Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve Chapman on July 17, 2008, 04:52:37 pm
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Have cleaned a few pigmented leather suites but have been asked to clean an
italian aniline leather suite which is stained and badly faded, have not seen it
yet but will post some pics when i have been!
Apparently the stains are from polystyrene boxes !? and then faded by being
in the sun too long!
Before you say dont bother, he has told me that he will tip it if i cant do
anything with it, but is happy for it to be re coloured and not bothered about
what shade or if its a lot darker, so i guess its worth a shot.
Anyhow my question is,whats the best product to clean with and how, and can
I re colour it with the leather balm form furniture clinic?
I've already told him the stains probably wont come out, but he just wants it to
look half reasonable, since he paid a lot of money for it a few years ago!
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Dont say walk away as i like a good challenge ;D
steve
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Steve
That's a gem of a job to play with and get experience.
Have you looked on the FC trade area guides?
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See Dr Moss.. You can only recolour it to the colour of the darkest stain or part of couch. I think its a realy long tedious job though?
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Its quite easy to apply a restoration dye to an analine - speak to Andy at LTT, the way he showed me was simple. Mind you I'm not saying I have got the balls to attempt it myself yet !
Steve
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Hi Steve,
To clean the leather it's best to use a brush and leather cleaner together, apply the cleaner to the brush as a foam and then clean the leather. Be prepared to have to clean it 2 or 3 times, each time you clean it will start to look better.
We just cleaned a really light coloured aniline and had to do it 3 times to get really good results - it took the best part of a day so don't charge too little.
As for the stains, cleaning may reduce them. You can apply the re-colouring balm once the leather has been cleaned to restore the colour, this will also help blend the stains in.
To get a good fix on the stains, mix up a small pot of colourant and spray it lightly over the stain to blend it in. If done correctly you can't really tell where the stain was, and it should blend it very well, despite the leather being aniline.
See the pics below.
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Aniline leathers do not clean well and little time needs to be spent doing this.
The key is to use aniline dyes to recolour which will soak into the leather (these are the original aniline dyes that were used to colour it in the first place). They are not sprayed on as this leaves the product sitting on the surface but the dye is easily applied by hand and soaks into the leather to recolur it. You can usually apply the product 2 - 3 times before it will not take any more. Recolouring will help blend in the stains that are there but will not recolour them as this is the nature of the leather. Applying products that sit on the surface and cover over stains are not aniline resotration products and will change the nature of the leather.
The process is very simple and fairly quick but you can charge good money as the results are so impressive. It is well worth having a go if he is willing. The good thing about aniline dyes is that the colour mixing is simple and the system never fails, it cannot peel off or crack and will last a long time. A light finish can be applied which will make the furniture more durable.
The beauty of aniline restoration is that you do not have to worry about grease problmes as the dyes will penetrate these if required. Using pigments or pigment based products that sit on the surface will require degreasing as they will not adhere properly in those areas.
The picture shows a very well used aniline half way through restoration.
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Thanks all for the speedy replies
to sum up then,
to clean i just use the same standard leather cleaner but as a foam and with a brush?
the leather balm will not re colour it as such, but just restore the colour a little?
to get a decent finish i need to use aniline dye and apply by cloth?
am i on the right track here?
regards
steve
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That sounds about right.
Cleaning with a foam is the standard way to clean and just agitate with a sponge, most of the product will be soaked up anyway by the leather (depending on how dry it is) but it is always wise to do this first as then the aniline dyes will not be 'grabbed ' too quickly by the leather.
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Judy/Andy it sounds easier than redyeing pigmented is that correct?
Just simply 'wipe it in/on'?
Shaun
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Judy do you need a swatch to match the dye or is it a standard off the shelf dye.
results look impressive.
Paul
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Aniline restoration is much easier than pigment restoration and is great because it cannot fail. The aniline dyes are a wipe on product and should not be sprayed as this would allow them to sit on the surface - you actually want them to soak iinto the leather.
It is not a long tedious job and is one of the most straightforward processes there is in the restoration side of leather.
Colour mixing is simple and although you can have a custom mix done to match a swatch you really can do it yourself. There are 7 base colours but 2 of those are blue and green so these are not generally required. You cannot really change the colour on anilines (occassionally you may be able to go darker if required) but you can dye back to the original colour which will help blend any stains that are already there as you can see on the photo above.
