Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: herbiefatboy on May 24, 2008, 02:06:56 pm
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if you have 2 men working out of a van WFP how much work in money roughly do they have to do before you make any money yourself.with them on a average wage of £8 a hour. thanks
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that all depends of the compant what your expediture is.
i mean if you say pay £200 a week out the lads earn you £20 a hour for 40 hours each thats £1600 turnover a week less £200 expediure and wages of £640 so your making around 45- 50 % profit.
but the higher the expeniture the less profit.
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I was once told that you should make at least 40% of what they make, However, shorty after i decided to down size and go alone. More trouble than it was worth in my opinion, but each to their own, i now plod along making my measily crust, but boy am i a lot happier.
Rob.
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thanks for your help so far
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any one else got any ideas
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dont employ unless you know exactly what your doing we emploed a good friend for five years, and it was nothing but hassle, he was a hard work but not a good worker, had loads of talk about letting him go with my business partner but nevr too him and couldnt do it too him, just over a month ago he left too work with his dad.... THANK GOD FOR SMALL MERCIES... much better now, not employing yet but when we do we know where we went wrong before...
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Hi Hfb
finding yourself with too much work it seems the simple answer is to employ but as you have heard from many others its not always that simple
Earlier figures of £1600 by Ronnie although true are based on a perfect world with perfect staff and an endless supply of valued clients, i can assure you this perfect world is hard to find.
What with rainy days, holidays and sick days and that's just the clients!!!
There is also a very great difference between being a busy window cleaner with too much work and being an employer. The skills you have that have made you busy and succesful as a window cleaner are not always the same ideal skills that you need as an employer.
As many have said before "its not worth the effort" but from someone who is trying to manage a business i can assure you that when it does work it is well worth the effort. It is not always as profitable in the short term as when working the ladders yourself and it is often frustrating when your reputation rests upon your employees actions and you can feel incredibly alone and isolated as the "boss" but if you persevere it really is rewarding to see others enjoying their work and sharing in your "success".
My advice if it's worth reading is if you have question's and reservation's about taking on the added responsibility reduced profitability and longer working days then stay on the ladders and cherry pick both the clients and the hours that you want, for the rest of you who already have or are about to become an employer good luck and please come forward and share your pro's and con's with the rest of us.
Good luck Herbie with whatever path you decide upon
regards
Gordon
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At 40 or 50% you could suby out the work! thats what I have been thinking of doing, many companys around here do this
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If your thinking of employing these days the way insurance is you have to be WFP all the way for upstairs work at least.
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I have employed, now its just family and now i am about to test the water again.
I have employed twice and got it wrong twice, this time i will have to tread more carefully.
My wife now turns over more money per week on her own than the 2 lads did, at least one of them would be ill , finish early etc.
We now have to much work for just the family and cant cope anymore, at times i get so down about it, i just dont know which way to turn.
What i think I am doing is selling all my domestics and staffing my commercial work, each month we are always about £1000 behind in work not done.
I am even considering jacking it all in and doing something else, if anyone made me a serious offer for my Commercial work I might just do that.
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I have employed, now its just family and now i am about to test the water again.
I have employed twice and got it wrong twice, this time i will have to tread more carefully.
My wife now turns over more money per week on her own than the 2 lads did, at least one of them would be ill , finish early etc.
We now have to much work for just the family and cant cope anymore, at times i get so down about it, i just dont know which way to turn.
What i think I am doing is selling all my domestics and staffing my commercial work, each month we are always about £1000 behind in work not done.
I am even considering jacking it all in and doing something else, if anyone made me a serious offer for my Commercial work I might just do that.
That`s how i felt when employing,i had 2 fulltime and was constantly being mucked about by at least 1 of them,it got to the stage that i wasn`t enjoying it as much because each day there was some hassel to sort out that was nothing to do with work 1 thing or another, and it felt as though there was always a bill to pay.If you creamed of the good stuff and kept it in the family i bet you`d be better off,i know i was.I now sub some out and if i get any trouble i can just get someone else,i pay them what they`ve earn`t and that`s me done with them until the next time.
