Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: elite mike on May 28, 2008, 06:01:58 pm
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having read all the posts on fuel prices
i thought you might like to see this
www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=stratcon&gclid=CLnhrPLUyZMCFQyN1Qod5wK7jw
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i cant be bothered reading all that and it all looks a con
...but...if we could, window cleaners would be minted! the mount of water we carry around ;D
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having read all the posts on fuel prices
i thought you might like to see this
www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=stratcon&gclid=CLnhrPLUyZMCFQyN1Qod5wK7jw
There is no need for the large complicated design like they show in the picture, there is a much simpler way by building a browns Gas hydrogen cell.
Joe and I have already built one and they work, but you have to have fuel in your tank as it works along side your fuel in the tank, it reduces the fuel consumption by 50% and more in some cases.
We had to buy the plans so don't ask for them, unless you want to part with your cash :o
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Hi Jeff
Can you recommend the company you used or are you allowed to sell the info on?
Have been looking on the web and not sure which one is best.
Thanks
Arthur
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having read all the posts on fuel prices
i thought you might like to see this
www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=stratcon&gclid=CLnhrPLUyZMCFQyN1Qod5wK7jw
There is no need for the large complicated design like they show in the picture, there is a much simpler way by building a browns Gas hydrogen cell.
Joe and I have already built one and they work, but you have to have fuel in your tank as it works along side your fuel in the tank, it reduces the fuel consumption by 50% and more in some cases.
We had to buy the plans so don't ask for them, unless you want to part with your cash :o
50 percent :o :o ;D ;D ;D Sounds like the future to me... :P :P
So... it does work?? Will it work in a normal diesel/petrol engine or would the injectors etc need adapting? Does it reduce power?
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Hi Jeff
Can you recommend the company you used or are you allowed to sell the info on?
Have been looking on the web and not sure which one is best.
Thanks
Arthur
I'll check with Joe and see if were allowed to sell the info on, I know were allowed to build the fuel cells and sell them on.
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having read all the posts on fuel prices
i thought you might like to see this
www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=stratcon&gclid=CLnhrPLUyZMCFQyN1Qod5wK7jw
There is no need for the large complicated design like they show in the picture, there is a much simpler way by building a browns Gas hydrogen cell.
Joe and I have already built one and they work, but you have to have fuel in your tank as it works along side your fuel in the tank, it reduces the fuel consumption by 50% and more in some cases.
We had to buy the plans so don't ask for them, unless you want to part with your cash :o
50 percent :o :o ;D ;D ;D Sounds like the future to me... :P :P
So... it does work?? Will it work in a normal diesel/petrol engine or would the injectors etc need adapting? Does it reduce power?
The Hydogen Gas can be used for petrol or diesel engines, the cell is connected to your 12v battery and the gas is fed into the air in-take, so no big deal in fitting one, if anyone was unsure, a local garage can fit them in minutes.
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So.... is the gas separated from water "on the fly".... using power from the battery? It just makes the car more efficient? Thats.... really very ingenious... is it safe....? :-[
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So.... is the gas separated from water "on the fly".... using power from the battery? It just makes the car more efficient? Thats.... really very ingenious... is it safe....? :-[
Its as safe as the fuel in your fuel tank.
An activator and pure water (if you can find any pure water ;D ;D) are added to the fuel cell, 1ltr of pure water will last around a week.
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So.... is the gas separated from water "on the fly".... using power from the battery? It just makes the car more efficient? Thats.... really very ingenious... is it safe....? :-[
Its as safe as the fuel in your fuel tank.
An activator and pure water (if you can find any pure water ;D ;D) are added to the fuel cell, 1ltr of pure water will last around a week.
Ahhhh thats a shame.... might find it hard to find a liter of pure water... ;) ;) :P
Let us know if you can sell the info / fuel cells on.... its an interesting idea...!
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Check these links out FIRST before parting with your money.... ;)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxy_gas
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
Regards
Mr H
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Hmmm... the plot thickens.... ;) :P :P
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Indeed it does.
The old saw: "There's no such thing as a free lunch" holds true here. You can convert water to its component elements (hydrogen and oxygen) by passing an electric current through it, and you can then burn the hydrogen with oxygen to turn it back to water, but if by doing so you gained usable energy, that would be creating new energy. There's no such thing. Energy has to come from somewhere.
The electric current needed to 'split' water has to be generated, and the energy needed to generate it is more than the energy released when the hydrogen is burned, so there is a net loss.
In other words, you need to burn more fuel to charge your battery in order to produce enough electricity to 'split' the water than you gain back.
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Indeed it does.
