Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dai on May 18, 2008, 09:28:28 pm
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So, you think you have a decent round, and your making a good living, then out of the blue something happens to change the way you feel about your business, and your competence to run that business.
I was talking to a young guy the other day, he started working for a local window cleaner 8 years ago WFP.
Now this guy had gone into WFP early, and has really cleaned up with commercial work.
Four years ago this young lad decides to go on his own, as they do.
In four years he has built his round mainly commercial, and as a sole trader can no longer defer going VAT registered.
This guy was still in school when I started, and he is already earning more than double my income and working less hours. He also complained that some new guy had been canvassing some of his contracts and under cutting his prices.
So what's wrong with honest competition? It defies common sense and every business principle, to just sit back and think that because someone gets in first he can charge what ever he likes, and it is somehow unethical for some body else to compete with him.
If some guy is earning over 60k as a sole trader, I for one would be quite happy to undercut him by 30%.
This young guy is a really nice bloke and good luck to him, but I really think that that this never undercut ethic is misguided and needs kicking into touch.
OK, I know my pride has had a good kicking and this guy proves that he is a better business man than I could ever be. Subconsciously, I have put limitations on my self, I realise that now.
My advice to you young guys is get yourself es on the council list, start writing letters to management companies, that's how this young guy started. Dai
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Slightly off topic... But I wish I had started out when I was younger - I wasted 10 years working in IT!
If I had started window cleaning when I was 18 I would be laughing by now!
Back on topic... There is nothing wrong with healthy competition. But, just undercutting to get someone elses work is below the belt I think.
Andy
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Undercutting is competition, why window cleaners have such a problem with it is beyond me.
I know of a very large company (I worked for them for a long time at management level) who got wind of its main competitor having a few problems, it didn't offer them advice or some customers, it dropped its prices across the board and put the other company out of business, only to purchase it whole from the receivers.
Its business, not a popularity contest.
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;D All's fair in Love and War ;D
Business as well, unfortunately ! ::)
I however don't do it and never have... but then there is plenty of work around here. :)
if it were different maybe I would... Like you say it's business! :-\
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on commercial yes nothing wrong with undercutting but residentual there is no need!
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What do you mean by council list dai?
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i dont really understand what "undercutting"is
i give my price for a job
its the price I want
nowt to do with anyone else ::)
i would not quote cheap just cos i think it might get me the job
as for all this "you cant undercut me" crap
i can do what i want
i may undercut some
but i am usually dearer than most in my area
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its easy, quote for a job at your priceand if you get it because your cheaper- fair enough. Go to quote, but before giving a price you ask how much they're paying and go under it, in my book just not on and those type of people should be classed as scum
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those type of people will be back indoors come october :D ;D
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but theyve already taken the job off you and you then have to take time out to find other work to cover what you alread had
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being cheaper is one thing. That may be due to you beigng able to do the work in a time that still allows you achieve a good hourly rate. But knowingly undercutting doesn't really do anyone any favours because prices go up on everything. Window cleaning shouldn't be the exception to that rule.
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I have never undercut anyone as I have never needed to, I pick up jobs all the time were I am actually more expensive than the customers previous or sometimes their current window cleaner!! Having said that if things started to get really competitive and I needed to do it to get work, then sure I'd undercut!!!
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most of the under cuters on dom hear to day gone to morow ither cant get enuth work in 6 munths so pak in or beer muny & drugs mony iv sean the later a good fue times not onley that but to case the jont , iv never under cut eny body noingley , im not in to com so can not coment on that side of it
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most of the under cuters on dom hear to day gone to morow ither cant get enuth work in 6 munths so pak in or beer muny & drugs mony iv sean the later a good fue times not onley that but to case the jont , iv never under cut eny body noingley , im not in to com so can not coment on that side of it
I get loads of telephone calls from people asking for window cleaning service ! Many havnt had a wc for ages , when I quote for job , they comment on how dear price is compared to previous wc . A lot quote too low , do the job a few times , then vanish ! I have seen way too many people working ridiculous hours , just because they price too cheap . If you are confident , do a proffesional job , are regular then you shoudnt IMHO underprice ;D
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If you're charging silly money then you're leaving yourself wide open to be undercut by somebody else who'll charge something more realistic.
If you're charging a tenner for a job and somebody comes along and offers to do it for £9 and the customer says "yes" then you're well shot of her IMO.
