the industry.
I'm subscribing anyway.
Malc
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Decent mag! Very well presented.
Ian
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Got mine today. Very classy with a lot of interesting stuff.
I will be subscribing for sure.
One thing though, it seems to, in the main, concentrate on WFP's.
How about articles about those of us that still use mops and squeegies and tread the rungs around suburbier?
I am not complaining though. I've yet to read it all.
I take my hat off to the man who got it going and I do know that the advertising companies have a say in what goes into the mag.
All in all and from me, a big thumbs up.
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I started 20yrs ago and have allways felt, the NFMWC should have put a lot more in their window talk mag to help in all aspects of window cleaning. :'( But hopefully now we have a mag that will help old and new to develope in all aspects of window cleaning, including safety ect. :)
Good job. :)
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;) Well put together mag quite a lot of thought went into this,good work phil
and all that was Involved ;) be interesting what the coming months bring.
but very well done all the same. ;)
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got my copy yesterday and it looks very impresive obviously alot of thought, time, and effort went into this first issue and deserves our support for the future. Well done Phill and all involved.
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Have recieved the first copy of the magazine & must say that we are impressed. WELL DONE
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Phil
Did you say a Problems page?
I have this terrible problem with spots....
It really puts the girls off ;D
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I'm afraid you are beyond my help
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Great job on the magazine Phil
I have not yet read it all but from what i have read im impressed with so i have just subscribed for the year.
Paul
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Hi Philip
My copy eventually landed on my desk this morning and I have to say that I think it is excellent!
It is very informative, has some first class features, well balanced advertising and stands up against any other trade magazine out there!
I think you deserve all the praise you get - you've clearly put a lot of time and effort into it and I can't see why anyone would not think it is exceptional value for money at just £25 per year.
I hope others give you the support you need for it to continue.
Well done!
Mike
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I want to suscribe to it, but am really lazy when it comes to filling in forms and cheques. Wouldn't it be great if there were an icon around this site that I could just click on and then input my card details?
Just an idea!
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You CAN subscribe instantly online:
http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/subscribe.html (http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/subscribe.html)
Click on the button that says
"Click Here to Subscribe Online Now"
Then put your name, address and card details in.
And you're done
-Philip
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I am still awaiting my copy here in Spain, is it likey to make its way here? 8)
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Not had a copy of this delivered for a while.
Is it still out,
Dean.
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Didn't realise that this was an old topic at first and thought that here had been a relaunch. There have been a few comments on here that may or may not be true, one was that a big shot helped put it on a business footing but demanded the founder share the risk, which for most of us would mean putting the house on the line. There was another comment about someone selling double glazing in a supermarket entrance......
So basicaly apart from repeating these comments I don't know either.
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well done guys for getting the mag together
but i will not subscribe £25.00
jerry
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had one many months ago good magazine
but i will not subscribe £25.00 and for that reason im out ! ;D
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Didn't realise that this was an old topic at first and thought that here had been a relaunch. There have been a few comments on here that may or may not be true, one was that a big shot helped put it on a business footing but demanded the founder share the risk, which for most of us would mean putting the house on the line. There was another comment about someone selling double glazing in a supermarket entrance......
So basicaly apart from repeating these comments I don't know either.
the story of how the mag happened to fall into the clutches of the dark side are common knowledge, i belive philip explained what happened at the time
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Well going by what Toss said! Mr Hanson is now working in a Supermarket :o ;D
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Well going by what Toss said!
I do hope that was a typo. It's Tosh, not Toss!
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Well going by what Toss said!
I do hope that was a typo. It's Tosh, not Toss!
Well, I dunno Tossh.....? ;D
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Quote from: Poleman on Today at 01:15:43pm
Well going by what Toss said!
Tosh said
I do hope that was a typo. It's Tosh, not Toss!