The old saw: "There's no such thing as a free lunch" holds true here. You can convert water to its component elements (hydrogen and oxygen) by passing an electric current through it, and you can then burn the hydrogen with oxygen to turn it back to water, but if by doing so you gained usable energy, that would be creating new energy. There's no such thing. Energy has to come from somewhere.
The electric current needed to 'split' water has to be generated, and the energy needed to generate it is more than the energy released when the hydrogen is burned, so there is a net loss.
In other words, you need to burn more fuel to charge your battery in order to produce enough electricity to 'split' the water than you gain back.
ian you dont need any battery power, google vaporizer browns gas, ::)
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;D thanks mike
Best thread ever, ( >:( only I now have saved the sited, sites and have loads to read)
WOW! I always wondered about H2O (and there's so much of it!)
I think there must be a good reason why we don't us it though!
If as someone already said, nothing for nothing energy COSTS
using water as fuel eventually there would be none left (theoretically speaking of course!)
unethical ? :'(
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Related to hydrogen fuel enhancement (http://"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_enhancement") systems that are widely marketed in a fraudulent way.
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yes you are right, there are a lot of scams out there, so dont part with your cash, until you get good feed back, i will let you know shortly how i get on with it, what you have to know is the 12v hydrogen generator only produces gas when the ignition is turn on, automaticly stops when you turn it of, there is no danger of gas explosion, as a special release valve is built in to the generator, even thats not needed, but there as a precaution, as the only the gas is release when the engine is running, and that is consumed, so no gases build up,
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Garlic. . . . . . . . "Bread" ?
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having read all the posts on fuel prices
i thought you might like to see this
www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=stratcon&gclid=CLnhrPLUyZMCFQyN1Qod5wK7jw
There is no need for the large complicated design like they show in the picture, there is a much simpler way by building a browns Gas hydrogen cell.
Joe and I have already built one and they work, but you have to have fuel in your tank as it works along side your fuel in the tank, it reduces the fuel consumption by 50% and more in some cases.
We had to buy the plans so don't ask for them, unless you want to part with your cash :o
Jeff,
In my opinion (can't vouch for the rest) you and Joe are respected members of this forum. Therefore (since I can't find all I need to know on WFPTA) please tell/sell me more.
I'm sure Joe has a picture of a fuel cell, For some reason there are plenty of sceptics and some say you don't get something for nothing, well they are entitled to there own opinions and I fully respect it, but its the same old story, How can you knock something before even trying it?
The cell has a stainless steel coil that is connected to the vehicle battery, Hurray we have our power source, OK we have the power source, what next?
In the Cell we have an activator (available in most home kitchens or supermarkets) The activator is mixed with pure water.
The power heats the water with the activator in it and Brown's Gas begins to be produced, the gas is then fed into the inlet manifold or air intake of a petrol or diesel engine and its this gas that produces your power.
The manual is very informative and belive me it works.
Some vehicles get more than 30%/40% saving, there are reports of some vehicles getting less, I suppose its down to the engine, the way its driven and so on.
The Browns hydrogen gas doesn't give you 100% fuel saving and there are no claims that it does.
If you want to run your vehicle purely on Hydrogen gas the you will have to install a much larger fuel cell, and fit a large extra fuel tank, some guy's have actually fitted banks of fuel cell to increase there savings.
The Honda motor company have already built a hydrogen Car and I'm sure a company like Honda must have spent millions of pounds developing a workable power plant.
Does any one on here belive that the big oil Giant want this Technology put out?? I don't think so, there has already been reports of murder of people developing Hydrogen to run our vehicles.
I think you can see this on utube somewhere.
Any way that's my tuppence worth.
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having read all the posts on fuel prices
i thought you might like to see this
www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=stratcon&gclid=CLnhrPLUyZMCFQyN1Qod5wK7jw
There is no need for the large complicated design like they show in the picture, there is a much simpler way by building a browns Gas hydrogen cell.
Joe and I have already built one and they work, but you have to have fuel in your tank as it works along side your fuel in the tank, it reduces the fuel consumption by 50% and more in some cases.
We had to buy the plans so don't ask for them, unless you want to part with your cash :o
Jeff,
In my opinion (can't vouch for the rest) you and Joe are respected members of this forum. Therefore (since I can't find all I need to know on WFPTA) please tell/sell me more.
I'm sure Joe has a picture of a fuel cell, For some reason there are plenty of sceptics and some say you don't get something for nothing, well they are entitled to there own opinions and I fully respect it, but its the same old story, How can you knock something before even trying it?
The cell has a stainless steel coil that is connected to the vehicle battery, Hurray we have our power source, OK we have the power source, what next?
