UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: clive on February 06, 2005, 09:48:27 pm
Title: measuring up
Post by: clive on February 06, 2005, 09:48:27 pm
I normally use a rolatape which measures in feet. Got a new one recently which measures in metres but I find I prefer the old square foot method. Might be selling the new metre rolatape soon!
clive
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: John_Flynn on February 06, 2005, 10:23:56 pm
As stated before I have been British for 57 years and have NO intentions of becoming European.
A pound of Bannans please.
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on February 06, 2005, 10:28:59 pm
Bananas aren't European ;D
Sorry I didn't ring you John, if I could I would like to contact Roy Castle as me and the MRS are going for a world record in 'spot the smile'.
When are you fetching it and can you get a lid how big is it :o
Shaun
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: John_Flynn on February 06, 2005, 11:07:06 pm
When are you fetching it and can you get a lid how big is it :o
Shaun
That is rather personal Shaun, you cheeky boy!!
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: strakercleaning on February 07, 2005, 10:52:07 am
Measure in square metres...............use up to date equipment why not up to date measurements ::) Have a Strait Line digital tape.............point lazer at wall press button and repeat across other dimension.......VOILA......square metres already worked out for you. :o Customers love it as they all comment that" the estate agents use one like that.".......and everyone trusts them :-X Around £30 from Scewfix and i check it on my lounge weekly to verify accuracy ;D ps. wall to wall sizes taken.
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 07, 2005, 11:31:27 am
Do you deduct wall funiture when measurin
Or do you price on size of room.
My Price is for room size .
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Chris Bailey on February 07, 2005, 12:39:26 pm
Hi Ian
I measure room size aswell otherwise you'll be measuring all the nooks and crannies we come across as well.
Chris
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Martin S on February 07, 2005, 02:27:03 pm
Chris Straker,
How accurate is the 'Strait line' and is it definately 'Laser'. As the Ultrasonic ones are unreliable IMO.
Regards.
Martin S
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Amberleyandmick on February 07, 2005, 02:44:08 pm
we have worked out price list for room sizes when people phone ie upto 12'x12' 12'x24' then i have double bedroom, standard bedroom , box room etc i only do domestics at the moment and felt this was easiest way to start. once we have more experience and maybe when asked to quote on care homes- b and bs etc we may have to rethink how we do things- oh and have metric price list as well ;D.. Amberley and mick
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Mike Halliday on February 07, 2005, 05:04:52 pm
A & M, So you're going to give prices over the phone :o :o,
size is only one concideration to work out how much to charge, since the beginning of the year I've been visiting the home and giving a price based on how long it'll take rather than how big it is.
Mike
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: David_Annable on February 07, 2005, 05:56:04 pm
Mike
To somebody new to the game they might believe the above.
Whats the real reason you insist on visiting all clients.
Dave
I wouldn't want to spend the evening giving quotes
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: John_Flynn on February 07, 2005, 07:13:50 pm
Listen to Mike Dave, he makes good money from Carpet Cleaning, personally I have been C/C for 5 years and have always priced in the house ( the way I was taught to get what your worth).
The job I spoke about on another post 3 bed rooms and a lounge (£215.00) quoted in house, did the job today took 3 hours and have been booked to do it again in 3 months.
Get out there sell yourself to the client, woo them, smile at them treat them as they are special, win their confidence, you will then get a good price for your work and a client and friend for life!!
I am correct Mr Halliday and Mr Gourlay??
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Mike Halliday on February 07, 2005, 07:53:22 pm
Dave as I've been slowly raising my prices I've found I've got to quote in home, people might spend £60-£80 over the phone but when you get in the £200+ range they need to see you and be convinced your different from the guys in the paper advertising £35 suites and carpets for £15.
And I've now taken my prices off my leaflet, so I've got to visit them.
Mike
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: David_Annable on February 07, 2005, 08:09:33 pm
Thanks for the advice lads
Dave
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: *paul_moss on February 07, 2005, 08:13:04 pm
Mike I agree with you. I have now taken prices off my leaflets and I quote at the house when ever possible. I charge by square foot and use an electronuc metre.
