Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Kevin R on July 11, 2008, 05:42:30 pm
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Glyn H,
Thank you very much for the custom parts you just built for my power pole - Talk about rapid service!!!!!
The deep gutters on my latest 45 ft contract will now be no problem to vac and flush thanks to you!!!! The parts will pay for themselves in no time. The Omnivac system has paid for its self time and time again and the new parts will definitely increase the efficiency of my service!!
Will you be adding the custom parts to your catalogue?
Thanks once again for your most excellent service ;)
Regards
Kevin Red
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Along with the likes of Alex Gardiner Glyn is one of the good guys in the supply business. I know personally how dedicated he is to his customers.
Andrew
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Can I ask a system question of the suppliers Glyn Andrew Alex? and anyone else who has an answer.
It's prompted really by seeing Tennents superb thermopure set up. My question is why do system suppliers include water production as an integral part of the set up on van mounts?
A lot of us prefer to produce water at home, and using tenent as an example if he had six theromopure vans why should he need six seperate means of water production?
On my van I don't even have a DI. I see vans as a means to carry water, and the production of pure water as a seperate matter.
If someone could explain this?
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Hi Discount (sorry to continue hi-jacking the thread)
I think fundamentally it's because it's an easier product to sell. You can have one product with size variations thereof, whereas if you split them up you are basically supplying a parts package which is harder to sell.
I personally use a basic vehicle set up - just a tank, pump and hose reels in the vehicle. Processing is done back at base into an IBC (which Glyn sold me 7 years ago!). The advantage of this set up is it minimizes the space required in the vehicle and allows my water processing to feed up to 3 separate vehicles.
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It's all a question of different needs and preferences.
With the on-board systems you simply plug a feed fron the tap and a feed to waste in and forget it until the next morning and set off to work with a full tank. A lot do prefer this. You can also "top up" if needed during the working day. Many companies work away from home/base for a day or a few at a time so do need to be able to fill up overnight. Many also employ remote workers and having the kit on board means not having to provide static set ups at workers homes. Sometimes the Wives dont want the kit in the garage/shed/garden either. :o
Also a lot of people just want to get it all fitted and drive away with nothing else to set up so they can get to work with no hassle setting up static systems. Also a supplier can be assured that everything is working properly before the customer leaves and can make sure the customer understands how it all works by showing them first hand.. and so on.
My absolutely honest opinion through experience shows that the customers with full on board systems encounter far less problems than those that do DIY static water production systems.
It's the water production part of WFP that seems to be such a mystery for customers and no matter how much written instruction..telephone help and tearing hair out many still manage to mess it up regularly with DIY static set ups. E.G. Di BEFORE ro... RO waste into DI.. are just 2 of the common teething probs and some peaople just never seem to get it.
Please believe me it's in no way a question of making more money or forcing someone into a less workable solution. Its just the way things are.
Andrew
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Thanks Kev :-[
My question is why do system suppliers include water production as an integral part of the set up on van mounts?
Actually we dont build the water production equipment as an integral part of a van mount.
The vast majority of our customers initially have us build a static system based on their predicted growth and add more van mounts as and when they need them. Some may start with a 600 or 1000 litre static tank and simply add more of the same- some customers start out with a 4000 litre tank and have us initually build one or two van mounts with plans to add more within a few months. Others obviously choose a 600 or 1000 litre static and keep their business smaller because they like it that way.
We use 2 x 2600 litre tanks ourselves.
We have been operating this way for probably the last eight or nine years.
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^^^^^ Oh heck!!!
Just to make it clear I have supplied probably a ratio of 10 to 1 in favour of static systems. Each have their place.
Andrew
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I have to say that Glyn and Andrew are known for selling the right product for the customer. Even the rather well known retailer of in-vehicle package systems also does a static version these days.
As Andrew has pointed out though, for a lot of customers the in-vehicle set-up can be simpler to operate and less daunting to start with.
