Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Alistair@AWC on June 10, 2008, 07:47:50 pm
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Is there any reason why we arent using hoseless poles?
You can buy telescopic thru flow poles from B&Q, Halfords and the like for £10-£20 to use around the home
But we havent got any Window Cleaning Pole Producers making them, instead we are using 5mm clear hose which splits, kinks and get caught on everything with in my case a gas tap cable tied to the side of my pole acting as a flow valve instead of a dedicated flow controller as part of the pole and I think its a pretty poor solution to the problem.
I would be interested in the views of any of the suppliers who visit CIU as well as you guys.
Al
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alistair,
i like the look of that nozzle, the 3 way one where can i get one
thanks
bill
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Long reach poles like Facelift use the butt to raise the extende pole, so fitting a tap connection at the base is impractical for say 25ft plus.
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Bill,
Its on
ht tp://www.martincoxchamois.com/html/flow_through_car_wash_brushes.html
(remember to close the gap on the t's in http)
but unfortunately I doubt you can buy it as a stand alone it's attached to this pole
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Long reach poles like Facelift use the butt to raise the extende pole, so fitting a tap connection at the base is impractical for say 25ft plus.
What????????????
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i cannot get that link to work alistair, do you have a website please
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This is the link to it ;)
www.martincoxchamois.com/html/flow_through_car_wash_brushes.html (http://www.martincoxchamois.com/html/flow_through_car_wash_brushes.html)
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thanks windowwashers,
the reason i ask is we use the gas valve as an on off valve and we think they work really well, but, it would be nice to go from a low flow( when washing the window) to a slightly higher flow(when rinsing) without having to adjust the lever on the valve, the idea of low medium or high at the press of a button is great, saving both time and water
bill
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We have looked at the hoseless pole idea but the two main methods they use would preclude it from being used with serious length poles. The first method is water flowing through the whole of the pole body. On an 8ft pole, this really doesn't make much difference for weight but as soon as you went any higher it would add so much weight to the pole, they would become unusable.
The other method is a self-retracting coil hose inside the pole. The problem with this is that there is a limit to how much hose you can retract back to its closed position. It works fine on a two section telescopic pole but as soon as you have a longer pole with more sections, there would be no room for the hose inside.
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Thanks for the reply Alex
I can see where you coming from with that!
Ive got an idea for that although trying to get it across to you on here could be quite difficult - but here goes ;D
Its basically another telescopic pole within the pole, I suppose almost like a telescopic aerial on a radio!
Please tell me you now have a picture in your minds eye ;D
Regards
Alistair
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Thanks for the reply Alex
I can see where you coming from with that!
Ive got an idea for that although trying to get it across to you on here could be quite difficult - but here goes ;D
Its basically another telescopic pole within the pole, I suppose almost like a telescopic aerial on a radio!
Please tell me you now have a picture in your minds eye ;D
Regards
Alistair
How would you stop the sections from leaking because you'd need seals. Then how would you replace the seals?
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at last after many years folk are starting to realize, the hosless pole, iv been sitting on the fully working prototype for years yet no manufacturer has taken me up, i showed videos the lot, been there done it, seems pointless, it took me 7 years to complete, so am looking for some company to take me up on it,
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If it's that good, you have to ask yourself why no supplier is helping you out.
Or ask yourself the question, is it good at all. ??? (no dig)
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at last after many years folk are starting to realize, the hosless pole, iv been sitting on the fully working prototype for years yet no manufacturer has taken me up, i showed videos the lot, been there done it, seems pointless, it took me 7 years to complete, so am looking for some company to take me up on it,
Joe, why don't you fund it yourself? If you believe in what you've designed get someone to manufacture a prototype. It wouldn't be that expensive
Arthur
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Jouk
I knew one of our resident DIYers had mentioned this before and it was you!
So you have a working prototype that combats the issues Alex raised ie weight and length?
Do you have the links to the videos youve made
Regards
Al
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Thanks for the reply Alex
I can see where you coming from with that!
Ive got an idea for that although trying to get it across to you on here could be quite difficult - but here goes ;D
Its basically another telescopic pole within the pole, I suppose almost like a telescopic aerial on a radio!
Please tell me you now have a picture in your minds eye ;D
Regards
Alistair
How would you stop the sections from leaking because you'd need seals. Then how would you replace the seals?
Wayne I came up with the idea whilst reading Alex's post, what you have mentioned are the finer details I came up with the basic solution to the points Alex raised. If I was prepared to solve the details I wouldnt have posted on here for everyone and his dog to see I would have made and patented it!
