Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 08:16:56 pm

Title: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 08:16:56 pm
Just wondering what do most people set there tap valve on 4040 ro?? how much waste compaired to pure.

got mine set to around 60/40 60% being waste.. the tds  comes out about 13 or 14 at that rate, with 337 going in anymore closing of the tap tds starts tog go up.


Dave
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 08:24:30 pm
Just wondering what do most people set there tap valve on 4040 ro?? how much waste compaired to pure.

got mine set to around 60/40 60% being waste.. the tds  comes out about 13 or 14 at that rate, with 337 going in anymore closing of the tap tds starts tog go up.


Dave
I have more pure than waste 70/30 at a guess I did have tds of 470 going in, but now have a salt(softener vessal) so it goes off the scale, seems to give more pure and alot quicker.
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 08:32:05 pm
dont blame you with being on a meter  ;D

mines slightly more waste to pure if i close tap anymore the tds rises soo.. have to keep it as it is... luckily not on a meter tho.


my TDS used to be around 380 390 410 but seems very lower these days maybe its the good weather  ???
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 08:37:33 pm
dont blame you with being on a meter  ;D

Tell me about it, and I asked for it to be fitted  ::)
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 08:42:45 pm
lol.. :-[ 

i have  2 tds meters now one gaps water sent me with the kit i got and a purefreedom one that come from off ebay.

i have just tested my water with both one displays 337 the gaps water one.. purefreedom displays 390  :-\  ???

so i was thinking of buying some pure water from asda or is it just RO water? if not have 2 get another meter to see which is correctly working lol  :(
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 08:45:24 pm
lol.. :-[ 

i have  2 tds meters now one gaps water sent me with the kit i got and a purefreedom one that come from off ebay.

i have just tested my water with both one displays 337 the gaps water one.. purefreedom displays 390  :-\  ???

so i was thinking of buying some pure water from asda or is it just RO water? if not have 2 get another meter to see which is correctly working lol  :(
you need calibration fluid, ro-man does it, and I swear I saw someone say on here you can get from chemist.

I have a few of the handhelds, when they stop I just buy another  :-X
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 08:47:23 pm
how you mean calibration fluid?


do they not last long?
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 08:51:09 pm
h ttp://www.ro-man.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/250

take out the space

Ian
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 08:52:22 pm
oh i see..

so obv the water is a certain TDS and dip both in and obv the one that comes back at the right one is correct?
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 08:56:08 pm
oh i see..

so obv the water is a certain TDS and dip both in and obv the one that comes back at the right one is correct?
as far as I am aware, there is a pin hole in the back for this, but have never used or tried it, I am sure there will be some that do this though on here.

Alex G will have this answer

Ian
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: jewelcleaning on May 11, 2008, 09:00:32 pm
I have a softener before the RO (4040) and I can have the tap right down so a trickle of waste at around 500-800ppm, and still low ppm for pure, but coming out more quickly. 

(BTW: Water in 160-180ppm.)

Don't know what this is doing to the Ro though, I guess as long as I open the valve fully once regularly and flush through it should be ok, but correct me if I'm doing it all wrong?
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: brightnclean on May 11, 2008, 09:06:41 pm
Ian .

A word of warning for you mate. Do NOT run your 4040 at 70% product to 30% waste even with a softener. It should be much nearer the other way around. You WILL ruin your membrane quickly especially with your high tap TDS.

I riuned a 40 inch membrane by neglecting it. The main thing was running it at low waste to high output. :(

Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: Alex Gardiner on May 11, 2008, 09:09:07 pm
oh i see..

so obv the water is a certain TDS and dip both in and obv the one that comes back at the right one is correct?
as far as I am aware, there is a pin hole in the back for this, but have never used or tried it, I am sure there will be some that do this though on here.

Alex G will have this answer

Ian

There is usually a small screw set behind this 'pin hole' which you can adjust until it reads the 500ppm of the calibration fluid.
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: brightnclean on May 11, 2008, 09:09:31 pm
I have a softener before the RO (4040) and I can have the tap right down so a trickle of waste at around 500-800ppm, and still low ppm for pure, but coming out more quickly. 

(BTW: Water in 160-180ppm.)

Don't know what this is doing to the Ro though, I guess as long as I open the valve fully once regularly and flush through it should be ok, but correct me if I'm doing it all wrong?

YUP you are doing it wrong. Increase the waste to at least 60%. Flushing it now and then wont help much at all at your waste to product ratio. You are lucky in having a lowish tap TDS so you might have got away with it.. for now.
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 09:10:01 pm
I have a softener before the RO (4040) and I can have the tap right down so a trickle of waste at around 500-800ppm, and still low ppm for pure, but coming out more quickly. 

(BTW: Water in 160-180ppm.)

Don't know what this is doing to the Ro though, I guess as long as I open the valve fully once regularly and flush through it should be ok, but correct me if I'm doing it all wrong?
as long is there is no salt there is not a problem.

I got told this from a guy that is clued up, I will try and explain what was said.

softener make water bigger, when hitting the ro it is like 50p and pennies 50p are forced through ro and pennies in waste hope that makes sence.

I got the straight off when told (and Jerry again you are a star, fosters ;) )

when i did a test on water after softener my tds meter went mental and said x10 997 and it scared the life out of me, as said it in simple terms makes the water bigger, add a booster pump in with this and the results are FANTASTIC
Ian
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 09:13:14 pm
Ian .

