Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: MJH on July 03, 2008, 10:16:38 pm

Title: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 03, 2008, 10:16:38 pm
It doesn't particularly bother me as i am busy with work, but i have been noticing alot more window cleaning van in my area, i saw 7 today (yes counting them now i must be going mad :o :o)
Anyone else noticed this in there area??
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: pjulk on July 03, 2008, 10:45:31 pm
Its the time of year wait until the winters here and most will be gone
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: john tomkins on July 03, 2008, 10:57:03 pm
I've probably seen 7 over the last few weeks, it'll be all the building workers being made redundant
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 03, 2008, 11:11:48 pm
It doesn't particularly bother me as i am busy with work, but i have been noticing alot more window cleaning van in my area, i saw 7 today (yes counting them now i must be going mad :o :o)
Anyone else noticed this in there area??
i said that a while back and they are all in flash new vans all with the wfp gear in
how was you r hols
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: windowwashers on July 03, 2008, 11:38:39 pm
wait till it gets cold, every year seems to be the same march till oct new cleaners.
nov dec jan and feb I pick up loads more work  ;D

The added benifit is these guys start spend out loads then we can buy there systems at near half price after a few month result I recon.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Guy Gibson on July 03, 2008, 11:41:22 pm
I saw a newbie in our road earlier - gave me the creeps.

Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: TennetClean on July 03, 2008, 11:48:39 pm
theres an old guy who lives near me who used to start window cleaning at 7:30am (no joke!) many a time I have been woken up by his ladders clanking against a neighbors house.

He ties his ladders on to his roofrack with a scrim, LOL

newbies keep trying to invade his patch, but he's been doing it for years at about £1.50 a house, so I dont think anyones made any headway yet.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: mci services on July 03, 2008, 11:51:13 pm
It doesn't particularly bother me as i am busy with work, but i have been noticing alot more window cleaning van in my area, i saw 7 today (yes counting them now i must be going mad :o :o)
Anyone else noticed this in there area??
yes your paranoid
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: windowwashers on July 03, 2008, 11:52:16 pm
theres an old guy who lives near me who used to start window cleaning at 7:30am (no joke!) many a time I have been woken up by his ladders clanking against a neighbors house.

He ties his ladders on to his roofrack with a scrim, LOL

newbies keep trying to invade his patch, but he's been doing it for years at about £1.50 a house, so I dont think anyones made any headway yet.
I used to always tie ladders on with scrims job to job
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: dave0123 on July 03, 2008, 11:55:02 pm
Iv noticed a few more people out and about  ::)


you think 7.30 is early?  ??? the idiot who came up our road a few years back started at 6 AM couldnt belive it. I remember seing him cleaning windows at a bout 6.30 or something stupid when i worked in another job.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: mr D on July 04, 2008, 12:30:39 am
comersial jobs 6am no prob but domestic :o no need 4 that!

last month i saw 8 in a day round my mannor thats unheard of! nearly all trad some gave me a wave/nod back as i always give a friendly hello but a couple one inparticula gave nasty evil eyes! i just laughed at them. theres so noneed for it! we could have 50 wc in the towns around me and still wouldnt cover half the houses its just silly.

the one guy who gave me an awfull look was cleaning a house across the road from the one i was. he was about 40 looked like he had been w/c longer than i've been out of nappies and i did 4, yes 4 houses to his 1. one of mine had a conservatry too. how he got so fat i'll never know he cant have much to spend on food working at that rate! ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Ian Rochester on July 04, 2008, 06:11:14 am
We have noticed more and more professional looking vans with WFP systems on around us, nothing to worry about, if you're good at your job and supply a competitive price then it's unlikely you will lose any customers to new competition.

The hardest thing for a new window cleaner, especially one who has invested in a wfp system and van, is getting sufficient customer base quickly enough to pay for the van and system and make a living.

There are a lot of window cleaners out there now and there is only a finite number of people who are willing to pay to have their windows cleaned and they are all getting price sensitive now. 

There are a lot of new starters who are going to the wall because they have overstretched themselves on finance for their vehicles and equipment.  As you may be aware we recently bought a Renault Trafic and Ionics Thermopure System for a song which had been owed by a guy who had been going less than a year.

