Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: simon knight on May 03, 2008, 08:18:48 am
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Doing the insides yesterday and the custy had a couple of mates round for a Chardonnay afternoon. They were chit-chatting about this and that and the conversation got around to tax.
The lady of the house said to me: " Do you pay tax Simon...fill in a tax return?"
She seemed genuinely surprised when I said "yes".
I'm now assuming that all my custys think I'm on the fiddle >:(
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Many of mine try to give me cash because they think it's not declared.
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thats nothing. one of my custys last week could not believe that window cleaners actualy do it as full time job. ive been cleaning there windows for nin years
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Yeah sometimes people pay me with cash and say something like "there you go, you can keep that quiet can't you".
Obviously the beer money brigade and the like don't declare everything... But if you're trying to run a proper business everything needs to do through the books!
Andy
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Iv had that aswell.
iv had some cheques given to me and said here you go ;) you can write it out to whoever you want lol.
the other day which i was shocked by was i did a new clean on a house and the person said next door i think are looking for window cleaner so i ring the bell little lad answerd the door! i said hi is your mum or dad in?? he went to get his mum came back and said exactly what she said him not knowing being young it was " she doesnt want to talk to you" i was like errm oh ok then! just hope i get asked next time to clean her windows my reply will be " sorry i dont want to talk to you ;D "
lol
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Many of mine try to give me cash because they think it's not declared.
Nearly all of my customers are BACS or cheque into my buisness account that way everybody is happy!!
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I get this too. "Can I give you a cheque?". Me: "Certainly, it all goes into the bank". They look a little surprised. I have a few that now pay directly, but it's a struggle. The upside is my 9 year old lads maths are really coming on now I get him to add up the cash at the end of the week :)
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This is why it’s up to professional window cleaners to change the image of the industry. Get the trade associations to get the public to only use professionals.
Soon as the public start to ask the window cleaner are you a professional, and then hopefully there will be a drastic decrease in cash in the hand window cleaners.
Think of all the benefits if this did happen.
Ewan :)
Wasting your time.
You'll never change what people think.
We're doing a working class unskilled cleaning job.
That's what it is, that's what it will always be.
No amount of expensive kit or nice van will change that.
I can't believe people are surprised customers say these things. ???
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Squeaky, I agree with you. I find it hard to get people to pay me directly or even by cheque, but I'm not surprised. I also think that if some of these people realised what we can earn they'd think hard about the price they pay. Sometimes it can pay to play the daft laddie.
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About 15 years ago I had a house on my round. The chap was a tax inspector but he always paid me cash. He had a semi. His neighbour told me one time that they both had double glazing installed at the same time and the taxman insisted they get a company that would accept cash. He even gave me a tip at xmas. Shows everyone is human, well most of them
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This is why it’s up to professional window cleaners to change the image of the industry. Get the trade associations to get the public to only use professionals.
Soon as the public start to ask the window cleaner are you a professional, and then hopefully there will be a drastic decrease in cash in the hand window cleaners.
Think of all the benefits if this did happen.
Ewan :)
Ewan
Are you a member of one ?
Dave
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I guess it might be hard to change the attitudes of some people.... but in the end, does it really matter?
Whether they think we're paying tax or not, or earning a million quid an hour - money is money, whether is cash, cheque, bacs, paypal.... as long as we're happy and we're being honest, legal and up front about all our earnings then thats what matters :)
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This is why it’s up to professional window cleaners to change the image of the industry. Get the trade associations to get the public to only use professionals.
Soon as the public start to ask the window cleaner are you a professional, and then hopefully there will be a drastic decrease in cash in the hand window cleaners.
Think of all the benefits if this did happen.
Ewan :)
Wasting your time.
You'll never change what people think.
We're doing a working class unskilled cleaning job.
That's what it is, that's what it will always be.
No amount of expensive kit or nice van will change that.
I can't believe people are surprised customers say these things. ???
exactly, times are changing, no longer are we seen as the " stan ogden window cleaner ", but i feel with the influx of eastern europeans, we just may be heading back down that road, except it will be staniski ogdeniski
I guess it might be hard to change the attitudes of some people.... but in the end, does it really matter?