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NWH
We are big time better off, turnover is up 30 % since they have gone but with no wages to pay.
Work that one out
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NWH
We are big time better off, turnover is up 30 % since they have gone but with no wages to pay.
Work that one out
That`s because your all working how they should have been,to be honest Dave i`ll bet in reality you should have been earning that before if not more.I am in the same position now earnings up by about the same and with no wages to pay so if you look at it like that in real terms your profits are well above 30%.Most people who work for you will only ever do the minimum amount they can get away with as you know,i`ve had all the excuses you could ever dream of as you have,it does begin to make you think if it`s worth it.My mum always says look for the best in people son.
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Hi Dave
I think it is because your wife cares so much more about your business than any employee did, she obviously put's in that little bit of extra effort as it yours (hers).
About the lack of wages being paid it may seem like that but surely your wife will be earning her share or as partners won't she or you at least have to share the extra profit tax bill?
I am far from an expert and I continue to make mistakes as an employer but having found dependable and motivated staff who although make mistakes sometimes and frustrate me at other times the fact that they are allowed to learn from these mistakes allows them to grow in confidence and begin to enjoy working as part of a team.
We also share the same goals,to make money together and to be the clients first choice within our trade.
The benefits of our pooled experience and individual talents brings us together and perhaps produces that same great work ethic and attitude that your wife displays.
Your remarks about jacking it all in are far from surprising as this is what i meant about being alone as the boss, nobody appreciates the work you do the time you spend working but not actually cleaning windows, the way your expensive equipment gets cared for or not, the continuous bills etc etc and everyone else thinks its there hard work that makes the boss his profit.
Don't you dare give up don't let the so and so's grind you down, keep interviewing and you will find the good employees the other problem is going back to how it was , i may be wrong and i am sure someone here will tell me but it is like an old girlfriend she never is like what you remembered when you go back because as in life your business does move on and it does change
Keep your chin up and you will win through and i need to believe in someone else too
regards
gordon
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Gordon
Thanks for your words, they are quite encouraging.
As for my wife she is a real trouper and I dont think i appreciate her as i should.
I always do the early shift 6.00 - 9.00 this is where some good money is made, then back home to sort out whos going where.
We either go together or head off in 2 different directions until about 4.00 pm then we go together or I go off on my own to any extra commercials, last week we picked up 17 schools on top of an already full work load, we are trying to do them after 4.00 so it doesnt interfere with our schedule to much, it would be pointless having them if we have to delay our other work to do them.
I am getting pretty wacked out at the moment and I am not sleeping too much worrying about everything, I know i shouldnt but it is so hard not to, I lay awake going over and over everything in my mind, probably one of the reasons i spend so much time on here so it occupies my mind.
I go over every big job in my mind and probably clean it a dozen times in my mind through the night.
I havent shared this with anyone as of yet so it is good to get it off my mind.
I now know what Rob Mclean M-Clean meant when he said he sat there in his van and cried when he took a big step forward.
The bigger you get and the bigger the jobs and the stress levels start to go through the roof.
Sorry to bore you all with the way i feel at the moment.
Chears for now
Dave
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Dave, have you tried paying employees a basic rate and having a time and attendance bonus payable monthly ?
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Art
That is something i will consider,
one thing i am sure about is that i am going to sell off my domestics, it should free up about a week a month, which will give me more time to keep my commercials on time and do the extras i never get around to
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Well Dave good luck to you and i'm sure it'll work out well.
Think back to the days of the sponge and the rusty sierra and then think what you've acheived. That should keep you going.
That was one post that i'll never forget.
Arthur
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i always thought that commercials would be much easier to employ on,, just because of the size and being able to monitor it closer,
couldn't you send your wife off to the domestic, or, just leave the cream of the domestic, so that she doesnt have to work so hard, but you can still earn really good money for even less work,
and you employ on your commercial, with either you working with them or them on their own,
thing is with the financial situation i would stick with my loyal residential clients they are far less likely to dump you than a commercial
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Gordon
Thanks for your words, they are quite encouraging.
