Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: cleaningmaster on June 27, 2008, 10:05:57 pm
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Hi all
I am interested in moving up to a truckmount from (as well as)a porty.
Can anyone point me in the right direction on which is the best one to buy?
I have been recommended the blueline cobalt and the boxxer 421 , as the first step up from a porty.
Can anyone who has experience with the two stated please give there comments.
Many thanks for your help.
DARYL
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The prochem Blazer is also worth considering. I would consider where you live to the nearest supplier, of these 3 TM's.
i run a cobalt and think its the bees knees,
I also still use a porty for some job as you can not always get a TM to all jobs.
What are your worries?
what would you like to know?
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What's your budget?
Could advise better, Hydramaster are usually better value than Alltec.
Shaun
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Is the Blueline range made by Steamway. I saw on some American board that Steamway are getting out of the Truckmount business. Could have implications for after sales service.
Hydramaster appear to be a well respected outfit, or the prowler might meet your needs.
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blueline is a different manufacturer, alltec stopped doing steamway a good while ago. I think a few other u.s. manufacturers are one the way out too! Not sure if ace have gone too?
All the best
John
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I have had a Boxer 421 since 2006 - well happy with it.
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Here's a thought just to stir the nest...
1. is a truckmount worth the cash?
right before all you TM guys go off on one, here is the thinking behind the comment........
you buy a TM 10k+...ok what is the lifetime of this machine? how much do you have to make back each week to cover the cost of A. Buying it B. running it. C. is it going to get you extra work ?
Now i no all you TM blokes are going to say yeah damm rite dont look back.......
But in the current maket how many of you are in the house by 12.30 watching the news cos your just no busy?.... we all no this maket is so up and down its unreal....yeah theres guys that are making some real good money but i bet for every 1 with a Tm thats making good money theres 2 that are struggling. its the way of the world.
These forums are a great source of information for new starts, damm i wish it was on the go when i started i would have saved 1000s, but do we tell the truth on them hiding behind false names etc etc etc....
anyways I LOVE CARPET CLEANING..........
it sat morning and ive no idea where all this came from at this time of day ...lol.... :D :D :D
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Was use a Hydramaster and consider it to be the best investment we have made in many years, we obviously use a portable when access is a problem. The truckmount does a better job and attracts a lot of attention, thus generating more work, the investment and running costs are justified.
We are very busy at the moment, without the TM I think coping would be difficult.
Regards
S
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James
As Simon Gerrard and a few others have said, truck mounts are in themselves, good marketing tools. I have a rental property to do where the carpets are trashed, and i would think that my portable would not be up to the task. The extra heat, pressure and phenominal suction of the truck mount will trounce a portable on this type of work.
Another fact that i can't get my head around is the high prices that some cc,s charge. With a truck mount, i don't feel embarassed with charging a high premium as as you said, i have spent a lot of money on my equipment. I still use my portable when i have to, but it is a hassle.
As far as life expectancy is concerned, if serviced properly, there is no reason that they could not last ten or more years, with the odd outlay here and there to replace any part that goes wrong. In three years, the only thing to have gone wrong on mine is the fuel pump (£60 to sway, a car one) and that is it.
With all the second hand tm,s coming onto the market, they are affordable. I have seen vans on the road fitted with tm,s that are around fifteen years of age and still going strong.
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James
I have a rental property to do where the carpets are trashed, and i would think that my portable would not be up to the task. The extra heat, pressure and phenominal suction of the truck mount will trounce a portable on this type of work.
Now thats set the cat amonst the the birds eh ........Id never say that cos theres nothing that i havent and cant clean with a porty......... ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)
But i no what your saying its fun days sat or i mean theres no fotty on lol....
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James
Id never say that cos theres nothing that i havent and cant clean with a porty......... ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)
That's EXACTLY what I used to say,till I got a Truckmount that is. Then I realised how wrong I had been for 22 years !.
