Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: birdymiller on June 04, 2008, 04:55:43 pm
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Im a few days into using wfp. Im frustrated by the results i am having spending alot of time trying to get windows clean. I rinse tops of frames, scrub windows with water up and down say 5 or 6 times and then rinse. Tds is 0. I know they are first cleans and i have been warned that they dont come spotless straight away. Please someone tell me that it gets better as i am doubting wfp and my arms and back are aching. Any tips and motivation would be much appreciated.
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Im a few days into using wfp. Im frustrated by the results i am having spending alot of time trying to get windows clean. I rinse tops of frames, scrub windows with water up and down say 5 or 6 times and then rinse. Tds is 0. I know they are first cleans and i have been warned that they dont come spotless straight away. Please someone tell me that it gets better as i am doubting wfp and my arms and back are aching. Any tips and motivation would be much appreciated.
First of all stick with it m8, anyone that is doing wfp has been there.
on first cleans go round and wash all frames first (more attention to the tops) then go and clean the glass not touching frame and with flow rate so it does not spray the frames.
it will get better soon I promise, if you was in my area I would come and help you im in bedford/cambs area if you feel like popping down your welcome anytime.
Are you using enough water ? I used loads the first month or two I was cleaning.
Ian
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It does get better.
Its like when you first start traditional you were probably crap to begin with then the more time you do it the better you get.
Same with WFP you can't expect perfect results from day one you need to learn how to use the system properly.
We all felt the way you are feeling when we first went WFP and you feel like going back to ladders.
Don't stick with it, don't tell customers about spots they go looking for them.
They do work otherwise most of us on this forum would be back on ladders.
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Got my flow setting on 8 is that right. Ive used 160 litres today and ive only cleaned the upstairs on the front because my lad has done the sides and back with the ladder. Not done nowhere near what we would have normally done, money wise but i have been chatting to custies alot more than usual. Done it this way co custies only have to deal with 2 spotting windows. As i get faster i will switch them all over. Thats the plan anyway. Thanks Ian and paul, i just need to relax a little and stop getting so stressed :)
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get your dad to give the frames a good clean while he is up there (not with any soap). It will stand you in good stead when you start to do all the windows.
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What detergent have you been using traditionally? If it's fairy, immediately send the bottle to the dishes, and start cleaning with a professional liquid like Squeegee off or Glass Gleam 3 or 4.
I've got zero spotting, this is my fourth day, and the windows are beautiful.
Fairy sucks for wfp, leaves a film behind on the glass, which breaks up and you have to keep rinsing and scrubbing to not leave spots. A professional liquid leaves minimal detergent behind.
Also start wiping the frame if your still trad, and detail the edges.
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Got my flow setting on 8 is that right. Ive used 160 litres today and ive only cleaned the upstairs on the front because my lad has done the sides and back with the ladder. Not done nowhere near what we would have normally done, money wise but i have been chatting to custies alot more than usual. Done it this way co custies only have to deal with 2 spotting windows. As i get faster i will switch them all over. Thats the plan anyway. Thanks Ian and paul, i just need to relax a little and stop getting so stressed :)
Yep stop getting stressed had as it maybe,
Agree with last post that DO NOT USE FAIRY, get gg4/3 4 hard 3 soft not that it makes much difference, squegee off (in van never used so cant comment)
frame wipes more the tops 1 month of cleans, second time around you will see a little difference in time 3rd you will see it coming into its own 4th you will be asking ya lad to hurry up or move out of the way.
Chin up fella ;)
only a call away if you need help.
Ian
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Don't worry about speed, take your time and relax. The first few weeks are knackering then your body adapts. Spotting is a problem but you'll gradually work out whats going on. Watch out for your brush flicking above the frames and rinse close to the glass. First cleans are always hard work and frustrating.
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I wouldn't worry about buying expensive detergents.
I used washing up liquid for 10 years, and when I switched to wfp I had no problems with suds and spots.
