Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian Rochester on May 08, 2008, 06:37:14 pm
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Just got myself a cracking deal on a Renault Trafic LL29 and fully fitted Thermopure system.
Just got to work out how everything works now, much more complicated than my other WFP systems.
If anyone can help, give me a call on 01665 713448 or email me at ian@lionheartcleaning.co.uk
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You have mail ;D
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Ian,
On a different note many thanks for the info, will def return back.
Cheers
Doug
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Dale,
Thanks for that, I'll give you a call either later today or over the weekend when I'm stood next to the machine and you can hopefully talk me through it all.
Two of the lads who work for me (and who'll be using it) came round to look at it last night, I think "gobsmacked" is the right word. They were wanting to take it out today but unfortunatly the van needs to be mot'd and serviced first and I need to get it re-liveried.
I also need to get some new resin for the system as by the colour of it it looks shot!
Doug,
You're welcome, can't remember what the info was though, I seem to have sent a load out to different people lately, but that's the beauty of this forum everyone is quite willing to pass information and experience around without any qualms, it can only be good for the cleaning business as a whole.
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I also need to get some new resin for the system as by the colour of it it looks shot!
save yourself a fortune fella and buy yourself a di vessel and fil with resin from bags, i have a pro 5 system and was using a resin cartridge from ionics in between 4 and 6 weeks, bought a 11l di vessel and now a bag of resin 25l (about £60-£70) lasts me about 9 months!!!!!
hope this helps
greg
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Greg,
I have a spare DI vessel if needed, this system doesn't look like it takes cartridges, it looks like it's loose resin.
Tried contacting Ionics today but had no reply as yet.
Ian
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Greg,
I have a spare DI vessel if needed, this system doesn't look like it takes cartridges, it looks like it's loose resin.
Tried contacting Ionics today but had no reply as yet.
Ian
Do you have a pic of it? or could you take one?
from the sounds of it someone has converted it already.
Ian
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How much did you buy that off of Ebay for lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The asking price was about £11k
Even if he paid that full asking price he's still bagged himself a major bargain.
Well done to you matey. ***GREEN*** with envy LOL
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I had no idea it was 11k he was asking,i wish i`d have known that.
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It's not been modified, the spare DI I have is from a system we had several years ago.
As for what I paid, that would be telling, but it was under the asking price, he wanted cash the same day and it was first to his door with the money got the van.
The van is in mint condition, some of the Ionics sheet- wrap on the outside is cracked so it's going to come off, but I'm keeping the "Reach and Wash Man"and "Thermopure Man" logos on the van. It's then getting my livery put on on Wednesday.
Van's been MOT'd and serviced today, passed no problem, just needed new brake pads to rear and a set of new wiper blades.
The only downside is that there is only one key with it, I think it's about £80-£100 to get a key cut and coded.
The system has now all been tested and appears fine, water reading at both outfeeds (hot and cold) is 000. Didn't realise I could run two poles from it at once! :)
It also came speedlined and fully fitted by Ionics, with a 35', 18' and 4' poles, all in very good condition and a pole rack inside.
I like it and I think I've got myself a good deal, time will tell! ;D
Will give Ionics a call on Monday to discuss everything with them as I'm not familiar with the backflushing with salt with this system and there's a three pin plug on a piece of cable that I don't understand what it is for.
Hopefully it will be earning by the end of next week, the lads are fighting over who's going to get it!
Thanks to Dale for giving my a crash lesson over the phone today, appreciated. ;)
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No worries Ian, it was a pleasure to help. You have got yourself a bargain ;D.
I am very sure that the plug is there if you needed extra power...... when you are running the hot water & the van engine is not running, it will eventually cut out & stop heating. the plug is there in case you ever want to plug it into a power source.
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I'm also green.
Best of luck, anyone who aint green is lieing or lacks imagination.
It's really great to work with great kit, as you comment even your team is excited. A good thread so far and i hope my coming on and making a comment doesn't start the bickering off.