I charge 25 p a square foot or 30 pence if badly soiled.
Paul
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Amberleyandmick on February 07, 2005, 09:00:34 pm
mike. we are still very new to carpet cleaning- i do agree with all of you that its better to quote on site .but i have found people wanting to know there and then when phoning and a few have quickly lost interest when ive tried to get a site visit first . we say subject to survey when we quote over phone and i dont have any prices on any leaflets or adverts. as i said we are still at the bottom of the learning curve and if we are asked the same question in twelve months no doubt our answers and sales technique will be very different. we do appreciate all the advice we have gathered off this site over last few days. amberley/mick
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: David_Annable on February 07, 2005, 09:54:44 pm
For me when i asked the question, I new what the answer would be.
Even though i quote mostly over the phone, I do agree that I could charge higher prices if I visited.
But after twelve years it would be a big upheaval.
thanks Dave
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on February 07, 2005, 10:28:20 pm
I'm sure that if someone said to you that you could double your income you would go out and do it!
I price most jobs over the phone, I charge more than most including some Chemdry but I could not go out and see everyone that calls me I'd get no work done.
It's a take it or leave it price said in the most delightful way ;D, it's taken me a long time and alot of marketing to get here and I'm always retuning it but when you are getting like today 21 calls you can afford to be a bit more choosy.
Shaun
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Len Gribble on February 07, 2005, 10:45:19 pm
If I had to go out and price every, and I mean every job domestic that is! I would not make any money!
Len
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: David_Annable on February 07, 2005, 11:18:28 pm
Probably 5 years ago 3 piece £35, up to a year ago £50 now £75.
Carpet started £1.50 sq yd, now £2 to £2.25 Clean.
Whats the next step.
Dave
I already run into trouble if a custy from 3 years ago rings.
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 07, 2005, 11:35:06 pm
I am staggared Mike is now visting Homes.
Although It was in my plans to do the same, after going on Discovery day. I new I should anyway as its what I was to;d to do when I first started but got out of the habit, which is stupid as I could not sell a House full of Blinds without visiting the customer and wowing her as my blinds are not cheap
Im now going to have to do it. for Carpet Cleaning where the profit per hour spent is much higher .
Also Im now not going to put prices on leaflet which I had no plans to do but always wondered if I should. As Mike said he did.
Because if Mike has seen the light thats the way to go.
So I am stopping qouting over the phone. Im a brilliant Salesman anyway. But it did take years of practice. ;D ;D ;D
And I agree with John if i do not like them I do not want to clean their carpets.
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Mike Halliday on February 08, 2005, 07:41:39 am
Don't forget the small area I work in, if i was having to travel over 3 miles to do all these quotes I might think differently. I did 3 quote last night all within 0.5 of a mile.
also I found that even when I had prices on the leaflet people still asked me to come and give them a quote, I often felt like saying "why do you want me to come and quote, my prices are right under your nose!!"
Mike
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: jacko on February 08, 2005, 08:40:28 am
I charge by the SqM - 3 price bands according to soiling and stains. Have a policy of not quoting over phone, but lately so busy, working till 9pm and Saturdays to get all quotes in.
A couple i have priced and won over phone because of the time factors. Need to sort my time management out, maybe set aside 1/2 day for surveys/quotes.
Other factors like how much furniture to move (material cost too with Poly blocks and foil pads) are not taken into account within price structures - sort of swings and roundabouts, but unfair to those customers who are kind enough to present me with an M/T room!
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Chris Bailey on February 08, 2005, 02:55:27 pm
Hi All
I measure in square Metres and use an ultrasonic laser measure, which I have found out recently isn't very accurate!
Since spending a day with on of you guys I decided to put my prices up - significantly! I charge per square metre regardless of the condition of soiling but may vary my price depending on a few factors such as how much work I have on, what sort of house i.e. 2 bed terraced or 4 bed detached etc, basically on a adhoc basis.
Can I ask what criteria people are using to define the different pricing structures?
Is it size of house, depth of soiling, amount of furniture to be moved or is it the same as me and adhoc?