Ignore the amateurs! ;D
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Don't worry about speed, take your time and relax. The first few weeks are knackering then your body adapts. Spotting is a problem but you'll gradually work out whats going on. Watch out for your brush flicking above the frames and rinse close to the glass. First cleans are always hard work and frustrating.
Good advice but it takes a lot longer than a few weeks for your body to adapt a lot longer,for you to get used to it it will take months.
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Im going to a different area tomorrow, so im gonna get me ladders out. Rpwc gave me a good tip about just converting a few at a time so that i dont get too far behind with my work. Cheers for the comments but my back is still aching :(
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I wouldn't worry about buying expensive detergents.
I used washing up liquid for 10 years, and when I switched to wfp I had no problems with suds and spots.
Ignore the amateurs! ;D
I would worry about expensive detergents as i had untold trouble with windows that i use to clean with Fairy - When cleaned previously with gg4 i had no problems and this was definately not coincidence.
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Im going to a different area tomorrow, so im gonna get me ladders out. Rpwc gave me a good tip about just converting a few at a time so that i dont get too far behind with my work. Cheers for the comments but my back is still aching :(
I can promise you that if you used a SL2 on your work to start off with you wouldn`t ache half as much,what pole are you using that could be why your finding it tireing.
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Its a brute of a thing, Ecoline apparently its a commercial pole. Ive nearly finished my harris pole just got to get some pole hose for it. Dont want to go and spend loads of money just yet on a pole, as im still a bit unsure how this wfp will pan out for me.
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I wouldn't worry about buying expensive detergents.
I used washing up liquid for 10 years, and when I switched to wfp I had no problems with suds and spots.
Ignore the amateurs! ;D
I would worry about expensive detergents as i had untold trouble with windows that i use to clean with Fairy - When cleaned previously with gg4 i had no problems and this was definately not coincidence.
I didn't notice any problem. ???
I suppose it depends if you're doing wfp properly from the start. ;)
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If its any consolation you are at about the same low point as I reached when I started two years ago. Now, I can't believe it was only two years ago but at the time if I could have found a skip I would have dumped the lot.
It does get better.
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I hope so vince ???
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Birdy, Hope it works out. You,ve had plenty of advice about cleaning so I won't add to it. About technique though. Watch yourself. Don't just stand there moving the pole up and down with your arms or you could be in for some very sore bits down the line, like elbows especially but also shoulders. Use your legs as much as possible, also go left and right handed. Change the grip of your bottom hand....I use 3 types of grip. Cos if you get tennis elbow from poling it's a bugger and very hard to get rid of.
Stick in there, you know it makes sense ;)
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Cheers feen, i just keep telling myself that i might be losing out on money for a few months but if i fell of my ladder and was off work for a while i would lose alot more :)
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Cheers feen, i just keep telling myself that i might be losing out on money for a few months but if i fell of my ladder and was off work for a while i would lose alot more :)
I am starting soon , and I think you have to be single minded ! Ladders are dangerous , so you are using a safer alternative now . Yes it is going to be hard to start ( ISNT EVERTTHING ) If you have good customers , I think they will be patient with you if they see you trying your best ;D
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Sjm its a nightmare at the moment. Up to now all custies have been great but if any of them start i will either bin the wfp or wfp their face ;D
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Sjm its a nightmare at the moment. Up to now all custies have been great but if any of them start i will either bin the wfp or wfp their face ;D
LOL . Well you said it yourself , the custys are ok with it ;D You are frustrated I suspect because you are out of your comfort zone ! NO pain no gain my friend LOL .
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Probably going against the flow, but I have to say taking everything into consideration, I think wfp is overrated. Opinion varies round my way. I think it depends how quick you are with trad methods.
If someone was starting from scratch, no problem. But I found converting a round sooo much hassal. 13 years of trad - some of my customers simply couldn't get their heads round wfp.
