Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ronnie paton on May 14, 2008, 11:20:40 pm
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my employee has told me im doing the window the long way by lifting the pole off glass to rinse, iv tried leaving on but they dont come up great but he says its cause i use pencil jets insted of fans???
is this true????????
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Naw... I'm with you Ronnie on this, we rinse off the glass... much better IMO ;D
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..........im so intrigued though has he said it worked ans tons faster which it would be and well time is money ;)
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You said it in your first post Ronnie, they wont come up as good... you do a better job than your employee I bet .... no competition ... ;D
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lots of people on here rinse on the glass....
i rinse off !
can you be sure nothing is on the brush?
can you be sure a brush streak is not being left... no
so its better to be safe knowing its pure water alone rinsing the glass....
and why take a chance worrying when its so easy to pull the brush back?
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.....i think i do but he may not think so and he has 16 years experience more than thee ......im prob right ;D
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thanks gazza
i dont think it is easy pulling the brush off its not good for your body snd st 40ft + its real hard work.
i agree with the bits on the brush and stuff but some experienced people do brush on the glass rinsing.....so may be its just about technique?
fan jets over the brush may be a solution but again good technique will be needed..............aarggh i dont bloody know :(
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You are right Ronnie...... thats why he is an employee & your his boss....he may have 16yrs, but like Gazza says why rinse on the glass...makes no sense IMO
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it is easy ronnie.... maybe your pole is the thing that needs replacing. the old ionics 40ft are are to hold at 40ft rinsing.... but i still do it when needed.... but the new poles are are breeze....
rinsing on with the right technique are sworn by alot of people.... but i like to rinse properly.
after all , would you rinse the dishes with the dishcloth.
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sorry dale but course it makes sense it would be easier(if worked) less lifting a pole un a un authorised position and would be quicker
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it is easy?? my poles are light but its not easy, im a young strong fit lad go gym 3 times a week but it still pulls and strains muscles!
easy would be to rinse on the glass do you not think but like we all seem to agree we are unsure it works
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can you be sure at 40 ft ronnie. ... rinse off and sleep easy its not hard.... it also becomes the norm even at bad angles after a while..... and think of the juicy muscles in your arms.
cmon ronnie..... lets do the job right.... how long has he being wfp... 16 years ? hmmmmmmmmm ,,, your the man not him..... tell him to do it right ;)
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well i dis agree it is hard very hard sometimes and who says what is the right way??
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ronnie, i have just taught my new guy to rinse off, ... he said over a con roof its hard....
i showed him how to do it.
pull the pole back ever so slightly.. position your body so it does not hurt anywhere...
even at full stretch from the side of a conservatory.
make the pole work for you...
sometimes i rest it between my legs... or hold it above my head at an angle....
it takes seconds.
you are experienced enough to know to use technique to take the stran.
;)... i enjoy the rinse bit... as the thing is almost done.
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well i dis agree it is hard very hard sometimes and who says what is the right way??
well you asked ronnie... rinsining is rinsing, pure and simple.... i am not as young as you maybe.. but strong and fit... and rinsing glass is easy compared to the big picture.
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With an over the brush fan spray you don't have any of the problems that you are experiencing and can leave the brush on the glass.
Some feel that the fan sprays catch the top of the brickwork and that you cannot direct the spray as well - technique, technique and technique!!
Rob ;D
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You can rinse on the glass quite easily just by having a healthy flow rate and tilting the brush slightly while zig zagging down the window.
If net curtains are up at the window then even better.
I mostly rinse off the glass on downstairs windows though. Especially the kitchen and any other window without net curtains or the like.
I always run my fingers through the brush after each job to clear any debris or flakey paint.
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With an over the brush fan spray you don't have any of the problems that you are experiencing and can leave the brush on the glass.
Some feel that the fan sprays catch the top of the brickwork and that you cannot direct the spray as well - technique, technique and technique!!
Rob ;D
theres another good opinion Ronnie.....technique is the key....
but i still like to rinse my dishes without a cloth lol.
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You can rinse on the glass quite easily just by having a healthy flow rate and tilting the brush slightly while zig zagging down the window.
If net curtains are up at the window then even better.
I mostly rinse off the glass on downstairs windows though. Especially the kitchen and any other window without net curtains or the like.
I always run my fingers through the brush after each job to clear any debris or flakey paint.
net curtains....? they pull back you know.... thats like leaving muck on a black car...
if you doing the job it has to be done right..
this is a typical example of why you should rinse off the glass.... hiding your dirt behind net curtains is certainly not my way of promoting my business.... so this guy is so unsure of rinsing on the glass , he feels comfortable with net curtains......
net curtains or not... the windows should be immaculate..
why have doubts.
rinse off.