Nice thread this, very informative.
Chris
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ken Wainwright on February 08, 2005, 04:14:17 pm
For David A. and others. My tale of increasing prices.
After 16 years in the industry, I had developed a routine of increasing my prices a little above the official inflation rate. In those days, CleanTalk wasn't even a twinkle in Paul Elliott's groin, so communication within the industry was less than minimal. As per usual, I increased my prices on January 1st 1996. In February I attended my first NCCA course. Speaking to others there, I realised I was grossly undervaluing my services. There was no way on this planet that I was going to increase my charges to their levels in one go, even though after the course I felt I was a "better" cleaner than most of them ;). So I formulated a new pricing policy. I increased my prices by 50p M2 with immediate effect so this was my second increase in about 6 weeks. I then set a goal of increasing by more than inflation over the next 3 price revues to achieve £2.30M. In the end this turned out to be £2.60 with normal inflation. Last year I increased by another 80p as I felt my charges were falling behind what the marketplace was commanding. So now I'm on £3.40 and £30 per seat.
Experience over the years has shown me that the biggest hurdle to price increases has been me. I felt as though I may have been taking advantage of my regular customers' loyalties. Absolute Bunkum!! It's as though the price is immaterial to them. They want the best service they can get, and don't mind paying a fair price. They're the kind of customers we all want.
If you fear the loss of business if you increase your charges too much in one go, do what I did. Value what your services are, set that as a goal and have a planned strategy over the next few years so that you reach it. And when you get there, you'll need to add on a few years inflation, so you'll have to increase your prices again.
Safe and happy cleaning :) Ken
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Martin S on February 08, 2005, 05:13:12 pm
Good post Ken. Very helpful, as ever.
I suppose, that in reality, there is a market out there for everyone, cheap and expensive, just as there is for all other consumer goods and services. If all the cheaper CC's put up there prices in line with the expensive ones, no doubt they would lose some of their customer base, as not everyone could afford it or would pay it.
As a consequence, the more expensive CC's would have a lot more competition from CC's vying for their Socio/economic group of customer. And vice versa.
Just my slant on it.
Regards.
Martin S
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 09, 2005, 08:06:10 am
Hi Guys,
Two posts caught my attention.
Ken,
I've been increasing above inflation for years now , but after going on the forums I realised I'd still got some way to go so last year went for 15 % and this year the same.
Jacko,
The reason I quote over the phone is that I am busy and do not want to spend my evenings quoting.
I'd rather go to the club,see the kids, enjoy masonary etc. There's more to life than carpet cleaning!
Cheers,
Doug
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: jacko on February 09, 2005, 08:42:21 am
Doug
100% agree with you. I am a relative newbie, so still building my business and finding my feet! (My wife would also agree with you!).
I am certainly going to view things in a much less black & white way, if i feel a visit is not nessesary to win the job or give a fair price i might quote over phone. However i would do it as a Price Guide subject to survey / testing b4 commencement of job, and it would be an exception.
By the way i measure using a wheel calicbrated in sq feet - then convert to Sq M -( SqF/10x.0929)
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ian Rochester on February 09, 2005, 10:46:12 am
Just read through this thread and realised that we are SERIOUSLY underpricing if some of you guys are getting the prices you say you are, £2.25 - £3.40/sq yd and £30.00 per seat!!
I always believe we give good value for money, got a good database of repeat customers and regular commercial jobs throughout the year.
Our average prices are £50-60 for a suite and £1.50/sq yd for carpets. The problem is, we are by no means the cheapest in the area, even some of the franchaises are competing with us on price so I can't see how we can raise our prices further.
Where possible I go out to a house and price the job as I believe you are more likely to get it that way, I do however still quote over the phone it's only a small job and too far away for convenience. We always go out to commercial jobs for estimates. I tend to work in either yards or metres and also have a minimum price we will clean any room for. Metres are easier when quoting for carpet tiles as the are all generally 50cm x 50cm.
I have decided to go to this years Cleaning Show, probably the Wednesday as I quite fancy going to the Employment law and H & S Seminars so will hopefully see some of you down there.