Whether they think we're paying tax or not, or earning a million quid an hour - money is money, whether is cash, cheque, bacs, paypal.... as long as we're happy and we're being honest, legal and up front about all our earnings then thats what matters :)
i find the idea when some of my customers say the odd remark aout " will check be ok" it entertains me
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This is why it’s up to professional window cleaners to change the image of the industry. Get the trade associations to get the public to only use professionals.
Soon as the public start to ask the window cleaner are you a professional, and then hopefully there will be a drastic decrease in cash in the hand window cleaners.
Think of all the benefits if this did happen.
Ewan :)
Wasting your time.
You'll never change what people think.
We're doing a working class unskilled cleaning job.
That's what it is, that's what it will always be.
No amount of expensive kit or nice van will change that.
I can't believe people are surprised customers say these things. ???
exactly, times are changing, no longer are we seen as the " stan ogden window cleaner ", but i feel with the influx of eastern europeans, we just may be heading back down that road, except it will be staniski ogdeniski
I guess it might be hard to change the attitudes of some people.... but in the end, does it really matter?
Whether they think we're paying tax or not, or earning a million quid an hour - money is money, whether is cash, cheque, bacs, paypal.... as long as we're happy and we're being honest, legal and up front about all our earnings then thats what matters :)
i find the idea when some of my customers say the odd remark aout " will check be ok" it entertains me
According to news recently , many eastern europeans are going back home because their former employers have wised up ! They are now paying decent wages because of the shortage of workforce !
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There trying to get most of them back to help build the stadiums for the football in a couple of years.
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i used to get realy wound up by the way people view us >:( but the bigger my round grows and the more i earn ...the less i care...iv been a wc for 16 yrs and now im starting to reap my hard work...peoples ignorance is my advantage..
i pay tax .... im insured ...etc....and i like it when people feel sorry for me and give me a tip..
:P :P :P
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Does it really matter how somone views you ? If you are doing well, thank you very much . . . . . ignorance is bliss isnt it ?
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thats what i :P :Pwas trying to say :P :P
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There are a few on my round that I got when the old window cleaner got to cold in the autumn and stopped coming. They saw me cleaning in the same street and asked me. All of these NEW custies always say stuff like " I always leave enough cash in the house cos I know you window cleaners wont take cheques" or " the old cleaner only wanted cash, I suppose you are the same" WINK. It does make me smile when I say a cheque will be fine. They always say "payable to you is it?" No , heres my card, make it payable to the business name please.
The average pay for men in the UK in 2007 was £26,000
Where I live the avaerage pay is so much lower than that. Probably to the sum of 10 k lower than that.
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i've had a few whos jaws drop when i ask them to make cheques payable to my company name.
march just gone i had a customa ive been doing for a year ask '' so this window cleaning lark is it something your doing full time now?'' he said this as i stood there in my logo shirt and signwritten veacheal out side. he then said ''its only i was going to offer you a job. you would be on good money £400 per week take home''. he grinned at me like a smug footballer that had just given a 14 year old lad £2 for cleaninghis boots for him. i told him i was gonna stick at it. lol ! fool my dads been cleaning windows for 20 years and could buy all of his cars, house, pearants house business and wife off him and still probaly have enough in the bank to emergrate to austraila.
i surpose hi did mean well.
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i've had a few whos jaws drop when i ask them to make cheques payable to my company name.
march just gone i had a customa ive been doing for a year ask '' so this window cleaning lark is it something your doing full time now?'' he said this as i stood there in my logo shirt and signwritten veacheal out side. he then said ''its only i was going to offer you a job. you would be on good money £400 per week take home''. he grinned at me like a smug footballer that had just given a 14 year old lad £2 for cleaninghis boots for him. i told him i was gonna stick at it. lol ! fool my dads been cleaning windows for 20 years and could buy all of his cars, house, pearants house business and wife off him and still probaly have enough in the bank to emergrate to austraila.
I had a customer recently offered me £50 a day to come and work for him on a Saturday. He seemed quite suprised when I turned him down.
i surpose hi did mean well.
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I sometimes live in the past and think back to the jobs that I used have...good wage's,holiday pay, bonus, car, fuel, computers...blah, blah...but thats easy...I tend not to think about the stress, politics, backbiting....that used to go with it.
