Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Andy Hogarth on June 06, 2008, 02:52:36 pm
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The time has now come to seriously try and take my business to another level, I want to move into more commercial work and preferably ones that have regular cleans so I'm not just relying on getting in domestic calls.
My questions to you guys are who should I spend most of my time trying to get, what businesses are good for regular work???
I'm going to spend more days going round businesses with a portfolio and asking to speak to managers/facilities management etc.
What hooks are good to use to get commercial work or just to get that foot in the door??
I have never done anything like this before so I'm looking for ANY advice whatsoever when it comes to dealing with managers/companies etc.
Any tips as to what armouries I should have in my portfolio??
Any tips whatsoever in fact ;D
Cheers all
Andy
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Andy,
Are you based in York, there must be hundreds of hotels and guest houses. If you can get the Hotel work and get yourself a decent maintainance plan in place you should be ok. Make sure you have at least £2M liability insurance in place and you can supply risk assessments if required. just beware some of these contracts can be like getting blood from a stone when it comes to payday.
Mark
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Thanks Mark, what type of maintenance plan would you recommend for hotels/guest house
I only have 1 mill on my insurance, I'll look into this one
Cheers
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Andy
Your doing what i did a few years ago. The mistake i made was not making sure that my equipment was up to the job. I had a single vac prochem unit that was ok for domestics but totally rubbish for commercial jobs which lost me everything i gained so if i were you i'd make sure you have the proper gear first and then go out an get the work. commercial jobs are a whole new world with tight deadlines and high expecations, tread carefully.
Tom
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are you not getting the amount of domestic customers you need to be successful?
I speak to a lot of carpet cleaners who are struggling and aren't getting enough work in, so they think to themselves I'll try and get into commercial cleaning, that's where the big money is
I thought the exact same thing myself and did tons of marketing, which was successful and I did get a lot of commercial work but after a while I realised if I put the same amount effort into my domestic side I would have made more money and it would have been less stressful.
commercial can be profitable but its not the nirvana some think.
mike
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I used to do quite a bit of commercial but have let most of it go because a: I am trying to slow down and more importantly b: the best customer is the one who PAYS ON TIME. Domestics pay on completion so helping cashflow, if your commercials do not pay at a reasonable timescale you are funding their business not yours.
If they do not pay -dump them.
I am still putting my prices up due to rising caosts- work out your fuel cost- it may surprise you- 20 p per mile for my van alne.
Trevor
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Mike
How long have you been a moderator?
Len
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Mike makes the perfect point and mirrors exactly what happened to me. I thought that commercials would be a pot of gold but turned out to be a headache that i was well rid of in the end. inow do three or four jobs a day domestics and make good money.
Tom
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it depends on the commercial jobs you target
most i find are price shoppers and really crappey jobs but the more up market ones do seem to care about the quality and service
i dont do a lot but the ones i've got are very good
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Commercial really is too broad a term. My idea of commercial is the odd shop, sugery, or care home. ;D
Whilst I think what Mike is saying is true, people find their own niche that suites their personality and abilities. You don't have to drop yourself in at the deep end with large buildings requiring contracts, hired help, muliple decision makers etc.
On the other hand I met a relative of mine last week who, let's just say isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and has had a few run ins with the Bizzies in his teens, he's now 22. He owns a van and a rotary and has a number of contracts just to clean office space.
He is absolutely coining it in. And I'm thinking well it can't be that hard.
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are you not getting the amount of domestic customers you need to be successful?
I am getting in a fair bit of domestic but not enough to carpet clean full time. 6 months ago I was a full time postie doing the odd carpet, now I mainly carpet clean and work between 15-20 at royal mail.
The reason I would like some commercial is for the regular income and leave rm (can't even think about leaving it yet due to mortgage having to be paid and it's regular guaranteed work with the option of overtime if I need it during slow cc weeks), some weeks are great and I earn nearly what I earn a month at rm doing carpets then some weeks 1 job some weeks none!!! I figured that getting some regular contracts would come in pretty handy. However I do see what you are saying about putting the effort in to domestic as the earning potential there is good.
