Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike Roper on July 02, 2008, 01:05:19 pm
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There doesnt seem to be much feedback from all those who took advantage of Rogers kind offer of sample product kits at the carpet cleaners day out. So come on then what do you think ? Have you used any products?
Mike
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Yes I tried ink remover yesterday
Also one or two of other products.
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Ink mark removed also ........... job was put off so not had full clean yet ::)
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Mike, thanks for your initiative!
To those who receive the kit.
It is good for the forum to hear your experience on these leather safe (pH 3-5) products if you have tried them.
And for me to further explain the differences as LTT thinks pH value of cleaning products is irrelevant to leather cleaning.
It is also good to know your experience with the fatliquor5.0™.
LTT thinks fatliquor conditioning is… “I thought the object was to clean it!!!!!”
This little information on fatliquor I attached as part of my sales presentation is always welcome by my customer.
So take it as extra add-ons to your services, why not?
Let me know what you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Structure Fatliquor Conditioning for Leather Softness & Strength!
Fatliquor conditioner is natural oil that has undergone an emulsification process.
Thus enable oil to be dispersed evenly throughout the entire internal leather fiber structure during application.
As an aqueous emulsion; the oil is held suspended as microscopic droplets in the water, similar to nature's milk.
Fatliquor resembles milk in appearance and penetrates and deposits oil to the leather fiber structure before breaking.
Penetration:
Non-absorbent (finished or protected) leathers especially the pigmented type; due to its heavier color and top coat formulation; sometimes with additional protective top coating cross-linked for extra toughness makes penetration into the leather internal structure impossible.
The reverse suede side, perforation holes, needle-holes, macro and micro cracks are soft spots left for penetrating these leathers.
Semi-absorbent leathers as most semi-aniline; due to its color and top coat light formulation makes it more difficult for conditioner to penetrate the leather uniformly.
Thus requires rehydrating or surface tension treatment prior to effective fatliquoring for overall even appearances.
Absorbent unfinished (aniline, naked, nubuck, suede, pure, vegetable-tanned) leathers absorb fatliquor readily.
Process:
Fatliquor is spray immediately after cleaning while the leather is still damp.
This procedure ensures uniform absorbency and distribution to coat the fibrils structure without excess.
When the emulsion is exhausted by the leather fibrils the excess water will evaporate in the drying process.
Thus leaving the inter-fibrillary spaces void for leather breathability.
Principles:
Signs of diminishing fatliquor are manifested as coarse breaks, creases and wrinkles.
Lost of leather tensile strengths are revealed as visible needle-hole splits, easily rips and snags.
Thus fatliquor lost through ageing require regular replenishing to maintain the leather's integrity and pliability.
When these fatliquor-deprived leathers go to cleaning without re-fatliquoring, the after drying leather negative conditions like coarseness and stiffness will accentuate further.
A timely fatliquoring process immediately after cleaning and before the leather dries helps solve this natural oil depletion phenomenal.
Fatliquor in leather garment usually contains10 to 20%, while upholstery leather contains 15 to 30%.
But the oils in the leather fibril structure makes up only a small 3 to 10% in relation to the weight of leather.
Effects:
Fatliquor is applied to the damp leather, ideally in a condition where the leather fibers are fully hydrated but little free water exists in the spaces between the fibers.
Application of fatliquor to completely dry leather results in rapid absorption into the fibers, often resulting in dark-colored, greasy patches.
Moreover, the resultant leather is not as soft, resilient or full as when the fatliquor is applied to the damp, hydrated fiber.
Drying:
Drying time varies depending on the amount of moisture remaining after cleanng, prevailing temperature and humidity conditions.
Leather should be dried using ambient conditions of temperature and humidity.
Forced drying, especially using heat is not recommended.
Providing proper ventitlation and air movement is highly recommended to expedite drying.
fatliquor5.0™ is a technological breakthrough that enable diminished original tannery fatliquor to be replenished from an easy ready to use spray bottle.
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Are there anymore kits available Roger ?
I appreciate they wouldn't be at the price you supplied them for the CCDO deal.
Steve
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Steve,
Thanks for your interest.
Those were freely sent except the tax through the courtesy of Paul!
Don’t have to buy water and bottles from me, get them cheaply yourself!
Now these products come in concentrates.
You become the “bottling plant” just add distilled water.
Example rinse3.0™ ratio is 1: 80.
You will certainly smile when you see your cost against the retail price.
I supply the original labels with custom print too.
“Bottle by: Carpet Care Plus 01 737 819622”
You become the user and the distributor with the full technical backing of the Leather Doctor® System.
Toll free customer service is currently been arranged for your customers too!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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How much for the kit and the labels Roger, including taxes ?
Or e-mail me seperatley if you prefer.
Steve
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Products in concentrates are shipped free to your door steps.
Labels are free too; just print direct from PDF files from your end.
You are the bottling plant; I only sell you the concentrates.
Check your email for the price list.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Roger ........ i would be happy to receive same email ;)
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Yes Roger, I'd like that email also.
Shaun
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Chris,
Thanks, price on the way.
The starter kit with the currency conversion shows the price per liter in £.
See the price advantage even in such small volume.
The full list is also available that comprise of 36 cleaning and conditioning products.
Not only just leathers.
But also for Fur skin, Woolskin and Hair-on-skin!
You will become a manufacturer and a distributor instantly.
As I said before, I supply you multiply!
Your customer wins!
You win!
And I win!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Roger
I'm interested in your approach to leather cleaning and products.
Can you email me details of prices and products.
Thanks
Mike
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Hi Roger
I would be interested too
Please e - mail details to: sales@kinderclean.co.uk
Thanks
Paul
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Hi Roger
Could you also send me the email to please
thanks Nick
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Roger mail me your prices as well please,
info@shannoncleaning.co.uk
Mark
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havent got a clue what you on about.
