Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: John Gregory on July 24, 2008, 04:24:33 pm
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Came across this suite this morning whist cleaning an old dears carpets , the antique finish comes off with just water , apart from that the leather looks spot on under the microscope , the old dear in question has't got a pot to p--s in . so I 'am not going to be able to make a lot of money , I wound just like to rectify the problem as cheaply as possible .and hopefully get 1 step closer to going to heaven
what do you reckon John
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A can of Pigment Finish in a Can (Black) will make this look wonderful again.
Apply sparingly and this will come up a treat. This sort of restoration is very easy to do compared to the modern 2 tone finishes that are on the market.
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Thanks Judy , what about black brit . and then how do I stop the problem reoccurring
John
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You can use black BRIT in the same way and finish over the top. The finish that eventually just wiped off with a cloth had been broken down over time and wear and this is what they were designed to do but obviously as in this case there is a point when this is too much and it needs replacing.
Finishing and then applying Leather Protect will take it back to near original state and the colour will not wipe off as before.
The pigment in a can has a finish in it (polyurethane) but overspraying with Satin Gloss and Matt or Semi Matt will give it a really robust finish to help prevent wear. This is not necessary if you want to cut costs.
Always finish with a coat of Leather Protect.
You need to spray outward from each of the diamonds from a small airbrush if you use BRIT (otherwise you will apply too much product) and if you spray from the centre of the diamond this will also apply too much black to the centres of each diamond shape. Practice spraying before you leap in to the work itself. On the cushions you will have to get the feel of how much to apply but best to apply a little and dry off and then add more rather than try to do the whole lot at once.
Hope this helps
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Thanks again Judy . what about the preparation before I even go near with Brit , If I go near this suite with any sort of cleaning agent I am going to make problem worst , please remember working on a very tight budget
John
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John you will need a couple of tins for this and then a couple of tins of top coat prob about £50 off LTT.
Furniture Clinic will do the correct purple antique ( not black) dye to spray on its about £12. Then just finish with gloss top coat as normal.
These are easy jobs you can knock out at 150 quid and take about an hour. Ask Pete ( Oakleaf) He did a similar one this week ( his first) with no probs. If its a customer you dont want to make much money out of then Just charge £50 which will cover all your costs and give you a nice drink ;).
I will be covering this on the boot camp.
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You certainly won't need as much product as that John and the colour was generally black for the top coat of these or a mixture of the base coat with black which would give a reddy/ pruply top coat but most of the time black looks perfectly correct unless it is oversprayed (which is generally what happens and why it would look like the wrong colour). Pigment in a can also comes in many other colours if required and BRIT you can obviously mix to any colour top coat you want.
I would hate to see anyone applying as much finish as 2 cans on a job like this and you can purchase the products in bulk to put through an airbrush which will make the job cheaper. The reason we put a coat of Matt or semi matt over the Satin Gloss is that it gives a really nice feel to the leather and will always help with friction wear and soiling.
Pigment in a can is a polyurethane coating in itself so is not absolutely necessary to finish over the top so the cheapest way would be with a single can of pigment and give it a careful spray, these are very easy straight forward jobs to do.
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You certainly won't need as much product as that John and the colour was generally black for the top coat of these or a mixture of the base coat with black which would give a reddy/ pruply top coat but most of the time black looks perfectly correct unless it is oversprayed (which is generally what happens and why it would look like the wrong colour). Pigment in a can also comes in many other colours if required and BRIT you can obviously mix to any colour top coat you want.
I would hate to see anyone applying as much finish as 2 cans on a job like this and you can purchase the products in bulk to put through an airbrush which will make the job cheaper. The reason we put a coat of Matt or semi matt over the Satin Gloss is that it gives a really nice feel to the leather and will always help with friction wear and soiling.
Pigment in a can is a polyurethane coating in itself so is not absolutely necessary to finish over the top so the cheapest way would be with a single can of pigment and give it a careful spray, these are very easy straight forward jobs to do.
John dont forget you will need to gently clean all the suite down first before appling the antique. ( one can may be enough for just this sofa but you will go through 2 for the whole suite).
Also when you clean it you will remove a lot more of the black so you will end up appling more than you first thought.
Also if this is your first time dont use black as you will over apply and make it look too black, buy the purple mix from Furniture clinic as you will find it easier to use and it wont black as quick.
Finally always apply a light coating of finish after wards, just because the pigment is pu and a little stronger does not mean it wont wear off, of course it will but by applying a finish over it means it will last much longer.
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Oh and there is a certain way to spray the antique on a chesterfield, start at the button and spray out wards in a star formation if that makes sense, those areas should be slightly darker.
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The only reason colours look too black is because they have been overapplied and they do not allow the base colour to show through. These colours need applying a little at a time and at a controlled spray - once you get used to how it looks the technique is quite easy - practice on a cardboard box before you start.
The pigment in a can has a very robust finish in it and does not necessarily need an overspray of finish as I have already explained. We understand our products very well.
John give us a ring if you need any further help on this one.
Cheers
Judy
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Paul
I'm beginning to think you're taking yourself too seriously. Not suggesting you lack some knowledge and ability, but considering the very short time you've been involved in cleaning leather, I would take exception to your posts, if I was in Leather training / supplying.
The only difference is, I would take things a hell of a lot further than LTT
I've trained with both Ltt and Fc and have been impressed by all concerned. As far as I'm concerned, the personalities of individuals in supply companies, would have little bearing on whether I, or other people will deal with them and that's how it should be.
There are probably a dozen or maybe 12 dozen people who read your interventions and cringe, as they know a lot more than you, or I, having been formally trained by professional trainers in the safest and most productive methods of cleaning and restoration and had longer to practice.