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I always rinse off as well, I have experimented with rinsing on the glass, but have found that the finish is not as good as when you rinse off! ;)
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You can rinse on the glass quite easily just by having a healthy flow rate and tilting the brush slightly while zig zagging down the window.
If net curtains are up at the window then even better.
I mostly rinse off the glass on downstairs windows though. Especially the kitchen and any other window without net curtains or the like.
I always run my fingers through the brush after each job to clear any debris or flakey paint.
net curtains....? they pull back you know.... thats like leaving muck on a black car...
if you doing the job it has to be done right..
this is a typical example of why you should rinse off the glass.... hiding your dirt behind net curtains is certainly not my way of promoting my business.... so this guy is so unsure of rinsing on the glass , he feels comfortable with net curtains......
net curtains or not... the windows should be immaculate..
why have doubts.
rinse off.
There's so many assumptions in that reply gazza.
I don't hide dirt behind net curtains. Who said that? Apart from you! ::)
Just because you don't do something does that make your way right? I don't think so because you can't / don't rinse off the glass. But you will be able to one day with more experience of the jobs you are working on.
There are jobs that i rinse on and jobs that i rinse off. Making an assumption that rinsing on the glass means a dirty window is naive.
The only reason i mentioned net curtains is cos when they aren't up at a window its because (with the majority of my customers anyway) the owners spend more time looking out of that particular window than windows with net curtains.
I'm very quick too. Too quick to do a good job for some people on here. I'm not naive enough to know that i do a perfect job with wfp every time, but i do a good one. i also spend that little bit longer on kitchen and lounge windows, but that doesn't mean i don't do a good job on the others because i do them quicker.
All i do is enough to do a good job. No more than that. I guarantee my work and until the speed at which i've done a job is too quick for a good result, then i will strive to go faster and be more efficient.
When i hit problems due to this i will slow down and work out where i've gone wrong and react accordingly. Until then, i will try various techniques that will allow me to be done as quick as i can go without compromising on a clean window.
It can be done gaz. But it won't be possible until you try.
I have explained a technique that works for me on most windows at the start of my previous post. Try it. It has cut my time down on some work by 1/3 and i now do it whenever the job will allow me to get away with it. Many jobs or windows don't.
Though i'd recommend if or when you try to rinse on the glass to do it on a downstairs window where you can view the result and not the kitchen window until you know it will be good. Choose a window with net curtains. ;D
Oh and don't forget a clean brush. Takes seconds to clean and can save minutes per job.
Fortunately our job isn't rocket science. It is very easy to know if a window is clean or not. Assuming a window you've never seen is not clean because you work a different way is stupid. But it's your business to run as you see fit. Good luck with that.
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I can't really see why rinsing on the glass should be any quicker, surely what you really mean is that you don't rinse? Now I can see how that would be quicker! I have tried this myself, but found it a bit hit and miss!! Don't get me wrong I can see that rinsing brush on at 30' or above is sensible, but below that I can't see the problem. ;)
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I have to agree with Mark on this one. When traditional I have been accused of not cleaning the windows properly because I didn't detail the edges of the glass after squeegeeing. According to some there is no way the window could be cleaned properly, only because they personally couldn't use a squeegee properly and they had to squeegee.
The dishcloth comparison is nonsense and here is why. When you go to your window needing cleaned you are going to a pane of glass with very little on it that would dissolve into your pure water. Most of the stuff on the glass would be washed down the glass, and not dissolve into the water. All the water coming out of the brush is pure therefore apart from washing dirt off the glass, it is also washing dirt off the brush.
Rinsing off the glass is a waste of energy and a waste of time. Ronnie you have a perfect opportunity to find out how to do it properly, don't waste it. Some would have the guy sacked, my advice is learn from him. Could be that the guy dosn't clean the windows properly, and if so don't give up find someone who can, and get them to show you. You know it can be done so find out how, it will save you time water and energy, what more could a window cleaner ask for.
Peter
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I can't really see why rinsing on the glass should be any quicker, surely what you really mean is that you don't rinse? Now I can see how that would be quicker! I have tried this myself, but found it a bit hit and miss!! Don't get me wrong I can see that rinsing brush on at 30' or above is sensible, but below that I can't see the problem. ;)
It is quicker because purposely lifting the brush off the glass and aiming the water all over the glass, without the brush actually on the glass, takes more time. And most of the time with a decent flow, the glass is cleaned enough before you get to the stage where you lift the brush off the glass, to do your rinse. This goes into other things that the original question dosn't ask, so I won't bother going into detail.
The hit and miss part you will get with experience. The cleanliness of the window above 30 foot, should be the same as the windows below 30 foot.