As for my wife she is a real trouper and I dont think i appreciate her as i should.
I always do the early shift 6.00 - 9.00 this is where some good money is made, then back home to sort out whos going where.
We either go together or head off in 2 different directions until about 4.00 pm then we go together or I go off on my own to any extra commercials, last week we picked up 17 schools on top of an already full work load, we are trying to do them after 4.00 so it doesnt interfere with our schedule to much, it would be pointless having them if we have to delay our other work to do them.
I am getting pretty wacked out at the moment and I am not sleeping too much worrying about everything, I know i shouldnt but it is so hard not to, I lay awake going over and over everything in my mind, probably one of the reasons i spend so much time on here so it occupies my mind.
I go over every big job in my mind and probably clean it a dozen times in my mind through the night.
I havent shared this with anyone as of yet so it is good to get it off my mind.
I now know what Rob Mclean M-Clean meant when he said he sat there in his van and cried when he took a big step forward.
The bigger you get and the bigger the jobs and the stress levels start to go through the roof.
Sorry to bore you all with the way i feel at the moment.
Chears for now
Dave
That's the main reason I've kept things relatively simple Dave. Stress blighted my life some years ago (non work issues) and I vowed never again. I would rather settle for less than go through that again. I take the view that our time on this planet is finite and if I spend too much of it stressed out and unhappy, then it will have been wasted. I don't have any business suggestions to offer as I've not been where you are. I did try to develop ways of coping wirth stress so that I could cope with my lifestyle and circumstances. The text books on such subjects are all very well but the suggestions didn't work for me. In the end, I had to do it the other way round. I had to change my lifestyle and circumstances to what I could cope with.
I thought I was admitting defeat.
The greatest irony is that in admitting defeat, I actually became the winner.
Life can really be bizarre like that sometimes.
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[quote author=Dave morris @ st-ives
I am getting pretty wacked out at the moment and I am not sleeping too much worrying about everything, I know i shouldnt but it is so hard not to, I lay awake going over and over everything in my mind, probably one of the reasons i spend so much time on here so it occupies my mind.
I won't say don't cos it's not quite that easy is it? but.......... if you make yourself seriously ill because of this (or worse) then what is the point
I havent shared this with anyone as of yet so it is good to get it off my mind.
If you haven't then share it with your wife....it's good to talk ;)
The bigger you get and the bigger the jobs and the stress levels start to go through the roof.
Too right they do. So you have to do something about it before it makes you ill
Sorry to bore you all with the way i feel at the moment.
If most of us employers are honest we all get like this from time to time, we are having a bad patch with employees and are having to re-define where we want to be with it all. The stupid amount of time spent on "red tape" issues are driving us round the bend. Staff holidays are to increase, more to pay out less coming in, rising cost of EVERYTHING. Staff demanding ridiculous wage increases etc etc etc. yet they go sick at the drop of a hat! Don't blame yourself by saying that you have got it wrong when employing, it is usuallly the person you employ that helps it to go wrong ;)
Chears for now
Dave
[/quote]
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Well Dave are you feeling any better today?
Well here goes, this is to demonstrate how not alone or unusual you or your situation is.
Year 2000 after long service and climbing up the corporate ladder i ended up being hospitalised or instituionalised i think they call it. I had a breakdown and ended up in a mental health hospital.
Me, a larger than life centre of attention top achiever within a national department store chain, i spent far too long in there and when allowed home i found no employer would touch me with a barge pole, as soon as you mention mental health the " sane " people head for the hills.
My ten year old son suggested cos i liked cleaning mums windows i should be a window cleaner. We started with a borrowed £35 from my late mum no experience no no how and worst of all no customers.
My wife (couldnt have done it without her) two young kids and i hand wrote leaflets saying we wil clean your house windows for £3.50 yes ANY house, how stupidly lovely naive we were.
Week one got three clients week two reached the dizzy heights of ten, ten and how we danced around the living room with delight.