It's very easy to whip up support and enthusiasm in people who want to learn " quick and easy " but sometimes, it's a very fine line that divides success and failure.
Failure, can be very expensive.
robert
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John dont practice on a cardboard box. For gods sake.
Red pigmented suite being 2 toned antiqued against a carboard box, hey thats going to give you a good like for like practice.
Guys this is why advice from people doing it live every day come into play against a trainner in a comfy enviroment with no time pressures and plenty of stock at hand.
Judy this is Johns first crack at this so he is prob going to over apply in certain areas until he gets the jist of it, which means he may need to remove the antique finish and start again to get the look right.
If he does go down the road of using your products then advise him right and he will need 2 tins not 1. He may run out of product because of inexperience or a duff can that gives up half way through then he will need a second can as back up.
These type of things we work with day in and day out and like all the other cleaning and restoration we do we also have to problem solve.
We are under pressure for different things like time, price, phone calls, first time etc etc. We are not in a nice safe enviroment with lots of spray cans at our disposal in the storeroom.
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John please practice on a cardboard box before you start. Better than practicing on the suite itself. That is where problems start when people rush in to do a job without any practice or experience.
This is to get the feel of how the spray can works and will give you a great idea of the flow etc of the pigment before you trun your attention to the suite itself.
It is a very useful way of looking at spray patterns from cans and airbrushes and we use it all the time when we are doing this type of work. This will help you to not over apply the product and will help you to get the feel of how much you need to apply.
It is these sort of tips that are very very useful from Andy who has over 25 years of experience in doing this kind of work and has made all the mistakes and wants to help technicians on the road not to make the same ones so the advice we give is always to help having worked in all kinds of situations and experiences - we understand all the pressures which is why we add as much information as we can to help technicians do work with confidence.
PS We were in London yesterday restoring a lambskin micro pigment in a shop under pressure ;D or do our day to day experiences not count!!!!!
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Was it the shop we discussed Judy?
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Yes Mark it was - very tricky job but it turned out very well and they were very pleased with the results. Thanks for putting them in touch with us. This is the sort of job we like as it tests all our techniques to the limit. Look forward to seeing you soon on a course.
Cheers
Judy
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Nice place Judy. very testing fabrics, hope you took some buisness cards with you ;) will be up for a a course soon.
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Mark hope you got a bit of commission
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Just to clarify
Should we buy one can and practice on a cardboard box
or
Two cans and not practice on a cardboard box.
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Get an old chair from the tip and practise on that, how are your websites doing Gary?
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All down at the moment Dave!!!
Long story :-X
I will email you, it will give you a laugh ;)
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Gary I've been cleaning leather for many years and can assure you that Andy of LTT is a highly professional and experienced man, who not only carries out training in this country for individuals but for people like Reid Furniture, also, he spent a long time training in the U S.
In addition to training and selling products Ltt carry out leather cleaning for clients, in their homes and in their workshop.
God knows why this continuous attack goes on, but I'm afraid any respect I had for Paul Moss has gone with his last post, denegrating a professional of the highest calibre.
Any industry treasures their professionals, while putting up with the inevetible " would be's " who come and go.
robert m
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I've antiqued a sofa like this before I quite enjoyed it, the customer was extractic. I think what Paul said about when cleaning down you'll take some more of the black antique effect dye off is true so you will have to allow for that in your amount of application.
Ben at FC showed me my first respray on an antique chesterfield exactly the same and there is an art but it is very easily picked up, 1st you press your finger down in the middle of the cushion and watch the crease appear in lines then apply black on these lines and then where yout finger indent has been, then feather the piping, it is essential to apply finish as to keep the dye on/in the leather.
I did the one at FC with black dye but now they sell darker purples which are more blended in my opinion but Judy's spray dye in a can sounds a very good starter, personally if you don't have spray equipment I'd use that and a spray finish although I have not used LTT stuff to date.
But please note cans of dye and finish will be more expensive then buying concentrates so add it onto the price.
Best of luck.
Shaun
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Rob, I do not doubt that Andy & Judy are good at what they do. It is the constant bickering from them though over the months ( if not years ) that wears me down, every post from anyone regarding leather is countered with another LTT option. And even they would have to admit that they have not gone about answering questions and getting into debates on here in the right and professional way at times.
We all clean carpets different from each other, use different chemicals and different techniques.
There is more than one way to skin a cat ( I have tried :P ) and more than one way to clean leather.
But my overall impression is with LTT, it is their way or the wrong way.
Just my opinion :-*
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Perhaps you are correct Gary, my thoughts are that we are all behind a monitor so we can say what we like and it doesn't come across with the same feeling or intent.
I have had the same thoughts but they do offer a different approach and technically know their stuff, I've decided to stop antagonizing and start learning.
Ben at FC sometimes posts on here, Roger Keo I think has decided enough is enough which I feel is a shame, let's not drive a wedge between us when we are getting free advice.
Shaun
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Rob you lose respect for people every other month, a few months ago it was LTT now its me, in my opinion and prob most others your just a pain in the bum full stop, an old timer thats done a bit of this and a bit of that but not realy good at anything,a Dinosaur comes into my head ;D.
I know LTT are excellent trainers and Andy Allcock is prob the best in the country, its not Andy my remarks are made at as if you read you will see they are at Judy.
Its her attitude to jump on everything and demand her way of doing it at the same time as pushing her products forward,because of this some of my posts are tongue in cheek to wind her up. However Shauns point on bickering is spot on and Its time to stop winding her up and be more professional ( me that is) 8)
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is this why he got banned, used to be a detective me????
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yeah clint, i was the one on the drums that no one ever remembers,
rooooxxxxxxxannne!!!!!
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;D