As for start times, we start commercials at 7am and domestic never before 8am
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: AuRavelling79 on July 04, 2008, 07:20:32 am
theres an old guy who lives near me who used to start window cleaning at 7:30am (no joke!) many a time I have been woken up by his ladders clanking against a neighbors house.

He ties his ladders on to his roofrack with a scrim, LOL

newbies keep trying to invade his patch, but he's been doing it for years at about £1.50 a house, so I dont think anyones made any headway yet.

So what happened when you reported him as a ladder user Tennet? Hmmmm?  :)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Pj on July 04, 2008, 07:29:58 am
No, you're not paranoid, that would suggest an abnormal tendency to mistrust others...

You have every normal reason to mistrust others!  The whole world and his wife are getting tooled up for wfp!  They're hearing from everyone thet you can learn in a day and earn up to £5k a week!
It'll crash one of these days.

I've been in a type of business that did this same thing 25-30 years ago.  Nobody wanted it to end of course....but it did.

We're dooomed :o
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: AuRavelling79 on July 04, 2008, 07:30:34 am
Now a reply to "Am I paranoid?"

Round here there has been an  increase in w/c's until about last year. I put this down to a few reasons.

1. Large number of JW's w/c around here anyway - know for sure three who live within a mile of me. And another two not far away.

2. Local "entrepreneur" setting up franchises

3. Another guy with a reach and wash logo within a mile of me. Also a husband and wife team with a very large van (Ducato?)

IMO this has been good because they are all wfp and it has helped get wfp accepted.

But I know recently of another guy (carpenter) who tried it and went back to his old work and another who moved away to the Midlands. So seems to have "topped out" at the mo'.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Sir Squeaky on July 04, 2008, 08:09:30 am
IMO this has been good because they are all wfp and it has helped get wfp accepted.
I agree totally with that one.
The more wfp the merrier.

I'm still finding 8 out of 10 people haven't seen or heard of it before, and they're not too keen.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on July 04, 2008, 08:33:41 am
I think the reason for seeing more vans is wfp.  I was a trad cleaner a year and a half ago and used a Mondeo, I had a few decent contracts and insurance ect.  However I was told a 650L tank and 2 hose reels would not fit in the back no matter how hard I tried, so I had to get a commercial vehicle as well.

There are probably a few more window cleaners due to recession, down turn, what ever you want to call it.  People loosing their jobs and needing to make a living.  I know a few that have gone into window cleaning wfp from scratch because they have heard the rumors of good money, only to sell their equipment a short time afterward.  But a lot of the established wc's are now making the plunge to wfp and for most of them that will mean buying a van.

Simon.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: davids3511 on July 04, 2008, 07:15:11 pm
People see the job being done and think it is money for old rope. The problem is that only a few have the mentality to deal with the winters for starters, the non earning days that we sometimes get, dealing with the public both to get the customers and then to keep them happy and the slog of getting the first couple of cleans over and done with before you can pick up speed and really start earning.

I only started in August last year and the hardest things for me was getting all the first cleans done, for a few months every other clean was a first clean and it is very frustrating. The results can be a bit iffy and you can't go fast enough to make a good living. Motivation is a big factor int hose first few months. Window cleaning isn't for everybody.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: macmac on July 04, 2008, 08:26:23 pm
Can you blame them? If they only read a few posts on here you could forgive them for thinking wfp is a liscense to print money!!! ::)

& yes 90% of you are guilty as charged! :-*

Tony
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: ftp on July 04, 2008, 08:34:13 pm
One of the franchise companies ran a big advert type thing in our local paper a few weeks ago and stirred up quite a bit of interest. If i had gone down that route when i started i would have been close to bankrupt in my first year. Unless your very good/lucky in canvassing for work - particularly commercial work then it's always going to be a struggle to survive and build a decent paying round. But if you've forked out the kind of money they wanted then your 90% sure to be shafted.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: macmac on July 04, 2008, 08:37:41 pm
One of the franchise companies ran a big advert type thing in our local paper a few weeks ago and stirred up quite a bit of interest. If i had gone down that route when i started i would have been close to bankrupt in my first year. Unless your very good/lucky in canvassing for work - particularly commercial work then it's always going to be a struggle to survive and build a decent paying round. But if you've forked out the kind of money they wanted then your 90% shure to be shafted.