When you add up the bigger van (more expenses), running costs etc the net profit at the end of the week isn't that much different to trad. I'm still taking home around 550-600.
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Joe ive only spent £800 on a second hand trolley system because i wasnt sure it was going to be worth investing say a few grand on a van system. What persuaded me to go for it was watching groundhogs video, he made it look so easy. But as he says they are maintenance cleans whereas as mine at the moment are 1st cleans >:(
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There are a lot of extra costs with wfp and if your completely happy with ladders and that wage then why change?
It suits me because i came in from another trade and hate ladders but if you saw my expenses, you being trad would have a heart attack i would think.
My wife kept saying "why can't you just buy a ladder and a bucket?".
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What persuaded me to go for it was watching groundhogs video, he made it look so easy.
Big mistake, you only see him use a wfp, you don't see the results. There's a lot of egos on here about who's got the biggest, who's the fastest etc. Take most of this with a tiny pinch of salt & welcome to the real(istic) world. ;)
Tony
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This speed thing only works on almost clean windows, if you get some sun baked bird crap then you can waste a lot of time scrubbing, tree sap or pollen or anything greasy will slow you down then there are all the obsticles to navigate around and snag your hose, gates, courtyards and parked cars - there's an awefull lot you don't see on these videos going around on utube. ;)
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i was traditional for 13 years and have just switched over in the last 8 months its a completly different job after the first few cleans it gets easier we can at least work an extra 1-2 hours a day not to mention faster which gives you at least an extra days wages a week i would never go back stick with it theres plenty of professionals on this site to give you adivice
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Why can you work an extra 1-2 hours darragh? Whether trad or wfp, I can't honestly say I finish the day knackered. I do my 6 hours flat out then go home.
Only thing that bothers me are those boiling hot summers days, when the sun blazes all day. Killer.
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I could have thrown the towel in when first starting wfp.
Spent to much time rinsing when I should have consentrated on giving more time to cleaning the frames first.
Found it was quicker to clean frames by hand before polling.
Now I am confident so get stuck straight in.
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I wouldn't worry about buying expensive detergents.
I used washing up liquid for 10 years, and when I switched to wfp I had no problems with suds and spots.
Ignore the amateurs! ;D
I can recall the threads you started about problems with wfp, don't make me look them up lol. ;D
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I wouldn't worry about buying expensive detergents.
I used washing up liquid for 10 years, and when I switched to wfp I had no problems with suds and spots.
Ignore the amateurs! ;D
I can recall the threads you started about problems with wfp, don't make me look them up lol. ;D
I'm not saying I didn't have problems.
Not with soap residue or results in general though.
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I wouldn't worry about buying expensive detergents.
I used washing up liquid for 10 years, and when I switched to wfp I had no problems with suds and spots.
Ignore the amateurs! ;D
I can recall the threads you started about problems with wfp, don't make me look them up lol. ;D
I'm not saying I didn't have problems.
Not with soap residue or results in general though.
You get a lot of stick on here ! I like your posts ;D
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WFP looks easy and it really is once you've picked up all the liitle things to remember. It's a learning curve that can't be rushed. Speed will come with time. Not all WFP jobs are quicker WFP, some are best suited to trad.
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Im going to a different area tomorrow, so im gonna get me ladders out. Rpwc gave me a good tip about just converting a few at a time so that i dont get too far behind with my work. Cheers for the comments but my back is still aching :(
birdy i switched last october and my back as only just stopped aching lol hang in there our kid practice makes perfect as they say,don't forget i'm only a couple of miles down the road from you if you need any help...i'm no expert but i'm working on it ;)
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cheers kirky, i know i keep saying this but i am going to come and see you in action. Just to see the technique that you use and see if im doing anything wrong. Ill give you a call ;)
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Probably going against the flow, but I have to say taking everything into consideration, I think wfp is overrated. Opinion varies round my way. I think it depends how quick you are with trad methods.
