Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: [GQC] Tim on July 30, 2008, 12:49:21 pm
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I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, but before I went wfp I read all these threads on how much time it takes to get up to speed. Well I'm not sure if I'm an exception or what, but in my second week I smashed my daily earnings record, and that with 1,5hr to spare.
Yes I had done a lot of research on how to quickly but efficiently clean with a wfp, but what is all this talk about only 40% faster for months etc? In my first month I was already twice as fast? And I was very quick traditional.
I put a lot of that time saving to excellent tools like the SL-X, but still wfp has been an absolute dream for me, it's so easy, I earn atleast a good 100-150 more a day now. With perfect results (I do a lot of insides aswell, and gives you the perfect chance to check the windows).
Only thing that I hate, is top seals that hold drips, not the seals were the water just flows off easily they are easy, but the ones that when you rinse or scrub the top, they just sit there on the seal, they almost always come down as runs after you've finished. And even with oxidized frames, I can still do a good job, thanks to the advice on this forum.
Customers absolutely love it, I haven't had a bad remark, (only one who was furious, last wfp'er they ditched cuz he did a rubbish job, and took me on, because I used trad tools, then switched over, and she was absolutely mad, how could you etc, the windows look terrible, went over there, two windows were bad, builders decided to wash them with a hosepipe, probably washed the brickwork or something, even told the owner I was only there for 20min, while I was there for 2.5hr!! Cleaned them next time, customer was there, and she was delighted, absolutely marvellous how clean you get them she said, big big smile on her face, now that made me happy).
Anyway, customers have been properly trained with introduction letters, and it really helps to sell the system with realistic remarks, not promote is a magic wand, but things like getting your frames cleaned every time really made them smile. Also be careful to not say, there can be spotting in the beginning etc, you need to find the middle way, be honest to your customers about the system, do not create expectations that you cannot live up to. Customers love it, very happy.
I probably should thank this forum with everyone who answered questions, otherwise I'd never come this far.
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Oh, some tips I'd like to share.
When leading up to the switch, give all the frames, especially the top, a very good clean with a damp microfibre, it stinks, and the micros are absolutely black, but it helps so much when starting with wfp.
Another tip that is probably even more important, is stop using fairy asap, every one I spoke to and used fairy, had really bad spotting, because the soapy film on the glass breaks up due to the pure water, and unless you rinse very well, you can get problems.
Use a professional liquid instead, like squeegee off (I used that) or GG3/4 (Glass Gleam), GG3 and GG4 do not have much 'slip' and I couldn't get used to it, squeegee off did, and worked very well.
Also, start properly detailing all the seals, top, bottom and sides, there is where a lot of detergent gathers, and where you can get problems, especially on old seals, that might have detergent in them from decades.
That's all. :)
(sorry, another thing, is always get a bigger van then you think you need, I have a berlingo, but wish I had something bigger, get a 500l tank so you can do a bit of commercial, and fit a trigger on the pole, you'll save loads of water)
cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trigger-Valve-Spray-Ideal-for-Water-Fed-Pole-Systems_W0QQitemZ380006720947QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trigger-Valve-Spray-Ideal-for-Water-Fed-Pole-Systems_W0QQitemZ380006720947QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
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I found on my first day wfp (and yes of course there was additional enthusiasm with having a new toy) that my earnings were 50% more than trad. Never looked back.
£150.00 a day EXTRA, thats something...
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Another dig at Trad :'(
Tim I am happy that you are loving WFP and keep up the good work.. But remember
TRAD RULES :P
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How long have you been WFP?
Bob
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trad is diyeing
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Tim, those triggers you mentioned, do they need to be held in position all the time to maintain the flow of water ??
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however quick you are now will be nothing compared to how quick you will be in a years time.
Glad it's going well for you. :)
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so you reckon stop using fairy and go with certain liquids?
anyone else agree here?
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Always said the same, get the best tools for the job, bouncy glass poles & oval brushes are a handicap before you even start IMO!