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A lot can depend on individual circumstances too. I started with a van mounted RO but switched to a static RO when a cheap premises became available (cheap as in doing some free W/Cing to pay for it.). As I live in a flat, it wasn't practical to persevere with a van mounted RO due to problems supplying it (not to mention the waste). I do have a DI unit in the van in case I ever need a bit of extra water to get finished. Additionally, the van is my only vehicle so a van mounted RO was tying it up when I needed it for private use.
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I do have a DI unit in the van in case I ever need a bit of extra water to get finished.
Snap. I use it about once a month to top up about 50-100 litres on one particular contract.
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Talk about thread Hijack..... LOL ;D
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Sorry Kevin but i was interested in the answers,it seemed like a good chance to ask, and they all explained it well from different perspectives.
A lot of us might like gutter cleaning, but speaking for myself i'm clueless about getting the work. Anyway if I do ever go into it I know that Omnipole is where to get the pro kit from.
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Glyn H,
Thank you very much for the custom parts you just built for my power pole - Talk about rapid service!!!!!
The deep gutters on my latest 45 ft contract will now be no problem to vac and flush thanks to you!!!! The parts will pay for themselves in no time. The Omnivac system has paid for its self time and time again and the new parts will definitely increase the efficiency of my service!!
Will you be adding the custom parts to your catalogue?
Thanks once again for your most excellent service ;)
Regards
Kevin Red
Money well spent IMO, & from someone who knows what they're on about by the sounds of it. Proper kit, proper service, what else do you need? :D
Tony
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Alex, no offense but its nothing at all to do with it being "an easier product to sell" LOL you make it sound like thats all ionics are bothered about lol (which is what I think you were trying to do, thereby having a sly dig at ionics. My advice: when you dont know what your talking about its best not to try to sound clever)
I looked at all of the options when it came to getting my setup, and water filters on the system in the van was the best solution for me.
However, ionics did advise me that if I were planning to get more vans on the road, it would be more economical to have a static set up with just what they were calling a "delivery system" in the van. IE, Only the water heater, and a single DI filter just to polish, no other purification.
The idea being that you have your static system at your premises which is constantly making pure water and stored in big tanks. Then, when you drive your vans in you use a transfer pump to get some of the ready made pure water into the tank in your van. Takes a couple a minutes to transfer.
So your van only has the tank, the heater and maybe just one or two DI filters just to make sure the water is always pure to the pole.
As I wasnt planning on getting any pmore vans on the road/employees just yet, this was not right for me, and it had nothing at all to do with being "an easier product to sell". LOL what a ridiculous thing to say.
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Alex, no offense but its nothing at all to do with it being "an easier product to sell" LOL you make it sound like thats all ionics are bothered about lol (which is what I think you were trying to do, thereby having a sly dig at ionics. My advice: when you dont know what your talking about its best not to try to sound clever)
I looked at all of the options when it came to getting my setup, and water filters on the system in the van was the best solution for me.
However, ionics did advise me that if I were planning to get more vans on the road, it would be more economical to have a static set up with just what they were calling a "delivery system" in the van. IE, Only the water heater, and a single DI filter just to polish, no other purification.
The idea being that you have your static system at your premises which is constantly making pure water and stored in big tanks. Then, when you drive your vans in you use a transfer pump to get some of the ready made pure water into the tank in your van. Takes a couple a minutes to transfer.
So your van only has the tank, the heater and maybe just one or two DI filters just to make sure the water is always pure to the pole.
As I wasnt planning on getting any pmore vans on the road/employees just yet, this was not right for me, and it had nothing at all to do with being "an easier product to sell". LOL what a ridiculous thing to say.
When I posted about being easier to sell I was talking from my own perspective as to where to go next when we start selling fitted systems. As a retailer it is much easier to sell a complete package. When referring to the company you've mentioned, they are famous for (and have been copied greatly) selling in vehicle package systems. I was just pointing out that even though they have a great retail model, they also cater for static systems.
