Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: david_green on August 09, 2008, 11:45:20 am
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Perhaps a question for John Kelly.
Is Nemesis effective against fleas?
Regards
David Green
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Collidal cleaning solutions can be detrimental to insects as they degrease their limb joints causing them to die. However I wouldn't advocate their use excusively as an insecticide. Guaranteed results are better achieved with a specified insecticide such as Permethrin.
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I was under the understanding that colloids break apart the connective tissues of small insects and arachnids, so I suppose that's pretty much the same thing as John says.
I got called out to a "Flea" job a couple of days ago. I knew as soon as they said that on the phone that they weren't "Fleas". Sure enough there they were up the corner, moth larvae.
Have you actually seen this infestation? Could be the same thing.
In either case you've got two choices - containment or complete eradication. Containment is basically a normal clean with a colloidal, but with extra grooming and pre-vacuuming to kick up the offending creatures out of the pile. Then after extraction, a light re-application of the solution to "mop up" any larvae that you've missed. I always pay particular attention to the gulley between carpet and skirting. This will put a huge dent in the population but won't eradicate it, as there'll most likely be eggs still dormant somewhere and a few adults lurking to lay more eggs.
Complete eradication is a full-on respirator and suit job, using insecticide and growth inhibitor. I think I explained this at least once before, search the forum for "case bearing moth".
I offer the two services, fully explained, because sometimes the customer doesn't want to fork out big wads of money, such as this one the other day where they'd just bought the house and were going to rip up the carpets anyway.
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I was under the understanding that colloids break apart the connective tissues of small insects and arachnids, so I suppose that's pretty much the same thing as John says.
I got called out to a "Flea" job a couple of days ago. I knew as soon as they said that on the phone that they weren't "Fleas". Sure enough there they were up the corner, moth larvae.
Have you actually seen this infestation? Could be the same thing.
In either case you've got two choices - containment or complete eradication. Containment is basically a normal clean with a colloidal, but with extra grooming and pre-vacuuming to kick up the offending creatures out of the pile. Then after extraction, a light re-application of the solution to "mop up" any larvae that you've missed. I always pay particular attention to the gulley between carpet and skirting. This will put a huge dent in the population but won't eradicate it, as there'll most likely be eggs still dormant somewhere and a few adults lurking to lay more eggs.
Complete eradication is a full-on respirator and suit job, using insecticide and growth inhibitor. I think I explained this at least once before, search the forum for "case bearing moth".
I offer the two services, fully explained, because sometimes the customer doesn't want to fork out big wads of money, such as this one the other day where they'd just bought the house and were going to rip up the carpets anyway.
Where can you go for training in pest contol services?
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Not sure, do IICRC or NCCA cover this sort of thing?
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www.bpca.org.uk/index.asp?slevel=0z14&parent_id=14
Shaun
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Shaun
A blind course done it about 8 years ago!
Len
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They cost more than courses run by our suppliers ie £200 a day for 5 days
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What do you mean by " a blind course"
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Ive been asking about Mpower as i want to kill animal odours , and although Im told they are similiar produts Im not sure if Nemmisis also klls odours.
As far as I can see you can obtain Nnmmisis in a one litre bottle to experiment and see if you like it where as Mpower you need to by 5 litres
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Ian both products work the same. There are specific products to do the job you want as well.
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John
I have a letting agent with a persistent dog problem from a previous tennant, have tried Cleansan , have you anything better?
Cheers
Doug
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Doug
Have you tried odour fresh?
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I think odour fresh just masks smells, whereas Cleansan kills the bacteria that causes the smell?
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Odour Fresh is bactericidal and can be used as an additive
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Doug, if the problem is only the odour and no actual visible effect is needed, a colloidal mixed a little stronger than normal should do the trick. The way I use it is to apply generously but without overwetting, then just simply brush it in and ensure that the item/area is NOT dried out too quickly. I'll leave all windows and doors closed.
Obviously it's a judgement call depending on the items being worked on, but as long as you can allow this extended dwell without any risk then you're likely to get a pretty good result.
Very bad cases may need a second treatment.
If "cleaning" is needed as well as getting rid of the odour, I simply use my chosen cleaning method as normal (using the colloidal in this too), dry the area as much as possible, then follow the procedure above.
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A lot of dog smells are caused by the oils from the hair either absorbing into the fibres of the carpet or becoming deeply embedded at the bottom of the pile. You can see this by parting the pile. If this is the case it is sometimes extremely difficult to eradicate. If it is absorbtion then as Jim says a colloidal cleaner will often work well. Personally I would pre-spray, agitate, leave to dwell then rinse out with very hot water before applying a post spray of colloid or odour neutraliser.
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Jim, insecticide for moths!?
A simple regluar vacuum alls needed for moths, they only settle where vacuum does not go like under furnture, all cases I have seen moving the furniture and vacing a few times all thats needed.
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Hi Guys
I'm not convinced with the colloidal cleaners all singing all dancing claims made by some.
I can see them working reasonably well in a wet environment , such as oil dispersal, but my trials with Nemesis produced O.K results but nothing special.
The general consensus seems to be good on wool, not very good on synthetics.
I'm going to try John's suggestion but as carpet is heading for skip if I can't sort it, I'm going for Ultrapac boosted with enzyme, 30 mins dwell, agitation, very hot water extraction with acid rinse, spray with Cleansan.
Cheers
Doug
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Craig - you can treat them once and for all, or you can carry on pecking at them forever, whilst they slowly eat the carpet away. It depends on the economics involved, I've done a couple of jobs recently where the customer didn't want to go the whole hog because the carpets weren't that valuable to them, so a "containment" measure was carried out at a much lower price. Horses for courses ;)
Doug - My observation of the culture on this forum seems to be that the majority have tended to copy what a certain minority say. This sort of thing can perpetuate a completely misinformed point of view, unfortunately. You're a social outcast if you dare step away from the "general consensus", which is why most folks just drop into line and conform to fit in, whether they believe what they are saying or not.
