Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: michael papworth on July 12, 2008, 01:49:16 pm
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I've seen lots of threads on this topic. I have brushes with both types and I have a definite preference for one over the other - particularly on hydrophobic glass.
But for those who don't have experience of both, this video might help.
www.wally-the-window-washer.co.uk/pencilsvsfans_0001.wmv
Actually, I think steve m was right. I need to get out more ;D
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good bid bud, those fans do look good at rinsing to be fair
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First time I've seen fan ones.
Looks much better. :o
Must get some.
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whats the "against" for the fan jets cause all i can see is good there
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whats the "against" for the fan jets cause all i can see is good there
Wet feet!
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whats the "against" for the fan jets cause all i can see is good there
Maybe it's finer spray, and you have to be careful because there's less weight of water pulling the dirt down?
Just a guess... :-\
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I've seen lots of threads on this topic. I have brushes with both types and I have a definite preference for one over the other - particularly on hydrophobic glass.
But for those who don't have experience of both, this video might help.
www.wally-the-window-washer.co.uk/pencilsvsfans_0001.wmv
Actually, I think steve m was right. I need to get out more ;D
Nice one wally ;)
Can I pinch your video for the Training Academy? and I'll put your name as the supplier.
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I've seen lots of threads on this topic. I have brushes with both types and I have a definite preference for one over the other - particularly on hydrophobic glass.
But for those who don't have experience of both, this video might help.
www.wally-the-window-washer.co.uk/pencilsvsfans_0001.wmv
Actually, I think steve m was right. I need to get out more ;D
Nice one wally ;)
Can I pinch your video for the Training Academy? and I'll put your name as the supplier.
You're most welcome.
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Thank you Wally, all done. ;)
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There is no down side to fan sprays.
Wally on the brushes that you have the fans on where are the fans situated. Our brushes are adapted and they sit just off the top edge of the brush, they look like they are coming from between the bristles.
Rob ;D
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Its a good video. I think fans are better for rinsing in general but when you have a window with vents on the frame, or even worse with vents just on the top of the window they can be a nightmare with over spray.
Simon.
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If you incorporate cleaning the vent on the initial cleans then this will not be an ongoing problem.
Rob ;D
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If you incorporate cleaning the vent on the initial cleans then this will not be an ongoing problem.
Rob ;D
Muck still gets in there.
Best to totally avoid the things.
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I got a set of fan jets from WCW but they seem massive, after seeing vid i might give them a go on my vikan
Chris
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Squeaky
That just is not the case - We always incorporated the vents in the initial clean and then re cleaned - 2 cleans on the property at one visit - the vents seldom caused problems.
If you are tring to work round dirty vents on every visit then that is certainly going to cause more problems in the long run.
You can flush vents on the first clean without ingress of water into the house and there will be less dirt/no dirt on the next clean.
If you aren't cleaning the vents at all then I can see why my business did so well - we cleaned the whole unit and never left the awkward bits. Problem areas ought to be a reason for making your business stand out from the competition and not an excuse to offer half a clean!!!!
Rob ;D
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Squeaky
That just is not the case - We always incorporated the vents in the initial clean and then re cleaned - 2 cleans on the property at one visit - the vents seldom caused problems.
If you are tring to work round dirty vents on every visit then that is certainly going to cause more problems in the long run.
You can flush vents on the first clean without ingress of water into the house and there will be less dirt/no dirt on the next clean.
If you aren't cleaning the vents at all then I can see why my business did so well - we cleaned the whole unit and never left the awkward bits. Problem areas ought to be a reason for making your business stand out from the competition and not an excuse to offer half a clean!!!!
Rob ;D
But at least i can 99% be sure of no spots or runs.
If you're doing vents you can't rely on the result.
So it may be half a job... ;)
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I stay away from vents and if i did do them i would tell the customer if you want these done you might get the odd mark or run.
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The success of my residential work and the value I sold it for speaks volumes for the quality of the service offered.
The amount of recommended cleans we picked up every week would stagger some. I have never struggled to gain weekly new customers, week in , week out.
I was always surprised by the ongoing growth but I just fell out of love with the residential sector.
I have seen your posts on the different problems you have had with your business development and lack of movement and they were never circumstances I could relate to. I would not employ someone to clean my windows if they did not do the whole unit!!!
I could be sure that 99% of the time there were never problems with my cleaning. If you have never attempted to clean vents ( then you must have some grubby tops) then you really cannot have any experience on cleaning them, as an ongoing concern, so anything you say on the post will only be supposition and would not be able to be backed up by experience.