Sorry to disappoint but this was not a 'sly dig', just showing a point. For people who want a plug and play system that does it all and is crash tested, it is very hard to beat Ionics (if not currently impossible). Also, if you look at their prices they are not as expensive as they first appear.
I realize that you are used to people knocking Ionics but this is not one of those occasions.
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Sorry to hijack this thread but Alex can you please send me another white double threaded bit for the other side of the vessel and 2 more black and orange fittings please + 2 more male fittings for the pump,cheers mate.Oh and Alex don`t keep going on about Ionics you`ve only been in this game a few months lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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:D
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::)
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I think that system Tennant has just got really looks the biz but everyone i know that has dealt with them says there after sales is awful.
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from my own perspective as to where to go next when we start selling fitted systems.
Alex I find that comment very interesting.
I will be especially interested to see how you handle the delicate subject of safety, from what I understand you are the type of person who places a high value on life and the safety of others. What I mean is, to give an example, if you were to sell a car to someone that you knew had faulty brakes and they died as a result then the blood would be on your hands. Some may disagree with that assumption, but not me and I suspect not you either.
In my mind the same situation is true of systems, and this very seriously influenced my decision to go with a crash-tested system. I was recently very suprised to hear that the likes of tim jardine of essentially pure is supposedly someone like yourself and others on here who hold life valuable, yet are happily installing systems which are potentially lethal (I have personally seen one, and it is plainly highly unsafe).
Personally I think unless you actually crash-test your stuff you just cannot claim to be safe and I cannot help but think it is the utmost hypocrisy for anyone who claims to hold life valuable to be supplying untested stuff, and at the same time rubbishing ionics for doing the testing and safeguarding peoples lives.
I dont expect everyone to agree with me on this point, and thats ok, but I do think there are plenty on here who will understand exactly what I am talking about.
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Firstly it`s Tony Jardine and they have fitted mine and i can honestly say that it is fitted in the same place that ionic would fit it and the bolts used are of the same quality the same can be said of there tank frames,the bolts ionic use are not magic ones though after speaking to Ruben you`d think they were,even in the new van that you have if you drive it like an idiot and have an accident you never will know the outcome until it happens.
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Sorry Tony Jardine, yes thats the fella
NWH, mate have you seen the crash test videos? it is not the bolts that fail it is the mounting brackets, the van floor and the steel frame itself.
I know it aint magic, but it their frames ARE crash tested and I had a long talk with Jason at ionics about it and how their frames did fail first but they had to rework them.
Its also not about where you fit the system though sure this is important for weight etc, but its the way its attached to the van, the clamps that hold it in place and the tank frame. from what I understand it is a very complicated science and thats why the only way to know is to do a test. Doesnt matter how sturdy it may look.
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from my own perspective as to where to go next when we start selling fitted systems.
Alex I find that comment very interesting.
I will be especially interested to see how you handle the delicate subject of safety, from what I understand you are the type of person who places a high value on life and the safety of others. What I mean is, to give an example, if you were to sell a car to someone that you knew had faulty brakes and they died as a result then the blood would be on your hands. Some may disagree with that assumption, but not me and I suspect not you either.
In my mind the same situation is true of systems, and this very seriously influenced my decision to go with a crash-tested system. I was recently very suprised to hear that the likes of tim jardine of essentially pure is supposedly someone like yourself and others on here who hold life valuable, yet are happily installing systems which are potentially lethal (I have personally seen one, and it is plainly highly unsafe).
Personally I think unless you actually crash-test your stuff you just cannot claim to be safe and I cannot help but think it is the utmost hypocrisy for anyone who claims to hold life valuable to be supplying untested stuff, and at the same time rubbishing ionics for doing the testing and safeguarding peoples lives.
I dont expect everyone to agree with me on this point, and thats ok, but I do think there are plenty on here who will understand exactly what I am talking about.
