Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: CC Windows on July 15, 2008, 11:41:17 am
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Just joined the forum so firstly may I say hello!
Need a bit of advice, I have just ordered the following items
Unger Opti-Loc 3 Part Pole extends to 8.3m
Unger Angled Adaptor
Fixi Clamp - Unger
Unger Visa Versa
Now on paper, I can now clean the ups without having to set foot on any ladders again, as I have everything on the end of a pole, from washer and squeege right down to the scrim and leather!
Anyone have any experience with this, I dont want my standard to drop and I Brought this kit to get to hard to reach windows, but if I can do every window, then it saves on ladder work and creates a safer enviroment for me and my customers!
Thanks in advance
Nige
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i think this is a good alternative to the water fed pole, although i think this method would be alot slower if you was to use it all the time to an alternative to ladders. and it would be alot harder to get as good results
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I have thought about just how longer it would take compared to ladders, if it was a little longer I wouldnt be bothered as I'm more bothered about safety and eliminating any risk for damage etc caused by ladders slipping or human error!
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i think you could pick up speed after time if you stuck with it. i think you would find it hard to get as good results tho.
welcome to the forum by the way. i think most people will advise you to buy a fwp setup. its the future.
good luck
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Water fed will happen, but for the time being its the traditional way for me! so this seems like the next best thing in safety terms and I think it would give a more professional look to me and my business!
I will be practising on my own property with the pole before I try on a customers!
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You will never get as good a trad job done with a pole than up close from a ladder.
Fine for difficult access windows but for all 1st floor windows?.........I don't think so.
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To be honest, the thought terrifies me.
Theres NO WAY you could get as good results, if you could, ladders would never have been used.
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To be honest, the thought terrifies me.
Theres NO WAY you could get as good results, if you could, ladders would never have been used.
Why does it terrify you? it's called finding new and alternative ways to make my own health safer, and my customers property safer and less chance of any damage too!
Regards the time thing, the time saved from getting the ladders off and on the roof of the van all day, moving from job to job, and then dodgying the usual things around the house with you're ladders would surely make up for the extra time spent on cleaning?
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To be honest, the thought terrifies me.
Theres NO WAY you could get as good results, if you could, ladders would never have been used.
Why does it terrify you? it's called finding new and alternative ways to make my own health safer, and my customers property safer and less chance of any damage too!
Regards the time thing, the time saved from getting the ladders off and on the roof of the van all day, moving from job to job, and then dodgying the usual things around the house with you're ladders would surely make up for the extra time spent on cleaning?
Because Ive been a trad window-cleaner for 10 years working off ladders, its a skill, some might say an art-form (well the old biddies that watch me do) but yo put that blade on the end of a 10' pole and theres gonna be no end of errors and mis-haps ALL magnified 10 fold because of the distance from you to the end of the pole. What you MIGHT have been able to get away with before.....well..... try..... see..... come back and report your findings.
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Give it a try mate. If it doesnt work out then you can use all the new gear on windows that are awkward. Ive got a trolley system that i am currently getting used to. Im not entirely convinced about wfp as opposed to trad. I still only use it on awkward houses as it seems alot of messing about compared to trad. The hose thing reeling and unreeling is a pain. Im tempted to get a backpack but cant justify investing anymore in wfp at moment. Im just going to give it more time with the trolley. I bought all the stuff like you have for the same reason but couldnt do leaded windows so i got the trolley. I think you can get good results using this method, let us know how you get on. Welcome to the forum and be prepared to get shot down. There are some very helpful postees on here and there are some not very helpful as well. Good luck ;)
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To be honest, the thought terrifies me.
Theres NO WAY you could get as good results, if you could, ladders would never have been used.
Why does it terrify you? it's called finding new and alternative ways to make my own health safer, and my customers property safer and less chance of any damage too!
Regards the time thing, the time saved from getting the ladders off and on the roof of the van all day, moving from job to job, and then dodgying the usual things around the house with you're ladders would surely make up for the extra time spent on cleaning?
Because Ive been a trad window-cleaner for 10 years working off ladders, its a skill, some might say an art-form (well the old biddies that watch me do) but yo put that blade on the end of a 10' pole and theres gonna be no end of errors and mis-haps ALL magnified 10 fold because of the distance from you to the end of the pole. What you MIGHT have been able to get away with before.....well..... try..... see..... come back and report your findings.