After walking with a ladder and a full bucket of water for nine months we finally did a deal with a local businessman.I washed his office windows and house windows for free and he rented me his car for £30 a week while he was at work. I walked to his house in the morning, drove him to his office used the car for my round returning at 5pm every day to collect him from work took him home and then i walked home. What a bargain eh all for £30 a week.He said it was cheaper than paying parking huh.
Long story short i know what it is like to be down there and how good it feels to build something but it can still be very difficult at times but Dave you must as Helen says talk to someone even if it is on here or by PM or e-mail or as she suggests your most loyal supporter your lovely wife.
Achieving a balance between work and home is what we all crave but like standing on a high wire it is bloody difficult and you need to learn to sway one direction or the other at different times to remain balanced.
Last year we turned over £400,000, today we have 28 staff with a manager, six vans and trucks a fully staffed office a second home in Spain and all the other trappings that goes with it , am i any happier? hard to say but success breeds success and once you start that cycle it is hard to stop it rolling along as you yourself demonstrate with your new 17 school contract.
My advice is get off the ladders and become the boss of the business, accept the fact you need to become a businessman and that you are no longer a window cleaner this will allow you to concentrate on achieving your business objectives instead of as now being slave of them all and master of none. You need to stand back and be the captain of your ship, plot the course,decide where you want to be and let others sail the ship and do the work. Imagine setting the sails doing the rowing, steering, the rudder all by yourself the ship would go round in circles or end up run aground. Sound familiar?
Wow too much info of me to you all but i hope some of it, any of it, even a little bit might make a wee bit difference to even one of you and Dave i hope i have maybe given you a little sight of the light at the end of the tunnel and to help you to see IT IS NOT YOU OR ANYTHING YOU ARE OR ARE NOT DOING like Helen said we as employers all get like this now and then.
Keep that chin up, give your missus a big hug and get your finger out and be the very best window cleaning business in your area cos you are obviously more than capable of it
As they said to me in the mental home " its not you thats crazy it is everyone else"
regards
Gordon
ps am i happy now? who knows but i will never forget that day we ring a ring a roseed around the living room cos we had TEN customers.
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It pays to take a step backwards and remember where you started. We too remember "punching" the air like we had scored the winning goal in the FA cup final when we got our first £15.00 house.
Gordon, so glad you came out the "other" end..... many don't.
I think the one thing we all forget from time to time is to laugh, in particular at the things that make you stressed.
I was once told that every negative can be turned into a positive. At first I didn't believe it, but when you put your mind to it it CAN be done. ;D ;D ;D
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hi dave
i think we all get like this sometimes and helen has hit the nail on the head all the red tape and crap that employers have to put up with really wears you down, no wonder the country is like it is when the government make it harder for people to advance themselves.
my definition of stress is the confusion caused in ones mind when it overides the body and stops you squeezing the s--t out of some arsehole who really deserves it.
my advice is jusy do the best you can everything else is out of your control so pointless worrying about it.
good luck in whatever you decide
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Dave, the one thing that comes through reading your posts, is your appreciation of your good lady.
Never let anything come between you and your relationship, the love in your life is the most important thing in it, talk everything through with her, well you probably do that anyway. the most important thing is the love you share, and your future happiness together.
What ever course you embark on in your business, I wish you the very best of luck, but money is not everything.
Ask you Mrs what she wants in life, and go with that.
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Thanks guys for your kind words
I got a lump in my throat reading your repys.
I went to bed at 12.00 last night and only tossed and turned for an hour so didnt have a bad sleep, woke up at 5.30am and got to work at 6.00pm, only just got back an hour ago 8.00pm.
I dont know what it is but i get really down at weekends but didnt feel to bad today.
I think when work stacks up I feel smothered, What else worries me is when we take on new big jobs especially now we havent got any staff , just me and my trusty wife worked 14 hours today, When we got out of the vans we could hardly stand up straight and walked like John Wayne, we are back at work again at 6.00 am, even after today we are still behind.
We got a big job out of the way today which was worrying me, i feel a bit better, i thought i had grossly underpriced it but it worked out ok.
