Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dave0123 on May 04, 2008, 12:36:19 pm

Title: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 04, 2008, 12:36:19 pm
Hi

just looking at setting my 40 inch RO up its stainless steel just wonderding on the ends of the housing it has one cap for the pure water and one for the waste water. also on the input of the housing it has the same two holes?

is that right? or do i have 1 wrong cap.. because i thought in the inlet of the housing would just pe one hole as thats all that connects to it.


dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 04, 2008, 12:42:17 pm
Hi Dave

Both end caps are the same.

The inlet end of the membrane has a rubber seal on it, to this end the end cap should be blanked in the centre hole and the inlet water should come in on the outer hole.

The outlet end has no rubber seal on the membrane, the end cap is identical to the inlet end cap except that the centre hole is for the pure water and the outer hole is for the waste water.  To this you should connect the quarter turn valve so you can regulate the back pressure.

Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 04, 2008, 12:43:41 pm
ahh thanks alan,

so once the membrane is installed the correct way should all come clear  :D
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 04, 2008, 12:44:56 pm
yeah, you should have got a blanking plug for the inlet - it goes on the centre thread.

any more probs just shout - really loud.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 04, 2008, 12:53:07 pm
I havent recived any sort of blanking plug for it, just looked at all the conections
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 04, 2008, 01:46:24 pm
any engineering/plumbing supplier will stock a blanking plug for it - half inch bspt.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 04, 2008, 03:16:56 pm
yer thanks alan,

will pop into local plumber tuesday
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 02:00:02 pm
I have another question regarding the 40 INCH RO


just mouting it in garage and carnt figure out how brackets. iv bolted the 2 blackets to the wall and placed the housing into it. Then theres 2 other bits of plastic but dont seem to clip on anywere or anything carnt figure it out.

can anyone who has 4040 RO please help  :)


dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: colinyates on May 06, 2008, 04:12:21 pm
The brackets go on a certain way, just try turning them round and they should click on.

Colin
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 05:31:58 pm
i have tried they go on but not how they should there to loose
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: colinyates on May 06, 2008, 05:38:03 pm
I also had a problem with my corbra clamps for my Di and ended up wrapping a rubber sealer round them so the clamps went tight. Not the answer though!
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 08:26:13 pm
its the second bit thats the problem once you have pushed the housing in then the little bit that completes the bracket doesnt really go on.

there still being held but just not very tight il have a play later.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 06, 2008, 09:12:53 pm
This is how i click mine in...
i hook the bottom one in first then push in the middle and it clicks the top in fine, you may need to fiddle about abit with it..

Hope this helps...

Bazz...
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 09:20:24 pm
Thanks bazzy

do you have to press hard?? do they fit snug onto the housing or just lose?
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 06, 2008, 09:33:29 pm
give it a good push and it should snap in... try the next slot if it dont work and turn it over the other way round aswell... it will fit and fit very tightly but the trick is to hook one end in first then push in the middle and the other will click in... its a bit of a pain but once its in you wont move it.. ;D

Bazz...
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 09:50:49 pm
think i must have a diffrent ones because theres no chance there going to click in there just isn not enuf space.. il take a picture in the morning and show you.


are the plastic housesing a diffrent size to the stainless steel ones maybe? only thing i could think is i have wrong ones?
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 06, 2008, 09:56:50 pm
I would of thought there be the same size (Inside) but outside could be a little smaller..
Stick a pic up when you have a chance and ill have a look..

Bazz...
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 10:05:14 pm
il stick a pick up in the morning mate.

the stainless steel is strong so just thinking maybe the plastic on the outside is slightly bigger and i have the plastic ones as theres loads of splaces 2 push up to click in but.. just wont go in used lots of force then but no chance lol.... so if the are 2 diffrent sizes i would need a smaller one which would be bit easy to push up not as much... so it  clicks in

if that makes sence.. il post a pic anyway in morning
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 06, 2008, 11:03:52 pm
dave, the outside diameter of the steel housings is slightly less than the plastic.  Easiest way round this is a very small amount of sponge/foam between the housing and the clamps.  Will tighten it up nicely.

bet your glad you went for the stainless steel?  Nice looking ain't they?
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 06, 2008, 11:11:17 pm
Whats the difference between the stainless steel ones and the plastic ones (performance wise)?

Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 11:23:21 pm
i dont no havent got it working yet lol.

i dont think there is a diffrence just stronger etc for an extra 25.00 it was well worth it
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 06, 2008, 11:27:58 pm
Thanks alan,

will give that ago 2morra! thought the stainless steel would be slightly less as its very strong but thin were if you had that thin on plastic it wouldnt be so strong if that makes sence?

yess pleased with the stainless streel  ;D very strong arnt they haha! had bit of trouble getting the end caps in very tight fit had to be nocked in slightly couldnt imagine doing that with a plastic one? unless they connect diffrent.. Also got that clarke booster pump today and some fittings to reduce down to 1/2 standard hose so should be up and running tommorow.

thanks for your help! dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 06, 2008, 11:35:09 pm
no problemo davo.

the best way to seat the end caps is to get a little bit of pure water and wet the o-rings, should slide in easy (no jokes please)
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 07, 2008, 12:24:54 am
Tar Alan,


I didnt think of using water and didnt want to use anything else in case it interfered with the system.

Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 07, 2008, 07:20:19 pm
yeah a little bit of pure water is fine, even a little bit of water ran through a carbon filter first (to remove chlorine) will do the same.

hope its all going well now
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: tompoole on May 08, 2008, 07:55:37 am
hi
Dave, what Tds readings  before di do you get compared to your last ro

Cheers

Tom
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 09:38:44 am
Quote
hope its all going well now


it is so far  ;D



tompoole,

still havent got it running yet mate, should have running tonight sometime.

been busy yestaday so didnt have much time to do anything setting it up in garage.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 03:21:24 pm
Iv just started running the system and i have a pressure gage before the filteres which is saying 15psi and after the filters the gage hasnt even moved? could there be a simple  explanation for this?


dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: colley614 on May 08, 2008, 07:56:31 pm
Hi Dave,

Bit off topic mate but have you notice a sharp increase in tds today. Checked mine this morning before stopped filling and it was 140ppm. Come back this evening and started filling and its at 255ppm plus the pressure has gone up by 10 psi?
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: windowwashers on May 08, 2008, 08:16:00 pm
Iv just started running the system and i have a pressure gage before the filteres which is saying 15psi and after the filters the gage hasnt even moved? could there be a simple  explanation for this?


dave
you have a pressure problem
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 08:22:40 pm
Quote
you have a pressure problem


think iv sorted that now! i didnt have the tap value slightly closed soon as i started to close it over both gauges shot up!  dont no if thats normal. still low pressure tho  :-\ havent got pump set up yet tho so that should sort it out.


Quote
Bit off topic mate but have you notice a sharp increase in tds today. Checked mine this morning before stopped filling and it was 140ppm. Come back this evening and started filling and its at 255ppm plus the pressure has gone up by 10 psi?

your tds is normaly 140ppm? got u lucky git mines normaly about 380 - 400 todays its 340 lowest ever iv seen it. not sure about pressure mines allways bin crap from tap.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: colley614 on May 08, 2008, 08:28:46 pm
When I put my membrane back flush on the pressure drops by about 40psi. If thats what you mean? Plus when I first set up my waste pipe hadn't been inserted correctly so I was getting a back log of pressure. One day I leaned on it as the pressure gauge shot up.

Have you seen biscute lately? did he sell up or is he still knocking about?
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 09:25:54 pm
Carnt seem to get the TDS down below 39  ???
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 08, 2008, 09:35:49 pm
dave

you need to leave the valve open fully for 2 hrs or so on the first run to get all the preservative out of the membrane.

If your pressure is low (lower than 55psi) then get yourself a booster pump, the ones I gave you links to will be fine and you don't need one with a pressure regulator as that is what the valve is for - you can regulate the pressure yourself.

A pump will only set you back £80 - £100 and will increase production, reduce tds and preserve the life of your membrane and save you more resin.

From 350ppm with a pump you should be looking at a tds of about 007ppm.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 09:39:57 pm
i have run the system with the tap open for a good 2 hours and ran with tap a little closhed for about hour n half.

i do have this pump just havent set it up yet


www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cbm240e-1in-multi-stage-230v-booster-pum
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 08, 2008, 09:50:57 pm
ok if you have everything I can talk it through with you now if you want.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 09:54:32 pm
 thanks Alan,

 on setting the pump up?

i have one or two connectios to get in the morning! thats y i have just connected up without the pump today.


do you think with the pump running it will come down lower than 10ppm ??
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 08, 2008, 09:59:17 pm
depending on the chemical make up of your water it should do - what membrane did you get?  If you got the desal membrane I think it has a typical rejection of 98% so in theory yes 007ppm is reasonable.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 10:02:31 pm
the one i got was...


Osmonics Desal AK4040TF Membrane,

maybe if it doesnt come down after pump might need a water softener.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 08, 2008, 10:24:03 pm
I'd be really surprised if it doesn't come down, your water is hard but I have known of ones with higher tap tds getting low output below 010ppm.

let me know how you get on with the pump
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 08, 2008, 10:50:46 pm
Thanks alan will do,

will flush it for another few hours in morning too.



dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: Spursboy1972 on May 09, 2008, 06:42:17 am
Jay from Grafters has bought a 40/40 from Pure freedom and his TDS is about 5-7 after RO. Our water here is about 450ppm sometimes a lot higher than that.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: windowwashers on May 09, 2008, 09:16:16 am
Jay from Grafters has bought a 40/40 from Pure freedom and his TDS is about 5-7 after RO. Our water here is about 450ppm sometimes a lot higher than that.
my tds is over 470 and I have a 4040, tds out about 19
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 09, 2008, 09:58:34 am
Im just flushing it for abit longer this morning see what happens.


dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 09, 2008, 05:45:06 pm
Alan you about?


just set pump up worked gr8 brought the TDS  down to 13 proberly will bring it down more just had to turn it off because of a leak lol which going 2 sort that out.

but 1 question on the gauges its still low states low pressure because i have installed the pump after the pre filters and after the 2 gauges so is that right? that it should be low its defrently doing its job tho its pumping out tuns of pure!

dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: windowwashers on May 09, 2008, 05:49:40 pm
Alan you about?


just set pump up worked gr8 brought the TDS  down to 13 proberly will bring it down more just had to turn it off because of a leak lol which going 2 sort that out.

but 1 question on the gauges its still low states low pressure because i have installed the pump after the pre filters and after the 2 gauges so is that right? that it should be low its defrently doing its job tho its pumping out tuns of pure!

dave
I had a pump before the prefilters myself worked perfect (cheers Jerry fosters)
I have it after the salt softener vessel.

your gauges will stay the same as your tap pressure because and I hope I am right on this the pump holds water then realeases at high pressure forcing it through the membrane.

Ian
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 09, 2008, 05:55:47 pm
yer just wanted to make sure..

so its boosting on the output stage of the pump..



dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: windowwashers on May 10, 2008, 03:48:10 pm
yer just wanted to make sure..

so its boosting on the output stage of the pump..



dave
yep
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 10, 2008, 04:36:46 pm
ok dave I'll go through this again

1 - sediment filter
2 - carbon filter
3 - booster pump
4 - in your case pressure guage
5 - 4040 membrane

You should have the guages AFTER the booster pump and before the membrane to know what pressure your membrane is operating under.

You want to run the membrane at 80 - 90psi.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 10, 2008, 06:12:22 pm
Thanks Alan,

iv set the two gauges before the pump aparently this is to let you know when the pre filteres need changing.. i have just stoped all the leaks haha dont want to change everything now... might just put another gauge between the pump and membrane as i have one spare.


dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 12:37:58 am
Tompoole

just to let you know now i have my system running.

its alot better than the tiny little purefreedom RO. in normal use with my purefreedom RO i was getting it down to 24 with booster pump at getting 1 litre neally every 2mins just over about 28 lit per hour.

with the 4040 RO bringing the TDS down to 13 with booster pump and its a good pump really does the job! and now getting 1 litre of pure every 18 seconds  ;D

so am happy means neally halfed my tds output so resin should last longer nice and easy to use.


dave

Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: windowwashers on May 11, 2008, 01:35:40 am
ok dave I'll go through this again

1 - sediment filter
2 - carbon filter
3 - booster pump
4 - in your case pressure guage
5 - 4040 membrane

You should have the guages AFTER the booster pump and before the membrane to know what pressure your membrane is operating under.

You want to run the membrane at 80 - 90psi.
Alan, why do you have the booster pump after pre filters ??
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 02:28:12 am
RO man recomend his pump to go before prefilters even tho i tried both there was no diffrence. i just set mine up after prefilters as thats what everyone else on here seems to do.

Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 11, 2008, 01:07:22 pm
I recommend the pump after the prefilters as

a) you won't lose operating pressure when the filters start to clog
b) you aren't subjecting the prefilter housings to prolonged (creep stress) where even though they are operating within their pressure limits they still may fracture over time - common engineering problem.
c) the water you are passing through the pump is filtered so less chance of dirt etc entering the pump.

hope this helps.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 11, 2008, 02:32:03 pm
Alan,


Thanks for all your help mate and everyone else it really is appreciated.

Just started filling my tank been running for 1 hour now and its just hit 200lit in the IBC from a empty tank :D


dave
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 12, 2008, 10:18:24 pm
dave not a problem, not a problem.

what pressure are you running the membrane at?

what is the tds coming out of the membrane?
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 13, 2008, 12:14:26 am
Not sure on the pressure am running it at yest Alan i set my gauges up before pump. Im just waiting on a T peice to connect between the pump and ro to show pressure.

the TDS coming down to 13-14 now so really pleased  ;D
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: alanwilson on May 13, 2008, 06:54:18 pm
I still think your tds is far too high - I suppose you could just run 2 di vessels in-line after the ro in the same way as we do, resin costs are minimal too. 
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: windowwashers on May 13, 2008, 07:22:26 pm
I still think your tds is far too high - I suppose you could just run 2 di vessels in-line after the ro in the same way as we do, resin costs are minimal too. 
100% agree with that one, 2 di's will save alot on resin over a year.
Title: Re: 4040 RO
Post by: dave0123 on May 13, 2008, 08:32:11 pm
Quote
still think your tds is far too high - I suppose you could just run 2 di vessels in-line after the ro in the same way as we do, resin costs are minimal too


Thats the lowest i can get it down to, i mite look into that soon once i have got some money back in the bank  ;D


I flush this out every day as i dont fill my tank everyday so i keeping the system flushed so membrane does not dry out and also keeps it running top notch. only a few hours a day.