Thought we used the product not the customer
anyway ssend me info please as I always wanted a bottling plant in Scotland
iangourlay@yahoo.co.uk
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Hi Roger
Can you put me on your list too please.
e-mail kestrelcleaning@hotmail.com.
Best regards
Roger Underhill
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Ian,
You are right both ways.
Dilute the concentrate with “Empty Water”.
Use it for your service at cost.
Distribute the remaining bottles to retail outlets.
Example to furniture, garment, equestrian, cars, etc.
When they require professional service, your name and phone number is on the bottle.
Both ways you win, price shopper sell these and educate them to do themselves.
When comes to quoting a job, we can be flexible to quote separate the products and the hourly rate.
Let your customer choose from you, rather than from another source.
Your profile is upgraded too.
Manufacturer
Distributor
Leather Specialist
And truly your bottling plant will grow!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Mike Osbourne,
Return mails, please check
Roger Koh
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Could you email me also Roger, many thanks.
kdkcleaningservices@uwclub.net
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Nothing through yet Roger.
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Mine went to Spam ;D
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Hi Roger
Can you send my self a price list etc please?
info@ecoklean.co.uk
Thanks steve
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Roger
The SLTC has a sister organisation in the USA called the ALCA (American Leather Chemists Association) which has a forum that you have appeared on a couple of times.
When asked about re fatliquoring part of their response was
'.........the fatliquors in the leather are covering all the leather fibres making it soft and will remain there for all the useful life of the goods'
and in response to a question about 'conditioning' this was the response
'First there is an issue with jargon here. Conditioning to a tanner normally means moisture control, which can be very critical to fit with leather since moisture tends to expand leather, thus too much moisture and then the piece may dry too small after sewn in place, or conversely a dry piece sewn into place may turn out to be loose and wrinkled when it absorbs moisture from the air.
'....The use of "conditioners" is a whole empty and useless topic just as you note. Especially with upholstery with a tough finish coat. That is why plastic conditioner is the same as leather conditioner in many of the marketing games. Even though oils and a small amount of moisture are good for leather over time, it can not be delivered in any real sense through these finishes.
Also, as you have noted, this junk is mostly water and little active, useful ingredient. ..............(they have) been found to be nearly all water and little else, but very successfully marketed.
Generally leather loses moisture and lubrication over long periods of time and heavy use, so the treatment would be of value only to replenish lost fatliquor and moisture from baking and rubbing over long periods. Consequently, new leather, stored and handled properly, would only be over treated with conditioner resulting in staining, over sizing, even removal or dilution of fungicides, etc. with treatment......'
and they also pointed out that
'......as we can see from those who have something to sell, they can be very persuasive, using facts to make a great case while completely ignoring meaningful points such as the fact that it does nothing.....'
and in response to your own post about your products they stated
'Roger, I am impressed with your presentation and enthusiasm though I certainly have clearly stated opposing positions....'
Our opinions will be presented to the SLTC conference this year
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Hi roger would appreciate an email price list too
steverjc@tiscali.co.uk
regards
steve
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Still nothing.
I feel victimized :'(
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Keep an open healthy business mind everyone!
We are only interested to prosper through a business transaction that benefits all party concern.
A frog in a well is good sometimes, but not all the times!
Conditions relevance to “indoor leather goods” may be totally difference for all outdoor goods!
As today leathers are generally found indoor more than outdoor our main focus is such.
Leather Structure Conditioning
Leather Surface Conditioning
Add these products to your range.
I will sell by pails in container loads especially to LTT.
Then you may have to do a lot of clean-up here!
FC is welcome too; to make your bottling plant busier after all you already have your market but lack the range.
All are welcome to this “breakthrough” technology that benefits “To Whom It May Concern”.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Mike this message is for you
Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
Recipient address: mwo@btinternet.co.uk
Reason: Illegal host/domain name found
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Roger
try mwo@btinternet.com
Thanks
Mike
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Rodger you remind me of a old chap i met in 1999.... he was great at sales in fact he took 10k off and there i was "Home'n'dry"....my own dry carpet cleaning co.............mmmmmm is it just me or am i too near the bottling plant in Scotland ???????????? ???
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I think what my point is ...?1 why arent you just setting up a distibuter in this country or go one better franchise it over here ???
Just questions id like to ask ?
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Cynical, or what ?
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id call it being long in the tooth !!!! :P
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I'll have that email too please roger.
Worth a look at least
andy@accyork.co.uk
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From the kit I got at CCDO it's very high quality I especailly like the leather scent.
Shaun
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James123,
I sympathize with your financial losses.
Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes!
I too have financial losses and I can understand your feeling, mine is 150K.
Fifteen times bigger than yours, I think same year too, but different situation.
How gullible we can be?
I like guys like you who have shared similar misfortune.
It is also a lesson learned.
Always, thinking of how I can recoup such losses from another more promising enterprise.
Here I am, I would never want any poor soul to experience the devastating experience I had.
It was my turning point in life to practice the golden rule:
Thou shall not …
If my time on earth is a clock that has 12 hours, I only have few more hours left!
I only want to leave a legacy - Leather Doctor® survives and I vanishes away empty handed, and all is left behind.
It will do no good for the leather cleaning & restoration industry if I survive this breakthrough technology just for my grave.
I would want to share it with you, because you are at the forefront of this industry that makes the difference.
James123, do you want me to answer your other question?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Wondered what you regard as " long in the tooth " James, as I am now in my 63rd year and hopefully a lot less cynical than in my younger days.
Not sure what you meant about the Scottish bottling plant !
Rob M
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Rob I thought you had taken yourself off the forums?
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I had indeed, but got withdrawal symptoms !! Hope your event went well .
rob m