Ian
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Big_Fish on February 09, 2005, 10:52:37 am
We always visit to survey/ quote new business. Repeat business and some recommendations are happy to book a service appointment and get the price before we start which cuts out the additional visit.
We've never quoted over the phone and can't imagine a time when we will. We block book quotation appointments and at present our last appointment is 6pm and no weekends.
There are 2 of us here though working full time. Things would have to be different if Murray was doing everything.
Nicky
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: *paul_moss on February 09, 2005, 11:56:55 am
Ian Like you i was charging similar prices for suites and carpets. Only when i saw some of the threads i knew i was under charging for my services. I have now increased prices in 2 jumps in the last 6 months. My prices are Suites £80-£120, Protector £80 for a suite and carpets are between 25p and 30p per sq foot. I loose a few quotes on price but i am sticking rigidly to those prices now as i believe i offer a valued professional service to my customers. I have stopped putting prices on leaflets and like Nicky I quote at the house unless the customer is adament on a phone quote.
Paul
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: *paul_moss on February 09, 2005, 12:06:54 pm
Ian just on the back of my last thread re price increase. I have this morning done 2 quotes ,the first a council rented small terrace house,the only living room they have is 10 ft by 10 ft and is a cheap nylon ,quote £30 . No probs,book the job. The next qoute is in the richest area i live in very large 5 bedroom detached house expensive merc and bmw in drive.She owns a big business and is wealthy.So i quote for the 2 large living rooms, both wool carpet around 5 years old and never been cleaned.Qoute is £80, which is £40 for each room.
Oh I will get in touch but I could tell the quote was too expensive.
Yet this woman is the type that will go out of a night with her friend and order a bottle of champers for £30 and only drink half of it.
It just shows to be how some people just under value are work and it does not matter how much dosh they have..
Paul
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ken Wainwright on February 09, 2005, 12:33:48 pm
This is meant as a serious comment and is definately not sarcasm.
You go out to supply a quotation. Or do you go out to SELL your services?
I can appreciate that us "Old timers" are in a priviliged position, but even cold callers are invariably converted into a sale after a home visit. Look at your on-site presentation. Folders and photos of work done are usually of benefit, but some may then see you as being no different to any proffesional salesman if you are too slick, rather than a caring, knowledgeable tradesman. Do the tests, tell them what the carpet is made of. Ask the right questions. Discuss the options. If mentioned, praise the franchise opposition then tell why the system they use is great on this or that type of carpet, but with your independence you are free to use the best system possible for Sir/Madams carpet. After the house and the car, the most expensive family purchase is typically the floor coverings (collectively) Individually, the most expensive is usually the suite. Expensive possessions which require expert care. In the end, most will want the best for their carpets and be prepared to pay a fair price.
Safe and happy selling :) Ken
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: ecoklean uk ltd on February 09, 2005, 01:09:25 pm
Hi How about chargeing on time spent cleaning the carpets ? Would the room be empty when you went to clean? Dont have to pre inspect fairer on owner if the carpet is clean shorter time to clean are we all working by the hour any way?
steve
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Kinver_Clean on February 09, 2005, 06:34:18 pm
I put my prices up by 50% a good while ago and lost the rubbish off the bottom. I always look at commercial jobs but living out in the sticks I would spend as much time quoting as doing the jobs-I did 14500 miles last year in the van. If I cut my patch to 3-4 miles I would have 150 customers max!
Trevor
It does have its compensations- such as no neighbours to worry about.
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Len Gribble on February 09, 2005, 08:12:59 pm
Chris R
Lucky for me I have relatives in all places that I advertise in, only one phone number. Some times have let the cat out the bag and tell them area where I live, some have never heard of it KENT! But never been a problem.
Len
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: *paul_moss on February 09, 2005, 08:33:54 pm
Ken A little confussed at your response.
Your services are your quote. We are in a service industry.
This is dependant on the situation and what the customer wants and the type of result expected.