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The fact is that with even an entry level TM you can do tweice as much in a day as a top range porty. If you are busy and have a constant flow of jobs, then you couldnt do better than get a TM, however you are right its no good if its in the van on the drive at home not earning, except that what was once a full days work, now is only a half days work and plenty of time left to do that marketing that you couldnt do when earning the same money with a porty, because it was taking you all day.
Dave.
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Don't us Tmers get fed up with all the rubbish printed by porty guys.
Answer:- too bloody right.
if you want advice on plumbling ask a plumber, if you want advice on electrics, ask an electrican,
if you want advice on TM's (as did cleaningmaster), ask a TM owner. Does James123 own a Tm
Answer: No
So lets back to the orgianl question asked by cleaningmaster who is looking for advice on TM's not James123, who does not own one, and therefore can not give a professional opinion about the pros and cons of a TM.
Had a TM for 8 years, now on my 2nd TM, why did I not go back to using a porty 100%?
Answer: ask a TMer
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Karl
James's was a reasonable point, this is a forum after all and topics do go off at various tangents, I thought there were some good answers.
Lets keep it friendly.
Cheers
Doug
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Daryl
Sorry cant help but my understand both good machines Karl has a point where you live, so if you live up top north I would look a the prowler
James
Yes worth every penny
Yes there are lean times that where the lm system is handy
Yes they brake down, not that often in may case
There are a few jobs I do where porty is useless or unworkable.
Karl
They can pop all they like
Len
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Karl / shaun
I was using a TM with the company i worked for , they had one
of the old Alltech ones and it was a real pig....In the first 12 mths it was off the road for 9 mths.
The NCCA recommended the new Blue line, and i have heard off other forums
and this one that the 421 is a good m/c.
Thanks to all for the comments as i have used one ( for 3 yrs) i know that they cant do all jobs, and because of the current climate i know its a risk but im in this for the long haul and i want to make my business a success.
Thats why im asking for advice its a lot of money, to make a mistake.
James
a porty can do more than a TM, i know that! but after using one you really do need one to expand your business. Thats my opinion any way
Many thanks
Daryl
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Karl, how do you no what i clean with ????
My point was only that this forum is great and the advise we all give and get is great, my point is there to read......sorry if it wound you up...
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Len/karl
Sorry forgot to add that where i get my chemicals from, they are distributers for Alltech and one of the lads is going on a course(from alltech) as they can service there m/c`s inc Truckmounts.
would have to ask Hydramaster who, if anyone, would look after my m/c,
because thats important.
Regards
Daryl
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Anyone with a portable kick themselves when someone rings offering big bucks and they want x000 ft cleaned, dry and open for business and you just have to turn it down or pass it on cos you know it's physically impossible to do with a portable in the time frame?
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If you only have a portable why not talk to someone with a TM. Get a price from them then add a bit on top. At least you can get a chance at the job and earn a bit for yoursellf,
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Of all the Truckmounts in the UK i would get either a HydraMaster or Prochem only. I live in the Birmingham area. Prochem are about 145 miles from me and HydraMaster are about 260 miles away. Although Prochem are 115 miles closer id go for a HydraMaster however, if i lived within 50 miles of Prochem id buy a Prochem unit.
Richie.
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Truckmounting is a whole different ball-game from using a portable. If you don't have the volume of business (good times or tough times) & you worry about the initial investment, then I guess it's best to just stay with the portable.
Truckmounts do save a hell of a lot of time in cleaning especially if you also clean large areas. Do they clean better? I reckon so. But would not argue with a porty user that he/her could achieve the same result even if it took somewhat longer.
If you are in the business for the long haul, then getting into truckmounting is a no brainer
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Doug,
cleaningmaster asked about TM's, not whether it was a good idea to buy one in this climate, so I thought James123 comment was a watse of time, and just being negativbe to TM's
James123
How do I know what yoiu clean with?
Cos if you had a TM you would never have made that comment. A TM as mentioned loads of times is a different ball game to portys.
back to the thread.
There is not a huge difference between the cobalt, boxxer and blazer, so I would go with the one that gives good service and is close to you.