Peter
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i rinse on for my commercail work
off for my domestic
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If your rinsing off the glass on upstairs windows your all mad it`s not needed,what Peter says is spot on if you use enough water and a mono brush.The few bits that are left on the glass are gone when the glass is dry,your making hard work for yourselfs by rinsing off but at least you`ll keep the osteopath in business.
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Hi Mark, i take your point,
but why mention a net curtain.
i obviously assumed that you did not clean it as well as others that were plainly on view to the customer.
so I disagreeumption was correct although obviously, only i replied, to that part.hence you saying only i thought that.... what else could i think , regarding you cleaning differently with net curtains up??
but i take your point regarding rinsing on and off,
but i also stand by what is good for myself, and posting that preference..
as its a forum for opinions, that is what i provided,... now why would i want others to do exactly the same as me?.... its my opinion and my advice...
very similar to most other posts.
Regards.
Gary.
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some good replys and i will try rinsing on it to me seems like it will be quicker.
to sack an employee cause he has an opinion would be stupid no one knows everything and you never stop learning.......always be open minded :)
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:)Why not do it 50/50 tilt the brush resting on the glass with one jet slightly higher swaying motion down glass...simple ;)
As a rule though...If you can lift it off! ;D
It only took a couple of months to work that out! :)
Question...
Have WFP's been around for 16 years :o ;D
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rinsing of the glass, was introduced mainly by the commercial workers,working at high levels, i rinse of every time,
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I think the ideal solution would be one of Peter Fogwills autobrushes with 2 pencil or maybe fan jets controlled by a trigger on the top of the brush. U would only press the trigger after cleaning the top of the frame and went onto the glass, so that u didn't spray the bricks above. Then u would be rinsing without taking extra time to rinse.
Please don't tell me Tucker make a brush like this because all I can find in their literature is a brush with ONE jet above the centre of it.
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Wfp has been around very long time 10 years or longer but no one said he had 16 years experience in WFP but in WINDOW CLEANING.
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The only reason you need to rinse off the glass would be because you have a dirty brush think about it,the only way your leaving anything behind is if you have a brush that absorbs dirt.Try using a mono brush and then look at the results,i`ve been cleaning this way for ages now and the results are no different to rinsing off,i think it`s more of a confidence thing really.
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maybe i gave the wrong idea about net curtains. They are more forgiving though than say kitchen or lounge windows but i still rinse off on kitchen / living room etc, but more out of habit than neccessity.
There are jobs that i have to rinse off the glass only, but that is only until they go a few cleans or so until they come up good.
I check 1st cleans thoroughly later that day to see if there are marks or runs. And do this continually for each clean until they are good. When they get to this stage i have the confidence to rinse on the glass. Until then, i don't have that confidence.
I rinsed off for 1 1/2 years of wfp until i noticed many windows were just as clean the following month. I then tried rinsing on for these jobs and checked again the following month. They were good. I wish i'd done that a year before.
The most important thing when rinsing on the glass is to have a good flow rate and a clean brush.
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Mark, I have very few houses with nets but today I had one with nets all around the conservatory. I thought of you. I understood what u meant.
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Mark, I have very few houses with nets but today I had one with nets all around the conservatory. I thought of you. I understood what u meant.
lol
i'm flattered. ;D
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The thing is whatever you do in your work life you want to do it as fast, as safe, and as good as possible. You work to live, and not live to work. An average window cleaner working 40 hours a week will work around 2000 hours a year. You would have to be pretty stupid to work 2000 hour if you only had to work 1000 hours and get the same money. I know what I would choose if I had the choice..
I am not trying to say that rinsing on the glass will cut your time in half, but what I am saying is a clever window cleaner can earn double the money a not so cleaver window cleaner can make in a year, or work half the hours if he wishes. I have seen it first hand in traditional cleaning when I would easily earn double what any other cleaner in my area earned in the same amount of time. I was always one step ahead of them with techniques and equipment, and when they started to catch up I even designed my own tools to keep me ahead. You may think that it's not much time saved here or there, but it all mounts up, and yes it can easily double your earnings, or cut your work day in half.
We have as much of something as Bill Gates and Richard Branson, and no it's not money. It is time and we can't make any more of it, we can only make the most of what we have. We can waste it or we can use it wisely, the choice is yours. There is many things being printed on here that will save you time and money, the secret is to find them, and act upon them, and not knock the person who is willing to share it freely.
Peter
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There is many things being printed on here that will save you time and money, the secret is to find them, and act upon them, and not knock the person who is willing to share it freely.
