Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: trevor perry on August 04, 2008, 02:20:07 pm
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used it today to clean some large 3 storey windows , they are only cleaned anually so really dirty when they had dried there where loads of brush marks and looked a mess i did them again with the bentley and they came perfect.
although i still think the supalite double trim is brilliant for maintenance cleans i dont think it is much good for one offs or yearly cleans but would like to here if anyone else has found similar on any work they have done.
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Of course they came up perfect when you did them again with the Bentley, you did them them twice. :D
Probably should have spent a bit more time on scrubbing and rinsing.
First cleans are great here.
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no i did some again with the supalite and they still wasnt right, i think it is just monafilament bristles are not any good on certain types of dirt and you need to use flocked bristles on these, i am not trying to critisize the brush as i think it is brilliant but just pointing out that one type of brush does not suit all situations.
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Of course they came up perfect when you did them again with the Bentley, you did them them twice. :D
Probably should have spent a bit more time on scrubbing and rinsing.
First cleans are great here.
You shouldn`t need to keep scrubbing with any brush,that full trim brush needs to be flocked.If it was flocked it would be perfect for 1st cleans,as it is i only find it any good for regular cleans.The full trim is 10 times the brush the double trim is,the full trim holds no dirt which is good but that dosen`t bother me much anyway as i use a good amount of water even on regular cleans,IMO the full trim with flocked ends would be as close to the perfect brush there is.
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You shouldn`t need to keep scrubbing with any brush,that full trim brush needs to be flocked.If it was flocked it would be perfect for 1st cleans,as it is i only find it any good for regular cleans.The full trim is 10 times the brush the double trim is,the full trim holds no dirt which is good but that dosen`t bother me much anyway as i use a good amount of water even on regular cleans,IMO the full trim with flocked ends would be as close to the perfect brush there is.
totally agree i hope alex brings one out.
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Mono can leave tracks like a wire brush effect on initial type cleans, as said the flocked on the second clean probably smoothed the fine marks.
But I still dont think much of flocked :P
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If it was flocked it could be a bit stiffer as the flagged ends would soften the overall brush,IMO the full trim is usable but like i say would benefit from being flocked.Your looking for the same weight as it is already with vikan flocked style ends,i would also add a lot more bristles cos when there wet they go to nothing,as said that weighted brush in that form would be very very hard to beat.
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NWH i totally agree with everything you are saying, i personally think the perfect brush would be if we took alex single trim monafilament brush but in the centre area had a good area of flocked bristles this way it would have the scrubbing power of monafilament but with the good finish that flocked achieves, what are your thoughts on this.
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Mono can leave tracks like a wire brush effect on initial type cleans, as said the flocked on the second clean probably smoothed the fine marks.
But I still dont think much of flocked :P
Flocked is the only way to be sure your removing all dirt from edges,like you Jeff i`ve tried and tested brushes by the lorry load and with this brush we are almost there,as you know weight is the issue and with this brush the weight is perfect.Being flocked makes no difference if you use enough water and with this brush being so light it`s easy peasy to tilt the brush and rinse on the glass,i have the same problem with this brush and the double trim as with the bentley it dosen`t totally clean a dirty window it leaves brush lines behind and this is only due to the style of bristle.Flagged ends will stop this problem and turn this brush into the best lightest brush on the market.Also with flagged ends on this brush will also make it easier to do sills and frames.
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NWH i totally agree with everything you are saying, i personally think the perfect brush would be if we took alex single trim monafilament brush but in the centre area had a good area of flocked bristles this way it would have the scrubbing power of monafilament but with the good finish that flocked achieves, what are your thoughts on this.
I disagree with that Trevor,IMO this inner bristle business is and old wives tail if you ask me.I would totally flock that brush and by doing this i would be sure that it would do the job,a mono brush is good because it holds next to no dirt or bits but to be effective in cleaning mode it has to have loads and loads of bristles to give the same glass coverage that a flagged brush does otherwise you will have this problem of leaving brush lines.To test it for yourself use a green mono brush like the 1 on Essentially Pures website,this is a mono but leaves no brush lines at all.
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Not every brush will suit every situation or worker. A lot will depend on the type of dirt that is on the windows.
I have just come back from doing a first clean on a new apartment block and I used the Super-Lite Double-Trim on a variety of poles. I found that it cleaned up really well with no second cleaning needed. I do always scrub and rinse twice on first cleans though.
I'm still not sure which I prefer - the single or the double trim brush. I used the DT on a lot of Georgian windows today and found it to be a lot faster than my previous prototype brush I used and far better than the Vikans or the Bentley. I think that the DT is definitely more suited to high level work as it cleans with minimum effort. My Dad is a very hard window cleaner to please and he has said nothing much about the double trim version (although he has used it happily for many hours now!), but after using the single trim for a day he did actually say that it was a nice brush. I think it probably comes down to the type of work being carried out.
