Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: tatman on June 30, 2008, 09:43:33 pm
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Had alot of custies asking for gutter clearance but since wfp dont really see the logic of getting up there. I do the odd one but decline some to be honest. Been looking at the omipole gutter vacs anyone use these of anything similar? I rekon be a good money spinner ::)
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I went down to Omnipole in London a fortnight ago and they demonstrated it to me. Was impressed. Pole is VERY heavy and obviously robust. Will order one soon.
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A guttervac looks like it might be a useful bit of kit to have. Buying a complete kit isn't cheap.
I'd been thinking about this and come up with what might be (although it might not be) a cunning plan.
A local hire centre hires out an 80 litre, 3600 watt machine on a wheeled base at about £20 a day/£48 per week. This machine has a similar specification to the guttervac.
I was planning on putting together a few sections of 2" drainpipe with a J on the end which should fit onto a 51 mm suction pipe and attaching that to the machine. Something similar to the pipe on the Upkeeper.
(http://www.upkeeper.co.uk/Gutter%20Keeper_files/gutterguys.jpg)
There's a video available on their website: www.upkeeper.co.uk/gutter_keeper.wmv though you might want to turn your speakers down.
Hire a machine for a weekend and just have a play with it and see what needs to be done to make it work whilst clearing out my own and other unsuspecting family members' gutters.
Then, if it's a goer, put a week's work together and hire the machine for a week. Do that a few times and see how it goes. If it's OK, invest in a machine of my very own. If it's only moderately successful, keep on doing the odd week here and there and just hiring it when needed.
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good idea.. get a vac for free
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www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=51156.0
Goes higher than an Upkeeper and lighter than an Omnivac.
One man operation up to 60ft......
Been useing mine for about 5 months now with no problems.
Regards
Mr H
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Yes, Mr H. This looks like a really good way of doing things. It seems to have the advantages of both the omnivac and the upkeeper without the drawbacks.
The question that is screaming in my tiny little mind is: what vacuum machine do you use?
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The 640M....
Available from
www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/Industrial_Vacuums_and_Fittings.html
or
www.dualpumps.co.uk/pages/vacuum_cleaners/subs/wet_dry_vacuums.htm
Its the same machine Omnivac use. 3600W of power through 3 motors so you can use only 1 if needed when doing lower buildings or all 3 for higher or dirtier gutters. It is a wet and dry to, so no worries if the down pipes are blocked and loads of standing water in the gutter or the leaves are wet.
regards
Mr H
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Mr H
Doesnt buying it in the way you suggest work out to be more expensive that buying the purpose built unit from us and you will only have a 38mm version rather than the required 51mm ? And you will not have the wide range of purpose built fittings that we supply with the unit.
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Mr H
Doesnt buying it in the way you suggest work out to be more expensive that buying it from us and you will only have a 38mm version rather than the required 51mm ? And you will not have the range of fittings that we supply with the unit.
Difficult question to answer, that one.
You'd need to supply a list of precisely what your kit comprises of and the total price. Others would then be free to compare the cost of buying it from you and shopping around sourcing/making the components.
Then, we could get a definitive answer.
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Not really difficult to answer
As our unit is a competly built 51mm unit with 15 metres of crush proof lightweight hose, five different heads to tackle any size gutter and LONG lasting aerospace alloy poles.
Price from £1090.00 24' version upto £1290.00 for 48' version
Mr H version
is a 38mm vac with as an added purchase an extra 10 metres of standard black hose, one head that you have to construct yourself which is an exact copy of one of Our designs that is then coupled to a carbon fibre pole. The vac will need to be adapted to take larger bore hose if you want it to work more efficiently
Dont know how much the carbon pole is but if you add all the parts up their cant be a lot in it.
Also you cannot use our marketing advantages in your advertising like winner of the 2006 BoB award for innovation, nor can you use the HSE dvd that shows the Omnipole GutterVac in use
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One more important issue is who do you think Architects, Surveyors,Facility Managers, contact when they are looking to have work carried out?
A company with with a nationwide network of contractors or a guy advertising his diy unit?