That made my day ;D ;D ;D ;D
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i cannot belive philip is working in a supermarket now, he knows all you need to buy is a ironics machine and you instantly earn 2 K a week ;) ;) ;)
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I don't think Philip is actually working for a Supermarket, but I did read on this forum that he was seen in a Supermarket selling double glazing; at the door.
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Im surprised he did not go back to window cleaning.
But i don't think he did it for long when he did clean windows anyway.
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I think he is still here but has taken the 5th amendment
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I think he is still here but has taken the 5th amendment
The right to bare arms?
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no the right to not speak
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www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
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might have had a clause in his contract
his soul
no sorry i meant he had to keep quiet about the whole thing
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no the right to not speak
I know, I know; I'm joking and I've got bare arms in my avatar too!
You can't help feeling sorry for poor Philip though.
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Tosh
I feel sorry for no-one not even you lol.
At least the lad had a go, you cant put anyone down for trying.
Every enterpeneur has failed somewhere along the line. no doubt he will make a success of himself elsewhere.
Funny thing the window cleaning world, very cloak and dagger , lots of backstabbing and paranoia going on, maybe i should write a book
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Funny thing the window cleaning world, very cloak and dagger , lots of backstabbing and paranoia going on, maybe i should write a book
No, Dave, it would be a boring one, and I'd need to help you with the spelling 'n' stuff.
Stick to shining those windows, mate.
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Phil, have you considered an online versions of the magazine as it would be a lot cheaper to produce and instantly downloadable.
Just a thought
Michael
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A good thought too G&M , so can we take it from the know but can't say comments that the publication, or the original concept no longer exists?
I thought the bit about the soul was funny Matt, but the kit is good and the money made is on a par, so it is a little bitter of us to be too critical.
I've always given Phil a hard time on here because i found him long winded (from an editor this drives me mad), but I thought the mag etc was of a very high standard. Two fella's on here had a go and even with lots of support from fellow posters were unable to put together even a mock issue, and managed to put off some potential advertisers before they had even started.So it is a very difficult thing to do.
I suppose the problems are editorial- finding enought interesting stuff every issue without cramming it with only one supplier; being honest and allowing people a say without offending advertisers, and then from the business end something that shifts volume and interests Joe Shrim isn't the same mag as maybe someone with a few vans and wanting to know how service ceo works would want to read.
Of course a pretty girl on the front always helps.
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A good thought too G&M , so can we take it from the know but can't say comments that the publication, or the original concept no longer exists?
I thought the bit about the soul was funny Matt, but the kit is good and the money made is on a par, so it is a little bitter of us to be too critical.
Two fella's on here had a go and even with lots of support from fellow posters were unable to put together even a mock issue, and managed to put off some potential advertisers before they had even started. So it is a very difficult thing to do.
Wrong Discount Just because I haven't posted anything for a while about it does not mean nothing has been going on. The project is still very much alive and progress has been made. The whole reason we haven't shown you anything is because before we have been making sure that everything was thought out and that we don't end up rushing out the first issue, putting out something below standard and ending up out of our depth although you would love that wouldn't you as you seem to want us to fail. As for advertisers who did we put off? If you are talking about Peter Fogwill then what actually happened was he said he wouldn't submit his products for review unless I would guarantee that the review only contained the positive points about the product and that no mention of negative aspects of a product were mentioned. Thats his choice - maybe he lacks confidence in his products I don't know but to be honest I would never want to review a product with these restrictions in place anyway as I feel that would be doing a dis-service to our readers. We don't want to do hatchet jobs on anyone but if there was a genuine shortcoming then we would like the option to mention it. Look at Alex Gardiner when he hears a bit of negative feedback does he throw his toys out of the pram? No, what he does is he looks at a problem/shortcoming and then tries to come up with improvements/solutions. This is how is should be IMO and thats the kind of people we want to work with, not people who are going to censor us. Anyway back to the magazine. An announcement will be made shortly regarding development news. This is a project that wont be rushed. Don't write us off yet, I will agree with you about one thing. It's not as easy as you think ;)
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Not as easy as I think?