From my experience Alltec offer great service, I also know that hydramaster offer a superb service, I have not had any dealing with prochem so can not comment on them. So its your choice.
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Mike When i get calls to do x00000s of Sq mtrs.. i do it LM... as i do with all our maintanence plans ;D ;D ;D
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James,
That's fair enough for most commercial, but if it's a bowling or bingo hall type place with wool pile carpets I wouldn't feel happy using LM.
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Cheers Mike never thought of bowling & bingo halls as a target, as I never have frequent them I would make sure I be the last one to quote ;)
Daryl
Ncca recommended?? Thought they only recommended woolsafe products if it wool 8)
I would also look into servicing costs under warranty a must, ;) out of can be an open cheque book/debit card. 8)
Len
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Len
You want to get out more. ;D
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Don't be swayed by the fact that the dealer is just round the corner from you,more important is they keep stocks of parts and have knowlegable service staff. I have been dealing with Hydramaster for some years now (300 miles from me) and always recieve parts the next day, when required, and will talk you through DIY repairs overe the phone. They also have a service centre in Oxford , for jobs you can't do youself, if it's nearer to you.
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Personally the only TMs that I would consider that are available in the UK would be from Alltec or Hydramaster. Thery are without doubt streets ahead of the rest in terms of product and after sales service. Also if money was tight, but I wanted to upgrade from a porty, then I would consider the Prowler.
Dave.
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LEN
it was Paul pierce that said the Blueline were good m/c`s, what`s Woolsafe got to do with it ???
Karl
you asked what were my worries?
My worry is that with the Alltech i worked with in the past,it kept running out of water, i had to work my b****ks off just to do a furnished 3 bed house!!!
I only found out , about 2mths ago, that it had something to do with the cold water being dumped into the waste tank, is this true??
I have read on Alltech`s blurb that they have stopped this, but Hydramaster dont say anything. Its a question i will have to ask.
I think i will go on there "Dirty weekend" to put my questions, and get a feel of the company.
Thats what i like about this forum, that people are willing to give there OWN opinion not just be biased towards one company.
Regards
Daryl
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I wish I had one for a Job i have on Tuesday, really starting to feel the need for it now.
Getting much bigger domestic jobs from the internet than ever before and need to make the jump, but I am just concerned about spending so much money out in the current market, Only been going five years and am only just starting to make the impact on the markets I really want.
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Have you considered leasing one Neil ?
Steve
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LEN
it was Paul pierce that said the Blueline were good m/c`s, what`s Woolsafe got to do with it ???
Karl
you asked what were my worries?
My worry is that with the Alltech i worked with in the past,it kept running out of water, i had to work my b****ks off just to do a furnished 3 bed house!!!
I only found out , about 2mths ago, that it had something to do with the cold water being dumped into the waste tank, is this true??
I have read on Alltech`s blurb that they have stopped this, but Hydramaster dont say anything. Its a question i will have to ask.
I think i will go on there "Dirty weekend" to put my questions, and get a feel of the company.
Thats what i like about this forum, that people are willing to give there OWN opinion not just be biased towards one company.
Regards
Daryl
thats a great idear going on there open day, a must if anybody who really wants to find out about truckmounts weather it be h.masters or not , there will be people there that have been truckmounting from weeks to years and i mean many years, so you will get views from the people that know and not people that think they know
i know that simon g. and glynn w are going along with stev knight off here and im sure there will be a few others so keep an eye out for them and dont be frighten to stop them and spk to them ! they dont bite much and i guess the best place to see them will be at the bar
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Mike
Tell me about it, keep them coming I like a good wink (in the bag). ;)
Daryl
You said NCCA unbiased unless wool, so name-dropping is a bit unfair :)
Mine dumps cant comment on others but I’ve never run out of water nearly but replenished. ;D
Len
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I have no problem with my Blazer plus dumping excess amounts of water. Anyway, for the larger jobs simply connect the machine to a mains water supply for continued cleaning. Of course the machine will stop when the wast tank fills, but simply fit an auto waste pump out then problem solved.