I fully understand what you are saying in your post.
I have to say a few things ionics crash test there system as far as I am aware at 30mph (full and what weight I do not know do you?)
crash test is Ionics selling tool, and I spoke to Criag from ionics the owner thats taken a back seat and you would be shocked what he said to me, I am not posting it on here. it is nothing to do with safety of there systems I thought I better add that
as it could viewed in a bad light, nothing said was bad in anyway more very good that many miss and are still missing
Crash at 30 mph and 50 is miles apart nmow if ionic did a test at 70mph with a full tank sat 800l it would stand up what they say IMO, to me it is like the self cleaning glass (does it work, well I have loads of customers asking me to clean them so you deside on that).
Am I knocking ionics no I am not there sytems are smart expensive but smart am I jealous of the system, not at all if I really wanted one and thought I would make more money from one It would be on order monday morning.
I have seen mant dodgy systems and quite a few on a site (no names, but say to the owner of site he needed a disclaimer to cover hes backside hopefully I listened.
Safety is key in my life come to close to dying to many times.
so to end untested stuff maybe, tested at 40,50,60 70 mph no compaines are that I know of and with a full load none as I know at 1mph or more.
Ian
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Tank safety
If I could work out how to post photographs I would be able to post photos of two terrable crashes one a head on collision on a dual carrageway where one vehicle comming in the opposite direction hit an oil patch and hit a vehicle we had supplied with an 800 litre tank fitted it was early in the morning and the van had three ocupants and a full tank of water. The head on collision wrote off both vehicles involved thankfully only minor injuries occured. The insurers inspectors were amazed that the tank did not move.
The second major accident occured in London at 5.30 in the morning when the driver of a car had fallen asleep and plowed into the side of a van we had built with a 650 litre tank of water, the rear axle of the van was smashed completly off of the vehicle, The van driver wasnt injured, unfortunatly the car catapulted off the van and demolished a shop front ending up inside the shop, the driver recieved only minor injuries due to his sleepiness. Once again the underwritter noted in his report the stability of the tank and its non movement.
Not a formal crash test I know but reassuring for us.
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Sorry Tony Jardine, yes thats the fella
NWH, mate have you seen the crash test videos? it is not the bolts that fail it is the mounting brackets, the van floor and the steel frame itself.
I know it aint magic, but it their frames ARE crash tested and I had a long talk with Jason at ionics about it and how their frames did fail first but they had to rework them.
Its also not about where you fit the system though sure this is important for weight etc, but its the way its attached to the van, the clamps that hold it in place and the tank frame. from what I understand it is a very complicated science and thats why the only way to know is to do a test. Doesnt matter how sturdy it may look.
If you are happy that`s all that counts Tennant,you have a Rolls Royce product that by the sounds of it suits all your needs.Will it get you more work absolutley not will it make you more keen to get to work i would say it will,lets not get away from the basics here getting water up a pole.A few months ago i nearly got exactly the same setup as you but when thinking about it i couldn`t see how it was going to earn me more money.
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My system was fitted by Varitech. The systems they sell are enclosed in a stainless steel frame.
They send your van to a professional coach builder to be fitted. My system has 12 big stainless steel bolts all which pass though the chassis.
I am no doubt that in an accident my system etc will hold up as good as the ionics one.
Like NWH said ionics are not selling Magic bolts, but lets face it they are excellent sales people. who know the business they are in.
I have seen some terribly badly fitted systems in my time. I think its good that Ionics have set a standard which hopefully all manufactures / suppliers will eventually follow.
Lets face it the main suppliers are switched on a tend to fit systems properly its some of the DIY systems I worry about.
