Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Andy Foster on June 28, 2008, 11:30:27 pm
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Got an email asking for the corner unit below to be cleaned - described as 'undamaged but has children stains'
It is 80 mile round trip for me and I quoted £300 including VAT - would have been an all day job including travel.
Is this too much for this job?
Thoughts please.
Andy
Andy
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2 more pics
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Andy
Are you sure it can be cleaned? Have you inspected/tested? The only reason I ask is because it looks like an aniline or a pull up? Very difficult to remove stains - if not impossible, hope you clarified it with custy.
£300.00 is a good price for the long distance involved, seems about right. If it was local (and pigmented) £200.00 would have been fair too.
Cheers
Kev
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Looks like it needs chucking in a skip, along with the children who messed it up!
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I can see what you mean from the photos.
However, I was told it was a buff coloured suite and not a pull up aniline.
I am glad you think the price was fair, just wanted some reassurance really.
Thanks
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Good price for a clean taking into consideration travelling.
However it looks really trashed, not sure just a clean will bring it up. I'm sure one or more of the experts will steer you in the right direction ;)
All the best,
Jason.
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Andy,
£300 is good money.
Too cheap if they are happy!
Naivety is optimistic!
Experience is pessimistic!
Our hindsight becomes our foresight when customer’s expectation is unrealistic and turns sour.
Need Enlightenment?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System.
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Andy,
£300 is good money.
Too cheap if they are happy!
Naivety is optimistic!
Experience is pessimistic!
Our hindsight becomes our foresight when customer’s expectation is unrealistic and turns sour.
Need Enlightenment?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System.
Thanks Roger... I think!!!
Translation is what I really require. ;D
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Two things to consider BEFORE taking this on, well maybe three.
Customer expectation - they say it's just soiled - they expect it to clean!
Your expectation - ????????????????????????????????
What would you earn if you stayed closer to home ?
Really, it's looks like a potential nightmare especially when you don't know what type of finish you have to deal with
They say Victory Favours The Brave but others say He Who Turns And Walks Away Lives To Fight Another Day
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I can see what you mean from the photos.
However, I was told it was a buff coloured suite and not a pull up aniline.
I am glad you think the price was fair, just wanted some reassurance really.
Thanks
Andy
The only reason I asked is because there is a big nasty spill on the seat cushion and most people would have wiped this away on a normal finished leather. The fact that its still there indicates that the leather is perhaps absorbant.
Let us know how you got on.
Good luck!
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I am no leather expert but imo this looks like analine to me by the way it has soaked up the stains.The problem with these suites is that they will soak up the cleaning product just as fast as you put it on. These stains will be impossible to remove.
You could do an analine re-colour which is a simple procedure just mixing some dye and placing on the suite with a sponge and leaving to soak in, the results using this method can be amazing. I know Judy has posted some before and after pics of this type of job before on the forum.
Mark
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They've come back and said it is too expensive :o so my decision is made for me.
Thanks for the advice though chaps.
Andy
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Photos can be very deceptive but it does from the photos it does look like an aniline style leather.
As has been previously said you should always make your own assessment of what type of leather it is and not rely on what the customer (or anyone else) tells you. Then you can assess the type of results you will get from cleaning.
If this does turn out to be an aniline then the cleaning process may not be enough to give any real results that the customer would be happy with in which case the customer needs to understand this before you do the job. This is tricky when there is distance involved as 80 miles is a long way to go to assess a job which you may not then get.
If it is an aniline the aniline rstoration process however would really bring this suite back to life but would cost a lot more than £300.00
For a pigment suite (if it is) then £300.00 is a good price for the round trip and the clean.
I would ask the customer to send you a sample of the leather and then you can do your tests and assessment before committing yourself to the job.
Hope this helps
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Not typing fast enough!!!!!
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I think you done well not to be there.
You could charge £150 on "cleaner" suites then that much nearer home, do 2 in a day to get the £300 and still watch Wimbledon in the afternoon.
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It does look Aniline and as well as spills there is head grese on 2 cushion areas.
I would agree with Judy :o on pricing, if it was pigmented then 300 quid is good , but if it is Anilne and there fore lots of work and some that may need a second or third trip then I would be quoting 1k and poss more.
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Thanks for that everyone.
As I say, I am only going on the custy's description of the suite which they stated as not being aniline but if I got there and it was, then obviously I would have to change things round with them.
When I received the photos, the first question was regarding absorbency of the leather.
Anyway, it is not a moot point now because they don't want to spend 300 let alone 1k on it so never mind.
Thanks once again.
Andy
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The opinions here are unanimously wise.
But it is always better to be wisely rich than to be wisely poor!
Andy quoted £300 yet customer thinks it is too expensive.
Carlton Care put it wisely and questions “expectation”.
Kev shares his identification experience from pictures (wasting time for on-site identification).
Marks sums up the degree of technical difficulties accurately.
Judy brings out the point of need to educate customer.
For Joe, it good grief not to be there, I share his sentiment too.
Paul is realistic about a minimum of £1000, maybe up to £3000 for me.
Quote Carlton’s “Your expectation - ?? “.
I translated it as “Price equals Service Input”.
The higher the quality of our service the higher is our price.
In leather, cheap can be very expensive!
And expensive service can be very cheap!
Quote Andy “Anyway, it is not a moot point now…”
However!