Pole & brush have the biggest impact on how easy your day is gonna be & how good a job you're gonna make in the least time! ;)
Tony
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Tim, if you really were a very quick trad window cleaner, like you say, this has to be a wind up. I'm 15% max quicker after 3 years of wfp. I work as quick as the other wfp guys in the area, I work with a couple on a few big schools.
Is it the type of work that leads to the huge gains? No offence, but I find this hard to believe, impossible actually, having been there and done (well, doing) it. Certain commercial jobs I understand after a clean or two. But in your 2nd week? Come on...
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fair play to ya you must have picked up a hell of alot of extra work in short period of time..
whats the secret... or you telling porkys pies....
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Tim, if you really were a very quick trad window cleaner, like you say, this has to be a wind up. I'm 15% max quicker after 3 years of wfp. I work as quick as the other wfp guys in the area, I work with a couple on a few big schools.
Is it the type of work that leads to the huge gains? No offence, but I find this hard to believe, impossible actually, having been there and done (well, doing) it. Certain commercial jobs I understand after a clean or two. But in your 2nd week? Come on...
15% quicker,no offense Joe but you can`t be quick with the pole.If it was only 15% quicker i`d be crying into my tea as we speak.A very fair gauge would be to say that over the course of a week if you just plod along with the pole and don`t really go for it you will knock at least a day off of your working week,you must be doing to much scrubbing.The comment about the longer you`ve been doing it the quicker it gets is so so true aswell,if your doing jobs on a regular basis the window`s hardly need scrubbing,sometimes it`s so quick it`s cringeable.
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2 weeks and your a lot faster is telling me you are setting yourself up for a fall.
but if you are faster now wait for a few more months down the line experience gains time knowing where to stand ect with the pole, where to put hose, where to start etc etc etc etc in 2 weeks you cant gain this knowledge unless you clean every customers windows daily then I guess it can be done.
Good that you are excited though ;)
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I would say also that if your as quick as you say you are in such a short time there`s no way your doing a top job,for 1 you don`t know what to look for from the ground to know there clean in such a short time doing it.I`m not knocking you i`m just saying at the start i was the same,i thought that was easy and on inspection some of the work was sub standard and if it was me i wouldn`t have paid for it.Keep keen though in about 6 months WC will seem like a hobby ;D ;D ;D ;D lol.
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Tim, if you really were a very quick trad window cleaner, like you say, this has to be a wind up. I'm 15% max quicker after 3 years of wfp. I work as quick as the other wfp guys in the area, I work with a couple on a few big schools.
Is it the type of work that leads to the huge gains? No offence, but I find this hard to believe, impossible actually, having been there and done (well, doing) it. Certain commercial jobs I understand after a clean or two. But in your 2nd week? Come on...
15% quicker,no offense Joe but you can`t be quick with the pole.If it was only 15% quicker i`d be crying into my tea as we speak.A very fair gauge would be to say that over the course of a week if you just plod along with the pole and don`t really go for it you will knock at least a day off of your working week,you must be doing to much scrubbing.The comment about the longer you`ve been doing it the quicker it gets is so so true aswell,if your doing jobs on a regular basis the window`s hardly need scrubbing,sometimes it`s so quick it`s cringeable.
Well, a day a week you say. Thats 20%, I'm saying 15%, thats not a whole lot.
To give some background, I am 33 and started at 17. So I was young and experienced as a trad cleaner towards the end. I did tend to "run" all day, and enjoy it as I play a lot of a sport. That may explain the 5%?
To get more specific. Lets take a little road I do. 8 houses. All 3 bed semi's. Modern houses, with standard upvc windows. 1 van move, 2 locked gates. The houses are basic, not tiny, but almost all young families, you probably know the type.
I took 2 hours on a normal day using trad methods. That allowed for no tea drinking and decent weather.
I am now taking 1 hr 40 minutes with the pole, allowing for no tea drinking, or bad weather.
I charge 7.50 per house (south west), and regard it as a nice little patch for me.
Do either off those times sound out of sort to what you would expect?