Cheers for all the advice
Andy
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I know the feeling Andy, just when you think you have cracked it you have a patchy week and at the end of the month it doesn't look quite so good.
Have you tried getting people on maintenance plans, or penciling them in for next year. It seems ages off but it's amazing how quickly it comes round and you have some idea of what you will have already booked.
Can't help feeling the answer is something you can't do much about. To get consistent response you need 5+ years in the business and even then you have to keep the wheel spinning.
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I have been going for 18 years andy,as mike said yes some weeks are great some are bad,over the years you will get more clients more work buit it will take time..Ido some commercial and it is somtimes slow paying or a hassle to do ie out of hours,night work..Sounds like your geting on your feet mind you,why dont you do an add on ie pressure washing or oven cleaning as you can sell it to your existing clients. cheers clinton
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its hard to leave guaranteed money but like was said to me once man who chases 2 rabbits will catch neither
the lad that worked for me left because I couldn't pay him how much he wanted, he's now working as a taxi driver doing cleaning part time until he gets busy.
but he know how my figures work, for over a year we did our own leafleting we did 5 man hours a day and this kept both of us in work 6 days a week.
if he spent the time he does driving a taxi leafleting he would bring in enough work to stop taxi-ing.
you work 20hrs for royal mail in 20 hrs you could put out 3.5 k leaflets at a response of only 2 jobs per 1000 that would bring in 7-8 jobs if each job is your minimum charge of £50 you will earn at least £350 a week.
HOW MUCH A WEEK ARE RM PAYING YOU FOR 20HRS
If it not near £350 then you need to have a big think about your future, and don't worry about the mortgage this is what will motivate you to get out off bed and start leafleting.
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and please don't tell me your are working 4hrs a day delivering the mail, because the irony of what I've just written would just kill me :o :o
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yep its on the back.
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Mike how are you going on with your answer machine? are you using it or still diverted to the mobile?
I have an answer service you may want there charges seem to be less than most.
Shaun
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Mike I hate to be a damp squid, but your figures don't add up ?
Your man puts out 3.500 leaflets in 20 hours and gets £350 worth of work!
Now the important bit you have missed is he still has to do that work to get his £350!
So lets say it take him 15 hours in total from start to finish thats 35 hours counting him putting out the leaflets in all.
Taking out all his over heads from printing the leaflets, Shoe leather and cleaning equipement.
Stacking Shelves at Tesco's at night is better pay!
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Sorry to hijack this thread - but reading about 3.5k leaflets in 20 hours & getting 7-8 jobs from that -
would anyone care to share a good leaflet with me, if i'm not in your area, i'm in Cardiff
Many Thanks
Jon
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Andy
Most commercial only budget for daily cleaning (spot vacuuming), carpet cleaning is the last thing on their mind then there is a rush to spend the budget or they are having a visit! 8) Can and probably be out of normal working hours. Payment can be frustrating only if you let them get away with it 30day rule, then you budget for this, don’t we! ;D
Mike O
Given the wink on a care home £2k missed the boat on this, but will be checking them out Tue to see what system. ::) And yes Wayne you can have a small peace of the pie when I get it, which is a certainty. 8)
Len
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Dave, he works mornings leafleting, does carpet cleaning in the afternoon, or his wife helps him and they do 2hrs a night
its £350 if he only gets £50 a job, I can't remember the last time I did a job for £50, my average is probably nearer the ton.
he's already working 20hrs before his carpet cleaning so whats the difference.
and how slow does he have to work for 7 minimum price jobs to take him 15hrs ::) ::)
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Put like that it would add up
On another note I have had a gander at your new leaflet and must say it does look good
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Put like that it sounds so easy ;D ;D ;D
I work at the rm on thursday friday and saturday, 7 till 12 or 1 if busy, The money is pants there but I'm certainly not chasing it, I just like a bit of a contingency plan. I took them hours so I could have the most part of the week c/c'ing
I'm going to hammer the leafleting next week, I've plenty to get out so I'll keep you posted
Any chance I could see one of your leaflets Mike, or anyone elses :)
Cheers
Andy
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It all sounds like a real pain in the arse doesn’t it. We were getting pestered last week with a few people wanting lounges done for about £45. One woman had hired a rug doctor from homebase, couldn’t get through to the store on the phone so rang us asking how you use the machine!!.