So did I read it right above that NWH prefers the ST brush, but would like it in a flocked version?
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That single trim in flocked would be the ultimate brush IMO,you know me i`m not fussy when it comes to brushes lol.I do honestly think that if most tried it in flocked form they would love it much much more,the single trim that is.
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used it today to clean some large 3 storey windows , they are only cleaned anually so really dirty when they had dried there where loads of brush marks and looked a mess i did them again with the bentley and they came perfect.
although i still think the supalite double trim is brilliant for maintenance cleans i dont think it is much good for one offs or yearly cleans but would like to here if anyone else has found similar on any work they have done.
I did a first clean today with Alex's single trim. The place was very dirty, an old farmhouse with sash windows.
Now Id been using the brush all day and love it so far, it feels like theres nothing on the pole, so light. Anyway I did one of these sash windows and went back to have a lookie halfway throguh the job and as trevor has already said I found also dirty glass and filth still on the window. I gave it another go over and Im sure everything was fine.
Now I wouldnt usually use a brush of this nature for a first clean, I feel on first cleans theres a real need to get some action on a first clean. To me this brush is unsuitable for that, too soft, I think a vikan is a good brush for first clean, as theyre so stiff.
The only reason I used Alexs brush on this particular property was becasue of the style of windows and some looked a little dodgy structurally ;) hoepfully all will be well next time but it has to be a vikan from now on on most first cleans followed by the superlight on any subsequent cleans.
It seems to me that the superlight is a superb window-cleaning brush obviously designed by a window-cleaner; unfortunately no one brush can cover every angle.
Matt
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but with the good finish that flocked achieves
Could you explain this a little further please?
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Maybe it's me, but reading this thread so far there seems to be more confusion than ever!
By the way, I used the Superlite DT for the first time today. I had a lot of groundfloor stuff to do, I deliberately started on that so I could see the results up close.
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Maybe it's me, but reading this thread so far there seems to be more confusion than ever!
By the way, I used the Superlite DT for the first time today. I had a lot of groundfloor stuff to do, I deliberately started on that so I could see the results up close.
That was a waste of time,you get far more action on the downstairs glass than you do on the tops.You could use anything downstairs and get results,for upstairs you want minimal brushing for results.
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but with the good finish that flocked achieves
Could you explain this a little further please?
hard to explain but what i mean is a flocked brush seems to cover the glass more and wipe the dirt off without bouncing over it , this can be seen when you do windows with runs that come out off the black rubber seals a flocked brush will wipe these of first attempt wheras a monafilament brush seems to ride over the top, i suppose what i am trying to say is a flocked brush must get into the uneven glass surface better than monofilament brush.(i hope that makes sense i have never been good at explaining what i mean)
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so which is better for an all round brush, single or double trim ??
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so which is better for an all round brush, single or double trim ??
me personally would say single trim.
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Maybe it's me, but reading this thread so far there seems to be more confusion than ever!
By the way, I used the Superlite DT for the first time today. I had a lot of groundfloor stuff to do, I deliberately started on that so I could see the results up close.
That was a waste of time,you get far more action on the downstairs glass than you do on the tops.You could use anything downstairs and get results,for upstairs you want minimal brushing for results.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Actually I found out exactly what I wanted to know about it's performance up close. a lot more than from reading these bipolar opinions :o
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Come on then pj, let me in on it as I've got one on order, don't worry about the others ;)
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Maybe it's me, but reading this thread so far there seems to be more confusion than ever!
By the way, I used the Superlite DT for the first time today. I had a lot of groundfloor stuff to do, I deliberately started on that so I could see the results up close.
That was a waste of time,you get far more action on the downstairs glass than you do on the tops.You could use anything downstairs and get results,for upstairs you want minimal brushing for results.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Actually I found out exactly what I wanted to know about it's performance up close. a lot more than from reading these bipolar opinions :o
It sounds like your one of these people that couldn`t careless what brush they use,i do.The right brush won`t save you minutes it will save you hours over the course of the month beleive me,having to keep checking windows all the time no no that`s not for me.I am giving an opinion that will help everyone on here,it may sound like i`m being brash i`m sorry if that`s how i come across but Alex will know what i`m talking about he`s as fussy as me.This brush on the SL2 is good but could be better and Alex is addressing this,after speaking to Alex on many occasions i know he will listen and try his best he knows i`m not knocking him,he`s after all a pioneer really when it comes to WFP and does all he can to help.
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Well, I like the fact that the bristles are white - easier to see if its clogging.
It is a little small but very light.