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If you have inside knowledge of a contract and then undercut by a % just to get the job then that is wrong in my opinion, on large contracts I'm pretty sure it's against fair trading laws.
If however you turn up to quote and put in your price and it is cheaper than the other wc but you didn't know how much he was charging, well thats different.
Simon.
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Is there any need for sole traders to undercut ?
There are millions of windows out there, just find the ones that pay you well.
I wouldnt like to do a job where i knew the previous guy got x amount more, it would do my head in.
Who want to be the cheapest i dont.
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The real thing we don't like here is the word undercut :)
Undercut in my book means "to know what the other business/person is charging and DELIBERATELY go lower to get the job" This is not necessary.
a) why KNOWINGLY do a job for lower than what the customer is already paying? doesn't make sense!
b)when it happens to you, you will be the first to complain. ;D
c) "live by the sword you die by the sword"
Healthy competition is fine, we all need it to keep us on our toes and be competitive. By operating like this we know we are in the right price range for our area. The customers get used to it and when they are offered a much lower price the majority then know that something is not quite right with the lower price mob ;D
Just recently we have had the fairweather mob round, offering their services and then asking what price the custie already pays and then undercutting by a couple of quid or whatever. Our custies have let us know and have said they would rather stay with what they know.Yes we have lost one, but if she is swayed by that price that was given to her then I am glad she is gone. and to be honest it may get cleaned once, but then the chap won't go back. He can't afford to work at that cheap rate and from where he is from, travel costs will make that area non C/E for him.
Again have said it before, don't cheese off local businesses, you juts don't know when you may need to ask for help.
Medium or larger companies can go for the lower price ranges as the will work on "volume" work and can easily spread new work amongst exisiting staff
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I can't comment on commercial, as I don't have any, but deliberately undercutting on residential is a mugs game.
You run the risk of lowering the prices in the whole area and the only winners are the customers.
I quote the price I want and don't go lower. I might ask the previous window cleaner's price, but it doesn't affect what I want from a job.
Unfortunately, the beer brigade are going to be around sometimes. If any customers want to have them instead they are welcome to change, but I won't go back. Well, perhaps I would with a big price increase! ;D
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but I won't go back. Well, perhaps I would with a big price increase! ;D
I don't. If I get dropped or drop a customer, I don't go back because something didn't work and there's absolutely no reason why it would work 2nd time around.
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Entirely different business, but on the same subject,I work within the coach industry,and every July all the operators put their tender in for the school contracts to the county council. There is 1 company that will undercut every operator to win contracts, last year I discovered they were charging £40-50 less per day than the average price. As a result of this some ops lost contracts and had to make redundancies, ye that's business but this is taking the p***, like alot of you say,knowingly charging less than another cleaner is sneaky.
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but I won't go back. Well, perhaps I would with a big price increase! ;D
I don't. If I get dropped or drop a customer, I don't go back because something didn't work and there's absolutely no reason why it would work 2nd time around.
Only said tongue in cheek Simon. You are right, it probably wouldn't work second time around. :)
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Stellios knew what he was doing with Easyjet and so do Ryanair, They cut costs, charged less and most of us will use their services.
Guys who got in early with WFP and 60ft poles made an absolute killing, they charge inflated prices because they could, they went in cheaper than trad guys using cherry pickers.
A lot of this type of customers are happy because they are paying less than they were.
If one guy is earning a grand and a half per week, there will be another quite happy to earn a grand, move along piggy, I want to get my snout into the trough.
I am not talking about undercutting some guy who is doing council houses at £6 a go, [this happened to me], I am talking about sole trading window cleaners that have had to go V.A.T registered.
I can see nothing wrong whatsoever in contacting large hotels or businesses, and requesting that they allow you to quote when their present window cleaning contract is up for renewal. Churchill, Northwich union, and a host of other insurance companies do that every time My insurance is due.
There are a lot of new guys on the block looking for work for their new 60ft poles, the big guys need to be looking over their shoulders. Dai
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Hi
Nothing as long as we don't start driving the prices to low or we will all be working for nowt. we are all in it to make a few bob. i never undercut on purpose, i put my price in and stick to it. In fact i normally over price things then knock money of if the job takes less time than expected but only when i have done the job a couple of times.
Tom