By Thursday I had pulled the phone line out of the wall because these idiots were getting in the way of my communication business.
There must be a way of getting carpet cleaning to pay, I’m not going to back down now, not after telling people that i could get the business to the same level as the Arial and communication business.
I have been spoiled well and truly over the years with a business that just rakes in as much money as you are willing to let it and have to constantly regulate rapid expansion. We turn away on average 35% of new enquires which is a good figure in this business. We are quite new so can handle almost all new enquires.
A friend of mine has a massive house with swimming pool and helicopter in garden and is turning away about 85% of his incoming business. So therefore 15% of manageable business is turning him and 8 workers over a profit of £1.7 million per annum. don’t know what is Nett profit is, but will be large.
Matt
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Andy,
Wouldnt you be better spending 18 hours a week taking your leaflets out instead of working for RM?
Mark
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I think he does, at the same time. ;D
Mark has a point, I gues it's a leap of faith thing and also the lag in cashflow between delivery and results. And as we all know results are not consistent month in month out.
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It all sounds like a real pain in the arse doesn’t it. We were getting pestered last week with a few people wanting lounges done for about £45. One woman had hired a rug doctor from homebase, couldn’t get through to the store on the phone so rang us asking how you use the machine!!.
By Thursday I had pulled the phone line out of the wall because these idiots were getting in the way of my communication business.
There must be a way of getting carpet cleaning to pay, I’m not going to back down now, not after telling people that i could get the business to the same level as the Arial and communication business.
I have been spoiled well and truly over the years with a business that just rakes in as much money as you are willing to let it and have to constantly regulate rapid expansion. We turn away on average 35% of new enquires which is a good figure in this business. We are quite new so can handle almost all new enquires.
A friend of mine has a massive house with swimming pool and helicopter in garden and is turning away about 85% of his incoming business. So therefore 15% of manageable business is turning him and 8 workers over a profit of £1.7 million per annum. don’t know what is Nett profit is, but will be large.
Matt
Nob...
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A lot of leaflets are not pulling two jobs per thousand so the entire idea collapes
I think Len said the other day he put out 15K and got zilch
Im still down to 1 per thousand
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Ian
What's your delivery method?
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You need a good mix of customers in this game to iron out the peaks and troughs (sp).
As for regular work any commercial you do should be offered a 6 month clean or less depending. Residential is yearly to three years. But they wont suddenly think of you at these time YOU have to remind them. Some have D/Debit plans but too much hassle for me but it does work.
Building a cleaning business on your own takes time. With the way the economy is at the minute I'd keep in good terms with Royal Mail.
Mark
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3 Days on the post must give you £130 after tax? Go with Mike and use that time to earn more without slogging a mailbag through all weathers!
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Ian do your leaflets go out solo, by someone who cares about how they are delivered?
if Andy put out his own lealfets by themselves I believe he would hit 2 per1000 especailly if he leafleted betreen the hours of 6pm & 8pm.
mike
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PS:....
"Len put out 15k and got ziltch......"
OK lets all stop leafleting, obviously leaflets don't work because they didn't work on this occasion for Len ::) ::)
wasn't someone saying last month they put out 600 and got 8 jobs.
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Thats interesting regarding the times, I find the best response if they go out in the morning around the time the mail arrives..
I get jobs off flyers that are 18 months old so dont expect a response the same day ;)
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Mike
My Leaflets go out Solo I have reports on roads done and due to me showing where to go I am able to track to ensure leaflet has been delivered. Although looking for one other trader to share cost
In fact he is very conscientious just got off phone after 15minute detail report including the weather conditions etc also Ger details of leads from people in gardens etc
I very much doubt that it is possible to get 3.5k out in 15 hrs calling at 60k household income properties
Also by limiting supply and asking for street details numbers etc I am reasonably confident that they are being delivered
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PS:....
"Len put out 15k and got ziltch......"