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tim i do have the working prototype, i have even gone beyond that, i am so far ahead of this game you would not believe me, i will show the video, bt do remember this is an old version, i am now way ahead of this now,
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at last after many years folk are starting to realize, the hosless pole, iv been sitting on the fully working prototype for years yet no manufacturer has taken me up, i showed videos the lot, been there done it, seems pointless, it took me 7 years to complete, so am looking for some company to take me up on it,
How long is this pole you have made cos for it to be a hit it would need to be around 25ft and closed length of around 5ft? Although having the same spec as a 17ft xtel would be good for most windows.
Could you afford to make up half a dozen and give them out as prototypes for feedback to a few users around the country? Look at the success of the slx. It was sold before it was for sale on the strength of the spec and advance titbits of information.
Could you do the same?
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Thanks for the reply Alex
I can see where you coming from with that!
Ive got an idea for that although trying to get it across to you on here could be quite difficult - but here goes ;D
Its basically another telescopic pole within the pole, I suppose almost like a telescopic aerial on a radio!
Please tell me you now have a picture in your minds eye ;D
Regards
Alistair
How would you stop the sections from leaking because you'd need seals. Then how would you replace the seals?
Wayne I came up with the idea whilst reading Alex's post, what you have mentioned are the finer details I came up with the basic solution to the points Alex raised. If I was prepared to solve the details I wouldnt have posted on here for everyone and his dog to see I would have made and patented it!
alistair i have already tried what you suggested, there was to many problems, cost me a fortune to find that out, my idea is completly leak proof,
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Jo
If you act on Marks suggestion I do expect to be one of the 6 seeing as I revived your idea ;D ;D ;D
Al
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Jo
How much could you produce these for?
And what is your donor pole?
Al
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at last after many years folk are starting to realize, the hosless pole, iv been sitting on the fully working prototype for years yet no manufacturer has taken me up, i showed videos the lot, been there done it, seems pointless, it took me 7 years to complete, so am looking for some company to take me up on it,
How long is this pole you have made cos for it to be a hit it would need to be around 25ft and closed length of around 5ft? Although having the same spec as a 17ft xtel would be good for most windows.
believe me am working on it, i can make them by the dozens but i would rather them made in the thousands to get some good percentage back on what i spent on developing it,
Could you afford to make up half a dozen and give them out as prototypes for feedback to a few users around the country? Look at the success of the slx. It was sold before it was for sale on the strength of the spec and advance titbits of information.
Could you do the same?
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it is a kit i developed to fit into any existing pole, its that simple, there is no weight to it, believe it or not, the reason i am not giving to much away is i have come up with a pole that can be use portable on at least 4 large windows using the same idea, which means in the domestic market it will be revolusionary, making more money than wfp could ever make, although it has markets in many situations,
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as a surprise keep your eyes open, i am hopfully this week going to reveal a revolusionary new motrorized wfp cleaning brush, i am going to show everyone how i made it, ;D
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sorry i have tried every way to show the video, but the forum wont let it work :'(
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This inner tube kit you've developed, do you have the necessary protection to be able to sell it?
If so much would it be? I know you want it to be marketted on a larger scale but what better way to get the suppliers attention than getting WCers on here raving about it!
Al
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sorry i have tried every way to show the video, but the forum wont let it work :'(
Put it on photobucket and post the link
Arthur
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When you post the link remove the http :// bit. :)
(Forum weirdness, not your fault)
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sorry i have tried every way to show the video, but the forum wont let it work :'(
where is it jo, on youtube?
If so what is the title?
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alistair, iv been there done it years ago on here, trying to grab suppliers attention, in the background i continue to develop the ideas, but like everyone else i have to work most days, i would love to see this on the market, no more tangled hoses, built in flow control, i use this pole regular, and i have had no faults with it,
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still trying, removed the http still not allowing it to happen
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Sorry Jo
What Im trying to get at is I want one, how much would it cost to get my hands on one?
Al
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try this, put the h closer to the ttp then put in top browser to view
h ttp://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/?action=view¤t=7c4a370c.flv
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The type of hose suitable for such a pole already exists - it's used on vacuum cleaners.
The challenge would be to make it tough enough at a 5 or 6 mm bore and with an extension factor of five or more.
I'm pretty sure that it could be done with modern materials.
Now, if the military needed it ...
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it does exist, i am the only one who has developed it, ;D
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jo if you put it on youtube it will be possible to link it from here.