As the cost of fuel has been rising lately, i have been running it on a lower throttle setting which is saving me money without any loss of heat or suction ability. I would never go back now. I still think that they are a good investment and will help your marketing a lot. I can service it within an hour or so as once you have done it a few times it gets easier.
Dave
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Len
when did i say NCCA un biased about wool ???
Sorry i dont understand ???
Daryl
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Neil,
i would wait and see how this year pans out, and if the credit crunch does not affect you, then go for an upgrade,
CM.
Some TM's are set up to dump water into the waste tank, my mate has a blazer and he had his dumping moved from the waste tank to the clean tank, only problem is when dumping hot water back into the clean tank it can cause the machine to over heat.
the alltec cobats dumps back into the header tank if you water gets too hot, this makes it easier for the water to heat up. Personally its a better idea as it means you get very hot water if required.
Open day at HM are supposed to be excellent. Alltec also have theirs too. I would go to both and make your pick. I know I said the blazer was an option, but when it comes to service both Alltec and HM beat prochem on service.
And secondly if you are having a TM, consider a large van, and get LPG conversion. It will cost more for the TM, but the fuel savings is worth make. Make sure you have a LPG garage near you.
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The Alltec Blueline series doesn't dump water into the waste tank but if you were getting that kind of dumping that you stated it sounds like the electronic dump valve is sticking or faulty.
I think the water cooled Hydramaster machines don't dump now but not entirely sure but the HM machines do retain heat longer and get hotter.
I am just getting a new Boxxer 427 after having a Boxxer 421 and I'm a picky customer so they must have impressed me.
Shaun
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Some TM's are set up to dump water into the waste tank, my mate has a blazer and he had his dumping moved from the waste tank to the clean tank, only problem is when dumping hot water back into the clean tank it can cause the machine to over heat.
the alltec cobats dumps back into the header tank if you water gets too hot, this makes it easier for the water to heat up. Personally its a better idea as it means you get very hot water if required.
Karl. Whats the difference between dumping to the clean tank and dumping to the header tank.
On my machine I am sure the clean tank is feeding the header tank.
So if hot water dumped to the clean tank may cause overheating, wont it be the same dumping to the header tank.
Chemspec Avenger 450 by the way
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Hi Joe,
If it's dumping to the water tank it will be mixing with cooler water so reducing the temperature,but if to the header tank that water is already hot so higher temperature.
all the best
John
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Can see that John BUT
Karl said "only problem is when dumping hot water back into the clean tank it can cause the machine to over heat."
If you dump in the header thank, wont the same overheating apply but only quicker as the header tank is smaller so less cold to cool it.
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You are right Joe,
problems with over heating are usually with upholstery cleaning, not carpet cleaning. The hotter the water for carpets the easier the job, so its better to dump back to the header than the clean tank. Dumping to the waste tank is a rubbish.
But when it comes to cleaning upholstery you may over heat. I have not had this problem yet, but then I have not cleaned upholstery in the summer months as purcahsed machine last November.
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I have set my truckmount to dump on reaching temp into either the dirty tank, or if I need to conserve the the water I switch it over to the clean tank until it.
Great in the winter as the warm clean water tank act as a heater inside the van.
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I feel the one thing we had a problem with with the T/M is access> were is the bulk of your work. If in town or flats then access is always a problem and a porty would be best. Having said that my operator and me would not be without or 421.
The only other problems is refilling on a long day out and the getting rid of the dirty water? I would get a T/M keep the porty but check out each job or ask if parking is avalible
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I feel the one thing we had a problem with with the T/M is access> were is the bulk of your work. If in town or flats then access is always a problem and a porty would be best. Having said that my operator and me would not be without or 421.
The only other problems is refilling on a long day out and the getting rid of the dirty water? I would get a T/M keep the porty but check out each job or ask if parking is avalible
we have no probs there with water as we will have 680 lts in the back i must for long days ;D
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Karl and others
Many Thanks for all the replies.
I am booking my "Dirty weekend" with HM in the morning and also getting in touch with A.T.