Take a franchise & you become just another number filling someone elses pockets. this trade is not the rocket science some would benefit from you believing is it? ;)

Tony
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 08:54:20 pm
It doesn't particularly bother me as i am busy with work, but i have been noticing alot more window cleaning van in my area, i saw 7 today (yes counting them now i must be going mad :o :o)
Anyone else noticed this in there area??
i said that a while back and they are all in flash new vans all with the wfp gear in
how was you r hols

Thanks Martin, cracking holday mate, didn't want to come back to work ha!!

I agree window cleaning is not for everyone and most will jack it in the winter, i have considered it for the last 5 winters lol!!, it doesn't help that we splash the cash but new starters will realise its not easy to earn very good money for several years...

One thing that concerns me with wfp is the possibility that its driving the prices down!

I priced up a commercial last week and the lady was amazed i could quote so high for just jetting the windows down, it was a very easonable price i hasten to add!!
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Dale Smith on July 04, 2008, 09:31:47 pm
A lot of good points on this thread.
I must admit that we started out like some of these guys, and wish we had slowly built upto it now.
We were lucky that we had some money behind us, as I now know how long it takes to build a decent round.
We would have started in a more modest way if we had the benefit of hindsight..... ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 09:45:56 pm
A lot of good points on this thread.
I must admit that we started out like some of these guys, and wish we had slowly built upto it now.
We were lucky that we had some money behind us, as I now know how long it takes to build a decent round.
We would have started in a more modest way if we had the benefit of hindsight..... ;)

It has taken me a long time to build a decent base, thats why when some folk talk of making big cash almost instantly i struggle to believe, in my experience it takes hard work and im very determind!! It is definatly more competitive in my area of late...
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Rob.Hall on July 04, 2008, 09:57:10 pm
I have to laugh at some of the boys round me. One is expressionless when I give him a nod.

The other two who work as a pair are like Loral and Hardy. You would think they had never tried wc before.

Then there is the old boy who has been around for years, has a nice round with some good commercial. He thinks he is the king around here.
I did a bit of canvessing last year and picked one up of his. The people were not to pleased with the dirty cloth and a quick whip over job. He should have known better. A nice house as well.

I have seen 3 or 4 new boys around inc a reach and wash chappy. His h and s is much to be desired.
Ran the pipe across a pavement then between an open fronted block of flats to get around the corner to the shop front. then you saw the sign......Window cleaning in progress!!

Would have loved to see the H and Safty boys jump on that one.

Im glad I can trad as well as wfp because some people do not seem to pleased with the wfp, especially on painted windows. No care whilst cleaning. Chipping paintwork etc.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 10:01:55 pm
i think wcs should have to do a trad apprentiship before wfp it baffles me that some can't trad!!!!
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 10:10:41 pm
A lot of good points on this thread.
I must admit that we started out like some of these guys, and wish we had slowly built up to it now.
We were lucky that we had some money behind us, as I now know how long it takes to build a decent round.
We would have started in a more modest way if we had the benefit of hindsight..... ;)

It has taken me a long time to build a decent base, that's why when some folk talk of making big cash almost instantly i struggle to believe, in my experience it takes hard work and I'm very determined!! It is definitely more competitive in my area of late...
It is definitely more competitive in my area of late have to strongly agree with you there m8 it very competitive were i work too as for the trad post yes every wfp user should be able to do trad as trad has its place in any job   ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: davids3511 on July 04, 2008, 10:16:01 pm
i think wcs should have to do a trad apprentiship before wfp it baffles me that some can't trad!!!!

Why? I get through about 230 properties a month (going up every month) and have never once traded a house. I know you will say it limits me and I'm not a proper window cleaner but ask my customers what I am. Their reply is all I am worried about.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 10:23:28 pm
i think wcs should have to do a trad apprentiship before wfp it baffles me that some can't trad!!!!

Why? I get through about 230 properties a month (going up every month) and have never once traded a house. I know you will say it limits me and I'm not a proper window cleaner but ask my customers what I am. Their reply is all I am worried about.