That photobucket site doesn't use www
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also, in the vid there was a hose and water supply to it. Am i missing something cos i thought it would be a hoseless pole?
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use this on your search browser , but put the h thats sepetaed closer on the link, its just this forum dont allow http
h ttp://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/?action=view¤t=7c4a370c.flv
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also, in the vid there was a hose and water supply to it. Am i missing something cos i thought it would be a hoseless pole?
mark the pole its self is hosless, it has a trigger built in, also when you deract it there is no hose to get tangled, obviously you need to put a water connection to it, like any other pole,
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Sorry Jo
What Im trying to get at is I want one, how much would it cost to get my hands on one?
Al
Jo are you avoiding my question? ;)
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sorry alistair, i cant put a price on it yet, as a supplier may want to sell it complete with pole, another may sell as a kit, but the easier is fited with the pole, less problems, if i was the supplier i would sell it with the pole ready to use,less complications
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Joe, are you going to have these manufactured and sell them to suppliers?
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well its what i am hoping for art, its a very cheap thing to make even if it makes wfp 40% easier, its a step forward, its not all about pole lightness, its about using with ease to, combine both and you have the god of all poles, ;D
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well its what i am hoping for art, its a very cheap thing to make even if it makes wfp 40% easier, its a step forward, its not all about pole lightness, its about using with ease to, combine both and you have the god of all poles, ;D
Well Joe, imo you'll need to bite the bullet and get them out there for trials.
Get the idea protected before someone nicks it and uses it.
Speculate to accumulate.
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Jo
Obviously if it does what its supposed to the market fitted into new poles will be huge but I think the retro fit market will be the one that makes this product take off.
If the inner tube is market ready instead of waiting on a supplier to come along I think you should let a few of us get our hands on one to help create a buzz
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if i get no offers from any companys soon, i will produce 100 or so, then go from there, but thats a last resort, i have to make a living like eveyone else, so all i can do is advertise now and again to suppliers to remind them, like this topic ;D
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jo have you got a patent or some protection in mind?
I must admit i was sitting here wondering what the advantage of the pole was if it needed a hose anyway. But it has clicked that it is one of those little things that makes life easier and would be worth getting.
I'm not recommending myself but i still think you should dish a few prototypes out to like minded people like the 2 jeffs etc. Oh yeah and alistair ;D, to get some feedback that will filter through the forums.
How many people have bought things like a pole tidy from purefreedom? There is a market out there.
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use this on your search browser , but put the h thats sepetaed closer on the link, its just this forum dont allow http
h ttp://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/?action=view¤t=7c4a370c.flv
Have to say I am very impressed with that Joe here is the link for it:
s184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/?action=view¤t=7c4a370c.flv (http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/?action=view¤t=7c4a370c.flv)
Ian
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i have just bought a pro 10 internal pole and the hose on this is very thin and curls around the outside of the pole, if this was put on the internal of the pole it could be extended without any extra length of hose needing to come out of bottom of pole.
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I like the idea of this pole hose, but I wonder how long it would last.
The folds on a concertina (I'm guessing that's how it works, ???) will only fold and unfold a finite amount of times before splitting. (Fatigue)
If this is the case, probably good for 'domestic' or 'diy' grade meant for occasional use.
How long have you been using this and how intensively?
J
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I like the idea of this pole hose, but I wonder how long it would last.
The folds on a concertina (I'm guessing that's how it works, ???) will only fold and unfold a finite amount of times before splitting. (Fatigue)
If this is the case, probably good for 'domestic' or 'diy' grade meant for occasional use.
How long have you been using this and how intensively?
J
i have only just bought the pro 10 pole with "concertina fold" hose on the outside so dont know how long it will last but it does look quite strong , if it does last i will try fitting some inside a pople and see how it works.
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Joe i remember when you first started telling us about this pole a few years ago then nothing up until now. I think you may be waiting for someone to come along and do everything for you and give you money, i don't think this is going to happen. Also as regards to getting a patent i believe it costs around £20,000 but the rewards could be higher, you will know more about that side of things. Why don't you produce the kits for converting poles and ready converted poles and start selling them yourself. The more you do yourself and the less outside help you get the more you will get out of it.
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What is the point of a hoseless pole,a pole with normal hose or mini-microbore at the base of it would be heavier and more awkard to use.What`s wrong with a length of 5mm pole hose running through the pole it weighs nothing,if they brought 1 out i wouldn`t even look at it.