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Reading this post with interest just had a email come throu askiing for a quote on a analine 3 and 2 seater , so after applying the dye is there any way of protecting the leather
John
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You can add an aniline satin gloss finish which will give it a much more hard wearing surface than it probably had in the first place (this also comes in tinted colours to help blend and add more colour on seriously faded leathers) but if you do not want to finish you simply use Ultra Protect which is the most effective protector on this type of leather. This will inhibit body oils and spillages from being absorbed into the leather and also has a UV protector in it to help resist fading (although over time it will always continuse to fade due to the nature of the leather).
Protecting is always crucial on anilines and should always be done although most consumers are not told this at the point of sale.
Hope this helps
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Judy have you got a trade price list for dyes?
Also is the finish you use the same as your gloss finish for pigmented leather?
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Steve,
The only way to fix those stains is to spray a colourant on top of the leather. Unless the stains can be removed.
Restoring the colour to aniline leather isn't difficult as it soaks up what you apply, either the balm or dye.
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Hi Ben,
Why spray the colourant rather than applying with a cloth, does it make a difference? & are you talking about just treating the stains before re colouring the whole area?
cheers
steve
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Spraying anything onto the surface of an aniline will leave the colour on the surface. If the colourant is a pigment then this will change the nature of what the leather is ie. turn an aniline style into a pigment coated (not normally what the customer would want) There may also be issues with adhesion if the aniline has any wax/oil finish on it.
Aniline colours will not get rid of staining but will help to blend them in whilst retaining the character of the leather.
Aniline restoration products come in a variety of sizes
150ml £7.50
250ml £8.50
1L £30.00
and are available in red, yellow, black, brown, green, blue, orange
We can also do a custom mix in any of the above sizes which adds about £10.00 to the cost
The finish we use on anilines is the same base finish (Satin Gloss) that we would use during the finishing process on pigments (a very light product but very strong finish) but the ones we use on anilines generally have a colour content (tinted finish) which will further enhance the colour. The finishes with colour in are not as strong a product as the transparent finish because as soon as you add a colour content you weaken the finish however these are ideal for anilines and will not detract in any way from its character
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hi andy/judy, can you tell me when the next day 2 course is,
i know richard williams who you trained last course and he recommended the day 2,
cheers
derek
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Hi
The next availability for the 2 days is September 11th an 12th. We are full y booked until then and it would be wise to book soon as our September, October and November courses are filling up fast.
Richard really enjoyed the course.
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yeah he said he enjoyed it to, i enjoyed the iicrc that you took, 90% pass rate, quite happy with that. think i'll book for the september one. might even try day 3 aswell. what day is analine dyeing?
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Aniline dyeing is done on Day 1
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thought day 1 was cleaning and history like we did at the iicrc, looks like i'll have to book the lot, ive got one of your schedules somewhere, i'll read up before i book, see whats best. cheers andy/judy
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Steve,
You need to spray the colour on. Applying by sponge or cloth wouldn't belnd it in - it wiould apply the colour too dark.
Judy,
I know it's turing the leather into a pigmented leather, but it's only part of the leather it touches, not the whole thing. If done well, you'd never notice.
And the customer would always prefer it to be sprayed than have a stain, im pretty sure of that one!
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Never had any problems dealing with the stains and customers are always happy to accept them if they are well blended in and find that this is far preferable to having pigment put on the top with its potential problems. Once the customer understands the nature of the leather they have they accept the outcome very readily as it is so stunning.
Usually the reason they bought the furniture in the first place was for the look and feel and if this is altered then they are not happy.
Pigments can be used to repair damage to anilines but this takes a lot of experience and know how to get it right so is not something that can be done as a matter of course.
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Heres the pictures of the suite, i think its more likely a nubuck as the it has a slight pile to the surface on the arms, although the rest is very dry and faded,
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another one
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and another
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can i still dye this the same way ?
the guy is not looking for a miracle just wants it to look half decent
steve
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Hi Steve
This is definitely an aniline style leather that will benefit from the aniline dye system and the result will be stunning.
The 'nubuck' areas are caused by the leather being worn and abraded but will still dye with the rest of it.
This is a very dry and faded sample but we have had great success with the aniline dye system and have posted pictures earlier of the results. The stains and other problems that have soaked into the leather will not disappear but they are blended in and the whole thing will take on a much richer appearance. Most of the time clients think there is nothing that can be done with these leathers but they are always worth restoring.