We all said how tough it was, and I believe peter gave some excellent advice and real life examples of how a similar real life publication had fared and what the problems had been.
You and your oppo are forever puting your foot in it and upsetting people and i can't think of anyone with a worse record for gaffes on here.True, you are not a terminal windbag drunk on your own editorialising, but you are not succinct, nor overly bright either.
I think that this thread is testimony that some very talented people with all the brains and resources in the world gave this a very good shot and still couldn't pull it off.
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Gaffes, who me? You must be joking and I certainly cant think of anyone I have upset. I am also quite offended that you seem to be accusing me of being thick now. This is what I meant, you seem hellbent on me failing. One of the reasons I stopped mentioning the development of the magazine was because of your constant negativity towards the project. I don't mind constructive feedback and I your welcome to your opinions but if you are just going to bad mouth me why would I want to listen to you? The word troll springs to mind.......
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You know the main gaffe I mean, and no it wasn't you, agreed, but as in the above first post from you, you felt the need to have another poke at a potetial advertiser. In your next post you call me a troll.
If you are going to be an editor, and perhaps hate me and everything i stand for, you have to find a more diplomatic way of saying it. A good example would be Alex, who hardly seems to offend anyone (aside from jealousy), and to be fair Peter too. Dave st Ives lets slip good info without contention or going near libel. I think you could pick a fight with Ghandi.
To broaden the argument a little Matt's comment, that if a product was s=== he would say so, is not the sort of review you would want, or even be able to print.
Sorry if you see all this as constant negativity, i'm sure if I was on your board I could hammer you into shape, but even if the mag was brilliant most of us now believe that it has been proved that this can't work as a business.
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Anyway cheer up, we are only shooting hot air, it's only opinions!
One day you'll say "you laughted when I said I was going to be an editor. You are not laughing now!!!"
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You may be right ewan, if the mag is still going and has proved a success with people happy to pay the cover price then you are.
But this is a thread first started in 2005, and lots must have happened since. Dave said he could write a book didn't he?
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Thats fair enough discount, I wasn't having a poke at anyone I was just stating the facts regarding the comment you made. Yes I called you a troll basically because you called me thick. I don't hate you in fact I think that some of the advice you give is very good it's just sometimes you seem to like to have a go at me. Like I said above when your like that why would I want to listen to you. As for your comment about being more diplomatic fair enough. I didn't realise I was coming across that way to you. I will try to be more diplomatic in future.
The reviews, this has always been an issue and maybe some have the wrong impression. I personally want the reviews to be as truthful as they can be, no way do we want a review that justs says a product is *hit. What are the reasons it's so bad? what could be improved? If these points were raised then the review could be quite useful for both the readers and the manufacturer. But as you say without that we would be left with a useless review that we wouldn't want or be able to print. By the same token we don't want to review products where we are told we can only print good things even if the product was *hit. I refuse to put my name to a review where I have to lie just to keep the manufacturer happy. That was the point I was trying to make earlier.
Now the gaffe you refer too. That was nothing to do with me or the magazine and if you think back I agreed with you that what sanity did was wrong. I wish he had never done it and could understand that it would reflect badly on the Magazine if you have a co-editor making those comments. However he did admit it was wrong and I know that he deeply regrets doing it. In fact if you look you'll see he hasn't been back on here since his apology. We have spoken about what happened and although he isn't on here now he is still involved in the production side of the magazine however, we have agreed that he will take a role behind the scenes and I will do the public side of it.
Finally the point about it not working as a business. I know it can. Remember I am not out to make loads of money from it as long as it covers it's costs then thats fine. If I make a small profit then even better but this magazine isn't intended to be something that makes me bucket loads of money and is not going to be my only business and as long as it does not lose money then thats fine by me.
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Anyway cheer up, we are only shooting hot air, it's only opinions!