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One more important issue is who do you think Architects, Surveyors,Facility Managers, contact when they are looking to have work carried out?
A company with with a nationwide network of contractors or a guy advertising his diy unit?
just about to take mine out of the box,its been sat in the garage since Friday!!
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i use my omni-vac every week and love it :)
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mr h can you tell me if the gutter spike can be fitted to the pole that comes with the gutter vac. and also, can one man use the omni cam on his own and if so how do you hold the monitor and the pole at the same time.??
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who do you work for glyn? which supplier?
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who do you work for glyn? which supplier?
sorry my post was for glyn h. i got mixed up, it must be all the sun ive had today!!
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Glyn Howard owns Omnipole ;)
His system is second to none, I have seen them all including Mr H's.
If you want a machine that is a real work horse and is built to last, with support and spare parts at the end of the phone buy the Omnivac.
I have the full system, It gets used most days and earns big bucks if advertised correctly. When your pricing a job (commercial), work out the costs of the alternatives an price accordingly. Triple your best daily residential price and your starting to get the idea!!!
;D
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earns big bucks if advertised correctly
I know that this is going off topic slightly, but can you let us into your advertising secrets?
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Your biggest source of customers with high gutters and staff that can't possibly do any work out side of the Health and Safety regulations are..... the council.... find the chap you need to talk to with your revolutionary new machine, send him pics etc, or direct him to your website and you will guaranteed get the work as you will probably be the only person in your area with a machine. The council loves to save cash, the Omnivac does that ;D
There are many more machines available but the work that Glyn Howard from Omnipole has done with the Health and Safety executive paves the way.
So back on topic - Gutter vacs are they any good? I know my Omnivac is, its tried and tested and is one of my biggest earners.
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I bought one of these with 17metres of hose two months ago. The whole thing cost me £390 but it has paid for itself five times over in that time, I now need to look at setting at all up to operate from the ground. This is more than powerfull enough though and you only need to move the vacuum once or twice to access all round the average detatched house. Best money I've spent this summer!!
Just put the item number into ebay and search, company is based in Liverpool and extremely helpful.
Ideal for Carwash, Valetting,Garages, cars, vans & HGV Item number: 350074572980
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I bought one of these with 17metres of hose two months ago. The whole thing cost me £390 but it has paid for itself five times over in that time, I now need to look at setting at all up to operate from the ground. This is more than powerfull enough though and you only need to move the vacuum once or twice to access all round the average detatched house. Best money I've spent this summer!!
Just put the item number into ebay and search, company is based in Liverpool and extremely helpful.
Ideal for Carwash, Valetting,Garages, cars, vans & HGV Item number: 350074572980
I've been looking longingly at this as well. The only question I have is the diameter of the hose. I think it's 38 mm or 1 1/2 inches.
Is that right?
Is it enough? I'd assumed that 51 mm or 2 inch was better.
Is it 38 mm? Is that enough or did you mod it to 51 mm?
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The vac hose is 38mm however, I personally have only had one problem with this, and it was cleaning dirty full gutters just after rainfall and I thought one of the vacuums was broken (there was a change to the tone of the machine). The problem was there was a build up of sludge along the length of the hose which was restricting air flow, now that I know this happens I keep an eye on it it's easily fixed all you do is suck up half a bucket full of water which dilutes the gunge into a slimier consistency. I think that the same thing would happen to a 51mm hose though. Oh and you have to keep an eye on the suction end to make sure you haven't blocked the pipe with mortar debris from the gutters.
But for the price it's fantastic and in my humble opinion well worth every penny, and the custy's when they see you wheeling R2D2 up their drive is amazing :o
And I sell it to them as much safer, much cleaner and no chances of any mess on the walls or spillages around the property. If you want to you can also dispose of all the waste product either on their compost heap, or in their garden recycle bin (after removing the water if there is any), or you can take it away with you.
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Fine, good powered machine, great for domestics, but the 38 mm is too small for larger commercial work.