Hence why I said I would be looking into refining it on my own property, if it works then great, then if not then I dont put the ladders away just yet!
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Give it a try mate. If it doesnt work out then you can use all the new gear on windows that are awkward. Ive got a trolley system that i am currently getting used to. Im not entirely convinced about wfp as opposed to trad. I still only use it on awkward houses as it seems alot of messing about compared to trad. The hose thing reeling and unreeling is a pain. Im tempted to get a backpack but cant justify investing anymore in wfp at moment. Im just going to give it more time with the trolley. I bought all the stuff like you have for the same reason but couldnt do leaded windows so i got the trolley. I think you can get good results using this method, let us know how you get on. Welcome to the forum and be prepared to get shot down. There are some very helpful postees on here and there are some not very helpful as well. Good luck ;)
Cheers mate!
I brought the gear as I have had enough of putting my own health at risk reaching at windows I shouldnt really be doing, so that was the main reason, but then I thought how better it would be if you could do all first floor windows, I'm far from a new traditional window cleaner but have got to the point where I want to try new things to make my life easier and less dangerous and at the same time my customers properties more safe!
I know what you are saying mate, some people just dont like change ;)
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Ive got a well established round and have many customers for 10 years and i am sure that if i cleaned their windows with a less effective way than trad and ladders they would be happy if i explained issues about safety.
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Ive got a well established round and have many customers for 10 years and i am sure that if i cleaned their windows with a less effective way than trad and ladders they would be happy if i explained issues about safety.
I will keep you informed on how I go, own house first, then upstairs to inspect, any runs or residue water or dirt remaining, then try again lol
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I think that is the main problem.
Working from a distance you cannot see the little runs or lines from the squeegee unless you are indoors or close up.
I'm not trying to put down your idea as I would love it to work but I don't think it's really feasible.
Let us know how you get on. :)
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you will always need your ladders georgians builders cleans etc
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I think that is the main problem.
Working from a distance you cannot see the little runs or lines from the squeegee unless you are indoors or close up.
I'm not trying to put down your idea as I would love it to work but I don't think it's really feasible.
Let us know how you get on. :)
I'm not 100% that it will work, would love it to as it would make the job alot easier, thats why I ordered the flexi grip attachment because that will hold the scrim, so in theory a quick wipe over and there shouldn't be any runs!
Well heres hoping!
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you will always need your ladders georgians builders cleans etc
I agree, but if this did 90% of windows then I could cope with 10% ladder work!
Obviously any first cleans would have to be ladder too!
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you will always need your ladders georgians builders cleans etc
I agree, but if this did 90% of windows then I could cope with 10% ladder work!
Obviously any first cleans would have to be ladder too!
good luck with it hope it works out for you
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You will never get as good a trad job done with a pole than up close from a ladder.
Fine for difficult access windows but for all 1st floor windows?.........I don't think so.
2nd that
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you will always need your ladders georgians builders cleans etc
I agree, but if this did 90% of windows then I could cope with 10% ladder work!
Obviously any first cleans would have to be ladder too!
good luck with it hope it works out for you
I will let you know once the stuff arrives ;D
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Your standard will definately drop. A lot!
You may be able to get away with a squeegee on a pole, but you'll never detail it properly and there will be smudges on every window.
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Hi CC,
Welcome to the forum
I do a lot of commercial internal high pole work. Most window cleaners I know think I am pretty good with a pole and squeegee.
I have tried doing residential with a pole but there are a few main problems you will face.
1. runs. residential windows are small and often a small opener is placed above another pane of glass in the frame. You would have to clean then detail to stop the runs before doing the glass below.
2. Detailing - made easier by use of the unger fixi clamp but at a distance quite difficult.
3. Time - traditional pole work is time consuming. Ok its safer than ladders but accuracy / detailing is difficult as your not up close and personal.
4. Angles. wfp lads will tell you that depending on the layout of the garden etc you end up standing all over the place to reach the window, sometimes right under (alley way beside house) it or a long way back from it (over a flower bed) etc. With wfp the brush angle is less important as long as you can scrub and rinse the glass. With a squeegee the angle on the glass is very important if a good result is required.