Peter
Very true. The info is all on here.
peter i remember a video link you put on here a while ago. I think it was for the autobrush when it was ready to sell. On that topic there were loads of posts saying it was not possible to clean a window that quick and still do a good job. You argued your point but many still disagreed. I must admit I was also a bit dubious at the time. But now i realise that it is very possible to do that.
I'm still learning and finding my way with wfp but i have come to realise that it is not so much about mastering our equipment (because we do that through use anyway), but it is just as important to keep an eye on our jobs.
If we learn about the properties and windows we are cleaning it is possible to see how much or how little needs to be done in order to do a top job.
With wfp there are so many variables to take into account that there is no definitive answer for everything. But by learning about the job we are working on we can cut corners without cutting the quality.
But it is hard to understand that until we actually try it out.
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:) I would just like to say I agree with what's been said in the last two reply's! :)
It would seem that I may have upset a couple of people with my replies :-[
This was not my intention, I am sorry if I have offended anyone! :-[
I have only been on this forum for a very short time, I have learnt a lot... I would like to say thank you for that. 8)
I put it down to my so called "DRY" sense of humor and not taking life to seriously :-[
I will try to be more reasonable in my responses in future ;) :)
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i have never before rinsed on the glass till last week. did my first 40ft job and i had to rinse on because it was too hard to rinse off. windows had not been cleaned for twelve years but came up ok. will hope they will be better next time.if i had the choice i would rinse off but obviously you do not always get it.
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There is many things being printed on here that will save you time and money, the secret is to find them, and act upon them, and not knock the person who is willing to share it freely.
Peter
Very true. The info is all on here.
peter i remember a video link you put on here a while ago. I think it was for the autobrush when it was ready to sell. On that topic there were loads of posts saying it was not possible to clean a window that quick and still do a good job. You argued your point but many still disagreed. I must admit I was also a bit dubious at the time. But now i realise that it is very possible to do that.
I'm still learning and finding my way with wfp but i have come to realise that it is not so much about mastering our equipment (because we do that through use anyway), but it is just as important to keep an eye on our jobs.
If we learn about the properties and windows we are cleaning it is possible to see how much or how little needs to be done in order to do a top job.
With wfp there are so many variables to take into account that there is no definitive answer for everything. But by learning about the job we are working on we can cut corners without cutting the quality.
But it is hard to understand that until we actually try it out.
Very true Mark, and a few folk have commented on that particular thread since.
Peter
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:) I would just like to say I agree with what's been said in the last two reply's! :)
It would seem that I may have upset a couple of people with my replies :-[
This was not my intention, I am sorry if I have offended anyone! :-[
I have only been on this forum for a very short time, I have learnt a lot... I would like to say thank you for that. 8)
I put it down to my so called "DRY" sense of humor and not taking life to seriously :-[
I will try to be more reasonable in my responses in future ;) :)
Do you mean in another thread? It dosn't seem like you offended anyone in this thread.
Peter
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I rinse on the glass have done for about 2 1/2 years now.
I just tilt the edge of the brush a bit but the brush stays on the glass.
When i first changed to WFP i used to lift off and thought it was a right pain in the rear.
I have a good flow rate and the windows i clean usually come up excellent.
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Nwh, Mark D and Peter F, also anyone else please can you post on the cleaning brush post I would like to see just how everyone else does it.
Cheers all
Ian,
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i have never before rinsed on the glass till last week. did my first 40ft job and i had to rinse on because it was too hard to rinse off. windows had not been cleaned for twelve years but came up ok. will hope they will be better next time.if i had the choice i would rinse off but obviously you do not always get it.
Most people who do rinse off the glass don't at the above height. The windows at that height are just important as the windows at a lower height. so are they not cleaning the higher windows to the same standard as the lower height windows?
We have established that there is less strain on the body at least rinsing on the glass. If the answer is yes we clean the higher windows to the same standard, then why not rinse on with the lower height windows as well? And if the answer is no we don't clean the higher windows to the same standard, then I would want to learn to clean all windows rinsing on the glass, so as I could clean high windows to the same standard as lower windows.
This question is not directed at you Karygate, but anyone who wants to answer?
Peter
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Always rinse with the brush on the glass and never had a problem just make sure you have a high flow rate.Dont understand why anybody would want to rinse with the brush of the glass you must not have a lot of confidence in the tools you are using.
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the bristles which touch the glass , wether it be on an angle or not... must be a concern..
to be 100% sure is why i rinse off the glass. then i know its 100% pure water rinsing the glass.
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Gazza, maybe a concern for you, but not a concern for me. My bristles are constantly being cleaned on every window, every second the water is passing through my brush.
Peter
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peter wot brush do youe use? and what jets?
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ok i nderstand your answer
how are your bristles being constantly cleaned...are you scrubbing the bristles the same as you are the glass.?
no. so i rinse off to be sure.