Next year will see my income reach the same standard wage of my last job...ok, not so many physical perks but I like yourselves have so many other advantages within this field....I suppose it is too easy to forget the positives and dwell on the negatives when the real truth is that our profession can be what we choose to make it.... ;D ;D
An as far as customers perceptions I try not to think about that too much....
Dave
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I guess it might be hard to change the attitudes of some people.... but in the end, does it really matter?
Whether they think we're paying tax or not, or earning a million quid an hour - money is money, whether is cash, cheque, bacs, paypal.... as long as we're happy and we're being honest, legal and up front about all our earnings then thats what matters :)
Does it really matter how somone views you ? If you are doing well, thank you very much . . . . . ignorance is bliss isnt it ?
I don't particularly care how people how people view my work, as Squeaks said to some people it will always be an unskilled working class cleaning job and their attitude will never change.
That said I do mind if people automatically assume that any cash money isn't declared. Unfortunately there are probably plenty of w/c'ers (and of course I'm not referring to anybody who uses this forum) who wouldn't dream of declaring cash.
I suppose the big boys with the sign written vans and uniforms are perceived in a better light but the likes of me, with my ladders over shoulders and tatty jeans are always going to be viewed with cynicism. Which is a shame because I work hard and am honest with my earnings. Oh well!
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I suppose the big boys with the sign written vans and uniforms are perceived in a better light but the likes of me, with my ladders over shoulders and tatty jeans are always going to be viewed with cynicism. Which is a shame because I work hard and am honest with my earnings. Oh well!
Don't let it bother you Simon.
I've got a big new sign written van, but sod it if I'm going to wear some poncey uniform.
Nowt wrong with jeans mate, proper working clothes. ;)
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I suppose the big boys with the sign written vans and uniforms are perceived in a better light but the likes of me, with my ladders over shoulders and tatty jeans are always going to be viewed with cynicism. Which is a shame because I work hard and am honest with my earnings. Oh well!
Don't let it bother you Simon.
I've got a big new sign written van, but sod it if I'm going to wear some poncey uniform.
Nowt wrong with jeans mate, proper working clothes. ;)
Hear hear!! :D :D
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Have to admit that I prefer something that resembles a uniform...it then means that when I have finished work I put on my civvies and feel different....nice to have a change..
Dave.
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I also think that if some of these people realised what we can earn they'd think hard about the price they pay. Sometimes it can pay to play the daft laddie.
Ewan, The average pay for men in the UK in 2007 was £26,000 plus you get holiday pay, a lot will get full pay when they are on sick. They can do overtime and a lot will get a bonus each year and they don’t have the expense of running a window cleaning business!
Average pay figures are worthless. The top 5 or 10% earn so much that they distort the figures beyond recognition. The point I made above is valid I think. The money I take from some of my clients takes them much much longer to earn than it does me.
How many self employed window cleaners on this forum earns a lot more than the national average (or at least the same)
Ewan :)
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I agree with squeaky,the job is seen kinda like a skivvy,the punters think u r doing it as a sideline. 5 yrs ago I took my pcv test so I had a backup income for the winter, a few thought the coach driving was full time and the window cleaning just for when the buses were quiet. They were surprised when I said that the w/c has always been my "bread and butter" and the coaches the back up
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Squeaky, I agree with you. I find it hard to get people to pay me directly or even by cheque, but I'm not surprised. I also think that if some of these people realised what we can earn they'd think hard about the price they pay. Sometimes it can pay to play the daft laddie.
Too right ;D ;D ;D
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I also think that if some of these people realised what we can earn they'd think hard about the price they pay. Sometimes it can pay to play the daft laddie.
The average pay for men in the UK in 2007 was £26,000 plus you get holiday pay, a lot will get full pay when they are on sick. They can do overtime and a lot will get a bonus each year and they don’t have the expense of running a window cleaning business!
How many self employed window cleaners on this forum earns a lot more than the national average (or at least the same)
Ewan :)
£26k certainly isnt the average in Stoke-On-Trent where I come from. Most of my mates who have decent trades are lucky to earn that.
I know what you are saying though. ::)
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If you was earning £26k in the south you wouldn`t be buying your own house,if a bloke and his girlfreind both earn`t £26k that would mean they could borrow £208,000 combined therefore no house round these parts,26k these days isn`t great.