A word of warning for you mate. Do NOT run your 4040 at 70% product to 30% waste even with a softener. It should be much nearer the other way around. You WILL ruin your membrane quickly especially with your high tap TDS.

I riuned a 40 inch membrane by neglecting it. The main thing was running it at low waste to high output. :(


That was a guess I cant do the tests as my van is not here.

but a 4040 should not have 60% waste ratio should it  :-\
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 09:16:18 pm
Quote
There is usually a small screw set behind this 'pin hole' which you can adjust until it reads the 500ppm of the calibration fluid.


thanks Alex

why do they need re calibrating tho? i thought they were factory calibrated?
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: Alex Gardiner on May 11, 2008, 09:21:05 pm
Quote
There is usually a small screw set behind this 'pin hole' which you can adjust until it reads the 500ppm of the calibration fluid.


thanks Alex

why do they need re calibrating tho? i thought they were factory calibrated?

Who knows!

I have had a hand held one now for 7 years and it is still on its original battery and its factory settings. Always spot on.
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: brightnclean on May 11, 2008, 09:21:41 pm
Sorry Ian but it should have at least that mate :(  Even when using a softener.

If you look at any RO manufacturers spec sheets for 40 inch membranes like the ones we use their figures are based on only 15% recovery. That's 85% waste.

Please tell me you are not putting your water straight into the RO system when you are regenerating your softener resin with the salt crystals. The reading with the salt in it is off the scale. It should be run until every bit of sodium solution has been dispersed and then connected back up to the RO.
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 09:22:58 pm
Quote
There is usually a small screw set behind this 'pin hole' which you can adjust until it reads the 500ppm of the calibration fluid.


thanks Alex

why do they need re calibrating tho? i thought they were factory calibrated?

Who knows!

I have had a hand held one now for 7 years and it is still on its original battery and its factory settings. Always spot on.
One of mine just comes up with error, not got a clue why lucky I had a spare, but got another just to be on the safe side.

Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: L.J.Thorpe on May 11, 2008, 09:25:13 pm
dont know about 4040
ro man 300gpd
i get 28ltrs of pure for 13ltrs of waste
tds in is 470
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 09:27:08 pm
dont know about 4040
ro man 300gpd
i get 28ltrs of pure for 13ltrs of waste
tds in is 470
I may down grade then and save money  ;)
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: L.J.Thorpe on May 11, 2008, 09:30:25 pm
ian thats 28 ltrs an hour
4040 is a lot faster aint it ???
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 09:42:48 pm
ian thats 28 ltrs an hour
4040 is a lot faster aint it ???
sorry I thought you meant a min, I had 1L every 8 secs the other day, which I was quite happy with didnt test it over the hour so weather that was built up ort not i dont know till i get van back again.
maybe I will stcik with what I have

Ian
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 09:43:24 pm
i was getting about 28 - 30 lit per hour with my other RO


with 4040 gettin around 170 lit per hour couldnt belive it.. thats with running 60% to waste was not expecting that
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: Wayne Thomas on May 11, 2008, 09:46:04 pm
The higher the flow of waste water on a 4040 the longer the membrane will last.
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 09:50:05 pm
Quote
Who knows!

I have had a hand held one now for 7 years and it is still on its original battery and its factory settings. Always spot on

Il get some solution see which is giving the correct readings out of the two
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: jaykie on May 11, 2008, 10:29:59 pm
God this stuff confuses me, how do you work out your percents of waste to good, is it a guess or is there a way of finding out, also how do you check tds in is this just a check out of tap, also what is the 1st thing i should be looking at changing as my system is only 6 weeks old.

Chris
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 10:33:57 pm
Quote
God this stuff confuses me, how do you work out your percents of waste to good, is it a guess or is there a way of finding out, also how do you check tds in is this just a check out of tap, also what is the 1st thing i should be looking at changing as my system is only 6 weeks old.

i just guessd with the % of pure/waste by holding up my waste pipe and pure pipe, you could meassure it by timing how long it takes to make  1 lit of pure and 1 lit of waste.

tds in is from the tap
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 12, 2008, 09:58:32 am
use a jug to see how much waste fills in a  min, and the same just before water goes to tank.

I am thinking of getting something like digital meter to get this spot on each time rather than guessing

First thing you will need to change is the prefilters, depending how much water you make depends on the time to change them some leave them a long time others like me change once a month/6 weeks (this way I know they are working to peak performance. others do this 6 monthly, personal preference I guess.


Ian
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: jaykie on May 12, 2008, 05:19:02 pm
Andrew at purefreedom said to change every 3 months regardless of how much i produce, i reckon ive only had about 800 litres through the system at 50/50 waste to pure, where do you recomend i get prefilters from or shall i get from purefreedom

Chris
Title: Re: Production/Waste
Post by: windowwashers on May 12, 2008, 06:36:45 pm
Andrew at purefreedom said to change every 3 months regardless of how much i produce, i reckon ive only had about 800 litres through the system at 50/50 waste to pure, where do you recomend i get prefilters from or shall i get from purefreedom

Chris
I use wintecs prefilters, look the same but less than half price from.
I change  reg so imo makes little difference they could even be the same ones ( I honestly dont know)


Ian