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I`m not calling you a liar Joe but what i can say is some houses are not really suitable for the pole,with some you will only knock a bit of time off but the thing to do to really get yourself saving loads of time is to refine all your work so that it is suitable for WFP work.I do mainly large domestic when i`m doing houses not cul-de-sacs or the like there to time consuming when you compare them to large houses,some houses that used to take me 2.30 - 3hrs trad can take as little as 45 mins now.If your doing terrace houses you can knock loads and loads out if your only doing fronts but if you have to do backs aswell the time saved is lost on the backs because of access etc,Some may say that WFP is 2-3 times quicker and the chances are these people have different work to another WC that says he`s lying.
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I`m not calling you a liar Joe but what i can say is some houses are not really suitable for the pole,with some you will only knock a bit of time off but the thing to do to really get yourself saving loads of time is to refine all your work so that it is suitable for WFP work.I do mainly large domestic when i`m doing houses not cul-de-sacs or the like there to time consuming when you compare them to large houses,some houses that used to take me 2.30 - 3hrs trad can take as little as 45 mins now.If your doing terrace houses you can knock loads and loads out if your only doing fronts but if you have to do backs aswell the time saved is lost on the backs because of access etc,Some may say that WFP is 2-3 times quicker and the chances are these people have different work to another WC that says he`s lying.
That would make sense. I spent many years building up a tip top trad round only for some git to start this pole business! ::) Still I paid off my mortgage as a trad cleaner, (bar 2 years wfp) so I can take that as some comfort.
200 quid a day is rare for me though, maybe I need to start getting out after work that fits the pole better. Saying the local wfp guys I know are also on about 150-170 a day.
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The obvious time saving comes with leaded windows. ;)
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If you have no mortgage you laughing anyway,we all strive for that luxury.What do we all say about work well it pays the mortgage,if you don`t have 1 life must be a lot easier for you you git,saying that i only have a small 1 lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ooh Errr. :o
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The obvious time saving comes with leaded windows. ;)
Even more so with Georgian
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If you have no mortgage you laughing anyway,we all strive for that luxury.What do we all say about work well it pays the mortgage,if you don`t have 1 life must be a lot easier for you you git,saying that i only have a small 1 lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well, I bought my house when I was young, so it isn't as impressive as it seems. The house was only 50k.
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I put a lot of that time saving to excellent tools like the SL-X, but still wfp has been an absolute dream for me, it's so easy, I earn atleast a good 100-150 more a day now. With perfect results
I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation , but you have failed to tell how you can increase your earnings by £100 - £150 a day more :o
You are twice as fast now, so where is all the extra £25,000+ of work coming from ?
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I put a lot of that time saving to excellent tools like the SL-X, but still wfp has been an absolute dream for me, it's so easy, I earn atleast a good 100-150 more a day now. With perfect results
I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation , but you have failed to tell how you can increase your earnings by £100 - £150 a day more :o
You are twice as fast now, so where is all the extra £25,000+ of work coming from ?
Leave him alone John he`s just keen lol. ;D ;D ;D
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Well i dont no what am doing wrong ???
am either slower or the same speed as trad!
and sometimes dont come up as good :'(
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Leave him alone John he`s just keen lol. ;D ;D ;D
Keen.......I'd say he's absolutely brilliant ;D
If someone comes on here bragging and the figures don't quite add up, then I just need additional info, not my fault I'm thick ;D
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Well i dont no what am doing wrong ???
am either slower or the same speed as trad!
and sometimes dont come up as good :'(
Dave don`t forget to turn the water on lol. ;D ;D
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I have no doubt that wfp is quicker than trad generally, so you should be able to make more money or do your week quicker. But there are windows and there are windows and there are windows. Loads of them, lots of different types, shapes, positions, frames, paint, bad seals etc etc. I did a house today for the 4th or 5th time today wfp. All perfect except one. Same as every time. Don't know why, but it will be quicker for me to trad it. I have been using wfp for a year now and am still learning how best to clean the houses I know. Some are all wfp, a few all trad, some wfp up and trad down. Some like the one mentioned - got a "rogue" window. My advice would be remember you are a window cleaner, not a wfp w/c or a trad w/c. Get the windows clean the best way you can. ;)
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You would be very surprised there`s a lot of people that have got into this business in the last 5 years or so that have never picked up a blade and scrim and have no intension of doing either.I know what you mean but there are WC`s around that will only WFP and WFP only except the odd inside window.Mainly they have bought into the business ie ionic done a course purchased some work and off they go not like us blokes that have maybe done trad for 10-15 years.