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i would say that most people would be lucky to bring home £300 a week, national average is a load of crap and as someone as just said its the very very high earners that has set this average...
ive been in this business 10 years now and earn good money but i can honestly say i would not be able to tell you what a good wage would be... (in other jobs)
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If you was earning £26k in the south you wouldn`t be buying your own house,if a bloke and his girlfreind both earn`t £26k that would mean they could borrow £208,000 combined therefore no house round these parts,26k these days isn`t great.
you cant compare wages with house prices, house prices have risen about 400% in 10 years, wages nothing like that....
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What i was meaning to say was these days £26k does appear to be the average wage,it`s not bad but it`s not good either.
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most of my mates would love to earn 26k, it is good but i know what your saying it just dosnt get you much which is the way things have gone unfortunately....
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I agree, it's more than most people I know earn.
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saying that you would come out with £390 (approx) off 26k its good but it dosnt buy you much because were all being ripped off left right and centre....
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i would say that most people would be lucky to bring home £300 a week, national average is a load of crap and as someone as just said its the very very high earners that has set this average...
ive been in this business 10 years now and earn good money but i can honestly say i would not be able to tell you what a good wage would be... (in other jobs)
very true
anyone who pays attention to the mythical "average" wage is not getting a real picture of wages in this country
I would like to see a "modal" wage instead
would show what the MAJORITY of workers earn
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I don't know where some of you live but £500pw plus is normal around here ( B'ham) area for most workers in any trade as far as i know. I was doing £350pw 10 yrs ago on the windows (comercial) for a three day week. Mind you had a 6 yr break now wfp just about doing the same.
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I don't know where some of you live but £500pw plus is normal around here ( B'ham) area for most workers in any trade as far as i know. I was doing £350pw 10 yrs ago on the windows (comercial) for a three day week. Mind you had a 6 yr break now wfp just about doing the same.
you come from a posh area then mate...
there is a couple of my friends who earn 500 pw+ but i can guarentee the majority will earn a lot less.
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no just normal
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most workers in any trade ???
how much extra do tesco pay per hour in birmingham then ???
a post on here a while ago about a delivery driver for them taking home £250 a week
when you say trade do you mean builders,plumbers,sparkies etc.
or just anyone(shop workers,hairdressers,factory workers)
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26k is an ok-ish wage but if you go down the job centre you wont see many jobs advertised paying 26k in Devon. Lousy wage really if you're trying to get on the property ladder. I'm just glad I got a mortgage on my own 14 years ago 'cause I couldn't do it now.
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An average wage is not the same as a typical wage because it includes the pay of barristers, lawyers, bankers in the city, footballers etc. This distorts the figures.
If you have one man earning £10K and another earning £100K their average pay is £55K.
What is more significant, but harder to evaluate is how many "decent" jobs out there compared to the number of rubbish minimum wage jobs on offer.
Slowly but steadily the various industries and major employers have been shedding jobs and closing down as they lost out to places like China.
The people displaced have been unable to get jobs of equivilent pay elsewhere and have been forced to take jobs they never would have considered in the past.
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Alot of people are under the misconception that anyone who is self employed and running their own business is raking the dosh in,they have no idea that we have to pay tax and nat ins as a lump sum,accountants fees, insurance etc. As a result of this,window cleaners are expected to do the job for beer money, because we don't have many overheads in the eyes of the average Joe public. They don't think we pay mortgages/rent/council tax and fuel bills, thats why they are shocked when they get quotes for their windows to be cleaned. These folk need educating that window cleaning is a proper trade and not just a beer & fAg money job
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That's why I believe licensing in England would work well. If the DSS and HMRC are notified once someone applies for a license, the dole bludgers and 'Incapacitated' window cleaners will disappear and prices will be driven up.
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That's why I believe licensing in England would work well. If the DSS and HMRC are notified once someone applies for a license, the dole bludgers and 'Incapacitated' window cleaners will disappear and prices will be driven up.
And it will be another tax for us that run a business the right way.
The dole boys and Incapacitated should be policed more because at the end of the day they are in the wrong not us.
Thats my view on it, now if it was totally free I would be for it.