TennentClean its a lovely looking system, I hope it does you proud - good luck ;)
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Tank safety
If I could work out how to post photographs I would be able to post photos of two terrable crashes one a head on collision on a dual carrageway where one vehicle comming in the opposite direction hit an oil patch and hit a vehicle we had supplied with an 800 litre tank fitted it was early in the morning and the van had three ocupants and a full tank of water. The head on collision wrote off both vehicles involved thankfully only minor injuries occured. The insurers inspectors were amazed that the tank did not move.
The second major accident occured in London at 5.30 in the morning when the driver of a car had fallen asleep and plowed into the side of a van we had built with a 650 litre tank of water, the rear axle of the van was smashed completly off of the vehicle, The van driver wasnt injured, unfortunatly the car catapulted off the van and demolished a shop front ending up inside the shop, the driver recieved only minor injuries due to his sleepiness. Once again the underwritter noted in his report the stability of the tank and its non movement.
Not a formal crash test I know but reassuring for us.
Glyn,
where you type in a reply, click additional option a box will appear, like on browse find pc on pc and click it, clkick ok/attach
you can do this twice.
Ian
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Why do ionics plug the saftey aspect of things because it sells,Tennant and the views he`s expressing are proof that it sells.The market is getting saturated with suppliers and joe bloggs fitting them in there sheds and they know this and are using it to there advantage you only have to flick through the last magazine to see this,they did the same with poles and now there doing it with there systems.In some ways the way the information is put across it`s like unless you buy from us it won`t be safe,when there pole sales level out there will be another big plug for the poles that they supply and how that if you use 1 of there`s you won`t get neck ache or back ache,a business that size has to have good marketing to survive and they have it,shame they don`t ring you back when things go wrong or so i`ve heard.
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Thanks Ian
This one was the side on hit, as you can see the wheel has been burst and the rim damaged. The rear axle is actually broken from its fixings and latter fell off when attempt was made to move it.
The photo with the door open was taken on extreme wide angle lens to get whole vehicle in which is why its distorted.
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Well it looks like your system has passed a real life crash test ;D
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NWH I hear what you are saying and of course there is an advantage there to be had, but I dont think you can just completely discard the whole safety issue because it helps ionics market a product.
Look at how car companies like volvo go on about their safety. Yes they do it for marketing reasons but it doesnt make the things they say wrong, what they are saying is still true. If they made a car that got good marks for safety of course they're gonna shout about it, but does that mean that you can ignore the safety points because you suspect they are selling cars on the basis of it? Absolutely not.
So yes sure they use it for marketing, and if I was them so would I, but so what? It doesnt mean they're lying, it doesnt mean that theres no danger with untested systems, they already proved that there is.
All I am saying is that in my opinion it is not possible to claim that somethings safe unless you are able to prove it, and I think that for WFP systems the only way to be sure is to do the testing. And if you cant be sure that what your selling is safe (by testing it) then IMO it is hypocritical to say you hold life valuable, just like selling a car that has suspect brakes.
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Second crash
When you see both vehicles its unbeliviable that no injuries occured. God was obviously looking after the drivers and passangers that day
This is one of Paul Smiths Powerclenes vehicles
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Glad to know everyone is OK, did Paul have a large tank in the back? if so did it stay in one place or shift a little?
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I describe the crash in an earlier post. It had a full up 800 litre tank in the back and it didnt shift even though the floor actually buckled.
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The problem with any form of crash testing is it is only relevant to the vehicle the test is carried out on. So a different vehicle will react in a different manner therefore a crash test would need to be carried out on each and every make and model of vehicle to ensure the same results, I guess this is fairly obvious, that being said I applaud Ionics for carrying out the tests they did as it certainly put pressure on some to the importance of correct fitting.
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good point glyn - tank frames are generic, they are not designed for a specific van but are designed to go into various models of vans.
as for the videos of crash testing - it is pretty clear that the competitors system wasn't actually bolted down onto the van.
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Another point is that the test would need to be carried out on all sizes of tanks to once again ensure uniform results.
Any variation to design or additional equipment would require a fresh test to once again ensure the same result.