It is a beginning of a reassessment of this tricky leather cleaning and restoration business.
It may snap all our energy and time for nothing.
The science of leather cleaning is completely thrown out of this forum especially the “pH Value”.
Without a pH value, there is no science in our educating our customer.
How do we explain the chemistry technicality of leather cleaning that brings value to our service?
Without a technical presentation of why certain products in certain sequence of cleaning process is necessary to achieve the desired result that translate to cost, how would the customer understand the need for a higher cost of service.
This customer outright throw out of a £300 “cheap” quote is a classic example of a lack of technical presentation on the principle of leather cleaning.
A very good educational presentation would be able to secure this job for £3000 instead.
If we have equal opportunities and need to sloth for a living than why go “for a lamb instead of a sheep”?
I am here to help.
So that!
Your customer “wins”.
You “win”.
And I “win”.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System.
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Thank you for your lengthy and philosophical response Roger but to be honest I think you are missing the point here.
The customer could go out and buy a new one for not much more than you would expect to charge (if indeed you would charge £3k for this job) so why on Earth would they pay that to have it restored. That is if it is in fact aniline... if it is pigmented as they say then they could buy another one for less than the £1k that has been.
The customer said that they would not be prepared to spend £300 to have it cleaned, so I don't understand how any amount of education would get them to part with 10 times that much, especially considering the above.
I understand and admire your passion for the art of leather restoration and very much aspire to have the depth of knowledge you have on the subject. In the meantime I will resign myself to being a 'poor carpet cleaner' ;).
;D ;D ;D
Andy
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Agreeing with both parties (Andy and Roger) but aimed at Roger, can you put on here a script/conversation/audit/presentation that you have done to get a clean for non expensive leather to a cost conscious customer?
If we start at the bottom end then the wording can be changed to accomodate the top end clientelle.
Shaun
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I started as a poor carpet cleaner from a “third world country” 35 years ago this October.
Now I am living in one of “World’s Best City” of choice since year 2000.
It is time for me to pay back this industry that makes my life envious to friends and relatives.
My smart children think that they are only interested “to build cars but never need to build roads”.
I have seen many carpet cleaners come and go horizontally with no financial progress.
Many newbie comes in and fail, without understanding why?
Some survive from mediocrity, some strive for Excellency.
Everyone has a right to their own choice.
My message is just to inspire, maybe now, maybe years to come.
I rather share my experience with the people of this industry than to safe it for my grave.
UK leather tannery technology is still one of the most advanced in the world.
You may not need someone out of a third world country to tell you so.
I just mirror what great technological knowledge your institution possess.
I only practice what is truth in the leather cleaning and restoration technology from handbook written by your own countryman.
UK has great leather institutions that people from all over the world come to learn and benefit from.
Why it is not translated to the home owners through people like you?
Roger Koh
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I think I posted a few days ago that you (leather specialist) are far advanced than us but we NEED you to help us to understand leather, cleaning, restoration, and people.
You very usefully put a style of quotation on here a month or so ago detailing (like a shopping list) what cleaning and solutions were need to restore a leather suite back to its best, I know use this when I quote and have found it to be very successful as it makes me look more of a specialist and also shows where their money is going to get to the result they want and looking affordable to boot.
I'd like to see some phrases or sentences to aid us in getting the work at the right money, as we get more successful then we get a higher job ticker which allows us to specialise in the most profitable bits of our business.
Shaun
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As I say truth can be very offending sometimes, as we feel uncomfortable!
“Whispering sweet nothing” is sometimes what we like to hear!
What is said about this philosophical approach is first to understand ourselves.
Are we a lump of rock sugar that can break a skull but melts under boiling heat?
Or are we an egg that hardens as the heat goes longer and higher?
When we do not have the attitude or the aptitude leather precision services is definitely an uphill task.
Past the contact to a true “Leather Specialist” who enjoys what they do.
Or invest into such leather safe (pH 3-5) products currently not available in UK directly to them.
Email me if you like to see these products list.
In four words success in leather cleaning and restoration business requires:
1. Personality - Our mental make-up, vision, mission, etc.
2. Know-How - Leather cleaning & restoration technology.
3. Marketing - Includes personal grooming, sales training and sales presentation.
4. Management - For growth.
Can we then continues just be a poor carpet cleaners?
It is the poor attitude that makes many a carpet cleaner poor!
I was there, so I know!
I wish I had a forum like this when I was just like you!
I am only a mirror that can help transform a poor carpet cleaner to a rich leather cleaner.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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I'm sorry Roger but I am out of this 'discussion' :(
I find your flowery words just a little too deep for me and not just a little patronising. I will leave those who enjoy poetry more than I to ponder over the true meanings of your prose.
Andy
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A little too deep for me as well Andy.
but he has such a lovely way with words (not like me - common as muck) ................... and when I ponder on them a little longer .... its really good.
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This customer has just contacted us for a quotation today!
She sent the same pictures and small drawing! ;D
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She's obviously shopping around for a cheaper price whilst not realising exactly what she has and how much these jobs actually cost.
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Go on Ben - frighten her to death - not just with a realistic price but a bit of the technical too.
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Let me know how you get on Ben.
Andy
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Andy,
Will it be possible for you to email her to redirect her enquiry to info@leatherdoctor.org
I will do the selling.
You will do the cleaning for the price you ask for £300.
And we will see her response.
Is she really a price shopper?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System