5. Technique. There are many ways to use a pole to clean a window, its a never ending art form. I have over seven different squeegees from ledgers, to 0 degrees to back flips, to wagtails all which have a very specific job. You can even clean a window with a damp microfibre applicator followed by a microfibre in a fixi clamp but it is very time consuming. Learning which technique suits which window and angle takes years to master. I have been cleaning windows since I was 15 and I am now 40. I love pole work but its still difficult with out concentration.
In summary making money in window cleaning is all about having a competitive price and doing an excellent job every time. In this day and age a traditional pole has its place, and that is where all other methods are deemed unsuitable. Where a ladder would be difficult or unsafe to use, or where it is simply quicker to pole (shop fronts etc). Using a pole for residential work in my experience would not be efficient and you would struggle to earn a good living. You also have to remember that on a freezing cold day in the middle of winter in thick clothing and gloves it would be more difficult again.
In you position I would get a ladder, and learn to use it correctly. Save the money and buy wfp.
If you really dont want to use a ladder get wfp from day one.
Remember, to be a professional window cleaner you need to master a range of skills. I use ladders, poles, and wfp regularly, all have their place and all are necessary tools.
Wfp is not better than traditional ladder work, especially as you cant use wfp indoors on the whole, but it is faster and safer to use for external domestic work. A traditional pole is safer than a ladder but you will struggle to make a living. A ladder when used safely is an excellent tool of the trade.
I hope that waffle helps
Whatever you decide to do - good luck
Kev ;)
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Hi CC,
Welcome to the forum
I do a lot of commercial internal high pole work. Most window cleaners I know think I am pretty good with a pole and squeegee.
I have tried doing residential with a pole but there are a few main problems you will face.
1. runs. residential windows are small and often a small opener is placed above another pane of glass in the frame. You would have to clean then detail to stop the runs before doing the glass below.
2. Detailing - made easier by use of the unger fixi clamp but at a distance quite difficult.
3. Time - traditional pole work is time consuming. Ok its safer than ladders but accuracy / detailing is difficult as your not up close and personal.
4. Angles. wfp lads will tell you that depending on the layout of the garden etc you end up standing all over the place to reach the window, sometimes right under (alley way beside house) it or a long way back from it (over a flower bed) etc. With wfp the brush angle is less important as long as you can scrub and rinse the glass. With a squeegee the angle on the glass is very important if a good result is required.
5. Technique. There are many ways to use a pole to clean a window, its a never ending art form. I have over seven different squeegees from ledgers, to 0 degrees to back flips, to wagtails all which have a very specific job. You can even clean a window with a damp microfibre applicator followed by a microfibre in a fixi clamp but it is very time consuming. Learning which technique suits which window and angle takes years to master. I have been cleaning windows since I was 15 and I am now 40. I love pole work but its still difficult with out concentration.
In summary making money in window cleaning is all about having a competitive price and doing an excellent job every time. In this day and age a traditional pole has its place, and that is where all other methods are deemed unsuitable. Where a ladder would be difficult or unsafe to use, or where it is simply quicker to pole (shop fronts etc). Using a pole for residential work in my experience would not be efficient and you would struggle to earn a good living. You also have to remember that on a freezing cold day in the middle of winter in thick clothing and gloves it would be more difficult again.
In you position I would get a ladder, and learn to use it correctly. Save the money and buy wfp.
If you really dont want to use a ladder get wfp from day one.
Remember, to be a professional window cleaner you need to master a range of skills. I use ladders, poles, and wfp regularly, all have their place and all are necessary tools.
Wfp is not better than traditional ladder work, especially as you cant use wfp indoors on the whole, but it is safer to use for external domestic work. A pole is safer than a ladder but you will struggle to make a living.
I hope that waffle helps
Kev ;)
Thanks for the reply Kev!
I do all windows currently with ladders the trad way! ordered these bits and bobs to make life easier on them windows that you take you're life into you're own hands to do (My wife goes mad haha)
If it only cuts down on the amount of ladder work then I will be happy, 100% ladderless would be nice, but I know that will never happen!
Once again thanks for the detailed post, and every point you made I can relate to!
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Ive got a trolley system that i am currently getting used to. Im not entirely convinced about wfp as opposed to trad. I still only use it on awkward houses as it seems alot of messing about compared to trad....
Im tempted to get a backpack but cant justify investing anymore in wfp at moment. Im just going to give it more time with the trolley.