You guys have really given me a lift and I thank each and every one of you. I really appreciate your replys
Dai
Thanks, I think I was happier with the thrill of the chase when i first started out, just reading your posts keeps me smiling, i will pay you avisit one day, would love to have a pint with you.
Dave
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Dai
Thanks, I think I was happier with the thrill of the chase when i first started out, just reading your posts keeps me smiling, i will pay you avisit one day, would love to have a pint with you.
Dave.
Yes I would enjoy that, I must make an effort to go to the next show. Dai
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I just stumbled across this thread , and I just wanted to give my observations . I worked in a warehouse for ten years , and saw many managers/directors come and go ! The only one in all that time that got everyones respect , including mine was the most humble, approachable , down to earth prince of man called Roy . His secret . . . . . . He wanted your input and ideas no matter what your position in the company . When he saw that you had a good aproach to work , he would put you on every course available ,and really made you feel good about yourself . I used to work up to 70 hrs a week because I enjoyed my work ;D. Secret is to find a person with the right work ethic , and nurture them , and you will reap the rewards IMHO
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I just stumbled across this thread , and I just wanted to give my observations . I worked in a warehouse for ten years , and saw many managers/directors come and go ! The only one in all that time that got everyones respect , including mine was the most humble, approachable , down to earth prince of man called Roy . His secret . . . . . . He wanted your input and ideas no matter what your position in the company . When he saw that you had a good aproach to work , he would put you on every course available ,and really made you feel good about yourself . I used to work up to 70 hrs a week because I enjoyed my work ;D. Secret is to find a person with the right work ethic , and nurture them , and you will reap the rewards IMHO
So what is that secret then? :)
We have always acted like you say with staff, encouraging. including, listening and the like. Some of them reacted well to it, but most didn't!
Some took advantage of this style of management and we had to reign them in, which 9 times out of 10 meant they told us where we could shove it! I Hear what you are saying, but there is no magic formula to employing someone, just a lottery. ;D
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Thanks guys for your kind words
I got a lump in my throat reading your repys.
I went to bed at 12.00 last night and only tossed and turned for an hour so didnt have a bad sleep, woke up at 5.30am and got to work at 6.00pm, only just got back an hour ago 8.00pm.
I dont know what it is but i get really down at weekends but didnt feel to bad today.
I think when work stacks up I feel smothered, What else worries me is when we take on new big jobs especially now we havent got any staff , just me and my trusty wife worked 14 hours today, When we got out of the vans we could hardly stand up straight and walked like John Wayne, we are back at work again at 6.00 am, even after today we are still behind.
We got a big job out of the way today which was worrying me, i feel a bit better, i thought i had grossly underpriced it but it worked out ok.
You guys have really given me a lift and I thank each and every one of you. I really appreciate your replys
Dai
Thanks, I think I was happier with the thrill of the chase when i first started out, just reading your posts keeps me smiling, i will pay you avisit one day, would love to have a pint with you.
Dave
The thrill of the chase is good, but sometimes you just have to say no. Glad you feel better about things, but hey find something to occupy your mind at the weekends other than work.
So you are behind with work....explain to the custies, they will understand...and if they don't maybe they are just not worth having :)
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I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt ;D
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Hope things are improving Dave for you, i,m similar ,but, re-organising a lot now. Def. some good advice from everybody.
I,ve just been to the Lake District, slept about 8 hours every night, lovely. No work stress at all. Come back, & usual lad been off 2 1/2 weeks & he,s ill, I,m having to reschedule & re-book left right & centre. Just in office cancelling some jobs then off to start schools.
A good thread from Gordon about working or Managing, i,m looking at similar, but, just windows & me covering all other work inc. office. To many hats gives one big headache.
All the best, & hope you have the sunshine its p-----g it down here
Gary
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I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt ;D
But whose gonna be mine :'( :'( ;D
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I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt ;D
But whose gonna be mine :'( :'( ;D
We are all here for you Helen 8)
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I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt ;D
But whose gonna be mine :'( :'( ;D
We are all here for you Helen 8)
oooh ta ;D
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The difficult thing in our game, is not to let the employees know what we are charging.