OK lets all stop leafleting, obviously leaflets don't work because they didn't work on this occasion for Len ::) ::)
wasn't someone saying last month they put out 600 and got 8 jobs.
Its got to be regular, one off drops don't always work,that's the whole problem because it doesn't work first time its no good ::) I did a job yesterday ,she got the leaflet last year but kept it for future use now not everyone does that.
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Lets have a peek at your flyer Ian..
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Ian I am surprised that you don't get 2/1000.
perhaps I'm looking at things through rose coloured glasses and am underestimating my own distribution method.
until this year I did about 20k a month (5k a week) this brought in easily more than 10 jobs a week. and this was when it was put out with an A5 booklet and sometimes 2 other leaflets ( buy usually only 1 other leaflets).
perhaps i live in a good area.
Mike
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Ian I know you don't agree with my estimate about how long it takes to put out a 1000 leaflets, which I say takes 6hrs maybe 7hrs if they have long drives.
but I think the confusion comes from how I calculate it, I would never say anyone could do this figure in one go, but in 1hr-30mins or 2hr stints I thinks it possible at this rate you can have a good pace.
so anyone can do a 1000 a week working just 2hrs spread out through the day.
I don't think any one can sustain any longer than this over a long period, because leafleting is mind-numbingly boring.
But..... for a short period and perhaps with help ( kids, wife, friends etc) larger numbers (I believe) are possible
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Andy can tell you how many can be done in a hour if he is a Postie..
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Mike
Can you post the e-mail address of your leaflet printer, I tried e-mailing you direct but it came back as a failure.
Regards
Steve
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mailto:dpdesign@dpdesign.karoo.co.uk
I've moved over to DN ( 3 to a a4 sheet) 50k £400 inc delivery & design
w w w cheapleaflets. net
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Cheers Mike
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mailto:dpdesign@dpdesign.karoo.co.uk
I've moved over to DN ( 3 to a a4 sheet) 50k £400 inc delivery & design
w w w cheapleaflets. net
Mike
Will you be up for doing a session next year (including a beer one) on leaflets. 6th April?
Pete
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I have been trying out some 'upmarket' looking postcards. No offers, some nice glossy pics. Personally delivered about 3k so far over the last few weeks to nice homes.
1 proper job
Got better results with my mono inkjet leaflets when I first started.
Printing off some FT style jobbies tonight, postcards in the garage for now.
I'm hoping they will have some longevity and will return some better resulkts over time.
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Mike,
I was once told on a marketing course that you have to send the same leaflet to the same houses month in month out, it is not until someone has seen the same leaflet 3 times that they start to give it some attention. There is so much junk going through the post on a daily basis, that 95% of leaflets you post will go straight in the bin. To be honest i dont think you can judge a leaflet on a distribution of less than 50,000 over 6 months. You will be suprised how many calls we get from people who have had a leaflet 6 months ago and have saved it. Some people will say that leaflets dont work, you just need to keep at and you will ghet the rewards eventually ;)
Mark
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Ian
That was years ago and it was 45k :( but did put out 139 the other week and got two calls (test case looks promising will be taking the cartoon of the back and adding drain cleaning), I’ve even had calls that have a four-year-old YP with quote are you still carpet cleaning unquote. ::)
Think if timing is right you get a better response I don’t do the day before refuge collection.
Mike O
Mine were LaserJet.
Len
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I think the mistake I have made is to put all my efforts into a totally different design and size of leaflet/postcard.
These leaflets have all gone to my normal areas that I have been doing over two years, but if they have to be the same style/same leaflet then that's a different story.
Whilst I realise you will get a compound effect with leaflets and initially poor response may not be a good indicator. Who on earth would be daft enough to stick with the same thing for 6 months that doesn't get a response?
I would have thought 30k over 3/4 months testing two side by side would at least give you a fighting chance. Should really listen to my own advice. ;D
Len
No soggy paper
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Hands up total newbie regarding leaflets :o, yes I have done it small time :o, Dose any one asks for feed back from their customers on your leaflets, is it eye checking etc.
Len
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I got 1000 out today in 6 hours, some had long drives some short, mostly semi detached
I've gone for an area with houses ranging from £250,000 - £300,000 today
When should I do this area again......... 3-4 weeks????