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i forgot to mention that i never encountered any problems or unhappy customers until the 3rd month. It was only half a dozen but it felt like my round was rebelling at the time.
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You would be very surprised there`s a lot of people that have got into this business in the last 5 years or so that have never picked up a blade and scrim and have no intension of doing either.I know what you mean but there are WC`s around that will only WFP and WFP only except the odd inside window.Mainly they have bought into the business ie ionic done a course purchased some work and off they go not like us blokes that have maybe done trad for 10-15 years.
Good point, albeit a depressing one :( Maybe I was lucky in that I didn't go into this as a career. I was looking for something to do and started helping a mate (trad). My business grew from that. It annoys me when I read on here people advising others to go straight for a van system at great expense. Money well spent if they know what they are doing (i.e. know what a clean window looks like) and are intent on continuing in the business. But it's not the way to dip your toe in the water.
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You would be very surprised there`s a lot of people that have got into this business in the last 5 years or so that have never picked up a blade and scrim and have no intension of doing either.I know what you mean but there are WC`s around that will only WFP and WFP only except the odd inside window.Mainly they have bought into the business ie ionic done a course purchased some work and off they go not like us blokes that have maybe done trad for 10-15 years.
That's me, never lifted a squeegie in anger untill i had to. Never went on a course mind, or bought work but for the first year i didn't need a blade in my toolkit. It is quite possible to be purely wfp.
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im about 10 % faster on my round and thats the truth
im not using WFP for extra earning though, its about being stood on the ground and knowing im safer
but we have people on here who earn 500 quid a day, so it must work ok ::)
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I needed a career pretty sharpish and spotted a van system on the net and thought "i can do that" and anyone with half a brain can. Cleaning's the easy bit the hard bit is building a quality round - takes years from scratch and i'm not there yet.
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im about 10 % faster on my round and thats the truth
im not using WFP for extra earning though, its about being stood on the ground and knowing im safer
but we have people on here who earn 500 quid a day, so it must work ok ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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im about 10 % faster on my round and thats the truth
im not using WFP for extra earning though, its about being stood on the ground and knowing im safer
but we have people on here who earn 500 quid a day, so it must work ok ::)
Yep, I broke two of my records last week. Daily and weekly earnings. Neither started with 5 ;) ;)
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It`s amazing the potential in this business,last week i earned 200 quid lol. ;D ;D
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ifyou can do an extra 100 to 150 a day you are about to encounter a HUGE black hole in your round
probably some time next week ;Di forgot to mention that i never encountered any problems or unhappy customers until the 3rd month. It was only half a dozen but it felt like my round was rebelling at the time.
i agree with mark on this
a rash of problems and complaints about 3 months in
almost all resolved in the end tho
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Tim, if you really were a very quick trad window cleaner, like you say, this has to be a wind up. I'm 15% max quicker after 3 years of wfp. I work as quick as the other wfp guys in the area, I work with a couple on a few big schools.
Is it the type of work that leads to the huge gains? No offence, but I find this hard to believe, impossible actually, having been there and done (well, doing) it. Certain commercial jobs I understand after a clean or two. But in your 2nd week? Come on...
15% quicker,no offense Joe but you can`t be quick with the pole.If it was only 15% quicker i`d be crying into my tea as we speak.A very fair gauge would be to say that over the course of a week if you just plod along with the pole and don`t really go for it you will knock at least a day off of your working week,you must be doing to much scrubbing.The comment about the longer you`ve been doing it the quicker it gets is so so true aswell,if your doing jobs on a regular basis the window`s hardly need scrubbing,sometimes it`s so quick it`s cringeable.
Well, a day a week you say. Thats 20%, I'm saying 15%, thats not a whole lot.
To give some background, I am 33 and started at 17. So I was young and experienced as a trad cleaner towards the end. I did tend to "run" all day, and enjoy it as I play a lot of a sport. That may explain the 5%?