Performance: A bit more spring in the bristles than the old flocked Vikan and the dual trim Ionics, but not as much as Gaz's old brush, probably a bit stiffer than most Bentleys; what this means for me is that it is just soft enough to sweep across the glass without streaking, but stiff enough to hack at impacted soilage.
The inner part of trim is good and stiff as you want it to be.
The downside is that the inner bristle part is too small - not in length just not enough bristles, and theres not really enough bristles for my liking on the whole brush.
Apart from that I am confident it will work well for me on quite a big Edwardian first clean for a year tomorrow. I'm doing the insides too so I'll know exactly how it performs.
Oh and you can 'rinse on' with it better than any brush I've used before...........so far........but I've only been wfp 3 years
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Well, I like the fact that the bristles are white - easier to see if its clogging.
Oh and you can 'rinse on' with it better than any brush I've used before...........so far........but I've only been wfp 3 years
White bristles - fantastic - by far the best colour and the best brush I have ever seen for rinsing on too. Particularly useful at height -which I believe it was designed for ;)
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I can`t remember anyone saying it was designed specifically for great height,i thought it-they were supposed to compliment the SLX or similar.Saying that they work better at height and on a light pole ie SL2.
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Hi guys
Well, we cleaned a really dirty under the gutters and windows the other day and it came out perfect, the secret is the combination of hot water, super light brush and fan jets.
Long live SLX-2 :) :)
Regards
Bosh
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A little while ago people were talking about that a mono brush is essential for brush on rinsing (including NWH if I recall correctly, not an attack, just an observation) and now flocked is preferred by some, and that it doesn't make a difference to brush on rinsing.
Am I the only one that is very confused by all this?
I'm not sure I really understand the wire brush effect? I haven't had any of that on first cleans, are you guys talking about little spots going over the top of the glass sort of in pattern that you can see has been caused by the brush? I rarely get that, only if windows are very badly beading I get that now and then, and even then it's only a little bit. Never have that on sheeting windows.
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I think they are talking about really filthy glass that won't clean properly in one pass and so is still on the glass with bristle trails running through it.
I'm also suprised about the sudden turn about in flocked brush popularity. ???
In my opinion you want a selection of brushes anyway to suit different jobs if you want perfection.
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A little while ago people were talking about that a mono brush is essential for brush on rinsing (including NWH if I recall correctly, not an attack, just an observation) and now flocked is preferred by some, and that it doesn't make a difference to brush on rinsing.
Am I the only one that is very confused by all this?
I'm not sure I really understand the wire brush effect? I haven't had any of that on first cleans, are you guys talking about little spots going over the top of the glass sort of in pattern that you can see has been caused by the brush? I rarely get that, only if windows are very badly beading I get that now and then, and even then it's only a little bit. Never have that on sheeting windows.
Mono brushes are the best but only if they have loads and loads and loads of bristles,this brush dosen`t.
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Trouble is, if you stuff it with bristles then it won't splay so well.
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Trouble is, if you stuff it with bristles then it won't splay so well.
The amount of bristles has nothing to do with it,length of bristles determines the splay.
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Seems like you will have to invent one then NWH :)
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Alex has THE brush and when he sends me a flocked 1 to try i`ll be happy,in single trim of course.
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Mono brushes are the best but only if they have loads and loads and loads of bristles,this brush doesn`t.
Alex has THE brush and when he sends me a flocked 1 to try i`ll be happy,in single trim of course.
Hold on, those two comments are totally opposite? First post you say mono's are the best providing they have enough bristles, and the current SP doesn't have that, and second post says that this is THE brush, but it isn't the best because it's not flocked, while the first post said Mono's are the best. ??? ???
So basically, you do not want a flocked brush, you want the current mono brush but then with more bristles? Correct?
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Flocked brushes are the best especially the square vikan, nothing comes close.
We have tried everything and we keep coming back to vikans.
Well they are the worlds leading cleaning brush manufacturers.
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Mono brushes are the best but only if they have loads and loads and loads of bristles,this brush doesn`t.
Alex has THE brush and when he sends me a flocked 1 to try i`ll be happy,in single trim of course.
Hold on, those two comments are totally opposite? First post you say mono's are the best providing they have enough bristles, and the current SP doesn't have that, and second post says that this is THE brush, but it isn't the best because it's not flocked, while the first post said Mono's are the best. ??? ???
So basically, you do not want a flocked brush, you want the current mono brush but then with more bristles? Correct?