At £20,000 + per test it is financially impossible for what is in real terms a small industry.
If you add all the annual turnovers of wfp manufacturers together its unlikly to be more than 6 or 7 million a year, compaired to most industries this is minute.
For example an average sized builders merchants in a town ( not the likes of a B&Q) or a couple of branches of a Hire shop chain will easily do this amount.
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nah i'm afraid i dont agree with that glyn, I've heard suppliers say that line before and it is the biggest cop-out ever. So your solution is...to do nothing then? To rely on the fact that some guy had a crash and it seemed to be ok?
If you crash your van head on into a solid wall, the strains that pull on the system are gonna basically the same no matter what the make of van. A head on crash is a head on crash.
And as for the tank sizes, I you couldnt test a 300 litre tank and say we'll use the same design for a 1000 litre and it will be ok. BUT, you could do it the other way around. What I mean is if you tested a 1,000 litre system and it was all ok, I think it would be ok to say right, we'll use the same design, clamps, and install procedure and steel and everything as we did for the 1,000 but we'll only use a 600 or 300 litre tank. To me that makes sense. If it held up for the bigger system, it will of course logically be ok for a smaller system.
No offense but both of those arguments are what people say when they basically have no argument at all. I had a very close look at all the systems and things by various suppliers before i bought mine, and what I saw is that nearly everyone is claiming some kind of safety, but always based on just nothing really, but it seems to me that they feel they have to say something.
For example : "installed by professionals" means nothing does it lol. "installed to ministry of transport standards" ministry of transport doesnt even exist anymore. "installed to the highest specifications" lol meaningless. "Professional factory fitted" Lol does the fact it was done in a factory make it safe eh? It shows that they are aware of the danger but are doing basically nothing about it except coming up with good sounding phrases, probably as you said because its too expensive.
I notice that essentially pure even sell their systems for the customer to fit himself! LOL Totally irressponsible that is in my opinion. Can you do that, knowing the risks involved and still claim to hold life as valuable? Personally, I dont think so.
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from my own perspective as to where to go next when we start selling fitted systems.
Alex I find that comment very interesting.
I will be especially interested to see how you handle the delicate subject of safety, from what I understand you are the type of person who places a high value on life and the safety of others. What I mean is, to give an example, if you were to sell a car to someone that you knew had faulty brakes and they died as a result then the blood would be on your hands. Some may disagree with that assumption, but not me and I suspect not you either.
In my mind the same situation is true of systems, and this very seriously influenced my decision to go with a crash-tested system. I was recently very suprised to hear that the likes of tim jardine of essentially pure is supposedly someone like yourself and others on here who hold life valuable, yet are happily installing systems which are potentially lethal (I have personally seen one, and it is plainly highly unsafe).
Personally I think unless you actually crash-test your stuff you just cannot claim to be safe and I cannot help but think it is the utmost hypocrisy for anyone who claims to hold life valuable to be supplying untested stuff, and at the same time rubbishing ionics for doing the testing and safeguarding peoples lives.
I dont expect everyone to agree with me on this point, and thats ok, but I do think there are plenty on here who will understand exactly what I am talking about.
Hi TennentClean
Just to clarify we do not sell fitted systems and we do not sell systems for people to fit themselves. We do not even sell complete DIY systems. As a company we do value life highly, hence the promotion of WFP (which statistically has saved lives in Britain already). If we decide to go ahead with a fitted system project, the issue of safety will be of paramount importance.
I applaud Ionics crash testing, however it is dependent on how their system is fitted and recently I have spoken to two of their clients locally whose Ionics fitted systems have been fitted in such a way that they would have potentially caused a major accident had it not been for an MOT station noticing the lethal fitment. The fault was put right and several expensive poles were provided as compensation. It just shows in life that the detail is as important as the overall idea.
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"The devil is in the detail"
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Hi Tennant
At the time of testing the thermopure system was not in existance, the additionial weight and change of layout to the system may have an effect on the tests the results.