Paul
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 09, 2005, 09:45:00 pm
Ken,
I agree with you comment about Selling, but I have only come across two organizations in the Carpet Cleaning industry that have tried to supply Carpet Cleaners with Sales Aids David Wilks (Ashleys) in Huddesfield provided a Presenter, and Robert Saunders ALLtec Powerpoiny Presentation.
Lee from Prochem has just supplied with a Coloured Prochem Cleaning system
handout.
True you can make your own but it lloks a lot better if produced by a larger organizaation who can then divey up design costs etc.
Perhaps its one of the initiatives we are waiting to hear about from NCCA/
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ken Wainwright on February 10, 2005, 03:38:51 pm
Paul
What I was referring to was that some people (from whatever industry) will turn up at the prospects door, cost the job, give a quotation and may/may not ask for an order. That's giving a quotation.
Another trademan will turn up, put on his overshoes, talk with the prospects, ask what they expext/need, then ask all the relevant questions, do the inspection and tests required, measure, cost, tell the prospects what and why he will do this/that/the other etc. etc.and then provide a quotation and may/may not try to close there and then. This is the approch that I would call selling your services. It has proven over the years, not only for myself but countless others too, to be a very successful approach rather than just giving a quotation.
I have been known, on more than one occasion, to just provide a quotation because I really didn't fancy the job :-[
Ian
I was thinking more along the lines of a presentation folder made up of photos of work you have previously completed. Some people will do a similar thing with a laptop. Not being heavily into the direct sales and marketing thing, I have little knowledge of the commercially available products you mention.
Safe and happy cleaning :) Ken
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: *paul_moss on February 10, 2005, 09:10:19 pm
Ken Do excuse me if I have missed something here. ??? But what you are stateing is common sense professional salesman-ship which I would guess is the way most of us go about our business. ;)
Paul
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on February 10, 2005, 09:41:55 pm
It's all about professionalism and how you sell it!
Ken is correct in the way he does it, Paul Pearce once said to me that a quotation is a presentation of how you will do your work.
Ken shows the customer that he is maticulous, caring, thorough and knowledgable.
Ok it's a bit of play acting in someways but he would charge alot more than say £40 a room that was quoted and still get the job.
Can you see where I'm coming from?
You've got to WOW them, you may do exactly the same cleaning but it is the percieved cleaning, called it 'fore play' specially with pink marigolds :o
Shaun
KEN is there any chance you would show me how you do your in house audit ( I would like to take lessons and this is not meant as a wind up, I'll even buy you a cuppa and a bun! )
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ken Wainwright on February 11, 2005, 10:05:57 am
Thanks for answering on my behalf Shaun.
I've just come back from a quote. Largest room was 19m2 4 beds. No bathroom, hall or kitchen. £325 from cold enquiry, booked in Tuesday week. Apart from my NCCA leaflet, Business Card and Woolsafe leaflet I don't give/use any presentation aids. I spent 45 minutes there measuring, inspecting, testing fibres/dyes, asking all the right questions. explaining the benefits of my microsplitting/fresh water rinse over using detergents. I am more comfortable with the Soft Sell so provide Madam with the quotation to consider/discuss in her own time, but still walk out with the order. She got my name from the NCCA website, but don't know if she contacted any others.
I'll be at the NEC every day Shaun. I'll take you up on your offer for a cup of Tetley's finest :)
Safe and happy cleaning :) Ken
PS Correction to the above. It's £335 :-[
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Gavin Reardon on February 11, 2005, 02:43:26 pm
Hi Ken
Is that all £335 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ive been a member of the NCCA for a few years now and I have never got a phone call from a customer who has got me from the NCCA :(
Regards
Gavin
Title: Re: measuring up
Post by: Ken Wainwright on February 11, 2005, 05:15:14 pm
Hi Gavin
Yes that's right, I made a small error in my post so corrected it in the PS.
It seems that I get fewer enquiries these days via the NCCA office ( they give out 3 members names and numbers in the callers locality). I have, however, had 3 enquiries so far this year from the NCCA website, one by email initially, (about a £50 job), the one above by phone and another email enquiry for which I have quoted but not closed (yet?) That's for a nursing home, in a right state, but that's another story.