When we work in an office or factory, we don't know what profits we are generating for our employer,
when we work for a window cleaning company, we know exactly how much we are worth.
I worked for a guy back in the 1950's, we knew what we were earning on domestic work, but he kept what he charged for commercial to himself.
Human nature being what it is, employees will do the sums and come up with the answers, they won't think about the actual costs associated with being an employer, they will only think I'm making this, and he only pays me that.
If you are lucky enough to find a really bright lad, he will pick your brains and store all the knowledge gained for the day he breaks away on his own.
Lets be honest, we would do the same.
I bet that the most successful window cleaners today, are the ones that served their time working for a successful window cleaner. They have learned the ropes where most of us have started out blind.
The only solution for employing in our game is to have an incentive scheme based on their productivity, again allowing for human nature, this has to be supervised to ensure all work is carried out to an acceptable standard. One way of achieving this could be to tell them that they won't get paid for any substandard work that needs to be redone. Of course this is no consolation if you lose the contract
. Ahh! the joys of being an employer
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I have read this thread with some interest some good advice
I had a spell of employing and none of them were worth the effort and the stress i thought it was just me not being able to handle the pressure and stress of employing and having to wet nurse grown men but it seems we are all the same
How i dealt with it was all wrong and it made me think twice about doing it all again but the advice in this thread has made me think again maybe start off with subbing work out first though and ease my way into employing this time
Dean
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The only solution for employing in our game is to have an incentive scheme based on their productivity, again allowing for human nature, this has to be supervised to ensure all work is carried out to an acceptable standard. One way of achieving this could be to tell them that they won't get paid for any substandard work that needs to be redone. Of course this is no consolation if you lose the contract
. Ahh! the joys of being an employer
Tried it, read the book, got the T-shirt and the so and so still wasn't happy. We advertised the position at £20k OTE. by month 10 he had surpassed that........ month 11 he asked for £40 more per week with no negotiating point (like he was going to set the rules!!!) we said no, but would look at the figures once he had done a full year....not good enough for him by end of month 11 he had gone.................now working for someone(not WC'ing) who pays £7.00 per hour. With us he was averaging out at £12.00 per hour....so not so bright afterall ;)
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Well done Helen
Never give in to them there are sooooo many more staff out there to choose from but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol
Another point on staff is you must stop seeing them as friends or that they are doing you a favour or worse still that you cannot manage without them.
The minute they take your money they are no longer friends they are employees, you can bet they don't see you as a friend only as the wage payer.
I was given a book on the subject of staff of how important they are as individuals and how to mentor them support them wipe their a**es for them sorry but basically look after your staff and they will look after you.
YEAH RIGHT
The systems you set within your business are the important issues, they stick and work for you forever not like the staff. Its not what skills the staff have, it is can they follow your systems.
Don't believe me ? how many different ways are there to clean a window? Just read this forum and there are hundreds of different styles.But as an employer there is only one way to clean a window ...your way.
If you can design a system of "how to" and show the staff how to follow this system you will be able to achieve the same standard of finish everytime, just as if you did it yourself.The individual person or style doesn't matter, all they have to do is follow the system and you will get the same results time and time again no matter who does it.
So it doesn't matter who the staff are or what they are like just as long as you can make them understand your system.
A people business no way, they don't matter they are just like a hammer is to a joiner, a tool to do your job.
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Well done Helen
Never give in to them there are sooooo many more staff out there to choose from but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol
Another point on staff is you must stop seeing them as friends or that they are doing you a favour or worse still that you cannot manage without them.
The minute they take your money they are no longer friends they are employees, you can bet they don't see you as a friend only as the wage payer.
I was given a book on the subject of staff of how important they are as individuals and how to mentor them support them wipe their a**es for them sorry but basically look after your staff and they will look after you.
YEAH RIGHT
The systems you set within your business are the important issues, they stick and work for you forever not like the staff. Its not what skills the staff have, it is can they follow your systems.
Don't believe me ? how many different ways are there to clean a window? Just read this forum and there are hundreds of different styles.But as an employer there is only one way to clean a window ...your way.