The major staining on the last photo (this may be removeable depending on the cause) but if not removeable will not entirely disappear but there is a lot that can be done with aniline tinted finishes to really help blend this sort of damage without changing the nature of the leather.
Most people buy this type of leather becasue they like the look of it and to add any sort of pigment would not only be risky but would change the appearance and the texture.
Hope this helps
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cheers,
is the dye a wipe on product and do i need to get a swatch from the leather or can i just mix a colour for it?
The arms were actually less worn than the rest and it was here that had a fine pile to it, you might be able to see the brush marks in the photo, will this make any difference to the dying ?
regards
steve
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That looks bad Steve. Hope it comes up good and you show piccys.
Judy - we spoke on phone week last Friday.
I put the proposal of what needed doing to the L shape unit, but suggested a charge of £200 - £250 as I though it would be a 4 + hour job then 1.5 total travel.
Hes not gone for it (he was thinking but not come back).
Was I too high with the hours estimation!!
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Hi Steve
The dye is a wipe on product and not very difficult to use - we can help with further directions if you want as there are a few things that you need to be aware of that are easier to explain over the phone rather than on the forum.
Colour mixing is very easy (nothing like matching pigment colours) so you would be able to do this yourself although we can custom mix for you if you want. A straight brown would probably be OK if the customer is not too worried about it being returned to an original colour.
The slightly 'nubucked' areas will not affect the dyeing process.
The whole thing should be cleaned as much as is possible prior to dyeing as this will reintroduce moisture to the dry leather and stop the dye being 'grabbed' quite so quickly.
Also the cushions will need a good 'plimping' up to get their shape back.
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Hi Joe
The estimate does not seem bad to us. With the travel etc and the amount of work that seems fine. Unfortunately people do seem to have the idea that professional cleaning etc. will be cheap ::)
Cheers
LTT
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thanks Judy, will probably phone you if that is ok over next couple of days,
cheers
steve
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steve
its a shame they have banned paul moss cause he would have been able to help and he would have given impartial advice not like others on here :) if you need his number let me know
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David I have seen Paul do his leather traning twice . the first thing he say's is get some proper training off either LTT or FC the 2nd is if the leather absorbs liquid don't touch it with a barge pole
John
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Paul's area, by his own admission is pigment leathers, not analine. Like John says he recommends going on a 'proper' course.
When I went up there the first thing he said was this is my way of doing leather take it or leave it. And I'm sure that's what he says every time he shows people.
I think all the leather companies have something to offer, with their own philosophies on how it 'should' be done.
FC is down to earth, straightforward and cheap, LTT is more involved and Rogers I'm sure is great but is beyond my comprehension currently.
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Wow, talk about a challenge ! It's so badly worn and mangled, it looks like suede in some areas, pull up, in others and aniline on the seats. What a mess, but what an opportunity ?
Realist pricing would be in the three to four hundred pounds region. Andy of Ltt is about to renovate a similar suite. Doubt it will be as bad as this one.
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Rob,
you are spot on with the observations and it does look like a real combination, but when you see the suite it really is worth saving, a real soft italian leather, and the guy is relaxed about the whole thing, so i think it will give me a real chance to see for real what results can be expected!
If it goes horribly wrong i guess i will own leather suite ;D as he was going to throw it anyway if nothing could be done.
To be honest it so badly faded, im sure anything i do will make it look half decent, im hoping anyhow
regards
steve
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Have fun Steve. I would love to have something like that to play with. Did the F C course in 2007 and the LTT two weeks ago.
Discovered at ltt, you can create masterpieces from wrecks, I always thought analine was to be avoided completely, now I know better.
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Have finally cleaned and re-dyed this suite today, took me 5 hours :o but i did take my time and really didn't know what to expect, plus the guy stood and watched me the whole time, he was nice enough but you really dont need it on your first aniline suite.
Anyhow i was fairly pleased with the result, it had 3 coats and 4 on the cushions, kept feeling i should keep going though but felt knackered so have said i will check back in the week to see if it needs anymore.
He was over the moon with it, charged £180 which i was happy with as he knew it was first re-dye and i was happy with the pratice to be honest.
It looked pretty good when i had finished, but wondered whether after a day or two it will lighten a lot, as he was really happy with it being dark?
two observations i gained from this session was, the cleaning hardly made any noticeable difference at all
And the when apply the dye you have to go pretty fast on the first coat otherwise it ends up being really patchy ! The suite at first was drinking it like water, 2nd and 3rd coat not too bad and easier to apply.