In the Cell we have an activator (available in most home kitchens or supermarkets) The activator is mixed with pure water.
The power heats the water with the activator in it and Brown's Gas begins to be produced, the gas is then fed into the inlet manifold or air intake of a petrol or diesel engine and its this gas that produces your power.
The manual is very informative and belive me it works.
Some vehicles get more than 30%/40% saving, there are reports of some vehicles getting less, I suppose its down to the engine, the way its driven and so on.
The Browns hydrogen gas doesn't give you 100% fuel saving and there are no claims that it does.
If you want to run your vehicle purely on Hydrogen gas the you will have to install a much larger fuel cell, and fit a large extra fuel tank, some guy's have actually fitted banks of fuel cell to increase there savings.
The Honda motor company have already built a hydrogen Car and I'm sure a company like Honda must have spent millions of pounds developing a workable power plant.
Does any one on here belive that the big oil Giant want this Technology put out?? I don't think so, there has already been reports of murder of people developing Hydrogen to run our vehicles.
I think you can see this on utube somewhere.
Any way that's my tuppence worth.
You must get frustated ::)
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this is just a preview for the non believers ;D
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Do you have one installed and working in your vehicle yet Jouk?
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In principle:
* the car's battery produces energy to separate water into HHO gas.
* the car's engine burns HHO to produce energy (and water as the exhaust gas) - some of the energy is used to drive the car forward and some of the energy is returned to the car's battery to produce more HHO - also known as Brown's Gas.
Simple!
You have just designed a perpetual motion machine.
It's similar to the popular idea of using a generator to drive a dynamo and using the dynamo to drive the generator and get a bit of free energy out.
Yes, it works when you talk about it. The problem comes when you do the science and maths behind it. There are energy losses at every step, so energy put in is immediately dissipated and no energy can be taken out.
Ian (Reply #12) explained it perfectly in greater detail.
There is a law called the 2nd law of thermodynamics - you can't get owt for nowt. There is absolutely no doubt that it is true. It's also called entropy if you want to look it up.
Please, don't waste your money on scams like this. If it could be done there would be university departments all over the world researching it. (It's like cold nuclear fusion. No one is researching it because it simply cannot work.)
BTW - the hyodrogen car developed by Honda (Reply #20) didn't produce its own hydrogen, it fills up with hydrogen from a hydrogen tank. Why? Because it CAN'T produce its own hydrogen. Honda know about the 2nd law.
Some other stuff - (i) a fuel cell isn't something you can make on the kitchen table and (ii) HHO gas is extrememly dangerous. You could blow up your own house and two houses either side by messing with this stuff.
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"you can't get owt for nowt"
Interesting,.... but your logic is flawed.
You are actually putting something in: WATER
The water is used up and is therefore a supplementary "fuel" in this case.
Also any auto electrician will tell you that an alternator puts out approx 17 volts,.. where the battery only uses 12,.. so it is this wasted voltage that is used to split the water,... making the system less wasteful, but not breaking any law of thermodynamics!
So,... the question is,... in real life, taking in to account all the inefficiencies and energy losses:
Does it actually make any difference at all to your fuel consumption???
I want to hear from someone who has actually tried it,... not a 3rd party who thinks they know about it!!
Are there any "run your car on water" forums???
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Don't want to be snotty about this, but I do have an honours degree in physics and astrophysics. I know a thing or two about thermodynamics and the laws of energy.
I can promise you that my logic is not in the least bit flawed.
* If you really do want to know about this, check out "entropy" on the internet. Go for a site that is created by a university or some other body. It will tell you that "you can't get owt for nowt" but put it in rather more scientific language. It comes down to the same thing. It is the second law of thermodynamics.
* Water is not a fuel since it cannot be oxidised. Water is hydrogen oxide. H2O.
* Ask any auto electrician (who really understands their theory) and they will tell you that voltage is not "used up" - it a measure of the potential diference between two points. The alternator needs to produce a voltage in excess of 13.6 V - the excess is used to "push" the electric current through the battery "the wrong way" in order to charge it.
* You cannot use "wasted voltage" to split the water. (i) There is no "wasted voltage." (ii) Energy is needed to split water - the relationship between energy and voltage is more complex than that.
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I bow to your wisdom Wally!
BUT,...
If the water was split using a different method (Solar panels perhaps),.. could this still be a simple way to compliment the petrol/diesel going into your engine and reduce fuel costs?
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The piston draws in petrol (fuel), this mixes with air, the active component part being oxygen. To introduce hydrogen as some part of the air intake would lessen the available oxygen, possibly lessening the power output.
There is no reason to believe the piston would draw in less petrol. Therefore it is unlikely there would be any saving.