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What is the point of a hoseless pole,a pole with normal hose or mini-microbore at the base of it would be heavier and more awkard to use.What`s wrong with a length of 5mm pole hose running through the pole it weighs nothing,if they brought 1 out i wouldn`t even look at it.
Good point about the weight of the hose attached to the pole.
I haven't had a problem with the hose running through the pole, only had a problem with the tap positioning. At the bottom of pole is ideal, but with normal hose, you have to have a massive loop to allow for extension, which I don't like.
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nwh, i bet you would buy one, ;D ok to keep a long story short, i first invented this intensionaly for wfp cleaning, but on the way, i discovered this is bigger than wfp, domestic sales would rocket, theres a missing part of the pole invention, whick makes the pole portable similar to a backpack, no batterys no hand pumping, this makes the invention bigger than wfp sales, so if i brought this out, every company will produce them, and i will lose out, only one person has seen the video of the full prototype was jeff brown, as i trust him 100% and even jeff saw the potential of this invention straight away,
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the manufacturer can postion the trigger any where they like on the pole ;D
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nwh, i bet you would buy one, ;D ok to keep a long story short, i first invented this intensionaly for wfp cleaning, but on the way, i discovered this is bigger than wfp, domestic sales would rocket, theres a missing part of the pole invention, whick makes the pole portable similar to a backpack, no batterys no hand pumping, this makes the invention bigger than wfp sales, so if i brought this out, every company will produce them, and i will lose out, only one person has seen the video of the full prototype was jeff brown, as i trust him 100% and even jeff saw the potential of this invention straight away,
I`ve seen the breif video of the pole about a year ago i think it was,if your talking about having enough water just to do a couple of windows i still wouldn`t buy 1.Fair play to you for inventing it but i still don`t think i would buy it,it`s like the backpack it only interests a few WC`s compared to the market as a whole.Some might buy it to say they have it but as for daily use i`m not convinced.
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i use it even to this day, 6 months ago i started the field testing, still no problems yet, its far supperior to any telescopic pole i have ever used, of course it may not suit everyones cup of tea, but this i know for sure, this pole will take up a lot of the telescopic pole market, as it has at least 8 or more domestic funtions, believe it or not the americans seem to be more interested in the pole than the uk, unger is one of them, ;D
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Not being funny Jouk but look at some of ungers WFP stuff. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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i know, thats why they are interested in my idea as it is telescipic, and not screw on,
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Joe,you say it might not suit “ Everyones cup of tea”.
Why is that in your view? Could you elaborate,thanks
Lewis Doubtfire Gleem Clean ( The Blade Runner )
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personaly lewis, i think anyone would get on with this pole improvment, saves hunting for pole flows, plus saves more water as it is intant release, and stop, i just have to be relistic, when i say may not everyones cup of tea, just dont want to come across big headed, wonder what reaction am going to get when i reveal the rotary scrubber this week ::) ultra light, powerful, change all brushes in seconds, lasts all day on a battery, this one i will show how i did it, see i dont keep everything to myself ;D
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You have got me thinking now Jo. Many years ago I had a spool of stainless spring steel wire, this stuff was only about half MM diameter. If you were to tread a length of this through an Algarde hose, you could coil the hose up like a spring and insert it inside the pole, there would still be sufficient space for the water to pass through.
Something on the lines of stretch vacuum cleaner pipe but on a smaller scale, this would allow you to raise and drop the pole and keep your trigger in the same place.
I wish I still had some of that wire, I'll have to Google for it.
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dai, that was one of my first ideas, there was to many problems with it,
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just a sneak preview of what is comming next, the window cleaning rotary brush, will show how its all done, even a video of it in action, i really do believe this is the future,
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here is the brush, i adapted to fit the rotary machine and non scratch window scourer
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joe i dont understand how is your pole different from the second reply you got
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if you mean dai last post, all i can say is coiled is not involved in my invention,
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if you mean dai last post, all i can say is coiled is not involved in my invention,
sorry i mean the initial post by alastair
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Is that rotary brush a flocked one-it's looks like it is. Why don't you use a mono filament rotary brush, there are some about. :)
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Is that rotary brush a flocked one-it's looks like it is. Why don't you use a mono filament rotary brush, there are some about. :)
yes i will look into that, these brushes dont come with this machine, i had to source it from elswhere,
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if you mean dai last post, all i can say is coiled is not involved in my invention,
sorry i mean the initial post by alastair
sorry cant see it, can you put the quote up for me thanks
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mark, i am now at a working height of 21ft, their is no weight added to the pole, as it weighs virtualy like a feather ;D
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See below for hopeless poles.