People who take pride in and are given the best eqiupment will do a bang up job and keep on doing it longer. An electric reel is pretty cool too.
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come on lion heart how much did you pay? you seem to be very quiet on the subject ;) i was really hoping to grab a bargain on that system so put me out of my misery how much was it? ;)
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dude the plug is to charge the battery if u look in the back it has a fitted
charger and needs plugging in once a week for a boost that's all
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Ahhhhh, I see, cheers for that.
Had it running hot today and the water was coming out red hot in no time, washed the house windows, washed the car, washed the van. Then took all the sheet wrap off the van, it came off really easy when the panel was heated by the sun.
It's fed directly from the vehicles main diesel tank, any idea how much diesel it would use in a days work say the full 600lts hot?
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ok just ignore me, pretend i'm not here ;)
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Ahhhhh, I see, cheers for that.
Had it running hot today and the water was coming out red hot in no time, washed the house windows, washed the car, washed the van. Then took all the sheet wrap off the van, it came off really easy when the panel was heated by the sun.
It's fed directly from the vehicles main diesel tank, any idea how much diesel it would use in a days work say the full 600lts hot?
£25-30 a week minimum,LPG systems are cheaper to run.
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But so what you got it for a bargain. ;) ;) ;) ;)
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I can live with that fuel usage, I thought it would be around about £5 per day.
Nat, missed your post, I'll just say it was slightly less than he was asking but with the travelling, MOT, service, etc to add on. Were you the person who offered £10,400? Someone else from Wiltshire offered the full asking price but couldn't get the cash until Monday, I managed to get to the bank and got down to his within 3 hours of agreeing it with him.
I had a email today making me an offer for it which would have turned a very tidy profit, but I'm keeping it for now, if we don't get on with it then we may let it go.......but don't hold your breath!
My windows and car that I cleaned with it earlier are gleaming and totally spot free, chuffed! Never been this excited about a new toy since buying my Prowler TM last November. :)
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i never offered lion, i was hoping to win the auction, it was always worth the asking price, i was hoping to get it cheaper but i would of paid around 11 for it. did you see it on ebay before it got posted on here in the for sale section??
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Yes I did, so you can let Jon-scwindows off the hook for informing everyone of it, I hate it when that happens.
I wasn't looking for that type of van, I was just browsing and was actually looking for a newer van, ideally a transporter.
However when I saw it, I got my ionics brochure out, found the new price for the system alone (not fitted, not speedlined) was £8700 +vat and similar vans on autotrader were up for between £8-10K, proper speedlining costs £500+, poles worth approx £300-400.
So the whole package had to be worth £16K+, bit of a no brainer really. I thought I would get gazumped somewhere along the line but luckily he was after a quick deal and I could accommodate.
When I get it all liveried up I'll stick a photo on here.
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ok can we change the subject as i'm starting to feel sick that i never took his arm off for it ;) ;D
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lionheart here are some things that will save you a shed load of money
1. convert to a 25 ltr di
2. bag of resin last about a year £ 75 Ionic cartridge £85 last about 3 months
3.convert to heating oil 48 p per ltr diesel £124
4. this is a MUST convert the heating part with a thermostatic valve and regulate the temp to 26 degrees max
or you will break glass I know and have 3 times it not funny
5 use a digital thermometer about £ 12 at a cook shop
sorry to go on but this does save a lot of money and time .......and saves you time explaining to custy how u broke there windows with the hot water here are some pics :o
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I have a spare DI cannister anyway so if need be it's not a problem to fit that inline at the outfeed.
When I ran it hot yesterday it was reading nearly 70 deg on the dial and it was bl**dy hot! There doesn't appear to be any method of regulating the temperature of the water.
I did wonder what might be the end result of putting near boiling water on a piece of glass that could be sitting at minus 10c, I think the phrase is "Thermal Shock!" followed by "CRACK", followed by a lot of expletives!