If someone was starting from scratch, no problem. But I found converting a round sooo much hassal. 13 years of trad - some of my customers simply couldn't get their heads round wfp.
When you add up the bigger van (more expenses), running costs etc the net profit at the end of the week isn't that much different to trad. I'm still taking home around 550-600.
but how much will you be taking home if you have a fall?
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Probably going against the flow, but I have to say taking everything into consideration, I think wfp is overrated. Opinion varies round my way. I think it depends how quick you are with trad methods.
If someone was starting from scratch, no problem. But I found converting a round sooo much hassal. 13 years of trad - some of my customers simply couldn't get their heads round wfp.
When you add up the bigger van (more expenses), running costs etc the net profit at the end of the week isn't that much different to trad. I'm still taking home around 550-600.
but how much will you be taking home if you have a fall?
Spot on ! I came off a long time ago , and I was off for two months !
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Cheers feen, i just keep telling myself that i might be losing out on money for a few months but if i fell of my ladder and was off work for a while i would lose alot more :)
Too bloody right you would m8 , I can vouch for that, been off 8 weeks and i rcon it has cost me @ least2.5 grand.
As everyone has echoed ,it is a pain in the arse when changing over, some jobs will come up 2nd time , others take 3 or 4 to come up and there will be some that just won't come up at all. THese are the ones that you need to do trad. I used fairy liquid trad because the proper w/c stuff just doesn't let tghe blade glide across the window as easily, this is apparrently what causes alot of probs when changing over as it takes longer to get rid of fairy residue than proper w/c solutions.
If you have lots of problems with spotting and get complaints , just offer to go back and do them again next day, most should be happy with that. Good luck
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Probably going against the flow, but I have to say taking everything into consideration, I think wfp is overrated. Opinion varies round my way. I think it depends how quick you are with trad methods.
If someone was starting from scratch, no problem. But I found converting a round sooo much hassal. 13 years of trad - some of my customers simply couldn't get their heads round wfp.
When you add up the bigger van (more expenses), running costs etc the net profit at the end of the week isn't that much different to trad. I'm still taking home around 550-600.
but how much will you be taking home if you have a fall?
Never fell off in 13 years, but I appreciate it can happen.
I have been using wfp for the last 2 years.
3 months ago I fell over one of those garden glow lights when using wfp. Wasn't pretty. ;D No injuries or anything, but I have had more incidents using wfp than trad. Tripping over flower pots when looking up etc etc.
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Why can you work an extra 1-2 hours darragh? Whether trad or wfp, I can't honestly say I finish the day knackered. I do my 6 hours flat out then go home.
Only thing that bothers me are those boiling hot summers days, when the sun blazes all day. Killer.
joe
6 hours was all i could manage with the heavey ladders and climbing waving a pole about is much easier
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One thing that strikes me since joining the forum is how short a day most window cleaners work. I always thought I was a lazy git doing only 6 hours a day ;D
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Why can you work an extra 1-2 hours darragh? Whether trad or wfp, I can't honestly say I finish the day knackered. I do my 6 hours flat out then go home.
Only thing that bothers me are those boiling hot summers days, when the sun blazes all day. Killer.
6 hours was all i could manage with the heavey ladders and climbing waving a pole about is much easier
use diy ladders much lighter only problem is your weight over 15 stone and you take a risk
This is madness !
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DIY ladders tend to wear out real quick I found.
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worse I came off em !
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Been using a DIY one, but it's more the professional side of it, it's MAHER, German made, really well build ladder, very very light triple extension ladder. :)
No more ladders for me now though, SL2 and SL-X all the way!
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I could never get replacement feet for diy ladders either. Done in 6 or 8 months. My last set of trade ladders lasted 8 years, feet readily available. But yeah, they are heavier.
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Groundhog wears running spikes ;D
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who supplies them
Sorry bud, bought them in the Netherlands, not here.