Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: JSMC on May 24, 2008, 01:07:02 pm
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my partners auld fella has been in the windows game mos tof his days and he keeps hearing horror stories from people regarding wfp. he says it isn't what it is all cracked up to be.
all his work is commecrcial , shops, pubs, resturants etc etc. Everyone in these places who have windows done ay home with wfp are complaining about some of their window cleaners and wfp.
asking him to do them trad but he doesn't bother with houses at all
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It's not WFP that's the problem, it's the user. Often enough you will find that they have been given bad advise from a supplier they bought their equipment from.
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yep wfp is cack waste of money
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I agree, it does a terrible job. Ive lost 80-90% of my work. Im going down the drains, the baliffs coming next week, youve got to help guys.....could somebody show me how to do it right?? or is it just like this? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Its the user, NOT, I repeat NOT wfp to blame. Even with the worst wfp tools and a really cheap brush its possible to have a spotless finish, Luke
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i agree wfp is rubbish
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The problem is that it is so easy to start up. No experience at all, probably nobody to show them how to do it properly so they are going to have to learn by their mistakes. Unfortunately it is these mistakes giving WFP a bad name.
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WFP has change the way we all work, and most agree its a dame good tool and one of the best business decisions you can make
On the other hand! it does take time to master this new way of doing things, if you do start lost customers then you learn fast how to use it, if not you have to be some fool
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Inexperienced guys who come on here, and read that a 3 bed semi can be done properly in 10 mins,
This is a recipe for bad workmanship in my opinion.
Over the years I have seen some appalling trad work too.
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I wonder if this forum had been available back in the 50s would we have been arguing about using chamois and scrims versus these new-fangled squeegees.
"I tried using a squeegee once and it left streaks everywhere ..."
"You can't clean a window properly by scraping off the water. You have to wipe it off and then polish the glass ..."
etc.
Still, it gives us something to argue about, even if the arguments are pretty pointless.
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If you really want to be quick I say that you should try and save your time elsewhere ie. not by skimping on the actual cleaning. Thre are quite a few ways you can do this:
Planning your work route out to be as effective as possible
Having a good brush - my Tucker is saving me ALOT of time
A pole that extends quickly
Reeling in hose quickly
Getting to know a property so you dont get snagged on things
Not spenind too long on lunch
Physically moving quickly
There are lots of ways to save time without skimping on your quality of cleaning, Luke
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always said there is a place for wfp, but only commercial and hard to reach residential, not every window or frame is suited to wfp so i mostly trad residential and as much commercial as i can, i think it has its place in window cleaning but you cant beat a squeegee then detail with a microfibre cloth finish, and i have proved this so many times to my employees who want to pole bungalows even (lazy sods!) but then again i am old school and you cant beat squeegee and i use this method whenever i can as i can guarantee spotless windows
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Wfp is absolute cack - personally I wouldn't even wash windows with it.
If anyone has stupidly gone to wfp in the North West Bristol area and has wfp window cleaning work which they will soon lose, you might as well hand it to me and I will look after it for you. (Because I'm soooooo kind and thoughtful)
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Inexperienced guys who come on here, and read that a 3 bed semi can be done properly in 10 mins,
This is a recipe for bad workmanship in my opinion.
Over the years I have seen some appalling trad work too.
But I reckon it can be done properly in 10 minutes. This is only under ideal conditions though by someone who is well organised and I certainly wouldn't want to sustain such a pace for hours on end.
Just my view.
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its people just starting out with wfp and watching videos of groundhod doing his house. Dont get me wrong , I'm not knocking him for being so quick, its taken foar years of wfp to get them that clean its the newbies not reading the whole thread
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One day you will all wake up and say wfp whats that! ;D thats why I dont bother! would not waste my money!or yours! at the end of the day your cleaning windows for god sake! why spend ££££££££££££ on it to get spots! ::) my opinion your just making other people rich! :o
I have been asked to do a TV program where I will speak my mind!I will say no more!
and why because no one pays me to say what I suppose to say,I am free!
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hey! we havent all got tornados for arms ;D
i need all the help i can get ;D
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I agree with aztec wfp doesn't work on every job ,especially wooden frames with crap paint. I have to trad severa of my jobs for that very reason
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I hope no one else gets wfp as Im making a killing on bad painted frames and all sorts. Its to do with the user not the wfp. I have given up one job in two years and that was crittle aluminum. The rest have been fine even flakey paint. If it looks like trouble it takes more time so charge accordingly.