I quite like the fact that it gets it's fuel from the vehicles main tank, however I will monitor the fuel usage on the van and if it starts getting excessive I'll look at converting it.
Why do I need a digital thermometer as the system is fitted with a temperature guage?
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There's no way an eight grand system doesn't have some kind of control on it. I thought one of the current users was helping you.
I've cracked two panes with my system (lpg on demand £1 per day) but that was my fault for having it too hot and I can control my temperature.Currently it is set to low which still comes out quite warm. I don't use a thermometer because this doesn't predict the temperature through the hose.
This time of year it comes out hotter anyway as less heat is lost via the hose.
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There's no need to use hot water all the time. I only use it when I'm doing salty windows, windows constantly being bombarded by the birds, new cleans and cladding or conservatory roofs if they're really green.
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lionheart here are some things that will save you a shed load of money
1. convert to a 25 ltr di
2. bag of resin last about a year £ 75 Ionic cartridge £85 last about 3 months
3.convert to heating oil 48 p per ltr diesel £124
4. this is a MUST convert the heating part with a thermostatic valve and regulate the temp to 26 degrees max
or you will break glass I know and have 3 times it not funny
5 use a digital thermometer about £ 12 at a cook shop
sorry to go on but this does save a lot of money and time .......and saves you time explaining to custy how u broke there windows with the hot water here are some pics :o
26 degrees max? Many times in the summer months or in the direct sun, glass is much hotter then that to begin with.
Whats the point of the hot water system if you can't make the glass any hotter then it is to begin with?
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Exactly,i was working last week in hot weather and was thinking the very same thing.It was dry in next to no time as the glass was baking hot and hot water would have been a waste of time as it was hot when hitting the glass,(wait for the stupid comments about cold water evaporating)in the winter if it`s to hot it cracks the glass so where`s the use there.If you ask me cold in the summer and a drop of isopropanol in the winter.
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Exactly,i was working last week in hot weather and was thinking the very same thing.It was dry in next to no time as the glass was baking hot and hot water would have been a waste of time as it was hot when hitting the glass,(wait for the stupid comments about cold water evaporating)in the winter if it`s to hot it cracks the glass so where`s the use there.If you ask me cold in the summer and a drop of isopropanol in the winter.
I'm not suggesting there is not use for the hot water system. My point is that I believe that the 26 degrees is too low. We have tested hot water systems much hotter then that and had no issues.
These 'broken panes' are they insulated glass windows or are they single pane windows?
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I would have thought that Ionics would have thought about this in the design stage and overcome this issue, so before I go any further I have Steve from Ionics coming up next week to talk me through it, I'm sure that everything is working fine on it, I'm just not sure how everything works and there are probably things on there that I don't even realise yet. Dale talked me through the basics but his set up sounds like it is slightly different to mine.
From what I have seen of the system working and what I have heard from others, this system is the dogs dangly bits when it comes to hot water WFP, at the moment it is the operator who is the weak link!
I am expecting that we will be predominantly using the system as a cold water system, but you never know, if we find that the hot water gives superior results in every case, then we'll use it as such.
I welcome all comments and advice, however I will run the system as it is designed to be run until such a time that I think I know better. At the end of the day we got the system for a fraction of it's cost new and probably cheaper than a lot of lesser quality cold water systems that are being advertised.
Time will tell.
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If two window cleaners are cleaning heavily soiled windows, one with a cold WFP system and the other with a hot WFP system, the one using the hot WFP system will when hands down everytime. Someone should set up a comparison just to prove the obvious.
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If two window cleaners are cleaning heavily soiled windows, one with a cold WFP system and the other with a hot WFP system, the one using the hot WFP system will when hands down everytime. Someone should set up a comparison just to prove the obvious.
Wayne,
You've got a hot water system I do believe. Which one is it?
What temp do you usually work at?
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auh contraire, not so. Hot, warm, however you want to describe it, it's better.