I recently did some work with Mr H, he was using his DIY vac with 38mm hose, I was using my Omnivac with 51mm hose and tools. I did 3/4 of the job while Mr H did 1/4. Ok I have more experience than Mr H, but the rest of it is made up because the larger hose is more efficient and blocks less. Remember time is money.
The 50 mm hose has only blocked once for me and thats because I sucked up a tee shirt from a large commercial gutter and that was where the hose entered the machine, which will give you an idea of the power.
If you want a machine with a truly commercial application buy an Omnivac!
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Aha!
One for Kevin R, ... and anyone else who wants to respond.
This is what I had suspected all along. It's the size of the gutters that determines the size of machine you need.
(OK, it's not a one-to-one correspondence, but it's near enough.)
So for domestics, a 38 mm is probably going to be more than adequate. But if I wanted to go for bigger commercial building a 51 mm would be more practical.
Is that right?
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An average dwelling or business with household style gutters and as long as they are not blocked or full of plants the 38 mm would be OK. So good for maintenance cleans
However in the real world people only call you when the gutters are blocked.
Also deep commercial gutters hold much much more before they look like they need attention, and again in my experience you will only get a call when there is visible problems. The bigger the better when it comes to hose is my opinion.
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To a point yes, but its about the watts of the machine that counts! higher the watts the higher you can clean
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Mr H
Doesnt buying it in the way you suggest work out to be more expensive that buying the purpose built unit from us and you will only have a 38mm version rather than the required 51mm ? And you will not have the wide range of purpose built fittings that we supply with the unit.
It works out slightly cheeper Glyn but the main price saving is that you can use SL2 base sections tht might otherwise be just laying around not earning money. If you have purchased a 60ft SL2 then you already have the poles for doing gutters up to 20ft and so just buy extra sections if you need them. So if you take into account have a dual use wfp pole then it adds to the saving.
The other saving is in weight. 1 man can go up to 60ft and not need an extra support pole.
Your 24ft system is £1090 + vat doing a DIY is around £800 + vat
Main difference would be a higher 60ft system for cleaning gutters.
Can't find a price for a 60ft on your website but we can work round that....
(If I do have your prices wrong then just let me know and I'll change it)
To empty and clean a gutter at 60ft using an Omnivac you would need the Omnivac (48ft is £1290 so lets say £1400 for 60ft) + a second person + a 60ft pole to clean the outside of the guttering, lets say an SL2.
With a DIY system you would still need a 60ft pole (SL2) as with yours plus 8 additional sections £400 and a vacumm £500 plus and lets say £100 of other bits.
So the saving is about £400 or 20% PLUS it has become a 1 man operation thereby saving more money each time its used and its easier on the joints especially when used at lower heights.
The only alteration I have made to the vac is to remove the "L" shaped plastic piece behind the inlet manafold to stop twigs from causing a blockage.
What do you mean by "REQUIRED 51mm" ?
I use 38mm hose and actually fit the short extension pole that comes with the vac inside the hose so actually making it slightly smaller again.
I find the extra concentration of suction works well because you have a slightly larger void behind the narrow part that anything sucked up will not block the hose further down. The only part that can get blocked is the very tip of the nozel and if it does then I just run it across the edge of the gutter and it clears.
As I have said before I have not tried to knock your system Glyn, mearly offered a DIY system, just like some people post how to DIY a trolley system, van mount system or convert a fishing pole to WFP.
the DIY system has some advantages your system currently lacks and visa-versa.
The advantages of your system are as you said.... Having extra tools ready made, some help with advertising and other support.
As a oneman operation I have considered adding one of your poles to my system for doing standard domestics as I already have the vac.
I'm actually surprised you haven't looked in to useing the emporium poles you sell, for higher reach vacuuming, as it would then be the best of both worlds... The backup, support and a lightweight oneman operation........
Oh and one other thing......
One more important issue is who do you think Architects, Surveyors,Facility Managers, contact when they are looking to have work carried out?
A company with with a nationwide network of contractors or a guy advertising his diy unit?
No one advertises that they use a DIY or a mass produced system and no one asks either.
All they are interested in is will it do the job and the price.
A descent DIY system will certainly look the part and do the job.