It would be interesting to see anybody else's flyers, particularly ones that work ;D
I'd happily send mine back for ideas
Cheers
Andy
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Andy
You said you wanted to see some leaflets, you didn't say they had to be ones that work. ;D
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Just out of curiosity, do any carpet cleaners on this forum not bother to leaflet at all, but just use advertising in these community books.
It costs me £99 to have 5000 double sided glossy colour A5 leaflets printed, then i have to post them. For £70 i can have a half page (A5) advert in a community book that will then be delivered to 5000 homes and businesses. The one local book to me only has at present, one carpet cleaner so do you think advertising in here would be better than leaflets?
These books seem to be read over and over, and if you are in the book every month, you are building brand recognition.
Dave
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I feel community books can work ok, seem to get 1 job per 1000 which are of decent quality ie. suite and couple of carpets, not £50 jobs anyway
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Ian I know you don't agree with my estimate about how long it takes to put out a 1000 leaflets, which I say takes 6hrs maybe 7hrs if they have long drives.
but I think the confusion comes from how I calculate it, I would never say anyone could do this figure in one go, but in 1hr-30mins or 2hr stints I thinks it possible at this rate you can have a good pace.
so anyone can do a 1000 a week working just 2hrs spread out through the day.
I don't think any one can sustain any longer than this over a long period, because leafleting is mind-numbingly boring.
But..... for a short period and perhaps with help ( kids, wife, friends etc) larger numbers (I believe) are possible
Mike I do not disagre with 1000 8 hours it was 3500 in 15hrs I disagreed with.
Regarding response rate , your figures are correct in long term My Guy does two hour shifts.
I was just point out so as to not lead people astray that response rates may be lower.
we were getting 3 per thousand. From an area when leaflets were put out plus the odd stray from previous distributions.
But we do need to work tighter and increase frequencies.
Just read postee andy claiming 1000 in six hours.
that works out 3k 18hrs
Andy were you on your own as someone else claimed this on another forum but the discoverechis wife went with him at the end both were shattered after working at it for six hours. never going to do leaflets again as they only got two jobs
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Ian you must have at some point misread my post, I quoted 3.5k in 20hrs not 15hrs
here I've cut & patested it;
you work 20hrs for royal mail in 20 hrs you could put out 3.5 k leaflets at a response of only 2 jobs per 1000 that would bring in 7-8 jobs if each job is your minimum charge of £50 you will earn at least £350 a week.
Dave (spot on) you are paying too much for your leaflets, it should work out @ 10,000/£100
Andy, do the same area in 3 weeks then every 4 weeks after that.
Mike
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Spot on cleaning
If your leaflets went out with 50 others, would you expect a better response than delivering your leaflets solus?
They do have a shelf life though, and if they need a local cc it's just between you and the other guy.
Although exceedingly difficult I have persauded the odd Parish mag to insert my leaflets, but this only lasted a month or two as the volounteers started whinging about the extra effort.
Got good results from that.
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Mike - where you getting leaflets at 10000 for £100
and what size, are they double sided, gloss or matt
I just ordered 5000 @£99 A5 colour, double sided gloss from DPdesign/cheapleaflets
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Joe ordering just 5000 will masively increase the price, try getting a price for 50,000
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Yep, bulk buying does the trick with pricing
the price was 5000/£99, but 10000/£139 - obviously better value for money the more you order.
I did 5000 cause its my first go at bigger leaflet drops and I just wanted to see the reaction
reasonably I can expect between 0 and 5 response
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Ian you must have at some point misread my post, I quoted 3.5k in 20hrs not 15hrs
here I've cut & patested it;
you work 20hrs for royal mail in 20 hrs you could put out 3.5 k leaflets at a response of only 2 jobs per 1000 that would bring in 7-8 jobs if each job is your minimum charge of £50 you will earn at least £350 a week.
Dave (spot on) you are paying too much for your leaflets, it should work out @ 10,000/£100
Andy, do the same area in 3 weeks then every 4 weeks after that.
Mike
Mike
It appears I owe you an apology.
Maybee I am getting old