Rob ;D
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I've tried both pencil and fan jets several times to make the comparisons. There are pros & cons with both.
Personally, I prefer pencil jets for 2 main reasons:
1. They are more accurate.
2. They allow more water through the jets which I prefer as I use a high waterflow and make full use of the weight of the water for rinsing which you won't get with fan jets.
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Wayne so you are after a waterfall effect ?
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Wayne so you are after a waterfall effect ?
Yes, I prefer to see a clearly visible sheeting of water cascading down the glass so I know the job is left 100% clean with no comeback.
With the jets, rinsing too quickly you can cover all the glass but if you are too quick, you're left wondering if you used enough water and more chance of glass not being rinsed thoroughly enoughly because of a lack of water to rinse properly.
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When I'm rinsing.... I go for Gardiner's method of cascading the water down the glass (but with brush on instead), combined with Groundhog's speed :)
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The video was made on window glass which is strongly hydrophobic. I chose those windows intentionally.
If you watch the video carefully, you'll see that the water running down the glass behaves in exactly the same way for both sets of jets. You only get the curtain effect on hydrophilic glass. On hydrophobic glass, the water always seems to run down in channels.
On hydrophilic glass, pencils and fans both produce the curtain effect, so there is no real difference.
The difference, to my way of thinking is on hydrophobic glass. With pencils, you have to watch very carefully, it takes a lot more effort and is slower. With fans, you can be absolutley 100% sure that the glass has been rinsed.
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The video was made on window glass which is strongly hydrophobic. I chose those windows intentionally.
If you watch the video carefully, you'll see that the water running down the glass behaves in exactly the same way for both sets of jets. You only get the curtain effect on hydrophilic glass? On hydrophobic glass, the water always seems to run down in channels.
On hydrophilic glass, pencils and fans both produce the curtain effect, so there is no real difference.
The difference, to my way of thinking is on hydrophobic glass. With pencils, you have to watch very carefully, it takes a lot more effort and is slower. With fans, you can be absolutley 100% sure that the glass has been rinsed.
Wally....
Good video. :)
Any chance you could do the same with hydroglobic glass. :) 99% of my work is hydroglobic. The only places I find hydrophobic is on some patio doors. With fan jets you can cover the glass quickly which I agree on but what I am getting at is that it's hard to tell if the weight of the water is actually pulling the dirt/ grit down the glass with it as less water is used.
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Yes, OK.
I've got one window which is REALLY hydrophillic and shows colours as the water slowly creeps down the glass and evaporates from the upper edge. It's the same effect that you sometimes get when you see colours in a thin film of oil on water.
(You may have noticed the colours on oil stains on driveways just after a heavy rain. This is one of the problems of being a scientist: you can't see anything of this sort without becoming transfixed by it.)
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I changed from a Vikan oval with pencils and always rinsing off, to a Salmon 11" with fans 5 weeks ago. I now normally rinse on with a high flow and haven't had any problems or complaints. (Or wet feet).
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I changed from a Vikan oval with pencils and always rinsing off, to a Salmon 11" with fans 5 weeks ago. I now normally rinse on with a high flow and haven't had any problems or complaints. (Or wet feet).
Exactly the same scenario here, love fan jets now, so much better for rinsing, particularly on hydrophobic
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I changed from a Vikan oval with pencils and always rinsing off, to a Salmon 11" with fans 5 weeks ago. I now normally rinse on with a high flow and haven't had any problems or complaints. (Or wet feet).
Salmon is a better brush than the Vikan :) OOps I've done it now with Vikan users :)
Some people love fans, others pencils. Very interested to read which works best for others and why they're convinced it's better than the other jets. :)
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... love fan jets now, so much better for rinsing, particularly on hydrophobic
I'm glad that you wrote that, Matt. It was exactly the thing I was investigating when I made the video.
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why they're convinced it's better than the other jets. :)
Because fans sheet even on hydrophobic generally, whereas pencils certainly dont.
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Wally...
Just checked out your website, very good, impressive :)
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i,d love to see the result with 4 pencils which is what i use , you get an even coverage on the glass and a nice heavy flow regards alan
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i,d love to see the result with 4 pencils which is what i use , you get an even coverage on the glass and a nice heavy flow regards alan
Easy enough. Just get someone on the inside to make a quick video of you on the outside cleaning a window. Even a mobile phone video should be good enough to show * what's really going on.
* "what's really going on" ... it's easy to think you know what's happening, but you might be right and you might be wrong. Taking a video will show you what is REALLY hapening.
I have to say that I was surprised when I saw the video and noticed the water running down the glass. I'd expected it to be different for the two sets of jets, but it wasn't.