I used to answer loads of questions from the local window cleaners but now if they think its rubbish I say whatever, hay ho...don't listen to me, if you think its crap don't buy it and leave me to clean up... LOL
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I really think people will go back towards Trad,why this country sucks right now.no one has got money to blow!so the cheapest way to clean windows is Trad! step in more window cleaners!again
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I really think people will go back towards Trad,why this country sucks right now.no one has got money to blow!so the cheapest way to clean windows is Trad! step in more window cleaners!again
we're not all as fast as you though terry!! lol
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I hope no one else gets wfp as Im making a killing on bad painted frames and all sorts. Its to do with the user not the wfp. I have given up one job in two years and that was crittle aluminum. The rest have been fine even flakey paint. If it looks like trouble it takes more time so charge accordingly.
I used to answer loads of questions from the local window cleaners but now if they think its rubbish I say whatever, hay ho...don't listen to me, if you think its crap don't buy it and leave me to clean up... LOL
Hi Kev,
It's so nice when there's no competition. Good job we don't work the same areas, lol
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I hope no one else gets wfp as Im making a killing on bad painted frames and all sorts. Its to do with the user not the wfp. I have given up one job in two years and that was crittle aluminum. The rest have been fine even flakey paint. If it looks like trouble it takes more time so charge accordingly.
I used to answer loads of questions from the local window cleaners but now if they think its rubbish I say whatever, hay ho...don't listen to me, if you think its crap don't buy it and leave me to clean up... LOL
agree 100% ,nearly all come good in the end and if not who cares,dump em and find some more that do,as for everyone going back to trad ??? ??? ::) ::) somehow i think not
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If you had to go back to trad would you? I know I would concentrate on other areas of my business. I'm not risking my life everyday again for peanuts... the worlds moved on and so have I ;)
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If you had to go back to trad would you? I know I would concentrate on other areas of my business. I'm not risking my life everyday again for peanuts... the worlds moved on and so have I ;)
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well said i agree with those words all the way.
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It's not WFP that's the problem, it's the user. Often enough you will find that they have been given bad advise from a supplier they bought their equipment from.
Too true, & sold poor eqiupment too. Imagine a total newbie trying to clean windows with a 18ft extender cheese pole + flocked oval vikan :o He's handicapped before he even starts. I understand the suppliers side, they want to be competetive on a start up package but the result is a poorly equiped w/c'er who doesn't know any better. ::)
Tony
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JSMC,
It was me I started those rumours 10 years ago when I saw the light.
Working well aint they ;D
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how big of a wooden spoon you got mr brimble :P
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:o Wow such a lot of views...
I use wfp now my windows cleaning is no way as good as trad!
But then I prided myself on All Frames, Doors & Sills.
I used a sponge/scourer for tricky bit, I scrubbed the sills... ::)
I now do a very good job with wfp I am happy my customers are happy...
whats the prob???
It's faster it's safer...ITS GREAT ;D
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:o Wow such a lot of views...
I use wfp now my windows cleaning is no way as good as trad!
But then I prided myself on All Frames, Doors & Sills.
I used a sponge/scourer for tricky bit, I scrubbed the sills... ::)
I now do a very good job with wfp I am happy my customers are happy...
whats the prob???
It's faster it's safer...ITS GREAT ;D
I cant see how unless you are doing something wrong you think trad is better.
I did trad for years still do it now, but wfp on most gives a better clean and far better shine if done correctly.
Ian
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im just in the process of converting my round and my selling point to my customers is... if it saves me from falling off the ladder its the only way... the customers cant argue with that and if they do they can kiss I disagree.... ive been converting now for 4 weeks done some second cleans which are hundred times better than the 1st and i used to hate going to work wondering if this could be a fall day ( we have all thought it) horrible thought but a real one... im converting, happy with my second cleans and unless i start loosin ALL of my customers wont be going back...
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On the other thread the size and value of the guys round mean't he had to be earning 800pw. When this was put to him he nearly cackked himself. He didn't know anybody who earned that type of money.
Enough said.
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On the other thread the size and value of the guys round mean't he had to be earning 800pw. When this was put to him he nearly cackked himself. He didn't know anybody who earned that type of money.
Enough said.
your point
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On the other thread the size and value of the guys round mean't he had to be earning 800pw. When this was put to him he nearly cackked himself. He didn't know anybody who earned that type of money.
Enough said.
i know exactly how much i earn you looooooooser.. you dont have to tell me and yes my bum fell out when you put it too me
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A couple of trad cleaners came to talk to a mate of mine. Well I say talk more like goad him how they thought wfp was rubbish and how they where taking work off wf cleaners and how they where going to take over the town. ::)
They asked him why he used it and his answer was he liked getting paid for doing a rubbish job and that all his customers liked the poor work he did and where happy to pay good money to be ripped off!