Regards
Mr H
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To a point yes, but its about the watts of the machine that counts! higher the watts the higher you can clean
Were talking hose size but thats not always true, I do a maintenance gutter clean twice a year on a hotel (35ft). I use one motor (1200 watts) on the vac as I am generally removing just leaves. However when I first did it I had to use all three motors as the gutters were very blocked (3600).
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My DIY system was a lot cheaper than the main dealers!
I was lucky, as I got a ex demo vacuum cleaner 3000watts, a 51mm hose and inlet for the side of the tank and SLS sections and u bend, I would say I have saved about four hundred pounds in total, yes it has been a pain trying to get things together but for me SL2 has made the big difference over the other poles that are available as they are just too heavy and that’s the fed back from the user of theses main dealer vac systems
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www.starmakina.com.tr/en/ProductDetail.Asp?List=1&Table=1&Product=14
4200 watt triple motor 60 litre wet vac with 51mm fittings & hose. £378 + Vat
The UK distributor is Bayersan UK Ltd, based in Surrey. 07878427580 or bayersanuk@hotmail.com
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The hoses do need to be a bit heavy duty as they get dragged about a bit. Also Omnipole hoses are next to impossible to kink.
If you add a decent hose, poles and tubes to this 4200 watt vac you might as well buy an Omnivac and save yourself the hassle?
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Hi kev, the 60ft is lovely to use, a bit of a difference from the old ionics.
back to topic ,Ive been thinking about getting the guttervac, your right when you say " they only ask you when its obvious theres a problem" i was asked by a nursing home to do a gutter clean and could see grass growing from the gutters, do the guttervacs suck it straight out or do you have to wet it 1st or rake it out.
what % of your comercial gutter cleans are 2nd floor and higher, i only ask this as the upkeeper looks a good bit of kit also
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Hi kev, the 60ft is lovely to use, a bit of a difference from the old ionics.
back to topic ,Ive been thinking about getting the guttervac, your right when you say " they only ask you when its obvious theres a problem" i was asked by a nursing home to do a gutter clean and could see grass growing from the gutters, do the guttervacs suck it straight out or do you have to wet it 1st or rake it out.
what % of your comercial gutter cleans are 2nd floor and higher, i only ask this as the upkeeper looks a good bit of kit also
Hi Steve,
I use a gutter spike to break up any big bit of rooted plant, but smaller stuff like grass will just get sucked straight into the vac mostly. (50 mm tool) No need to wet it just use a spike.
The majority of my commercial cleans are three story. This is also where the money seems to be as the alternatives are expensive.
;D
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No one advertises that they use a DIY or a mass produced system and no one asks either.
All they are interested in is will it do the job and the price.
A descent DIY system will certainly look the part and do the
Hi Mr H
You misunderstood the point I made - we are contacted regularly by potential customers across the UK looking for contractors to carry out the work, we then pass on the details of the closest contractor.
The enquiry's come from Architects, Surveyors, Property managing agents, Hospitals, Ministry of Defence etc.
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The thing is that it all boils down to affordability, I have a system that suits my current needs and it has cost me under £400. All I am cleaning at the moment is domestic gutters and 38mm has been sufficient for all of the jobs that I have done (I have also sucked up a t shirt and a sheet of scrim and neither got stuck at the inlet port). I've managed to clean gutters that were full to overflowing with plants with no problems.
The vacuum I bought has enough power, has three vacuums and an eighty litre capacity. I could have gone out and bought the top of the range Omnivac and still been waiting to get into profit, but I didn't and it's now profit all the way till it packs up!
It all depends on what you want to do and how much you've got available to spend. I would definately recommend the vacuum that I bought as it ticks all of my needs boxes! ??? ;D ::)
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The thing is that it all boils down to affordability, I have a system that suits my current needs and it has cost me under £400. All I am cleaning at the moment is domestic gutters and 38mm has been sufficient for all of the jobs that I have done (I have also sucked up a t shirt and a sheet of scrim and neither got stuck at the inlet port). I've managed to clean gutters that were full to overflowing with plants with no problems.