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I only gained confidence after a year and a half of cleaning off the glass.
In that time (apart from 1st cleans) i would turn up for a job and just start cleaning asap so i only ever saw a wet window. And therefore couldn't really tell how clean they still were.
Eventually i started to use a higher flow rate and then walked around a few jobs (when the customer wasn't in, so as not to give the game away ;D) and checked the windows. Some sides were dirty but others clean. On the clean windows I then started just to "throw water at the window" and move on to the next.
The following month i checked again and they were good.
I then started rinse on the glass.
I still have jobs and windows that i have to spend more time on and rinse individually off the glass but they are fewer and fewer now as i get more adept at sizing up what needs to be done.
One effect it has had though in the last 6 months i have had many customers accuse/tell me that i am too quick. I can see myself losing a job here and there because of resentment at what i charge for how long i take now.
This pees me off but it won't change how i work now. I will only slow down when i hit a problem or get to the stage where i am that quick, the job hasn't been done properly.
I guarantee my work to cover this scenario, so am not too worried about the future.
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ok i nderstand your answer
how are your bristles being constantly cleaned...are you scrubbing the bristles the same as you are the glass.?
no. so i rinse off to be sure.
You answered NO but the answer is YES, the bristles are being cleaned the same as the glass,
Peter
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so off the glass would cause no scenarios... or problems.
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Look at a true mono brush after it`s been used,there will be nothing left in it hardly at all.
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so pure wtaer .. off the glass would take away any problems...... can u honestly say your bristles are as pure as pue water ?
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so pure wtaer .. off the glass would take away any problems...... can u honestly say your bristles are as pure as pue water ?
A good flow rate is important.
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so pure wtaer .. off the glass would take away any problems...... can u honestly say your bristles are as pure as pue water ?
i do agree my mono brush is always full of cob webs and dirt, taking the pole down to clean brush for each window is time consuming if useing a pole for the ground floor as well
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OK gaz lets try it this way. When you walk away from your window is it clean? Lets say the answer is yes. OK how is it clean? Because you cleaned it with pure water, agree? Well what if you were cleaning your brush while cleaning the window with the pure water. You can clean a window with pure water right? well why can't you clean the bristles with clean water as well?
Peter
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so pure wtaer .. off the glass would take away any problems...... can u honestly say your bristles are as pure as pue water ?
i do agree my mono brush is always full of cob webs and dirt, taking the pole down to clean brush for each window is time consuming if useing a pole for the ground floor as well
You have to remember that cobwebs stick to the brush bristles instead of being rinsed away like dust or whatever is on the glass. Cobwebs don't cause a problem as they don't dissolve into the water, and neither does most dirt on the glass.
Birds dirt will dissolve in the water and could cause problems if not dealt with correctly, but that is another storey for another post.
Peter
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Johna, I have many pleasures in life, and believe it or not one of them is when trying to explain something to someone, the way I see it, and suddenly the penny drops.
I get pleasure in seeing people working very effectively cleaning windows. I get a bit frustrated when I see someone working badly. I once saw a window cleaner working in Blackpool on a hotel. He was cleaning a third storey window, and was having a problem with the brush fitting on the pole. He lowered his pole and fiddled about with it for at least 10 minutes, and the whole time his water was flowing from the brush. I felt like jumping out the car and turning it off for him.
Peter
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I wish you lived a bit closer Peter, I would really like to watch you and get some tips on cleaning with wfp from a (real) pro. :)
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peter i remember a video link you put on here a while ago. I think it was for the autobrush when it was ready to sell. On that topic there were loads of posts saying it was not possible to clean a window that quick and still do a good job. You argued your point but many still disagreed. I must admit I was also a bit dubious at the time. But now i realise that it is very possible to do that.
I was one of the ones who said that it was not possible, I have now changed my mind a bit, as I can now clean windows faster than Peter does in that clip!! But the difference is that I clean the frames and sills as well, and rinse with the brush off the glass to ensure a perfect finish!!!
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peter maybe i could come and spend a couple of hours watching you one day?? i live in mancheater
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Just after we started cleaning windows wfp we adapted all of the brushes to an over the top fan spray ( bought from a cleaning suppliers - used on the wands of carpet cleaners.
We screwed them in place on the angle of the brush head - so that the fan spray came just over the top of the brush. About 5mm from the edge of the brush.
We did this for all our brushes, upstairs and downstairs.
The only other fan spray I have seen was a Tucker one? that seemed to have it about a foot away from the brush on the angle of the goose neck.
In my opinion no brush will self clean itself quickly enough to not drag dirt down a window if we use the pencil jets (through the brush).