If you can design a system of "how to" and show the staff how to follow this system you will be able to achieve the same standard of finish everytime, just as if you did it yourself.The individual person or style doesn't matter, all they have to do is follow the system and you will get the same results time and time again no matter who does it.
So it doesn't matter who the staff are or what they are like just as long as you can make them understand your system.
A people business no way, they don't matter they are just like a hammer is to a joiner, a tool to do your job.
Although it can sound cold, I think you probably are right about setting some pretty firm boundaries with employees. It can help you in your business dealings but, in view of your past experiences, I believe it would be an effective way of maintaining good mental health too. Thinking of the processes rather than the humanity behind it can be a good protection. I don't know anything about running a business (other than as a sole trader) but I learnt plenty about mental health issues. If I had walked into a therapy room some years ago and been honest with a therapist about what was REALLY going on in my head, I think I might have been institutionalised for a while. How I managed to go so close to the edge without dropping off is still a puzzle to me when I look back. I was greatly concerned about all the things I would have to change if I made the one big change I needed. In the end I made that one big change and gradually the rest of the stuff fell into line around that. It would make more sense if I went into the details but I don't think that's the right thing to do on here. Suffice to say that the therapist asked my permission to have a student sit in on one of the sessions one day. I know this sounds pretty paranoid but I refused as I was concerned that he wanted a witness to the things I was saying (I refused).
That's mainly why I hold back on my business and choose to remain a sole trader. I have the intellectual capacity to expand my business, employ people and indeed, make a very large business out of it all. What I don't believe I have is the ability to cope with the stress. As they say, "Be careful what you wish for" (generic "you" that is).
Fortunately, it is possible to make some very decent money with WFP - even as a sole trader.
It's also why I'm glad to see Dave writing down a bit about his anxieties. It can be very cathartic.
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but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol[/color]
Nice way of thinking....love it ;D
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Well done Helen
Never give in to them there are sooooo many more staff out there to choose from but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol
Another point on staff is you must stop seeing them as friends or that they are doing you a favour or worse still that you cannot manage without them.
The minute they take your money they are no longer friends they are employees, you can bet they don't see you as a friend only as the wage payer.
I was given a book on the subject of staff of how important they are as individuals and how to mentor them support them wipe their a**es for them sorry but basically look after your staff and they will look after you.
YEAH RIGHT
The systems you set within your business are the important issues, they stick and work for you forever not like the staff. Its not what skills the staff have, it is can they follow your systems.
Don't believe me ? how many different ways are there to clean a window? Just read this forum and there are hundreds of different styles.But as an employer there is only one way to clean a window ...your way.
If you can design a system of "how to" and show the staff how to follow this system you will be able to achieve the same standard of finish everytime, just as if you did it yourself.The individual person or style doesn't matter, all they have to do is follow the system and you will get the same results time and time again no matter who does it.
So it doesn't matter who the staff are or what they are like just as long as you can make them understand your system.
A people business no way, they don't matter they are just like a hammer is to a joiner, a tool to do your job.
Although it can sound cold, I think you probably are right about setting some pretty firm boundaries with employees. It can help you in your business dealings but, in view of your past experiences, I believe it would be an effective way of maintaining good mental health too. Thinking of the processes rather than the humanity behind it can be a good protection. I don't know anything about running a business (other than as a sole trader) but I learnt plenty about mental health issues. If I had walked into a therapy room some years ago and been honest with a therapist about what was REALLY going on in my head, I think I might have been institutionalised for a while. How I managed to go so close to the edge without dropping off is still a puzzle to me when I look back. I was greatly concerned about all the things I would have to change if I made the one big change I needed. In the end I made that one big change and gradually the rest of the stuff fell into line around that. It would make more sense if I went into the details but I don't think that's the right thing to do on here. Suffice to say that the therapist asked my permission to have a student sit in on one of the sessions one day. I know this sounds pretty paranoid but I refused as I was concerned that he wanted a witness to the things I was saying (I refused).