When the test was carried out several changes were required to the OTT/Ionic systems frame structure as the first few sledge tests did not give a good resuilt.
When Renault crash test their Megane (for example) that does not mean that their clio doesnt also require testing because it is smaller and lighter.
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Some systems need crash testing why would you want to mount a 1 ton tank in a steel cage and then add on filter systems a mile of hose all on the same structure , pushing the weight to nearly a ton and half, when there is absolutely no need, most 2 person operations can get away with a 600 l tank with all the filter system left at home. This would half the weight which would need restraining in an accident.
For me 1.4 tons in the back of a van is overkill when half that would do
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Tennent-
Sounds like a desperate man trying to justify a massive over-investment.
Where i come from they would say- You've been had mate, good & proper! ;D
Tony
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Tennet - no offense matey but this is MY area of expertise, I am an engineer (no not someone who fixes dishwashers - an engineer,a real one).
Ionic Systems tanks are completely generic, your point about if the 1000ltr is safe then the 300ltrmust also be, makes total sense, only if the frames used are the same for the 1000ltr and 300ltr, I suspect that they are not although I could be wrong. In a head on collision the major points of failure are likely to be the base mountings, the forward face of the frame and the rear floor bolts (as the tank will inevitably try to lift from the rear). Now lets assume that the tank is fitted correctly, which is through the chassis legs with HTHT (heat treated high tensile) bolts, which are fitted through spreader plates onto the bottom of the chassis leg, the top half of the bolt also needs to be fitted through a spreader plate on the frame - if Ionics have another means of fitting them I would like to hear about it.
Now we have a frame fitted through the chassis legs with spreader plates, the frame has been well engineered to displace load and stress, the frame has been manufactured to standard as well.
Will this one design fit any van - of course not! It needs to line up with the chassis legs correctly on every van, it wont do this, so how do we overcome this problem? Answer there is no real way to overcome this other than specific frames for specific vans, no one does this.
Tennet - take a look under your van and tell me if the spreader plates are fitted to the underside of your chassis legs - in all likeliness they aren't.
Tell me, what does FMVS testing actually prove? Does it prove that the tank will stay in place in a 30mph head on? What about the increased momentum of my vehicle due to it no longer weighing 2ton but now 3ton - how will the crumple ones perform, what about the passenger compartment cell?
If I am wrong then I am wrong - I have never inspected a fitted Ionics system, I have only looked at one sitting out. They look a good system, don't reckon they are worth the money but thats none of my business.
I think I will start designing and manufacturing my own frames, there are a number of key engineering issues that all the manufacturers have missed out on, obviously I'm not going to mention any now.
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Alan
A few good points. I've got another question.
Wouldn't a torsion bar from the top back of the water box/assembly going to a spreader plate on the roof make sence?
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Just had a look at the underneath of my van as i have an Ionics system. I can see the bottom of the bolt which goes through the chassis, it has a nut tightened up onto a rectangular piece of metal, which i assume is a spreader plate? Then in the van it has the so called thatcham tested clamps over the tank frame.
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The key must be the resrtraining frame. The luggage inside no matter what brand it has on it is merely a weight that needs keeping still. The systems thermselves don't need testing, but the integrety of the restraining frame/mechanism does.
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Tennet - no offense matey but this is MY area of expertise, I am an engineer (no not someone who fixes dishwashers - an engineer,a real one).
I know every other post you state you are an engineer, so why are you on a window cleaning forum ;D
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I'm a pioneer and I'm here ain't I ?
One bad call like challenger, or the time I got the resonant frequency calcs wrong on that occilating suspension bridge...
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I'm a pioneer and I'm here ain't I ?
One bad call like challenger, or the time I got the resonant frequency calcs wrong on that occilating suspension bridge...
;D ;D ;D
LOL ;D
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Tomkins - I've been through all this before but here goes again.