He also said that he enjoyed spending money on equipment that was useless and over rated. ;D
He's been window cleaning for 25 years and water fed for 5 years. Ive been cleaning windows for 21 years and water fed for 4 years. Shock, horror! :o Some jobs do come up better with trad. :o
But as a rule if you do the job right with water fed the results are as good if not better.
So many of my customers are saying what a great job it does and recomending me to others
that I'm convinced that if your not getting good results with wfp then either your water tds is poor or your technique is wrong. Most modern windows clean fine with wfp. Fact.
If your looking for a reasons not to go water fed then I'm sure you can find some.
However the reasons to go water fed far, far exceed the negative.
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A couple of trad cleaners came to talk to a mate of mine. Well I say talk more like goad him how they thought wfp was rubbish and how they where taking work off wf cleaners and how they where going to take over the town. ::)
They asked him why he used it and his answer was he liked getting paid for doing a rubbish job and that all his customers liked the poor work he did and where happy to pay good money to be ripped off!
He also said that he enjoyed spending money on equipment that was useless and over rated. ;D
He's been window cleaning for 25 years and water fed for 5 years. Ive been cleaning windows for 21 years and water fed for 4 years. Shock, horror! :o Some jobs do come up better with trad. :o
But as a rule if you do the job right with water fed the results are as good if not better.
So many of my customers are saying what a great job it does and recomending me to others
that I'm convinced that if your not getting good results with wfp then either your water tds is poor or your technique is wrong. Most modern windows clean fine with wfp. Fact.
If your looking for a reasons not to go water fed then I'm sure you can find some.
However the reasons to go water fed far, far exceed the negative.
agreed.... im just wondering about what will happen in winter and if things will go to crap by freezing up..
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I put a radiator in the back of my van at night if its going to freeze.
Not had too many problems with freezing in 4 years.
Water freezes for trad window cleaning as well but I'd rather use wfp in the winter that risk it up a ladder in the ice. ;)
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i know first hand it freezes trad but i was worrying about when wfp hits the window
what happens
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It just freezes Kris.
Regards
Andrew
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is there anything you can add to the water
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Why work when it is too cold. I would rather not have a ladder slide on ice
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spikes cut throught the ice, i need to work in cold weather cant afford not too....
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On the other thread the size and value of the guys round mean't he had to be earning 800pw. When this was put to him he nearly cackked himself. He didn't know anybody who earned that type of money.
Enough said.
Yeah Discount i`ve read i few of his threads and they don`t add up at all,Bull*****er come to mind if you ask me.
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thats me, what can i say..... you tell me exactly what dosnt add up.. and for what reason i would have too lie
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thats me, what can i say..... you tell me exactly what dosnt add up.. and for what reason i would have too lie
Dont worry about it Kris, you carry on.
NWH is a harsh/straight ot the point guy but clued up IMo, discount (man of many names on here ay Clive) new to it, has the enthusiasm for marketing has a auto hose winder(not seen yet :( )
Me= direct blunt always willing to help also design websites for window cleaners.
Post away
Ian
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Kris,
I.m sorry if I peed you off. I wasn't meaning to dig.I like to argue, but not to fall out with people.
If i'm allowed to comment without lighting the blue touch paper again, a van mount carries more water than a trolley, and eats the work. (it does cost more, but you earn more)
ww fair summary.
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jelousy NWH, cheers mate you have made me appreciate what i have got a hell of a lot more now because i havent been on these forums long and thought my round was just a normal window cleaning round, maybe a bit big but i didnt think it was that big till now, the only other difference with me and other wc on here is they all seem to charge a lot bigger prices than me, well thats the way it seems anyway... anyway nwh and discount have fun with you 50 houses...
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Kris,
I.m sorry if I peed you off. I wasn't meaning to dig.I like to argue, but not to fall out with people.
If i'm allowed to comment without lighting the blue touch paper again, a van mount carries more water than a trolley, and eats the work. (it does cost more, but you earn more)
ww fair summary.
whats this got to do with anything, i have converted about 70% of my work one of us does tops wfp and the other bottoms trad about a barrel an hour ( i havnt got a clue what your getting at and why im telling you this)
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jelousy NWH, cheers mate you have made me appreciate what i have got a hell of a lot more now because i havent been on these forums long and thought my round was just a normal window cleaning round, maybe a bit big but i didnt think it was that big till now, the only other difference with me and other wc on here is they all seem to charge a lot bigger prices than me, well thats the way it seems anyway... anyway nwh and discount have fun with you 50 houses...