One day you'll say "you laughted when I said I was going to be an editor. You are not laughing now!!!"
I know what you mean!!! and thats what I meant when I said I look forward to proving you wrong ;)
You may be right ewan, if the mag is still going and has proved a success with people happy to pay the cover price then you are.
But this is a thread first started in 2005, and lots must have happened since. Dave said he could write a book didn't he?
I think that PWC was a failure for two reasons: 1. They tried to run before they could walk and then when they had to sell out to ionics they destroyed thw original concept of it.
2. It was run as a stand alone business on commercial terms. As I explained above the way I plan to do it doesn't make this assumption and we are not just in it for the money. I certainly would never imagine the magazine to make me a million and certainly wouldn't consider launching it as my only business. The fact is there is only a limited market for the mag so it would be foolish to make an assumption that it could be run as a full scale business especially after seeing what happened with PWC. However it could pay for itself and bring something to the window cleaning world. As long as it breaks even I am happy.
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Well going by what Toss said!
I do hope that was a typo. It's Tosh, not Toss!
Lol whoops sorry ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I mean Tosh ;)
Andy
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Was it really 3 and a half years ago that started this thread? How time flies.
I have been having a good little chuckle about rumors of me working in a supermarket or selling double glazing. Let me put that one to bed straight away; if I ever move away from doing the magazine or working with the BWCA, there will only be one job I ever do, and that is (of course) window cleaning! I've never worked in a supermarket, never had anything to do with double glazing, (other than cleaning it.)
I read the thread the thread about another window cleaning magazine by WCE and someone else, and I can say this: it takes a great deal of guts and determination for anyone to get off their backside and actually do something rather than simply criticise from the sidelines. If a couple of members on here have done that then well done to them, and if it helps the window cleaning industry, then thats got to be welcomed. There is a great shortage of people who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so good for them!
And to you guys, here's my advice:(and I mean it with your best interests sincerely at heart!):
Producing a magazine is more time consuming than you could ever imagine. My opinion is that unless you make enough money from the sales and advertising to cover the costs AND make a profit large enough to cover a decent salary for you both, then seriously guys, don't do it, you will honestly rue the day!
Although you may have done some costings already, here's what you need to do: double or triple them. There is nothing cheap about producing a magazine. Everything (and I do mean everything) costs 2 or 3 times what you think it will, and takes 3 times as long.
And lastly, and most importantly, forget all about what people say on forums. You may have had some interest on here, and that's great, (I remember the interest in PWC when I first came up with the idea) but window cleaners in general are simply not prepared to pay for a magazine, no matter how good it is. I hate to say it, but they just don't care enough about the trade.
You'd probably be lucky to get 20 subscribers from a forum like this. As well as the fact that that means a low income from subscriptions, no advertiser is ever going to pay to advertise to a circulation of less than 2,000, so again income is hit.
My opinion is that a window cleaning magazine is only possible here in Britain if it is paid for by some other means than subscriptions and advertising. That is why PWC is now the magazine of the BWCA, and is free of charge. (And hence, I don't consider a new magazine to be in competition)
Having said that, if you want to do this as a small project that you just want to put a newsletter-type thing together and send out to a small group of interested friends, and you all pitch in on the costs, then that's a good idea that could work. (Except that eventually you'll realise that this forum fills that need better than any publication could!)
Whatever you decide, I genuinely wish you the best. After all, I have been there, and (unlike anybody else on here) I know exactly what its like.
As for me, well its time for me to disappear from forums again for another three years. But I'll be at the Cleaning Show next Spring on the BWCA stand if you want to come and say hello. And there'll be another issue of PWC out before then too.
-Philip
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Philip,
Welcome back. A true word in every sense. Have been trying to do one up here for the SLWCN but keeps on changing.
When are you going to do an article on licensing as per website! ;) ;D
Not to mind we have already signed up for a couple of magazines and more banging on our door.
All the best.