Also if you are lifting off the glass you are leaving yourself prone to pulls and future problems with backs etc and even at a couple of storey this will be aproblem.
With an over the brush fan spray - used properly - so you are not catching the brickwork at the top of the window you have the best of both worlds.
I do not understand why the suppliers have never developed this system. It works - it works excellently at any height and on those commercial or really high windows you know you have at least given it a 100% pure water rinse.
Until we stopped window cleaning full time (back in March) we cleaned some 3 storey windows on a bank head office and got excellent results - using this practise (we had to do the insides as well so we could see how well the outsides had dried) we would clean about 600 3 storey windows easily in 1 day at nearly 15 metres.
Rob ;D
Rob ;D
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Just after we started cleaning windows wfp we adapted all of the brushes to an over the top fan spray ( bought from a cleaning suppliers - used on the wands of carpet cleaners.
We screwed them in place on the angle of the brush head - so that the fan spray came just over the top of the brush. About 5mm from the edge of the brush.
We did this for all our brushes, upstairs and downstairs.
The only other fan spray I have seen was a Tucker one? that seemed to have it about a foot away from the brush on the angle of the goose neck.
In my opinion no brush will self clean itself quickly enough to not drag dirt down a window if we use the pencil jets (through the brush).
Also if you are lifting off the glass you are leaving yourself prone to pulls and future problems with backs etc and even at a couple of storey this will be aproblem.
With an over the brush fan spray - used properly - so you are not catching the brickwork at the top of the window you have the best of both worlds.
I do not understand why the suppliers have never developed this system. It works - it works excellently at any height and on those commercial or really high windows you know you have at least given it a 100% pure water rinse.
Until we stopped window cleaning full time (back in March) we cleaned some 3 storey windows on a bank head office and got excellent results - using this practise (we had to do the insides as well so we could see how well the outsides had dried) we would clean about 600 3 storey windows easily in 1 day at nearly 15 metres.
Rob ;D
Rob ;D
thanks for that, good idea will try and use that ...
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100 psi i rinse on
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I can rinse a window with 6000psi it doesnt get it clean!!!!
Rob ;D
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I have to admit i was one of those who thought that peters way of cleaning windows would not work and that you had to rinses brush off . But after thinking i could only knock it if i tried it i realised i was wrong.
A month ago i was cleaning a bay window i had scrubbed the frames and the glass then i had to leave and didn't come back for an hour (fire brigade call out) on my return i thought i will do that window again because i didn't rinse but upon inspection it was fine, which goes to show it takes less clean a window with wfp than i thought.I still continue with my usual method though to be on the safe side and it is give the frames and glass a scrub and then go over them again brush on as a rinse.
One thing i would say is that when you use a new method you will probably scrutinise the windows and may find some spots or runs, my suggestion is use your usuall method on one house then rinse brush on on the house next door to it, after check both houses and i suggest there will be very litte difference inbetween them. Both will have the odd run or spot but will be perfectly acceptable to the customer. And please don't tell me that all your windows come up perfect every time because they dont and this applies for trad or wfp. You will always leave the odd spot, drip,smear etc..... whatever method you use but it will still be ten times better than if the customer had cleaned it themselves.
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Just after we started cleaning windows wfp we adapted all of the brushes to an over the top fan spray ( bought from a cleaning suppliers - used on the wands of carpet cleaners.
We screwed them in place on the angle of the brush head - so that the fan spray came just over the top of the brush. About 5mm from the edge of the brush.
I am glad it works for you but it didn't work for me.
The only other fan spray I have seen was a Tucker one? that seemed to have it about a foot away from the brush on the angle of the goose neck.
I think you will probably find that other suppliers have tried it and it was not so successful, or there was a better way. I know of a couple, and I definitely did myself. If you have water hitting the glass under pressure which a fan spray will produce, then you will get water spraying where you don't want it to go.
In my opinion no brush will self clean itself quickly enough to not drag dirt down a window if we use the pencil jets (through the brush).
The brush is not so much self cleaning, think of it more like it's not dirty in the first place.
Peter
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peter maybe i could come and spend a couple of hours watching you one day?? i live in mancheater
You can if you want Ronnie. I don't clean many windows these days as I am busy selling systems, but no doubt I could arrange something.
Peter
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I was one of the ones who said that it was not possible, I have now changed my mind a bit, as I can now clean windows faster than Peter does in that clip!! But the difference is that I clean the frames and sills as well, and rinse with the brush off the glass to ensure a perfect finish!!!
Nice to hear it Groundhog, perhaps you could offer Ronnie a couple of hours to watch you?