I left Engineering principally because of stress, there was also the money factor - I earned good money, however in order to do so I had to work all the overtime going - many times I had no option but to do overtime, work had to be completed on time, no iffs - I couldn't take the stress any longer. Can you imagine working 100hrs a week, mentally fatiguing and highly stressful - mistakes cost big money, or lives. There's no room for error in Aeronautical engineering, none.
There's plenty of other guys on here who are educated in other disciplines who are window cleaners also - I got into window cleaning through a guy I've known most of my life, he got me started and I enjoyed it - no deadlines, no stress. I came close to losing my wife over all the stress, she couldn't live with me, thats if I was even home to see her.
I'm proud of my background, I'm, proud of my education, it has taken me many places and many good times but it nearly killed me.
I know I can rabbit on a little about being an engineer - thats just me, but it really gets me going when people come on the forum saying this that and the other when in reality they know nothing about it - I do and so I feel compelled to add my 10pence whenever the need arises.
If you have a problem with that then you will have to live with it - I'm too old in the tooth to change, nor would I ever want to.
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I'm a pioneer and I'm here ain't I ?
One bad call like challenger, or the time I got the resonant frequency calcs wrong on that occilating suspension bridge...
you spelt oscillating wrong
challenger was inevitable - typical, American project.
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Tomkins - I've been through all this before but here goes again.
I left Engineering principally because of stress, there was also the money factor - I earned good money, however in order to do so I had to work all the overtime going - many times I had no option but to do overtime, work had to be completed on time, no iffs - I couldn't take the stress any longer. Can you imagine working 100hrs a week, mentally fatiguing and highly stressful - mistakes cost big money, or lives. There's no room for error in Aeronautical engineering, none.
There's plenty of other guys on here who are educated in other disciplines who are window cleaners also - I got into window cleaning through a guy I've known most of my life, he got me started and I enjoyed it - no deadlines, no stress. I came close to losing my wife over all the stress, she couldn't live with me, thats if I was even home to see her.
I'm proud of my background, I'm, proud of my education, it has taken me many places and many good times but it nearly killed me.
I know I can rabbit on a little about being an engineer - thats just me, but it really gets me going when people come on the forum saying this that and the other when in reality they know nothing about it - I do and so I feel compelled to add my 10pence whenever the need arises.
If you have a problem with that then you will have to live with it - I'm too old in the tooth to change, nor would I ever want to.
Well well Mr Wilson we seen to have hit a raw nerve there ::)
I like reading these forums and learn quite a lot, but when someone keeps giving it the big " I am" constantly , it grates a little, there is no real need to justify your points of view by keep backing it up with
this is MY area of expertise, I am an engineer (no not someone who fixes dishwashers - an engineer,a real one).
no I don't run an Ionics system - and yes I probably know a lot more about how they work than you (Aeronautical Engineer thanks) so yes I understand quite easily how RO works, how the pumps work etc - its childs play.
I worked in aircraft design many moons ago (I'm an engineer)
I'm also and engineer by trade but not a real one compared to you, I'm just a gas and mechanical one.
Chill out and ;D we all have our problems
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Challenger wasn't inevitable nor typically american if you mean that in a bad way. They put a man on the moon and achieved manned space flight on a regular basis, culminating in the totally unforseeable challenger disaster.
Tenent may be many things, and you may not agree with his opinions, but I don't think he has ever claimed to be an engineer.He has made comments on the evidence and information available to him.
There aren't many engineering issues involved in this at all. It is about securing a box to a chasis.All of the people who install tanks claim them to be safe- the point of difference is being able to demonstrate this in a practical way.
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Does Tennent work for Ionics ?
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He does now ;D ;D
(if thats a serious question, no he doesn't.)
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yeah sorry guys - I know I rabbit on, I can't help it - it was such a big part of my life for years so thats my problem.
Discount - Have you got an American car? ;D