That's mainly why I hold back on my business and choose to remain a sole trader. I have the intellectual capacity to expand my business, employ people and indeed, make a very large business out of it all. What I don't believe I have is the ability to cope with the stress. As they say, "Be careful what you wish for" (generic "you" that is).
Fortunately, it is possible to make some very decent money with WFP - even as a sole trader.
It's also why I'm glad to see Dave writing down a bit about his anxieties. It can be very cathartic.
Hi Shiner feel the fear and do it anyway does that sound familiar,get this book it`s by Susan Jeffers.From what you say you might know the author,i know what your on about and by the sounds of it you`ve come a long way brother. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Well done Helen
Never give in to them there are sooooo many more staff out there to choose from but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol
Another point on staff is you must stop seeing them as friends or that they are doing you a favour or worse still that you cannot manage without them.
The minute they take your money they are no longer friends they are employees, you can bet they don't see you as a friend only as the wage payer.
I was given a book on the subject of staff of how important they are as individuals and how to mentor them support them wipe their a**es for them sorry but basically look after your staff and they will look after you.
YEAH RIGHT
The systems you set within your business are the important issues, they stick and work for you forever not like the staff. Its not what skills the staff have, it is can they follow your systems.
Don't believe me ? how many different ways are there to clean a window? Just read this forum and there are hundreds of different styles.But as an employer there is only one way to clean a window ...your way.
If you can design a system of "how to" and show the staff how to follow this system you will be able to achieve the same standard of finish everytime, just as if you did it yourself.The individual person or style doesn't matter, all they have to do is follow the system and you will get the same results time and time again no matter who does it.
So it doesn't matter who the staff are or what they are like just as long as you can make them understand your system.
A people business no way, they don't matter they are just like a hammer is to a joiner, a tool to do your job.
Although it can sound cold, I think you probably are right about setting some pretty firm boundaries with employees. It can help you in your business dealings but, in view of your past experiences, I believe it would be an effective way of maintaining good mental health too. Thinking of the processes rather than the humanity behind it can be a good protection. I don't know anything about running a business (other than as a sole trader) but I learnt plenty about mental health issues. If I had walked into a therapy room some years ago and been honest with a therapist about what was REALLY going on in my head, I think I might have been institutionalised for a while. How I managed to go so close to the edge without dropping off is still a puzzle to me when I look back. I was greatly concerned about all the things I would have to change if I made the one big change I needed. In the end I made that one big change and gradually the rest of the stuff fell into line around that. It would make more sense if I went into the details but I don't think that's the right thing to do on here. Suffice to say that the therapist asked my permission to have a student sit in on one of the sessions one day. I know this sounds pretty paranoid but I refused as I was concerned that he wanted a witness to the things I was saying (I refused).
That's mainly why I hold back on my business and choose to remain a sole trader. I have the intellectual capacity to expand my business, employ people and indeed, make a very large business out of it all. What I don't believe I have is the ability to cope with the stress. As they say, "Be careful what you wish for" (generic "you" that is).
Fortunately, it is possible to make some very decent money with WFP - even as a sole trader.
It's also why I'm glad to see Dave writing down a bit about his anxieties. It can be very cathartic.
Hi Shiner feel the fear and do it anyway does that sound familiar,get this book it`s by Susan Jeffers.From what you say you might know the author,i know what your on about and by the sounds of it you`ve come a long way brother. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
I've done some pretty fearful things in my life already and I didn't need a book to motivate me to do them ;D - yet one of the most fearful things I did was to go into therapy. To eventually start accepting that wherever I was/am in my life is as a result of all my past decisions.
I have read part of that book you refer to (maybe even all of it) and from what I remember, I feel there should be a caveat or two attached to it. When I read a self development book, I take the view that what is in the pages is only the opinion of the author and that some of it will be appropriate for me and some of it won't. Even getting to that point was a milestone because it meant I was learning to think more for myself instead of believing everything I read or, even worse, believing someone else's interpretation of what I read.
One of my favourite little gems is a book called "Your Erroneous Zones" by a certain Wayne Dyer. Different philosophy from "Feel the Fear ....." but an excellent read just the same.