I think not my freind,and your first thought was right by the way you do have a normal round.
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ok then so explain why i would need to bullpoop about a normal round you looooooosed :'(
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ok then so explain why i would need to bullpoop about a normal round you looooooosed :'(
I didn`t understand your last post i`m afraid. ??? ??? ???
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sorry tabbed the d instead of r on the keyboard ill repeat
LOOOOOOOSER
now answer my question you suggested im a bull sh**** now explain why i would need to do so about a normal window cleaning round and when you have done so go away and stop wasting my time.....
im trying to watch Lost..
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oh and before you go tell me pls what dosnt add up......
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As i saw it you were given an opinion on the value of your round but you baulked at it. If the work is £15ph it has very little value.
My point about the van mount is that it carries more water. I use a very high flow and get through about 500l a day.
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oh and before you go tell me pls what dosnt add up......
In 1 of your posts you say you didn`t know anyone who earn`t £800 a week,how long have you been window cleaning then if you didn`t know that was acheivable.
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Kris,
I.m sorry if I peed you off. I wasn't meaning to dig.I like to argue, but not to fall out with people.
If i'm allowed to comment without lighting the blue touch paper again, a van mount carries more water than a trolley, and eats the work. (it does cost more, but you earn more)
ww fair summary.
Oooo sorry Kris xxxxxx,get a grip man. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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i do earn £800 a week and you miss understood the meaning to my post, the guy implied that £800 p/week isnt great and i replied as if to say well i dont know many people who earn that (i think its good) and i do earn 800 p/week give or take now what else does not add up..
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:o Wow such a lot of views...
I use wfp now my windows cleaning is no way as good as trad!
But then I prided myself on All Frames, Doors & Sills.
I used a sponge/scourer for tricky bit, I scrubbed the sills... ::)
I now do a very good job with wfp I am happy my customers are happy...
whats the prob???
It's faster it's safer...ITS GREAT ;D
I cant see how unless you are doing something wrong you think trad is better.
I did trad for years still do it now, but wfp on most gives a better clean and far better shine if done correctly.
Ian
Sorry to get back to the tread..... ::)
Sorry I should have explained more fully...
I used to clean the frame with a sponge/scourer and bring the frames up much cleaner... :D
Something the brush simply wont do to the same standards :P
I do an excellent job of cleaning the window with the wfp system and my customers will vouch for that! :)
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:o Wow such a lot of views...
I use wfp now my windows cleaning is no way as good as trad!
But then I prided myself on All Frames, Doors & Sills.
I used a sponge/scourer for tricky bit, I scrubbed the sills... ::)
I now do a very good job with wfp I am happy my customers are happy...
whats the prob???
It's faster it's safer...ITS GREAT ;D
I cant see how unless you are doing something wrong you think trad is better.
I did trad for years still do it now, but wfp on most gives a better clean and far better shine if done correctly.
Ian
Sorry to get back to the tread..... ::)
Sorry I should have explained more fully...
I used to clean the frame with a sponge/scourer and bring the frames up much cleaner... :D
Something the brush simply wont do to the same standards :P
I do an excellent job of cleaning the window with the wfp system and my customers will vouch for that! :)
I`m sure you do an excelent job but this kind of quality is not required all the time,we have a WC near to us that won`t leave the job until he has every bit of grit and dirt out from all cracks and crevices.He works trad and is hell bent on doing this on all his jobs,everytime i see him he`s banging on about having no money and feels like he`s working for nothing,i`m not suggesting your in the same position but getting a scouring pad out and sponge is going a little to far in my view.
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As i saw it you were given an opinion on the value of your round but you baulked at it. If the work is £15ph it has very little value.
My point about the van mount is that it carries more water. I use a very high flow and get through about 500l a day.
i think thats a lot of water were using 8 barrels a day just tops though and that is only if we use the pole all day which at the moment that is not the case, but after june when ive finished paying for wedding im going to invest in a van mount because as im using the trolley im seeing the benefits of a van mount (i couldnt before)..
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Ideal you can't beat a machine. It does the job better than you and it does it a lot faster. On your best day and on your favourite job your work wouldn't stand scrutiny against a hot system applied almost casually.
Good thinking Kris, keep an open mind .Some become as defensive about barrels as they do about trad.
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i dont mind the barrel thing because this might sound mad but there was 3 of us over a month ago trad and the work load was absolutely rediculous to a dangerous point just to get the days target done, now were down to 2 and going wfp (trolley) everything has really calmed down and changing a barrel is a just like a little break...