Years ago Noel Edmunds invested a lot of money in this(100mpg car). He thought it would make him rich. He lost his money.
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its the baking soda that creates the electrical current, in the water, The term fuel from water, is misleading, the soda makes hydrogen gas, its the gas that is used as a fuel mixture, if you want to buy one ready made this is the best one, check there videos out
www.shop.hydrofuelsolutions.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=2
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LldM8UzeU8g
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Rather than wasting your money on Hydrogen scams why not check out a vehicle that actually runs on AIR.....
The Indian rights to produce this vehicle were recently bought by TATA of India and will be on sale in the UK by the end of the year....... and estimated to cost less than £3k it should be a certified winner with the price of fuel today...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7241909.stm
www.theaircar.com/acf/
zeropollutionmotors.us/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4
Regards
Mr H
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The piston draws in petrol (fuel), this mixes with air, the active component part being oxygen. To introduce hydrogen as some part of the air intake would lessen the available oxygen, possibly lessening the power output.
There is no reason to believe the piston would draw in less petrol. Therefore it is unlikely there would be any saving.
Years ago Noel Edmunds invested a lot of money in this(100mpg car). He thought it would make him rich. He lost his money.
Splitting water gives you both hydrogen AND oxygen in the perfect ratio for re-combustion.
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nathan both are seperated when set up in the engine compartment, the hydrogen is put into the intake, the oxygen is put into the air vacum pipe,
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is this topic still here :o
now if you could run your car on water and heat it for wfp then that would be something to do with window cleaning ;D
Joe if you are online please msn me.
Ian
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Does any one on here belive that the big oil Giant want this Technology put out?? I don't think so, there has already been reports of murder of people developing Hydrogen to run our vehicles.
I think you can see this on utube somewhere.
Any way that's my tuppence worth.
Hey Jeff, my dad always tells me the story of a guy who invented a tablet that you put into a tank of water. You could then use the vehicle as if it were filled with petrol, without any modification. Apparently, he was bumped off. Do you know anything of this story?
On topic, I guess that the scientists among us are correct. You won't get free energy. However, as this is a supplement to the regular fuel and it is using energy that is already produced, won't there be some benefit?
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Does any one on here belive that the big oil Giant want this Technology put out?? I don't think so, there has already been reports of murder of people developing Hydrogen to run our vehicles.
I think you can see this on utube somewhere.
Any way that's my tuppence worth.
Hey Jeff, my dad always tells me the story of a guy who invented a tablet that you put into a tank of water. You could then use the vehicle as if it were filled with petrol, without any modification. Apparently, he was bumped off. Do you know anything of this story?
On topic, I guess that the scientists among us are correct. You won't get free energy. However, as this is a supplement to the regular fuel and it is using energy that is already produced, won't there be some benefit?
I heard that story years ago, I also head he was bumped off but that's all I know.
The scientists are right, you don't get something for nothing, but with the fuel cell I don't see anyone claiming you will get something for nothing?
I also said in my post that you still need fuel in your tank, the cell supplements your own fuel but give better miles per gallon per tank, so there is your benefit, if your van is doing, lets say 30mpg and you add a fuel cell you can now increase the mpg, even if it was by 10/20% there is money saved, if you add a bank of cells then again you get an increase in fuel consumption, a bank of cells can be any number you like, some guy's have 6 cells fitted, but you need the room under your bonnet for this amount.
In a cell you have the activator with 1ltr of pure water, I suppose this is were the term run your vehicle on water comes from.
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hi guys
thanks for all the replies,its given me plenty to think about.
also i have been looking at electric vans and cars ,for my compact work,
these seem to be a more viable option
regards
mike
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I heard that story years ago, I also head he was bumped off but that's all I know.
The scientists are right, you don't get something for nothing, but with the fuel cell I don't see anyone claiming you will get something for nothing?
I also said in my post that you still need fuel in your tank, the cell supplements your own fuel but give better miles per gallon per tank, so there is your benefit, if your van is doing, lets say 30mpg and you add a fuel cell you can now increase the mpg, even if it was by 10/20% there is money saved, if you add a bank of cells then again you get an increase in fuel consumption, a bank of cells can be any number you like, some guy's have 6 cells fitted, but you need the room under your bonnet for this amount.
In a cell you have the activator with 1ltr of pure water, I suppose this is were the term run your vehicle on water comes from.
It seems quite a feasible idea to me Jeff. The way you explained it is exactly what I was thinking. Thanks. :)
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have a look at this then guys
www.green-car-guide.com/news-2008-04/peugeot-citroen-fuel-cell-van.htm