Leaving names and suppliers to one side...
Switching over to a colloidal has been the biggest revolution in my cleaning for a long time. I don't know where people get this idea from that they're no good on synthetics. Personally I've been able to attain just as good results on a trashed rental polyprop as I could have done with a detergent, and I'm pretty sure that many others regularly using colloidals will say the same.
It just takes a little bit of adjustment and understanding of how the product works. It took me a good few months to get my head around it but now I wouldn't go back to using detergents as my standard approach.
I honestly don't think that the visible results of cleaning with colloids are anything significantly over and above detergents, it's just the complete package - one product in one sprayer at one dilution rate for both carpets and upholstery, whether you're extracting of using a LM system. You've also got the advantage that you're not leaving any residues behind to cause resoiling, and you can even add a little more product on after cleaning to deal with things like dog or smoke smells.
Maybe it's not so big an advantage for truckmounters, perhaps colloidals make the biggest difference to portable users? Nothing to do with "how much dirt it gets out", but purely with the operational aspect. I've found that despite what may be claimed, you do have to use plenty of it and get quite heavy with the agitation in heavy soil situations; a much longer dwell increases the effect too.
This is fine for a portable setup, but a truckmounter who wants to rip through jobs as quickly as possible isn't maximising the investment he's made in his machine - he doesn't want to go round a whole house with a rotary and sit looking at his watch waiting to extract.
Not running a truckmount I couldn't really say if that's exactly the case or not. I'm sure if the area to be cleaned is big enough, the job could be worked in such a way as to incorporate using colloids like this, especially with a 2-man team. However, reading your proposal of how you're going to attack that carpet, it's pretty much the same as I'd do except you're using four products where I'd be using one! (disregarding spotters of course).
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Jim, I think you hit the nail on the head. I sell a fair bit of the stuff so there are cleaners who use it regularly. As you say it can take some getting used to and it doesn't give you that instant hit like some detergents do. They are also one of the best hard surface cleaners available. As a spray and maintain without polish, absolutely brilliant. Takes a while to get the existing crap off.
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Hi Guys
Good discussion.
Jim, I have received more abuse than most for daring to go against the line which was being pushed so do agree, when you speak to CC's privately they are much more forthcoming.
I use Prochem Pureclean, microsplitter to some, on most of my jobs and find it very versatile in achieving excellent results and one of the things I like is the one chemical approach.
Like Jim with his colloids I find it works better at a higher concentration.
I will have to order some Nemesis from John and give it another go .I know these products are basically American and they have lots of synthetic carpets, might be worth putting the question on an American board
One of the most difficult things is CC is comparison.
We all hear the 'product XYZ did an amazing job' but often this is a case of many chemicals being able to achieve this.
Coming from a chemistry background, I like to experiment but am put off by hype/wild claims, in my experience in the lab those reps promising the earth usually had inferior products to the those having a more technical approach.
It was very rare to hear any technical guy make 'greatest product ever' claims, this was usually left to salesman.
Cheers
Doug
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Depending on carriage costs i think I might try it on my cats.
Jim you work with a Ninja so I should be able to ape your results
Now do I also add an oddur kill aswell or shall i apply that if it does not work.
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I have some Nemisis for when I see a customer with the very expensive organic vegetable delivery box sitting in the kitchen.
This means they are very happy to pay silly money for what they believe is good for them and will save the planet.
And yes I am very cynical sorry greenies.
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Give it another go Doug ;)
Ian - you plan to clean your CATS with a colloidal?!! Or was that a typo? :o
Mike, I must admit I share your cynicism about "green" cleaning. I don't market my services from a green angle, although like you if I think that mentioning the "eco-friendliness" of the product will have some bearing on the customer's decision to buy, I'll damn well make sure I tell them!
We turn up in a van made from all sorts of materials using untold amounts of resources to produce them, having burned some fuel that has caused pollution (even if it is 20% cooking oil, which is still burning things and polluting the atmosphere anyway).
We set up equipment made from an equally wide range of materials and probably each piece of that equipment had been shipped around the world consuming copious amounts of fuel and energy.
We then apply products which have been processed in a plant consuming vast amounts of power, packaged in plastic containers and then shunted around the world using a load more diesel.
We plug in to the national grid which is powered largely by burning fossil fuels (or we start up our fossil fuel-burning truckmounts).
We tip the remnants of our work into the sewage system (don't we all? ;) ) which uses yet more energy to process it and finally discharges the waste into our rivers.
I refuse to believe that the cleaning product we use has any measurable effect on the overall environmental impact of cleaning carpets.
But anyway, that's a different topic ;D
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Jim, you are a very sensible person, hats off.
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:D
I wonder if Mr Moss still thinks I'm John Bolton lol
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Jim John im not a sennsible person cleaning my cat is my wraped sense of hummor.
Thought if I erradicated the smell at source it would solve problem.
Jim thats what I have been saying for years regarding Green Issues
Most people who show concern about what cleaning Solutions we use are concerned about product saftey
I was going to keep quiet about this one as I did not want to jepodise my relationship with the company
But about a month ago I asked a company who produce a Healthy Home Range of Cleaning Chemicals if I could have a Certificate or letter from them say that the Healthy Home Range is Safe for Childen. I needed it for Schools I clean for.
For some reason they have been unable to issue me with such a letter, although they did send me a Promite Certificate
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Good to hear common sense for a change.................