I am sure you are excellent at your job, but you can only limit yourself as you say!!

Without getting into the usual boring rubbish of wfp v trad i believe if you promote yourself as a window cleaner you need to be able to blade i have a lot of commercials that are not suited to wfp, and internal work!
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: davids3511 on July 04, 2008, 10:25:39 pm
i think wcs should have to do a trad apprentiship before wfp it baffles me that some can't trad!!!!

Why? I get through about 230 properties a month (going up every month) and have never once traded a house. I know you will say it limits me and I'm not a proper window cleaner but ask my customers what I am. Their reply is all I am worried about.

I am sure you are excellent at your job, but you can only limit yourself as you say!!

Without getting into the usual boring rubbish of wfp v trad i believe if you promote yourself as a window cleaner you need to be able to blade i have a lot of commercials that are not suited to wfp, and internal work!

I know you are right, however, I have more work that is suited to WFP than I can handel right now. In my particular circumstances I don't need to be able to trad. If that changes, I will learn how. Personally I try to avoid insides, I'm often a  little accident prone and don't really want to be trashing about inside someones house.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 10:27:05 pm
A lot of good points on this thread.
I must admit that we started out like some of these guys, and wish we had slowly built up to it now.
We were lucky that we had some money behind us, as I now know how long it takes to build a decent round.
We would have started in a more modest way if we had the benefit of hindsight..... ;)

It has taken me a long time to build a decent base, that's why when some folk talk of making big cash almost instantly i struggle to believe, in my experience it takes hard work and I'm very determined!! It is definitely more competitive in my area of late...
It is definitely more competitive in my area of late have to strongly agree with you there m8 it very competitive were i work too as for the trad post yes every wfp user should be able to do trad as trad has its place in any job   ;)

Other than the economy down turn, why do you think Leeds is now so competative M.B.S ::) ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 10:29:28 pm
i think wcs should have to do a trad apprentiship before wfp it baffles me that some can't trad!!!!

Why? I get through about 230 properties a month (going up every month) and have never once traded a house. I know you will say it limits me and I'm not a proper window cleaner but ask my customers what I am. Their reply is all I am worried about.

I am sure you are excellent at your job, but you can only limit yourself as you say!!

Without getting into the usual boring rubbish of wfp v trad i believe if you promote yourself as a window cleaner you need to be able to blade i have a lot of commercials that are not suited to wfp, and internal work!

I know you are right, however, I have more work that is suited to WFP than I can handel right now. In my particular circumstances I don't need to be able to trad. If that changes, I will learn how. Personally I try to avoid insides, I'm often a  little accident prone and don't really want to be trashing about inside someones house.

Internals are good for the bad weather m8 and if you can blade quickly they pay well, i guess you only do domestics!!
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: ftp on July 04, 2008, 10:31:27 pm
I started wfp - never picked up a squeegie in my life! Was going fine untill i was asked to quote a school inside and out - had to learn trad pretty sharpish for the insides. I actually enjoy using the blade even though i haven't fully mastered it or got up to speed yet.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 10:36:16 pm
I started wfp - never picked up a squeegie in my life! Was going fine untill i was asked to quote a school inside and out - had to learn trad pretty sharpish for the insides. I actually enjoy using the blade even though i haven't fully mastered it or got up to speed yet.
Thanks FTP you answered in a nut shell my point, its like saying your an electrician that can't change a lightbulb :P ::)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 10:40:11 pm
i think it because more and more w/c  are now coming from wider afield
as wfp is quicker so they are traveling further and further to get a decent clientele
and also i have seen a lot more wfp cleaners about this is what i think what about you  
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: ftp on July 04, 2008, 10:41:48 pm
I had no intention of using trad when i started but it's opened up so many chances to earn more money, you would be daft not to use it in my opinion - so many customers want the insides done.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 10:44:09 pm
I had no intention of using trad when i started but it's opened up so many chances to earn more money, you would be daft not to use it in my opinion - so many customers want the insides done.
theres always a place for trad ok your round is allwfp but if a large com job come your way would you turn it down because you cannot trad also you said you will learn if the com job came up its not a job to learn on imo
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 10:52:49 pm
i think it because more and more w/c  are now coming from wider afield
as wfp is quicker so they are traveling further and further to get a decent clientele
and also i have seen a lot more wfp cleaners about this is what i think what about you  