Doug
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Well that is quite funny, but how were we to know, no one volunteered the info that the mag was still going. Mark Twain said that reports of his death had been exaggerated too.
I was the only one that stuck up for you Phil!!
So, if this magazine is free, how do we go about getting a copy?
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Well that is quite funny, but how were we to know, no one volunteered the info that the mag was still going. Mark Twain said that reports of his death had been exaggerated too.
I was the only one that stuck up for you Phil!!
So, if this magazine is free, how do we go about getting a copy?
Go to the site, and request to be sent a copy.. ive done it but not recieved anything yet
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Was it really 3 and a half years ago that started this thread? How time flies.
I have been having a good little chuckle about rumors of me working in a supermarket or selling double glazing.
-Philip
Philip,
Sorry, fella, but I started that rumour and kept it going; I thought it was funny when other members here were regurgitating it and I just couldn't help myself and reinforced the said rubbish!
I could see that you'd often look on this site, so I was hoping for a 'bite' from you! ;D
Anyway, I take it the Cleaning Show is at the Birmingham NEC? I'll be there; so you can give me a good 'slap' if I'm brave enough to say 'Hello'.
Tosh.
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I suppose chris, but listening to what Phil said his mag sounds like it's product rather than issue led. And as mentioned earlier reviews of service ceo and it's benefits, or the new scudo van as a wc mount etc don't seem on the radar, as don't many of the hot topic threads on here.
I believe DA makes the point that several mags have run the scotland licence story and it's surrounding issues but not this one. You'd have thought that any industry mag worth it's salt would make that a cover story?
Tosh. It was a good story, aided by someone (not me) saying that as part of the deal and to show equal commitment he had to put his house on the line.Along with the funny comment from Matt about the nature of the contract and the forfeit.The idea that he had lost his house, and was selling double glazing was very neatly rounded. You should jack this game and write a couple of corrie episodes.
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and to show equal commitment he had to put his house on the line.
Actually, I think this part is true. I remember a post from Craig Mawlam (owner of BWCA) saying this.
Honest.
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And I think Philips post backs up my last post.
...There is a great shortage of people who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so good for them!
-Philip
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perhaps the people who paid the subscribtion like me and got nothing will get a mag Phillip
Idealrob
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Was it really 3 and a half years ago that started this thread? How time flies.
I have been having a good little chuckle about rumors of me working in a supermarket or selling double glazing. Let me put that one to bed straight away; if I ever move away from doing the magazine or working with the BWCA, there will only be one job I ever do, and that is (of course) window cleaning! I've never worked in a supermarket, never had anything to do with double glazing, (other than cleaning it.)
I read the thread the thread about another window cleaning magazine by WCE and someone else, and I can say this: it takes a great deal of guts and determination for anyone to get off their backside and actually do something rather than simply criticise from the sidelines. If a couple of members on here have done that then well done to them, and if it helps the window cleaning industry, then thats got to be welcomed. There is a great shortage of people who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so good for them!
And to you guys, here's my advice:(and I mean it with your best interests sincerely at heart!):
Producing a magazine is more time consuming than you could ever imagine. My opinion is that unless you make enough money from the sales and advertising to cover the costs AND make a profit large enough to cover a decent salary for you both, then seriously guys, don't do it, you will honestly rue the day!
Although you may have done some costings already, here's what you need to do: double or triple them. There is nothing cheap about producing a magazine. Everything (and I do mean everything) costs 2 or 3 times what you think it will, and takes 3 times as long.
And lastly, and most importantly, forget all about what people say on forums. You may have had some interest on here, and that's great, (I remember the interest in PWC when I first came up with the idea) but window cleaners in general are simply not prepared to pay for a magazine, no matter how good it is. I hate to say it, but they just don't care enough about the trade.
You'd probably be lucky to get 20 subscribers from a forum like this. As well as the fact that that means a low income from subscriptions, no advertiser is ever going to pay to advertise to a circulation of less than 2,000, so again income is hit.