Peter
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peter that would be great my email is ronberclear@yahoo.co.uk
Ronnie
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[quote author=Peter Fogwill link=topic=55288.msg469781#msg469781 date=1211133327
Nice to hear it Groundhog, perhaps you could offer Ronnie a couple of hours to watch you?
Peter
If I can work out how to do it I will put a clip of myself cleaning a similar house to the one in your clip on youtube or something. I have learnt a lot from you Peter although I don't agree with all that you say, especially the rinsing on thing! I am however very interested in your clampless pole and auto brush, I have experimented with an old predator pole which I removed the clamps from, on most work I found it much quicker than having to fiddle about with clamps, the only downside was that the pole would swivel very easily which could be annoying, have you come up with a solution to this problem yet, I thought that perhaps an oval pole would stop this from happening.
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[quote author=Peter Fogwill link=topic=55288.msg469781#msg469781 date=1211133327
Nice to hear it Groundhog, perhaps you could offer Ronnie a couple of hours to watch you?
Peter
If I can work out how to do it I will put a clip of myself cleaning a similar house to the one in your clip on you tube or something. I have learnt a lot from you Peter although I don't agree with all that you say, especially the rinsing on thing! I am however very interested in your clampless pole and auto brush, I have experimented with an old predator pole which I removed the clamps from, on most work I found it much quicker than having to fiddle about with clamps, the only downside was that the pole would swivel very easily which could be annoying, have you come up with a solution to this problem yet, I thought that perhaps an oval pole would stop this from happening.
You tube is very easy. As long as you have the clip on your computer it only takes a few minutes.
People are never going to agree on all things, just as well or the world would be a peculiar place.
The new pole won't swivel, it will go up and down in a straight line. I did think about an oval shape but the fittings needed to make the pole work effectively would be much harder to engineer. The pole should be ready at the end of June.
Peter
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I went to buy the auto brush yesterday but left the purchase page when i see the price.
Chris
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I went to buy the auto brush yesterday but left the purchase page when i see the price.
Chris
Its about double the price of an 11" brush from a supplier. This is a 15" brush, which will save you gallons of water, and a lot of hassle, and won't be long before it pays for itself. But you will never know how good it is, unless you try it.
Peter
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I was one of the ones who said that it was not possible, I have now changed my mind a bit, as I can now clean windows faster than Peter does in that clip!! But the difference is that I clean the frames and sills as well, and rinse with the brush off the glass to ensure a perfect finish!!!
Groundhog, I was reading the thread you were referring to and just wondered if your comment at the bottom of page 13 still stands? I never replied to it at the time because I never seen it. I probably thought the thread had run it's time, and I wasn't checking the forum, as I was probably catching up with some work.
Anyway if any newbies are interested in this thread, they may also be interested in this one as well... www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=24877.240
At the time it was the longest thread on the forum at 14 pages long, has it been beaten since I wonder?
Peter
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This is a question that can never be answered to the satisfaction of all because each method has it fans.
I personally rinse on the glass and I never have a problem, it's quicker for one thing.
Your brush is being continually cleaned at the same time as the window and you can always flick it back and forth quickly over parts of the frame to replicate running your fingers through the brush to flick out debris.
I think it is all down to personal technique and confidence.
Ian
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This is a question that can never be answered to the satisfaction of all because each method has it fans.
I personally rinse on the glass and I never have a problem, it's quicker for one thing.
Your brush is being continually cleaned at the same time as the window and you can always flick it back and forth quickly over parts of the frame to replicate running your fingers through the brush to flick out debris.
I think it is all down to personal technique and confidence.
Ian
confidence is the best word to sum this up.
I do both for this reason
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Peter yes I do stand by that, you say yourself that you use a high flow rate! so after you have cleaned the top windows then of course there is going to drips going onto the windows below!!
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But surely if you are cleaning the windows faster than in the video, then not enough water would be going on the glass, to allow it to cause a problem on the window below? Keeping in mind I was replying to someone asking about the water dripping on the window below, AFTER the window below has been cleaned.
Peter
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Err ??? If you clean an upstairs window with a high flow rate then the water is going to drip onto the window below!! Its called the law of gravity mate!!! ;)
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Err ??? If you clean an upstairs window with a high flow rate then the water is going to drip onto the window below!! Its called the law of gravity mate!!! ;)
you start one end do all tops of house, then bottoms after, you must know this ::)
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It makes hardly any difference in the drying time of sills with a heavy flo rate or low flo rate,the idea is to clean the windows quicker with a higher flow of water,if you stand there twice as long with a lower flow of water your probobly using the same amount only it`s taking you longer.If you use the correct amount of water you spend hardly any time at any one window,well i don`t anyway.