A backpack is the answer to ditching ladders, when you're on a budget; mostly. I still do first cleans and windows above flat roofs using ladders, but I rarely climb them more than three-times-per-day.
Ian_Giles recently bought himself a backpack (to supplement his van-mount) and he's over-the-moon with it. He reckons he can do two 'semi's' with one fill (which I find surprising, since I can't; and I've been using a backpack for nearly four years).
Budget or not, a backpack is a good bit of of kit; better than a trolley.
You should have asked here first; I'd have saved you some dosh!
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Your Welcome ;)
If your using your pole just to keep you safe on those difficult windows you will soon become a pole hero with all your body parts intact!
Just by recognizing that there is a health and safety issue and choosing to use a pole will save your life. I truly believe that wfp has been the biggest advance regarding safety in the last 10 years but I remember doing exactly the same as your doing for many years.
When you get a large internal and external commercial job you will be pleased that you made the effort to learn the traditional skills even when you eventually go wfp.
Ps I will never get rid of my ladders as they still make me lots of money and are a very valuable tool. ;D
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Your Welcome ;)
If your using your pole just to keep you safe on those difficult windows you will soon become a pole hero with all your body parts intact!
Just by recognizing that there is a health and safety issue and choosing to use a pole will save your life. I truly believe that wfp has been the biggest advance regarding safety in the last 10 years but I remember doing exactly the same as your doing for many years.
When you get a large internal and external commercial job you will be pleased that you made the effort to learn the traditional skills even when you eventually go wfp.
Ps I will never get rid of my ladders as they still make me lots of money and are a very valuable tool. ;D
Kev
Once again thanks, everything you have posted are my main reasons for investing in a pole set up!
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yes you can ditch the ladders now,i ve read with interest some of the advice given so here s some more.we got rid of ladders at least 6 yrs ago bearing in mind i ve been cleaning over 23yrs and never lost a customer.the way we did it was be honest and tell each client why we won t use ladders any more and that no the upstairs might not be perfect but we always make a class job downstairs. now 99 out of a hundred said,thats fine we don t want any accidents just for the sake of cleaning windows that we never look through.we also use wfp for last 5 yrs so ladders never will be a problem thank god.p s sorry did lose 1 she said windows fine but i like to see you earn your money,thick cow.cheers mick
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Your Welcome ;)
If your using your pole just to keep you safe on those difficult windows you will soon become a pole hero with all your body parts intact!
Just by recognizing that there is a health and safety issue and choosing to use a pole will save your life. I truly believe that wfp has been the biggest advance regarding safety in the last 10 years but I remember doing exactly the same as your doing for many years.
When you get a large internal and external commercial job you will be pleased that you made the effort to learn the traditional skills even when you eventually go wfp.
Ps I will never get rid of my ladders as they still make me lots of money and are a very valuable tool. ;D
Kev
Once again thanks, everything you have posted are my main reasons for investing in a pole set up!
Hi CC welcome to the forum.
A few years ago I used to use an extension pole (6m) to do dorma bungalows, in my experience and others you are best to avoid this method and go straight down the wfp route, it is very time consuming and ineffective, detailing is a nightmare and you can't clean the sills as well.
I have lost a couple of customers that have decided to do there own windows with a pole and squegee, and after a short while they wanted me back because they looked terrible, if this method worked it would have taken off!!
Commercially its good on large panes of glass but for residential a time waster due to openers etc etc.
Best to stick to the ladder or wfp.
if it works for you let us know!
Regards Matt
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yes you can ditch the ladders now,i ve read with interest some of the advice given so here s some more.we got rid of ladders at least 6 yrs ago bearing in mind i ve been cleaning over 23yrs and never lost a customer.the way we did it was be honest and tell each client why we won t use ladders any more and that no the upstairs might not be perfect but we always make a class job downstairs. now 99 out of a hundred said,thats fine we don t want any accidents just for the sake of cleaning windows that we never look through.we also use wfp for last 5 yrs so ladders never will be a problem thank god.p s sorry did lose 1 she said windows fine but i like to see you earn your money,thick cow.cheers mick
Thats good to know, tbh I have mentioned it to my customers while out that I am thinking about using a pole on some and possibly all 1st floor windows, not one has complained even though I have said that they wouldnt be perfect!
But for my own peace of mind I want ALL my windows to be as near as perfect as possible, so will do some trial runs on my own and family properties and see how I get on