My opinion is that a window cleaning magazine is only possible here in Britain if it is paid for by some other means than subscriptions and advertising. That is why PWC is now the magazine of the BWCA, and is free of charge. (And hence, I don't consider a new magazine to be in competition)
Having said that, if you want to do this as a small project that you just want to put a newsletter-type thing together and send out to a small group of interested friends, and you all pitch in on the costs, then that's a good idea that could work. (Except that eventually you'll realise that this forum fills that need better than any publication could!)
Whatever you decide, I genuinely wish you the best. After all, I have been there, and (unlike anybody else on here) I know exactly what its like.
As for me, well its time for me to disappear from forums again for another three years. But I'll be at the Cleaning Show next Spring on the BWCA stand if you want to come and say hello. And there'll be another issue of PWC out before then too.
-Philip
Philip.
Do you think it could be viable if produced as an online magazine?
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A good thought too G&M , so can we take it from the know but can't say comments that the publication, or the original concept no longer exists?
I thought the bit about the soul was funny Matt, but the kit is good and the money made is on a par, so it is a little bitter of us to be too critical.
Two fella's on here had a go and even with lots of support from fellow posters were unable to put together even a mock issue, and managed to put off some potential advertisers before they had even started. So it is a very difficult thing to do.
As for advertisers who did we put off? If you are talking about Peter Fogwill then what actually happened was he said he wouldn't submit his products for review unless I would guarantee that the review only contained the positive points about the product and that no mention of negative aspects of a product were mentioned. Thats his choice - maybe he lacks confidence in his products I don't know but to be honest I would never want to review a product with these restrictions in place anyway as I feel that would be doing a dis-service to our readers. We don't want to do hatchet jobs on anyone but if there was a genuine shortcoming then we would like the option to mention it. Look at Alex Gardiner when he hears a bit of negative feedback does he throw his toys out of the pram? No, what he does is he looks at a problem/shortcoming and then tries to come up with improvements/solutions. This is how is should be IMO and thats the kind of people we want to work with, not people who are going to censor us. Anyway back to the magazine. An announcement will be made shortly regarding development news. This is a project that wont be rushed. Don't write us off yet, I will agree with you about one thing. It's not as easy as you think ;)
WCE you said I said the following.
"he said he wouldn't submit his products for review unless I would guarantee that the review only contained the positive points about the product and that no mention of negative aspects of a product were mentioned."
Could you post a link to where I said that please? This will give you some practice because no doubt you will get a lot of this, with you being an editor of a magazine.
You hadn't put me off, but you certainly have now, typical of the press, taking something and twisting it for your own ends. What utter rubbish. You can't go about quoting things that are not true, what message are you sending out to your prospective customers? I know where my free copy will be going.
Peter
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Who Dragged this up ::) I just filled the form in Doh ;D
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Me sorry, I just noticed what was said and couldn't not respond. Way out of order.
For anyone reading the topic my quote was supposed to have came from, you will see I was only trying to help with a little constructive criticism.
Peter
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I honestly thought the PWC mag was dead & buried. All my emails have been unanswered & the forum seems to be dead.
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Karl
Why not just email Phil at Ionincs, his office is there
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I did do on numerous ocassions. I think I'm still owed another 12 issues of PWC that never came out. Yet bwca still sent me subscription notices & yet to see another issue. I know that they don't want bad publicity - they should have thought of that when they took my money.
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A good thought too G&M , so can we take it from the know but can't say comments that the publication, or the original concept no longer exists?
I thought the bit about the soul was funny Matt, but the kit is good and the money made is on a par, so it is a little bitter of us to be too critical.
Two fella's on here had a go and even with lots of support from fellow posters were unable to put together even a mock issue, and managed to put off some potential advertisers before they had even started. So it is a very difficult thing to do.