As for cracking glass upvc frames and windows can take near boiling, it's only wooden older and thick opqque glass that gives problems.
You are allowed to do it a different way and I don't know about isopropanol, but hot works, all seasons, all situations.
Just seen your last post usa, mine were bathroom scolloped glass in wooden frame, also small panes rather than larger.
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These 'broken panes' are they insulated glass windows or are they single pane windows?
These will be single glazed units.
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Mines the Omnipole one with a set temperature of 60 degrees.
There are several ways of reducing the temperature in winter so that you're not using water that is too hot so you don't crack any panes of glass.
The main advantage of a hot WFP system in the cold winter is the ability to continue working when cold WFP users have to take their hoses and stuff out of their vans overnight or put heaters in their vans if the temperature drops below freezing or struggle with water freezing in their hoses or pump.
In the summer, the glass is hot with the sun baking on it for hours so there is less need for a hot WFP system as the heat of the sun will warm the water stored in hose laying on the ground anyway. However the water can dry too quickly so more water is needed sometimes to ensure all the dirt has thoroughly been loosened and removed in comparison to a normal wash on a typical cloudy day.
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Mines the Omnipole one with a set temperature of 60 degrees.
There are several ways of reducing the temperature in winter so that you're not using water that is too hot so you don't crack any panes of glass.
The main advantage of a hot WFP system in the cold winter is the ability to continue working when cold WFP users have to take their hoses and stuff out of their vans overnight or put heaters in their vans if the temperature drops below freezing or struggle with water freezing in their hoses or pump.
In the summer, the glass is hot with the sun baking on it for hours so there is less need for a hot WFP system as the heat of the sun will warm the water stored in hose laying on the ground anyway. However the water can dry too quickly so more water is needed sometimes to ensure all the dirt has thoroughly been loosened and removed in comparison to a normal wash on a typical cloudy day.
So, does the system provide an advantage over cold water in the summer due to the fact that the hot water will act differently then cold water on hot glass?
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I Think so, although you didn;t ask me. but forget the glass additionaly the cleaning of the frames and sills is better ,less time sonsuming, and nearly perfect. If the brush is contaminateed for any reason it clears very fast. I could go from a filthy gutter straight onto a window. (I would go back for a quick rinse after next window).
The reason I can run hot is that the cost is negligible.
We've all got our opinions, but i run hot always and much prefer it. The only con I can think of is milky paint work but I could think of twenty pros
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So, does the system provide an advantage over cold water in the summer due to the fact that the hot water will act differently then cold water on hot glass?
It does IF you are cleaning heavily soiled windows (new cleans), heavily bombarded windows from the birds, salted windows. Simply because it's much quicker to scrub the glass thus saving time, effort and energy.
I forgot to mention I use it for showery days / foggy days so the water I put on the glass dries before the the rain / dirt in the air contaminates the water on the glass so my cleans remain cleaned.
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well all I know is that the windows I broke were double glazed and quite new !!!! so your theory of the old
stuff is out the window so to speak ;D
ok 26 degrees might be a little low for really hot days but imo its hot enough for early mornings mid and afternoon
work without running to the van and turning it down .......in the front of the house it might be bloody hot BUT the back is a different story as you all know
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hot should work well on conservatory roof cleans, and there mostly plastic anyhow
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Mines the Omnipole one with a set temperature of 60 degrees.
There are several ways of reducing the temperature in winter so that you're not using water that is too hot so you don't crack any panes of glass.
The main advantage of a hot WFP system in the cold winter is the ability to continue working when cold WFP users have to take their hoses and stuff out of their vans overnight or put heaters in their vans if the temperature drops below freezing or struggle with water freezing in their hoses or pump.
In the summer, the glass is hot with the sun baking on it for hours so there is less need for a hot WFP system as the heat of the sun will warm the water stored in hose laying on the ground anyway. However the water can dry too quickly so more water is needed sometimes to ensure all the dirt has thoroughly been loosened and removed in comparison to a normal wash on a typical cloudy day.