Mono brushes will leave less far less particals of dirt on the glass over a flocked brush making them better for rinsing on the glass which i do,if you use a flocked brush you can tilt the brush and rinse half on the glass making cleaning almost as quick as the mono,if you use more water it`s as quick.I`m not saying a mono cleans any better i`m saying it`s quicker in use as you can rinse on the glass better,up and till now there hasn`t been a flocked brush on the market that was light enough to use allday long there all heavy IMO,for overall cleaning results ie frames glass sills a flocked brush performs better in all 3 departments but is not quicker because of it`s weight.The main thing i`m trying to say is that if this brush was flocked it`s so so light that if you use enough water you WILL be able to rinse on with a slight tilt,Look at a flocked brush an oval-sill-square there all far far to heavy for our job if you flock this brush you have the perfect bristle for cleaning but the main thing you have is that it weighs nothing.As Elvis would say thank you very much. ;D ;D ;D
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Errr, the Bentley is flocked and the lightest available but crap in your opinion?
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Errr, the Bentley is flocked and the lightest available but crap in your opinion?
I wouldn`t even mention that brush with anything to do with WC,look at a vikan flocked brush and imagine that on the end of a mega light stock like Alex`s new 1.You then have the ultimate brush bar none,flocked brushes do hold dirt yes but it`s minimal with the odd flick through the bristles with the fingers from time to time if there mantainance cleans.Like i say with plenty of water when using it and tilting on to rinse you would get top results,the new brushes as they are do an exellent job at great height but we don`t all work at great height all of the time the majority of us work at 20-25ft most of the time from day to day.We don`t argue that the vikans do a good job but the are just to heavy for WFP,if vikan got there heads out of there back sides they could make a fortune if they designed a mega light brush for WC,they have the machinery and skills to do it yet 1 never seems to appear.
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NWH, thank you very much for all that, I understand it a lot better now.
Is there such a big difference between the mono rectangular and the flocked rectangular? Because you really don't like the mono do you? Is it because it's flocked it melts on the glass?
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NWH, thank you very much for all that, I understand it a lot better now.
Is there such a big difference between the mono rectangular and the flocked rectangular? Because you really don't like the mono do you? Is it because it's flocked it melts on the glass?
Yes,the flocked flexes better and in general cleans far better.The mono vikan square flicks bits around everywhere and leaves spots IMO,although there both heavy to use the flocked version beats the same in mono hands down.
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Have to say the much respected Alex Gardiner managed to clean with a Superlight Bentley for years - must be some dirty properties all over Cornwall. ;D
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Have to say the much respected Alex Gardiner managed to clean with a Superlight Bentley for years - must be some dirty properties all over Cornwall. ;D
What other brush would you put on a 60ft pole then?i suppose you could always try a vikan sill brush,but i think that would have been like wrestling a crocodile.
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I found the Addis good for me. But then i also like a lightened Vikan mono.
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I found the Addis good for me. But then i also like a lightened Vikan mono.
The thing is i don`t want to go round my work with the same thing the lady of the house sweeps her kitchen floor with,apart from that it`s not a long term solution is it.
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No pleasing some people, so Gardiners are no good, Vikans no good, Ionics no good, Cleaning Spot no good, Addis no good, Bentley no good, Tucker? must be no good too perhaps you should be trad? :)
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No pleasing some people, so Gardiners are no good, Vikans no good, Ionics no good, Cleaning Spot no good, Addis no good, Bentley no good, Tucker? must be no good too perhaps you should be trad? :)
;D ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P
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No pleasing some people, so Gardiners are no good, Vikans no good, Ionics no good, Cleaning Spot no good, Addis no good, Bentley no good, Tucker? must be no good too perhaps you should be trad? :)
;D ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P
NWH uses a red vikan for wfp (had to add that or he would say yes as a bog brush) he just keeps telling himself that its not good to save face :P ;)
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NWH, ever tried a Tucker?
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I found the Addis good for me. But then i also like a lightened Vikan mono.
The thing is i don`t want to go round my work with the same thing the lady of the house sweeps her kitchen floor with,apart from that it`s not a long term solution is it.
Why not, you do it with a salmon. :P salmon brushes are broom heads for anyone who didn't know! & are NWH best all-time wfp brush ;D
Tony
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Flocked brushes are the best especially the square vikan, nothing comes close.
We have tried everything and we keep coming back to vikans.
Well they are the worlds leading cleaning brush manufacturers.
Well dave, i'm shocked :o It did however have to happen one day-
WE AGREE ON SOMETHING :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Try trimming the excess black stock away, they're even better. ;)
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Tony
I thought you just disagreed with me for the sake of it, but now i can see that is not the case, unless this is a double bluff.
I am trying the new sl-2 brush this week as it will be fitted to my brand spanking new 56 ft sl-2 pole.
I bet Alex is really looking forward to my review of the brush lol.
The sl2 will get good reviews because in my opinion i am buying it for the right reasons, 3 big awkward jobs, where i know it will help, i am not expecting anything else from it.