As for advertisers who did we put off? If you are talking about Peter Fogwill then what actually happened was he said he wouldn't submit his products for review unless I would guarantee that the review only contained the positive points about the product and that no mention of negative aspects of a product were mentioned. Thats his choice - maybe he lacks confidence in his products I don't know but to be honest I would never want to review a product with these restrictions in place anyway as I feel that would be doing a dis-service to our readers. We don't want to do hatchet jobs on anyone but if there was a genuine shortcoming then we would like the option to mention it. Look at Alex Gardiner when he hears a bit of negative feedback does he throw his toys out of the pram? No, what he does is he looks at a problem/shortcoming and then tries to come up with improvements/solutions. This is how is should be IMO and thats the kind of people we want to work with, not people who are going to censor us. Anyway back to the magazine. An announcement will be made shortly regarding development news. This is a project that wont be rushed. Don't write us off yet, I will agree with you about one thing. It's not as easy as you think ;)
WCE you said I said the following.
"he said he wouldn't submit his products for review unless I would guarantee that the review only contained the positive points about the product and that no mention of negative aspects of a product were mentioned."
Could you post a link to where I said that please? This will give you some practice because no doubt you will get a lot of this, with you being an editor of a magazine.
You hadn't put me off, but you certainly have now, typical of the press, taking something and twisting it for your own ends. What utter rubbish. You can't go about quoting things that are not true, what message are you sending out to your prospective customers? I know where my free copy will be going.
Peter
Right Peter, Lets get something clear What you have quoted me on, to be honest that was my take of it. You made it quite clear that you didn't want anyone writing reviews of your products unless you read them first and gave them the ok, then in my eyes you made it quite clear that if the reviewers opinion wasn't the same as yours then you wouldn't want the article published. Don't get me wrong no one in their right mind would want a review to be published that just said their product was total pants but you gave me the impression that if you had a review which was 99% positive and 1% negative ten you wouldn't want it published because of the 1% negative. This is an example of the type of review I mean - it's taken from pro mobile magazine (which is the mobile disco equivalent to what I am trying create (in case you are wondering what this has to do with anything I also run an entertainments agency) and one of their reviews about a new disco light : "...........The little plastic turn locks on the end of the brackets are also a little brittle and prone to cracking. I run 16 of these lights and 9 of them have cracked so I now have to use a spanner to lock the bars into position. This light is a budget product but when you take into consideration the stress and strain that these locking handles have on them this is something for the ADJ design team to reconsider when they release a refreshed model. Apart from this the product is excellent" And that was a product from a company that sponsors the magazine. The rest of the review was positive but in the reviewers eyes this part needed reworking. I ask my original question again would you let that review run? I took it that you didn't want a review of your product that was along those lines, maybe I misunderstood. That was my point in my reply to discount. Way out of order.
For anyone reading the topic my quote was supposed to have came from, you will see I was only trying to help with a little constructive criticism.
Peter
No one quoted you though! I just replied to discount and gave him my take on how I saw things. We want to write reviews simple as that. You think we want to do a hatchet job or something and don't trust us. Therefore unless we let you approve the review it wouldn't get published - thats what you pretty much said wasn't it - The topic's here: read it back and tell me do you think that I was unfair in my conclusions? www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=54077.200
I don't think I was HOWEVER!!!, on reflection after reading what I wrote, I can see that see that I should of worded what I said a bit better and that maybe you would read it and take it the wrong way. For that I apologize and assure you that wasn't the intention. So sorry for any offence caused in that respect. Furthermore, I wish to point out to you that your input into the magazine was (and still is) much appreciated. It may not of come across this way but the advice that you gave regarding reviews was taken on board and has helped guide the magazine along it's journey. I do hope that you accept my apology and continue to contribute to the development of this magazine. Just to clarify we dont want to stitch anyone up and we wont be doing hatchet jobs on companies who submit their products for review - something I hope you will be part of ;)
Finally on a personal note - It's good to see you back on the forum and getting back on your feet after the flood. My parents went through the same in the July 07 Floods so I know what the disruption etc is like It takes a long time for things to return to normal and is difficult for anyone to go through. Glad to hear there is some light at the end of the tunnel ;)
Peter the last thing I will say is that I do feel that maybe we have misunderstood each other and got off on the wrong foot and that is not what I want! I do hope we can move on from this with a new understanding of each other and that i never meant you any offence.