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As i saw it you were given an opinion on the value of your round but you baulked at it. If the work is £15ph it has very little value.
My point about the van mount is that it carries more water. I use a very high flow and get through about 500l a day.
i think thats a lot of water were using 8 barrels a day just tops though and that is only if we use the pole all day which at the moment that is not the case, but after june when ive finished paying for wedding im going to invest in a van mount because as im using the trolley im seeing the benefits of a van mount (i couldnt before)..
barrels are a total night mare from a van mount I have done this, how people cope with this hassle I dont know.
Fair play to them but to be honest I would have given up wfp if it carried on, that got new engine was sorted quick on the van, just need to get another asap so have to one road all the time instead of 2man van mount and car not good. but worked from a a time
Costly mistake I made there tHAT i HAVE LEARNT FROM.
Ian
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but if your so used to the van mount i could imagine that going too a trolley would be quite annoying, im finding it quit good now with the trolley first week i thought what the hell am i doing but now its all good, i will be investing in a van mount in the next few months though.....
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:o Some jobs do come up better with trad. :o
But as a rule if you do the job right with water fed the results are as good if not better.
So many of my customers are saying what a great job it does and recomending me to others
that I'm convinced that if your not getting good results with wfp then either your water tds is poor or your technique is wrong. Most modern windows clean fine with wfp. Fact.
If your looking for a reasons not to go water fed then I'm sure you can find some.
However the reasons to go water fed far, far exceed the negative.
I agree. I think that is the plain truth fact, none of that in a dreamworld making wfp sound better than it is poo. Also I think most people like to have a someone with a professional looking tool that cleans the whole window even if it is not always 100% spotless, that doesnt leave holes in their lawn or marks on their paintwork. At the end of the day most people just like to know that their windows are being cleaned properly. Most people will overlook the odd smear or spotting - squeegees dont leave the window 100% spotless or streakless, the customer usually overlooks margins, the odd streak and soap left on the frames and sills dont they?
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its not the tools its the person and you have always heard horror stories about traditional cleaners . i,ve never heard about a wfp falling through the roof and doing a runner or putting their ladders straight through our window.
their are bad window cleaners out there whatever they use and unfortunately some have also given wfp a bad name just like they did traditional which wasn,t fair on either.
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Talking about mistakes WW i started with a trailer. I already had the trailer so i though i was being smart jumping into wfp for just about 2k.
I already had a ducato but that was always full with other biz. I would go sort 1st biz out and unload then go home for wc job. But then I had to go in garage and put all wc stuff on and then take it all off before I went in the evening to retrieve biz one.
So the idea was, i could come home, hitch up and go. The idea was a bad one, the trailer was too heavy, and I often had to disconnect it on drives and cul de sacs to turn round. The parking footprint needed to get it in any where was quite large so parking across other neighbours drive way frionts etc was a problem. The tank alone was 400l and then there was hose, di etc, and the weight of the trailer.
This is where I got to hate the physical work, especially lifting my hose in and out of the trailer every job.
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i know what a lot are saying about trolleys and the hassle of filling barrels but we use a van mount but also have a trolley aswell because some jobs it is easier to take the trolley rather than pull out 100 metres of hose put cones in pedestrian areas and then get tangled up in all sorts of shrubs, true in most cases van mount is best but trolleys do have certain advantages.
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i know what a lot are saying about trolleys and the hassle of filling barrels but we use a van mount but also have a trolley aswell because some jobs it is easier to take the trolley rather than pull out 100 metres of hose put cones in pedestrian areas and then get tangled up in all sorts of shrubs, true in most cases van mount is best but trolleys do have certain advantages.
I agree, I have always had a van mount, but on a few jobs, I use a backpack / trolley because routing hoses would be a real hassle. Trolleys really do come into their own in certain circumstances. The though of using it all day would be a massive no no though ;)
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Ive got an APS Trolley and a Sureflo Backpack and carry 10 x 25 litre containers in my van.
Some times pulling the trolley about can be a pain but usually its a breeze.
Thing is most of my residential work is compact semis, some on busy main roads. Having loads of hose trailing on footpaths would be a hazzard and backing a van up 20 drives a day would be as much of a pain as lugging the trolley.
On a few of my commercial jobs a van mount would be nice but not essencial as I have 50metres of mini bore on my trolley. A lot of my work is away from the parking area so again a van mount would be of no real advantage.
Thats not to say when I change my van I wont go for a van mount then. But I'm sure I will still use my trolley as much.
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Thats not to say when I change my van I wont go for a van mount then. But I'm sure I will still use my trolley as much.
Trust me you wont Simon ;)