You probably hit the nail on the head, i have seen a few wakey vans etc etc around here big city - big money, it doesnt always work like that, commercial here is busy to say the least, and good point about wfp only!!!
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 10:59:00 pm
thanks mjh
im both trad and wfp but had years of experiance trad before i went wfp the trusted old blade is always in the van and comes out at least once a week for shops and at least once a week for the odd domestic and com window
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 11:02:43 pm
My blade is out daily mate, bit of fairy and blade is faultless every time!! ;) ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 11:04:53 pm
My blade is out daily mate, bit of fairy and blade is faultless every time!! ;) ;)
;) im off to bed now  up at 5 are you in town tomoz mjh early morning
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 11:06:52 pm
Ha, tomorrow, no chance bud im still catching up from my travels will chill till monday, have fun!!! :D
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 11:09:48 pm
Ha, tomorrow, no chance bud im still catching up from my travels will chill till monday, have fun!!! :D
good for you have a good layin m8 catch you around one day i did see you speeding past the irish center a few week ago  but i was on the oposit side of the rd you have silver lettering on white van i think it was you
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: MJH on July 04, 2008, 11:12:37 pm
Ha, tomorrow, no chance bud im still catching up from my travels will chill till monday, have fun!!! :D
good for you have a good layin m8 catch you around one day i did see you speeding past the irish center a few week ago  but i was on the oposit side of the rd you have silver lettering on white van i think it was you

Thats me m8 we will chat soon, beep next time im always bombing around there and forgetting  about the speed cameras!! ??? ???
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 11:14:34 pm
Ha, tomorrow, no chance bud im still catching up from my travels will chill till monday, have fun!!! :D
good for you have a good layin m8 catch you around one day i did see you speeding past the irish center a few week ago  but i was on the oposit side of the rd you have silver lettering on white van i think it was you

Thats me m8 we will chat soon, beep next time im always bombing around there and forgetting  about the speed cameras!! ??? ???
;D ;D right must go to bed now see you around m8
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Dean Aspects on July 04, 2008, 11:15:24 pm
Do window cleaners in Leeds only use three letters (m.b.s MJH)  :P
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 11:17:03 pm
Do window cleaners in Leeds only use three letters (m.b.s MJH)  :P
you could join us  and be D T A  ;D :P
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Dean Aspects on July 04, 2008, 11:20:15 pm
Do i have to move to Leeds though?  ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: m.b.s. on July 04, 2008, 11:25:19 pm
Do i have to move to Leeds though?  ;)
no we dont need any more compatition things are bad enought right going to bed now see you all tomoz good night  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: mr D on July 04, 2008, 11:34:25 pm
must say i do like this post lots of possative talk of trad even though its well off topic as per usural .lol

just to add i think david you should/must learn to trad. its not hard and if your planning to be the best w/c in your chosen are weather your gonna do it wfp or trad its a must. other wise you are making a mockery of the inderstry IMO. if you want tips i along with loads of others on here would be happy to help as you have always posted friendly honest posts from my knollage. ive trained up quite a few blokes in my short time w/c and they all turned out to be the muts nuts like yours truely. 8)lol
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: mark dew on July 05, 2008, 04:12:16 am
i started off traditional for a couple of years before getting wfp and i am glad i did.
But cleaning windows trad isn't rocket science. The only real difference between someone using a squeegee for the 1st time and a veteran is the income per hour they will earn.
The vet will be not that far away from a basic wfp hourly rate and the new guy (if doing it properly) will probably be near minimum wage.
A bad job done trad is mostly due to laziness. Technique i think is a long way back at 2nd.
Title: Re: Am i paranoid??
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 05, 2008, 10:38:50 am
Can you blame them? If they only read a few posts on here you could forgive them for thinking wfp is a liscense to print money!!! ::)

& yes 90% of you are guilty as charged! :-*

Tony

BVetter keep posting about the 10k a week income then as I could do with a load of cheap second hand WFP kit coming onto the market   :)