Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Turley on August 02, 2008, 08:13:22 am
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I cracked my 2nd window today on a first clean.
water was at 44 degrees and I was working on that pane for about 40 sseconds as it was proper filthy
it was double glazed upvc. I got an estimate from a local glazier of £70 for cash supplied and fitted and left the money with the custies lad and called her at work to explain.
she was very understanding and chilled about it.
it was only a tiny semi (£15 first clean, £10 thereafter). hope this doesn't become too regular, my last one was about 2 months ago with slightly cooler water!
ah well, making more than enough dosh at the min, so I don't suppose it matters too much
::) ;D
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cold water is so much better
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I take it you have't tried hot yet??
I won't be going back to cold, that £70 is nothing really compared to the extra money I make because im using hot.
no regrets here ;D
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ive never cracked a glass :P
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I would like to try it, but this whole cracking panes business is really not good in my opinion. We really need to get some solid info on what is a definite safe temperature, where you can be certain nothing will crack. 35c perhaps?
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so I don't suppose it matters too much
It does to the person whos property it is. Its called respect.
Even if you've sorted out getting it repaired and paid for it out of your own pocket. If someone had an attitude of it doesnt matter after damaging my property they'd not be welcome here anymore. No wonder window-cleaners have a bad reputation.
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I would like to try it, but this whole cracking panes business is really not good in my opinion. We really need to get some solid info on what is a definite safe temperature, where you can be certain nothing will crack. 35c perhaps?
Even at 20C there's a difference in cleaning power. 35C is plenty on most jobs,.. but I turn the dial up a bit on the first cleans and really dirty ones. I never use completely cold anymore,... even with the heater turned down to minimum its a world of difference from cold wfp!
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My Van gets really hot, so my tank water was well above 20c on hot days, I'm not sure if it made a difference on cleans, but they did come up well, but the hoses are so nice and supple, very nice to work with. I haven't had really cold days yet with wfp, but if it's chilly in the morning, the hose is much stiffer.
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Looks like 20 degree difference from the ambient air temp is the average use ie at 0C use 20C water at 20C use 40C water.
On freezing days 20C is only just about luke warm.
But the loss of heat through the hose accounts for about 6-10 degrees on freezing days ?
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What Hot water system set up do you have!
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If he's cracked 2 in the summer I dread to think how many will crack in winter..!!
Good job he's earning more to pay for all those windows....... Although the local window company might offer him discount on all the repeat business... ;D
Regards
Mr H
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I won't be going back to cold, that £70 is nothing really compared to the extra money I make because im using hot.
How are you making extra money? ???
I understand it may be a bit easier on filthy first cleans, but don't try and tell us it makes any difference on a normal monthly or bi-monthly clean.
No way.
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I won't be going back to cold, that £70 is nothing really compared to the extra money I make because im using hot.
How are you making extra money? ???
I understand it may be a bit easier on filthy first cleans, but don't try and tell us it makes any difference on a normal monthly or bi-monthly clean.
No way.
Indeed, I don't see it happening. Maybe he's talking about fascia's and Conservatories as well though. That would work very well I can imagine, only cracking a pane on a conservatory 'might' be a bit more then £70. :D :)
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it's a diy hot water system.
in my opinion hot speeds the cleaning part of the job up by 20%
and it doesn't matter too much this time as the woman isn't fussed and it was a small window (not costly)
I do intend to lower my temperature a bit to try to reduce the chance of cracking
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I think its good of Dave to admit to cracking the glass and letting us know and maybe we shouldnt give him so much stick as he is just passing on info. What we do about it is up to us as individuals. There are many hot sytems out there now and the general opinion seeems to be they make the job easier.
Dave was it std modern single thickness float glass or small georgian style fine glass ? I also wonder whether the frame was already under some stress ?
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not costly! £70 out of my back pocket would be costly to me lol
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If he's cracked 2 in the summer I dread to think how many will crack in winter..!!
Good job he's earning more to pay for all those windows....... Although the local window company might offer him discount on all the repeat business... ;D
Regards
Mr H
my thoughts aswell
esp by all accounts with the gas bills rising peopl will be sat in cold houses with 3 jumpers and 2 jackets on :P
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tell us if were wrong. but the only difference between hot and cold water is patience and a bit of elbow grease :D
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tell us if were wrong. but the only difference between hot and cold water is patience and a bit of elbow grease :D
The faster you can work = the more money you make though.
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thanks for the support jeff, it was a standard modern double glazed unit
and imo patience and elbow grease cost time and therefore money
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I've got one of these in my van:
www.cgi.ebay.ie/Large-LCD-Aquarium-Thermometer-Vivarium-Incuba-151_W0QQitemZ150276713856QQihZ005QQcategoryZ93679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The probe goes down into the tank, so I can keep an eye on the temp in the winter. In summer its normally around 16 C without any heating of the tank at all.
When its 16C already, the heater on minimum will bring it up another 20C.
Elbow grease is fine if you like that kind of thing, but my personal opinion is that for how little it costs (Diy at least) I made my money back within a month just by working faster. Why scrub if you don't need to?!
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go on then have you cracked any windows?
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For those using DIY heaters...
Do they automatically cut out if water gets above a set temperature???
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I'd be pretty gutted if i cracked a window at £70 a pop. That's ten houses worth on some of my round.
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£70 is not just £70 or work, tax etc etc etc.
As said fair play for the guy for posting this, I personally would use this as a tool.selling angle against anyone with a hot system ;)
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I've not cracked a single window yet (5 months in),.. the winter will tell the full story though.