On the whole HM seem to be more on the ball, more friendly etc i just hope theyre not to pushy.
I also will have to see how the next few months pan out, but some time or other
i will have to take the plunge.
May see one or two of you there.
DARYL
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Helped out today on a TM job, well stood around watching alot ::) . 2000sqft in under 4hours and pretty much dry on leaving. Client was delighted and more work was suddenly in the pipeline.
Takes a bit of getting used to but I can see myself doing it (which is half the battle)
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Joe,
Regarding the Blueline range dumping into the Water Box (Header tank). The water wll only get excessively hot if the tool is not triggered for a long time. The word "Dump" in this case is wrong, as when the water reaches a certain high temp a recirculation system is activated taking the hot water through the Water Box, thus cooling it. As the tool trigger is operated more fresh cold water enters the Water Box cooling it further until the recirculating system closes down.
Dave.
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Mike
Can you explain how it was done in this time
as i have used one in the past , i would like to know how, or if, it differs.
How experienced was the owner of the TM???
Many Thanks
Daryl
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Well explained Dave.
and I think thats the system I have on my machine too.
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Hi Joe,
I just had a look at an old Chemspec catologue with the avenger in it and it does say it has a patented recirculation system for the water heating.
all the best
John
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I believe that what Mike above experienced today is where truckmounts really come into their own. A t/m could achieve 2 of those jobs in a day & the rewards would be accordingly. With a portable although the final quality may be as good, I can't see that being achieved
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Elliot you are spot on.
I pre spray and spot, he wands. To be fair there was some setup time and he had the guys there moving furniture. The heat just seem to melt away black marks, just some stubborn gum to contend with.
It was an old wool carpet in strips and sewn, not been cleaned for 4 years.
He's a fairly experienced Truckmounter, bit scruffy though.
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I thought I was going to have a nice easy day today as one of my vans had gone in for a service so didn't book much in........then a local Indian restaurant phoned in panic, someone had gone to clean the carpets with a portable but had to admit defeat when they couldn't get it clean on the area they tested, and they had all the furniture outside, we got there at 12.30 and finished at 3.00, left 3 turbo dryers there until 5.30 collected them had a £20 tip and a free meal for saturday night for me and the mr's........so we are all happy! ;D
All the best
John
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That would curry favour then. ;D
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Sure did Mike! ;D
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Dave lee explaining the 'dumping' water is spot on, his better at words than me.
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I believe that what Mike above experienced today is where truckmounts really come into their own. A t/m could achieve 2 of those jobs in a day & the rewards would be accordingly. With a portable although the final quality may be as good, I can't see that being achieved
Yes,
Didn't rate his pre-vac euipment though ;D
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Karl and others
Many Thanks for all the replies.
I am booking my "Dirty weekend" with HM in the morning and also getting in touch with A.T.
On the whole HM seem to be more on the ball, more friendly etc i just hope theyre not to pushy.
I also will have to see how the next few months pan out, but some time or other
i will have to take the plunge.
May see one or two of you there.
DARYL
I bought my tm from Hydramaster. They are very friendly and helpful and definatley not pushy. It took me 3 months to decide what one I wanted. I will be there at the "dirty weekend" as I have been for the last 2. Touch base if you want, i will have my TM there.
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Mike, scruffy?? That was a new pair of shorts I'll have you know.
Anyway, spoke with the assistant manager and the "buyer" and it looks like you have the rest of the Hotel to do Mike.
Funny too that he asked where the filtration soil mark had gone!!!!!
Best, Dave.
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Gerry
Yes hope to see you.
By the way, what model did you get?
Daryl
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Daryl
Boxer 421. Look forward to meeting you
Gerry
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Dave
Brilliant Dave. So the truckmount IS the ultimate marketing tool. ;D
Never seen a draftmark that bad come out with wand water, although it was travelling fast and very hot. ;)
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it wasnt daves truck mount that got the extra work it was his legs ;D ;D
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Susan
You sexist pig ::) ;D