The vacuum I bought has enough power, has three vacuums and an eighty litre capacity. I could have gone out and bought the top of the range Omnivac and still been waiting to get into profit, but I didn't and it's now profit all the way till it packs up!
It all depends on what you want to do and how much you've got available to spend. I would definately recommend the vacuum that I bought as it ticks all of my needs boxes! ??? ;D ::)
Summing up, as Brian says its horses for courses, what works for Brian will work for some.
Personally, I use members of staff or sub contractors to clean gutters with my equipment, a DIY system is not an option as its not "fit for Purpose" or is it being used as the manufacturer intended. This is a problem for me. If the pole section failed and caused injury to me, my staff or a member of the public, where would I be legally? By buying a commercial system from a legitimate company I am protected. I am happy to pay for piece of mind, quality equipment that works and its not "taped" together, and great customer service. Omnipole meet all these requirements, which is why I own a Omnivac and all its related equipment.
A further point to make is that on several occasions I have come across custom made guttering that is deeper, wider etc etc than the standard and cleaning it has been problematic. On these occasions Glyn H has made me custom tools to overcome the problems in order to complete the job. So the Omnivac might be a few quid but in my experience its money well spent ;)
Gutter clearing with Vacuums is still in its infancy - Glyn H is developing his system and tooling all of the time because he is in contact with the end users like myself. By buying an Omnivac you are also buying into that experience and thats worth ££££££ of anyones money ;)
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When doing gutter cleaning, what do you do with the rubbish because i can imagine with a large property there must be a lot to dispose of ?
if the problem of the the gutters over flowing is due to the down pipe being blocked will the guttervac suck it out? or do you call someone else in
do you do a visual check with a camera 1st? what do you charge for this?
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When doing gutter cleaning, what do you do with the rubbish because i can imagine with a large property there must be a lot to dispose of ?
if the problem of the the gutters over flowing is due to the down pipe being blocked will the guttervac suck it out? or do you call someone else in
do you do a visual check with a camera 1st? what do you charge for this?
Ok the rubbish if its commercial usually has to be removed from site, so I take it home and put in in my recycling bin ( garden waste) or if its domestic I put it in theirs or on a compost heap if they have one. If there is a load of this stuff you can buy bags from the council for trade waste.
The gutter vac will suck out debris blocking the top part of the pipe but if its blocked further down I use a powerpole pressure washing attachment and give it a good blast which 9 out of 10 times clears it. If i does not I use a drain cleaning attachment and feed it in to the down pipe from the bottom. This never fails!!!!
I only do camera surveys for commercial clients for which I charge £40 per hour. If they need a lot of work doing I deduct this from the cost as I would need to do a survey anyway. If the gutters are clear which they sometimes are I just charge the £40 an hour.
Hope that helps Steve ;D
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Can someone post a direct link to the omnivac as everytime i try to do it through the omnipole site it crashes
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www.omni-guttervac.com
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kev R
what size generator do you use for your system?
can,t remember what you said in the past do you carry all kit in a van or have you got a specially made trailer..cheers
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I have a 5 kva generator. I have it mounted in a trailer as its too heavy to move in and out of a vehicle on my own. Its easier to move the whole trailer.
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Kev R, thanks for your interesting posts, do you have the 220 or 110 version.
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I have the 220v Omnivac. I dont really do any building site work and sometimes I have to work inside courtyards. The generator is too far away. Using the 220V version you can just plug in to the clients supply with out the hassle of moving the generator or lugging a transformer.
We have also decided not to use the Omnivac in a cherry picker as it would be very easy to overload it as the machine fills, especially if the gutters are wet. We have found manual clearing quicker as you can leave the water to drain, not remove it. (Some mewps have a 110v power line running up the boom). If you were a skinny person this would not be an issue but I weigh about 16 stone!!!
Hope that helps ;)
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If you were a skinny person this would not be an issue but I weigh about 16 stone!!!
all muscle though kev!! ;)
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If you were a skinny person this would not be an issue but I weigh about 16 stone!!!
all muscle though kev!! ;)
Love muscle mate...LOL