To be honest the pictures i took dont really do it justice and some of the light patches are the flash on the camera.
Thought i would post the results anyhow for any who are interested,
Also did'nt realy realize how long it would take, but would say its a difficult job once i get the hang of it, need a few more to do now tho
regards
steve
P.S. Thanks judy for the crash course it served me well - cheers
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Good job! Cant wait to get my hands on one.. Do you think it would be quicker next time or is 5 hrs about right?
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Steve
Was the 4 hours for the one 2-seater, or was there another?
Just wanting to know so to get the feel for time.
Looks good, many times better then before.
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Well done mate, that looks really good.
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sorry should of said the 5 hours was for both sofas, think i would've cracked if it was for one :P
to be honest i think it will be quicker next time as i was going a bit gingerly at first as the guy was watching, plus he was really chatty, then there was the coffee's and food :D
so it wasn't all bad ;)
The difficult part was knowing when to call it a day, i was tempted to keep going, but this really was a bad suite, some of it was nearly white in places from where it had faded so badly, think he had it in the sun alot, also some places were not so faded and it took a while to try and blend it so it looked uniform
a great learning experience all round
steve
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Although we stoppped for some dinner and cuppas and the suite we did was more faded it took 5 hours when me and Mike Halliday did one, but just looking at the picture I would have said the one we had was a better quility leather so infact we were slacking as the cheaper ones actually take longer because they keep absorbing.
Shaun
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i would reckon replacing the inserts would be well worth while if you can find a reasonably cheap supplier.
It would also make the restoration much easier, with firm rather than saggy cushions. Obviously it would have to be cost effective.
robert m
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Well done Steve, compared to the wreck that they were in I think you have done a good job. Your right about being quick with the dye and going patchy, I think it helps having the sponge or cloth with a lot of product simply so you dont run out and you can do a whole panel.
The next one will be easier :D
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Steve
Well done it looks like a good job done!! Now you have one under your belt you will feel much more confident about doing it again. 5 hours is quite a respectable time on your own and with added guidance from the customer!!!!!!
The blending is difficult when there are very faded areas but can sometimes be done more effectively with a tinted finish which will aslo give a more robust top surface and add a little more colour to the leather. You always need to stop as soon as the leather stops absorbing product as otherwise it can dry on the surface which could then come off on clothing (a finish will also prevent this from happening).
We would normally not recommend more than 3 coats of product but stop as soon as you see it 'swimming' on the surface.
The first coat is always the hardest to apply and is why we recommend a clean before you start. Although it will not have much cleaning effect it will introduce moisture which will stop the leather 'grabbing' the dye so quickly. We have found that even if the first coat seems to go on patchy it generally dries out fairly evenly and does not afect the overall colour at the end so do not 'panic' too much!!! but you do have to work fairly quickly and always keep a lot of product on your cloth ( we only use one small piece of cloth for the whole job keeping it well stocked with product) and there is a particular way to hold the cloth which makes the application a lot easier it but this is a bit tricky to explain on here!!!!!
Shaun
I think these were much more faded than the ones we did in the workshop but yes I think the ones in the workshop were of better quality however, the absorption of product is not always to do with the quality of the leather but can be many factors including type of finish and how dry they are. As with any leather job each one is different and will react in a slightly different way.
You can see why these jobs give great customer satisfaction and a certain wow factor. The great thing is that they are failsafe as there will be no peeling or finish problems.
Steve there will be no problem with immediate fading and they will stay dark for a long time. Adding a finish will help and the use of Ultra Protect will also slow down the ongoing fading process (which will always happen again with this style of leather) The trick is not to let is get so bad and if you sell your customer some of the dye he can also add some more if he feels that fading is happening. (especially now he has watched you do it so carefully!!!!!) which will probably be the case after about another year to 18 months.
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Am going back in couple of days to do the ultra protect, wasn't sure whether i could it straight away, but on the bottle its says leave for 24 hours, but will also give me opportunity to asses if anything needs touching up, when you're looking at a suite for 5 hours its hard to get the right perspective on it.
Hes already said he will have it done again in 12 months time so must of done something right.
cheers
steve
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Hi Steve
You can apply the Ultra Protect straight away as soon as the dye has dried. When you apply the Ultra Protect you will generally get some colour transfer to your cloth, this is entirely normal so don't worry. It does not mean that the dye is loose enough to come off on clothes so is still perfectly safe.
Cheers
Judy