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Of course I know this, it is what I do!!! But Peter for some reason thinks that there are no drips when he cleans an upstairs window and that it is perfectly ok to simply clean the window below immediately after cleaning the one above it!!!! ???
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Of course I know this, it is what I do!!! But Peter for some reason thinks that there are no drips when he cleans an upstairs window and that it is perfectly ok to simply clean the window below immediately after cleaning the one above it!!!! ???
it is fine. we do it all the time with no issues
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I hardly ever have any of these dripping issues.
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Of course I know this, it is what I do!!! But Peter for some reason thinks that there are no drips when he cleans an upstairs window and that it is perfectly ok to simply clean the window below immediately after cleaning the one above it!!!! ???
Yes definitely. So you have cleaned the top windows, then at what point do you clean the bottom ones underneath? Do you go for a coffee to let the water finish dripping? Of course not, you go straight from a top window to the window below, unless you are doing a lot of unnecessary walking.
Peter
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Of course I know this, it is what I do!!! But Peter for some reason thinks that there are no drips when he cleans an upstairs window and that it is perfectly ok to simply clean the window below immediately after cleaning the one above it!!!! ???
Yes definitely. So you have cleaned the top windows, then at what point do you clean the bottom ones underneath? Do you go for a coffee to let the water finish dripping? Of course not, you go straight from a top window to the window below, unless you are doing a lot of unnecessary walking.
Peter
Might work on some windows, but I don't see it working on all! If they have a little overhang that's fine, but only 30% of my round has that.
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Of course I know this, it is what I do!!! But Peter for some reason thinks that there are no drips when he cleans an upstairs window and that it is perfectly ok to simply clean the window below immediately after cleaning the one above it!!!! ???
Yes definitely. So you have cleaned the top windows, then at what point do you clean the bottom ones underneath? Do you go for a coffee to let the water finish dripping? Of course not, you go straight from a top window to the window below, unless you are doing a lot of unnecessary walking.
Peter
If doing this on painted houses you get spots from the drips coming down on some, if you are cleaning with stone ledges again same problem. if its dripping a lot I move to next window along.
Ian
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The whole point of all this is don't use so much water that it will run down in the first place, and you won't have any problems. Yes a splash or drip may hit the glass underneath before you start to clean it, but so what, it has still to be cleaned. Anyone who has a problem with water dripping on the bottom window after they have cleaned it should seriously look at trying to reduce the amount of water they put on the window above. Rinsing on the glass will help to achieve this.
Peter
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I think i use too much water then.... but i am happy with my flow rate as i can get the speed i desire for the frames and the glass......
water does drip below... i seriously dont think that can be avoided, unless you are not using enough water to rinse...
i do a top window, .....its generally dripping more or less straight away...... then i clean the sill.... and then run the brush along the sill flicking the water off...... then move straight on to the next uptairs window at the side of it......(whilst the first window is stopping dripping)......
Then on to the downstairs window below the first upstairs one!....
i would say that is quicker than doing one upstairs, then going straight to the one underneath (still dripping).........
also dropping the pole to either a smaller size, then up again.... or swapping for a downstairs pole.. then up again is surely going to be harder work... and slower.
... oh and by the time i get to a bottom window... the drips have stopped.
gary.
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sorry , thats just how i work.... not how i think or expect it should be done. ;) ;) :)
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Gazza, I wasn't meaning you would clean 1 top window then the one underneath, then back up to the top window. What I was meaning that if there is two or three top windows you would clean these first, then you would drop the pole to the window underneath the last top one you had just cleaned.
Yes and by the time I get to the bottom windows the drips if any have stopped, and that is my whole point, if you don't use too much water then there is no problem cleaning the window underneath the one you have just cleaned. And surely it is quicker cleaning the one you just cleaned, than to walk to the one underneath the first one you cleaned. Might not be much time but it all mounts up.
Years ago when I first started cleaning windows my mentor used to clean the front windows on a house, then he would walk round the back of the house with the ladder, only to return back to the front to get his bucket. I couldn't understand why he never took it with him in the first place. Again not much time, but over the course of the day it adds up to a considerable amount.
Peter
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Hi Pete,
Thanks, good ponts and examples of speeding things up and not wasting time,
i see your point that it would be quicker and to drop straight to the window underneat,.... but i think as it can still be dripping, firstly i dont want get get wet..... and secondly, if it was still dripping to a point where it may splash up and dirty the window... then i would rather do another dowstairs window first......come back and then do it then......
that way i have peace of mind, and i know i wont need to come back to check, or even clean that window again......
and that time wasting, would cancel out the savings.
Cheers.
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Gazza, I wouldn't expect anyone to want to change the way they work if it was only saving a few seconds, I was only giving the example to defend the way I work.
Peter