To get more specific. Lets take a little road I do. 8 houses. All 3 bed semi's. Modern houses, with standard upvc windows. 1 van move, 2 locked gates. The houses are basic, not tiny, but almost all young families, you probably know the type.
I took 2 hours on a normal day using trad methods. That allowed for no tea drinking and decent weather.
I am now taking 1 hr 40 minutes with the pole, allowing for no tea drinking, or bad weather.
I charge 7.50 per house (south west), and regard it as a nice little patch for me.
Do either off those times sound out of sort to what you would expect?
I live in the south west of Devon and I wouldn't do them for £7.50.... ask more, quite a bit more. And you could do 2 semis with conservatories in an hour doing new cleans, easy if you're up to speed and 4 if you're a whizz kid trad who's young :)
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Right, haven't been one there for the day, but there is a lot of explaining I need to do. I'll reply to everything.
Tim, those triggers you mentioned, do they need to be held in position all the time to maintain the flow of water ??
Yes you do, but it's like second nature now, and I haven't had a cramp or similar over the last 2,5months of wfp. It only takes a finger to depress it, very easy, you won't even now you're using it after a day or two.
I would say also that if your as quick as you say you are in such a short time there`s no way your doing a top job,for 1 you don`t know what to look for from the ground to know there clean in such a short time doing it.I`m not knocking you i`m just saying at the start i was the same,i thought that was easy and on inspection some of the work was sub standard and if it was me i wouldn`t have paid for it.Keep keen though in about 6 months WC will seem like a hobby ;D ;D ;D ;D lol.
While I very much appreciate your comments like always, the first time I went round my work I checked all my windows before I left, and I have left them in good condition, very very satisfied with the work, and I'm very hard to please. I know exactly what to look for from the ground, please don't tarnish me with the same brush. But please do tell me, because I can still very much learn a lot, I'm certain of that. :)
2 weeks and your a lot faster is telling me you are setting yourself up for a fall.
but if you are faster now wait for a few more months down the line experience gains time knowing where to stand ect with the pole, where to put hose, where to start etc etc etc etc in 2 weeks you cant gain this knowledge unless you clean every customers windows daily then I guess it can be done.
Good that you are excited though ;)
Thanks Ian, but before I started wfp, I kept my eyes open were I would lay the hose and everything, and how I would tackle a particular property with wfp, when I started using it, it just went all very natural, knew exactly where to lay the hose etc, yes I did get in a tangle with the hose now and then, but that was to be expected. I'm sure I will get even faster, I just noticed that on the vast majority of my work, I am literally twice as fast.
Now here is where I need to clarify how I worked traditionally. I always used a ladderm8rix, and that took a couple of extra minutes per job, and I always walked atleast twice to my van for that, now it's once for my wfp, and hose. I reckon that will save a lot of time, because I always put my ladder up the safest way, get ladder first, then walk back to previous window, get ladderm8rix, put it under ladder at the next window. So I'm sure that's where I gained lots of time too.
It's not just georgian, I actually find that with normal panes, I'm really quick now too, I'm on my second go through the work, and I'm absolutely flying, I so enjoy it. :)
I put a lot of that time saving to excellent tools like the SL-X, but still wfp has been an absolute dream for me, it's so easy, I earn atleast a good 100-150 more a day now. With perfect results
I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation , but you have failed to tell how you can increase your earnings by £100 - £150 a day more :o
You are twice as fast now, so where is all the extra £25,000+ of work coming from ?
Haha, yea that can look very strange, I didn't just get 25000+, I was behind quite a lot with work, so I've had to work like a madman, hence I earned that much more, not because I picked up that much more work everyday. Maybe a 150 was a bit on the positive side, but definitely over a 100 more a day. :)
Sorry for the confusion. :)
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My first time around my round with WFP was actually slower than with trad because I decided to treat them like first cleans. I had prepared some windows for WFP but there's only so much you can do. The second time was about on par. In fact, because it took me so much longer, I didn't convert them all over at once. It was from about the fourth time around that I really noticed some benefit. The work that was a 6 week plod with trad became a 3 and a half week plod with WFP. So there were plenty of gaps to fill.