My heater is "on demand", so the heater is set to the required temp and it just ignites/cuts out as the water flow starts and stops.
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I can`t see how anyone can be cracking windows at the moment,how can you crack glass in the height of summer.
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in summer we all use heated water ;) winter is a difference kettle of fish, NWH is the man that knows the most IMO about this
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I ve not cracked any glass in 2-3 years, either in summer or winter!
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I have been using my new hot water system for a week. It does clean faster for maintenance cleans and much much faster for first cleans. I have used it this week on two commercial jobs, an 11 century listed building, single glazed sash, single glazed georgian and your standard double glazing too.
I have been running at 52 degrees C at the brush head. I have had no cracks, noises or anything else. I know its early days but so far I am happy to use it all day on everything.
I turned it off this afternoon as I was low on diesel but within 5 mins I turned it back on again as cold water was horrible after a week of hot.
20 degrees this weather doesnt seem to do much but 50 degrees is fantastic - one thing for sure my heater is staying on ;)
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kevin you've summed it up beautifully. I can't see anyone who's tried hot going back to cold. I think you've been lucky up to yet at 52 degrees
i've now got a thermostatic mixer valve. the heater keeps kicking on and off and the heat at the brush head is constant
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I'd be pretty gutted if i cracked a window at £70 a pop. That's ten houses worth on some of my round.
That's not critisizing your system, just to say i couldn't take it in my stride like you. :) I snapped a section of my carbon pole once which wiped out the mornings work in about two seconds. ::)
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I did that too a while ago. it is well depressing.
luckily emporium replaced it foc as I had the first pole they sold and I hadn't beeen given the insstruction sheet which said not to lift it from the ground
I think i've just been unlucky and had a couple of stressed windows ???
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By the sounds of things you can go along for months without a problem or in some cases years without a problem then all of a sudden crack!!
If you were doing a first clean I guess the glass has more time to expand, but surely its a fault within the glass / fitting itself? The whole idea of modern double glazed units is they (if glazed correctly) can expand and contract and thus keep the integrity of the cavity intact. Ok I realise single glazing is a different matter altogether.
Would it be possible to write in to your terms and conditions (or have a waiver) that badly fitted glass / damaged etc will not be covered on the first clean? After all are you responsible for the customers defective glass? We have construction clean wavers for badly manufactured glass so why not for this?
Lets face it the guys with hot systems are pioneers, and we should all be working together pooling our experience (as Dave has) as that is ultimately what will become custom and practice in the future.
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I can't see anyone who's tried hot going back to cold.
I've gone back to cold wfp. Only use hot for new cleans, heavily soiled windows, showery weather or if I'm in a rush to complete a job. Prefer to turn my water flow up to compensate for not using hot water and use it cold instead during the summer months. Will probably go back to using hot in the winter when it starts getting cold enough though :)
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but surely its a fault within the glass / fitting itself?
Only if the glass was fitted with the intention of having hot water poured over it.
To be honest that sounds like a bad workman always blames his tools story, it is not the glasses fault.
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By using very hot water on your work over time i would think that you will be gradually weakening the glass,in effect your flexing the glass to extremes say 6-8 times a year in all weathers.The results may be good but as for being good for the glass i can`t think that it is,to get through the winter months isopropanol does the same job IMO,i`ve used it for the last 2 winters and it`s got me through really really cold mornings and has allowed me to carry on working in freezing conditions.
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By using very hot water on your work over time i would think that you will be gradually weakening the glass,in effect your flexing the glass to extremes say 6-8 times a year in all weathers.The results may be good but as for being good for the glass i can`t think that it is,to get through the winter months isopropanol does the same job IMO,i`ve used it for the last 2 winters and it`s got me through really really cold mornings and has allowed me to carry on working in freezing conditions.
So have you given up on hot?
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weakening the glass? you don't really believe that?
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I cracked my 2nd window today on a first clean.
water was at 44 degrees and I was working on that pane for about 40 sseconds as it was proper filthy
it was double glazed upvc. I got an estimate from a local glazier of £70 for cash supplied and fitted and left the money with the custies lad and called her at work to explain.
she was very understanding and chilled about it.
it was only a tiny semi (£15 first clean, £10 thereafter). hope this doesn't become too regular, my last one was about 2 months ago with slightly cooler water!
ah well, making more than enough dosh at the min, so I don't suppose it matters too much
::) ;D
im very friendly with my local glazer even though i have never broke a pane any one ever asks me do i know any good glazers broken seals or whatever and i send the work his way knowing one day he will return the favour if i do crack one
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What an attitude. I'm making money so I dont care if I break a window and have to clean this persons house for the next 6 months to make the money back!!! crazy
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Don`t forget if you break a wooden window you`ve not only got to replace the glass you`ve also got to paint part of the frame aswell,so it`s not just a case of replacing the window or pane of glass.
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i've turned down to 35 degrees now, and I've decided that if i'm gonna be working on a pane for any length of time (ie stubborn mark/very dirty) i'm gonna turn my flow right down.
both broken panes have been on filthy windows with a high flow rate
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both broken panes have been on filthy windows with a high flow rate
Is it the same flow as when you where cold ?
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i've turned down to 35 degrees now, and I've decided that if i'm gonna be working on a pane for any length of time (ie stubborn mark/very dirty) i'm gonna turn my flow right down.
both broken panes have been on filthy windows with a high flow rate
If you turn down the flow of water, surely the smaller amount of water is going to be heated longer, which in turn raises the temperature of the water being used. Wouldn't it be more sensible to use a higher water flow so the water is heated less, so the temperature of the water is cooler, just my thoughts, Maybe I'm wrong ???