Isopropanol will stop hoses ie pole and hosereel from freezing up i promise you that,the thing is the majority of all your cleans are not first cleans and i don`t hear of anybody using it in the summer and if there were they`d be wasting deisel.
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Hi NWH,
I don't use hot water in the summer unless there are benefits as mentioned in my previous posts. So don't fall off your chair in shock but I agree with you; why would anyone want to waste money using diesel unless necessary or beneficial.
I've got some Isopropanol (off ebay) but haven't got around to trying it yet, will do one day.
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why use diesel??? use kerosene its less than half the price
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I'm alright using red diesel. Will Kerosene do any damage to the heater unit in the long term? Also, would I be able to use cooking oil?
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Wayne, I still find hot on hot days beneficial, but each to their own. You couldn't tell me a bit more about the varitech flow controller could you. ?
I've got three varistream controlers and three pumps but I'm forever having to fiddle and swap and compensate. I hate down time so I like options.
Also do you think that hose of Alex's is a bit dear (£300 100m) or is it okay?
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Wayne, I still find hot on hot days beneficial, but each to their own. You couldn't tell me a bit more about the varitech flow controller could you. ?
I've got three varistream controlers and three pumps but I'm forever having to fiddle and swap and compensate. I hate down time so I like options.
Also do you think that hose of Alex's is a bit dear (£300 100m) or is it okay?
Hello Clive,
I've no problems working with a varitech flow controller and Flojet pump. I manage to get more than adequate flow to work with.
I use it to fill a WCW 15L backpack in 2 mins straight from the hose on the reel when I turn the dial up to half way, really quick for access problems.
The flow controller is straight forward as there is a dial to set to your own preference and an on/off toggle switch.
The only time I adjust it is when I'm cleaning houses with much larger panes of glass or conservatories as I want my water flow much faster.
I wish I'd gone back to Flojet pumps ages ago.
Admitted they are noisy but I'm not bothered as I'm not near the van when I'm working anyway.
That 8mm minibore thermohose is expensive but then again it is unique because it's never been manufactured that diameter before. It would cost the same amount to buy the same length from Ionics in standard hose size as a comparison. I would rather pay £300 for thermominibore hose from Gardiners than £300 for Ionics normal heavyweight hose.
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any diesel will and has clogged up my burner head 3 times in 3 years resulting in buying a new one
but burning kerosene as in heating oil WHICH is what it is designed for .....keeps it alot cleaner the
thermo 90 s runs a bit quieter as well and strangely seems to last a bit longer to
Also you don't get that horrible oil burning smell and we use to get quite a bit of smoke on some days
but not on kerosene
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any diesel will and has clogged up my burner head 3 times in 3 years resulting in buying a new one
but burning kerosene as in heating oil WHICH is what it is designed for .....keeps it alot cleaner the
thermo 90 s runs a bit quieter as well and strangely seems to last a bit longer to
Also you don't get that horrible oil burning smell and we use to get quite a bit of smoke on some days
but not on kerosene
Edd,
where can you get Kerosene from cheap?
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from most of my custys who r not in
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only joking from when the guy delivers our oil ive got a 200 litre oil drum and he fills it at the same time
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from most of my custys who r not in
Smart answer, wish I'd thought of that. Trouble is the police are on the lookout for thieves around my way siphoning diesel tanks at the moment. Where can I get some cheap kerosene legally?
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pics
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I find it unbeleivable how much altering you have had to do to your system to get it working 'properly' especially considering the price. ::)
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I think he`s made a few alterations so it dosen`t munch the resin as much,your resin will last so much longer with these systems if you use a DI vessel instead of there cartridges or resin after the cartridge.They hold nothing in them compared to a vessel,but they like that cos they don`t last as long and you have to keep buying them.
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My understanding is that he has done a bit more to it then just add the DI tank.
He mentioned that he had to add a thermal mixing device.
What else have you done to it to make it work properly, v8edd?