Best wishes
Pete
WCE
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I did do on numerous ocassions. I think I'm still owed another 12 issues of PWC that never came out. Yet bwca still sent me subscription notices & yet to see another issue. I know that they don't want bad publicity - they should have thought of that when they took my money.
Karl I believe that you will find that PWC has become the mag of the BWCA and is now free. However I cant help you with the fact that you you never received the subscription issues as Phill has never answered that question however (on a personal note) I have noticed that people who originally subscribed to PWC seem to be amongst those who never get it however, those of us who who are on one companies mailing list get them anyway without asking ;D ;D ;)
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The last one I had was issue 10, that was 2007. Have there been more since?
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The last one I had was issue 10, that was 2007. Have there been more since?
What was in it. The last one I had was a safety issue
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"Poles on trial" on wfp's.
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If it is the one I am thinking of there has been one since - the safety issue! That took ages to come along! Maybe now they are free they are reducing the frequency of the issues? I haven't seen one for about six months now!
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Any more news on pole dancer?
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Did they not do a issue for Windex
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Any more news on pole dancer?
LOL Thats not what I meant but fuuny Though ;) ;D
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WCE apology accepted.
What I was trying to find out in the post you mentioned was how the review was carried out , who was carrying it out etc, I only said I wouldn't be happy in the example I gave with a negative feedback when it was not warranted.
Going back to that example of my pole and James. Supposing you were doing a review of my clamp-less pole and I knew from experience that it take a little getting used to as it is a completely new way of working. I would stipulate that the pole would have to be used enough to get used to that way of working, that would be the only fair way in this instance to review the product. It would be no use giving it to someone who is going to try it on a couple of windows and because it didn't stay up, because they didn't know how it worked, they put it down and gave a bad review. Ideally if it was one of my products being review I would like to be there making sure that they knew what they were doing with it, or at least someone else was there who knew what they were doing.
BTW I have had people who have actually bought the pole and been on the phone telling me there is no clamps on it, and nothing to keep it up.
Peter
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WCE apology accepted.
What I was trying to find out in the post you mentioned was how the review was carried out , who was carrying it out etc, I only said I wouldn't be happy in the example I gave with a negative feedback when it was not warranted.
Going back to that example of my pole and James. Supposing you were doing a review of my clamp-less pole and I knew from experience that it take a little getting used to as it is a completely new way of working. I would stipulate that the pole would have to be used enough to get used to that way of working, that would be the only fair way in this instance to review the product. It would be no use giving it to someone who is going to try it on a couple of windows and because it didn't stay up, because they didn't know how it worked, they put it down and gave a bad review. Ideally if it was one of my products being review I would like to be there making sure that they knew what they were doing with it, or at least someone else was there who knew what they were doing.
BTW I have had people who have actually bought the pole and been on the phone telling me there is no clamps on it, and nothing to keep it up.
Peter
Thats Fair enough regarding the pole and makes sense to me If we were to review your pole and you said look this is a new concept it takes a bit of getting used to then we would be happy to follow your guidelines for the review after all who knows their products best? Now we have an understanding I look forward to working with you in the future.
As for people phoning you up about the lack of clamps on a clampless pole - You just couldn't make it up lol ;)
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are rumours right that the next mag will include a " test " on hot water systems, afterall thats the next threat, when the lightweight poles came out, the next mag a review was done of poles with the exclusion of the lightweight poles as they were not fit for the purpose ::) ::) ::)
can we see pictures of a L 5 blowing up in a van