Ian
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Hi Ian
I agree, it will be a tax on us but if it was enforced properly, I would willingly pay it. I know in an ideal world we shouldn't have to and these guys should be policed better but that isn't how it is.
Think how many new customers would be floating about if all the dole boys suddenly dissappeared.
Another point is that the guys starting up would have a little more expense to deal with. They would have a license fee as well as insurance to pay for. It would cut out some of the rounds being destroyed by newbies quoting £3.50 a house as their overheads would be a little more realistic with Tax, License and insurance to deal with, as well as not being able to rely on their dole while they 'get started'.
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Hi Ian
I agree, it will be a tax on us but if it was enforced properly, I would willingly pay it. I know in an ideal world we shouldn't have to and these guys should be policed better but that isn't how it is.
Think how many new customers would be floating about if all the dole boys suddenly dissappeared.
Another point is that the guys starting up would have a little more expense to deal with. They would have a license fee as well as insurance to pay for. It would cut out some of the rounds being destroyed by newbies quoting £3.50 a house as their overheads would be a little more realistic with Tax, License and insurance to deal with, as well as not being able to rely on their dole while they 'get started'. It would be a bit more of a level playing field.
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Hi Ian
I agree, it will be a tax on us but if it was enforced properly, I would willingly pay it. I know in an ideal world we shouldn't have to and these guys should be policed better but that isn't how it is.
Think how many new customers would be floating about if all the dole boys suddenly dissappeared.
Another point is that the guys starting up would have a little more expense to deal with. They would have a license fee as well as insurance to pay for. It would cut out some of the rounds being destroyed by newbies quoting £3.50 a house as their overheads would be a little more realistic with Tax, License and insurance to deal with, as well as not being able to rely on their dole while they 'get started'.
I do agree with you on your points for sure, just annoys me that everything we do legal and above board costs us more money.
And if they cant police the people ripping us (every tax payer) how are they going to do it with a license.
Ian
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Must admit the average wage in my area is poor. Week after week I look in the local paper and jobs on offer are jobs that you thought paid well, but they aren't. I've seen computer programming jobs in my local paper that went sort of like this.
Computer Programmer required.
Must know the in's and out's of blah, blah, blah,
Must be qualified to degree level at ( Something really technical sounding.)
Must have own car, mobile, lap top.
Must have 3 year experience.
£12,000 per annum.
Thats quiet a lot of must haves considering local window cleaning firms pay roughly the same.
Back to the licensing thing. If it was policed properly I wouldn't mind. If it brought our insurance down a little I would pay. Everyday I see at least 10 window cleaners that don't even have the gear that you need to do our job properly. The market in my area is full of part timers that disappear and re appear all the time. Some of the prices being charged for window cleaning is impossible to compete with. I've seen in my area a guy in his late 50's early 60's with a really dangerously old ladder, climbing to the second floor window on a massive commercial job with just a bucket and a couple of cloths. It amazes me, if the area around my house was to loose the cow boys and I'm talking a mile square round my house or less was to loose all the cow boys. I think that there would only be me still trading.
Really getting sick of it as I spend more time competing with cow boys. I don't think there is another professional window cleaner with 3-4 miles of my house but there is about 20 cow boys I see all the time.
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You need to venture further afield to find better paying work IMO. I have the same trouble in Torquay with dole cheats. It's good in the posh areas and lousy in the deprived areas. I'm happy to drive out in the sticks (rural areas) for better work.
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Most of my mates are plumbers, electricians, plasterers ect, oh and a couple of engineers. I would say that the average they earn is around £280 a day, but I have many customers who are earning in excess of £1000 a day working as business/banking or investment consultants ect!!! Before I became a window cleaner I was a train driver and could quite easily earn £50,000 with overtime, they are no longer allowed to work overtime thanks to the unions!! but I think the basic wage is now about £40k.
I was chatting to one of my long standing customers today about the cost of living ect, and she couldn't believe that I can actually make a good living from window cleaning!! And was genuinely shocked to find out that I own my own home and don't have to claim any benefits!!!! :o
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The ones who are surprised we are not selling the Big Issue outside the local Post Office to make ends meet have to be pretty thick. All they need to do is divide the day by the time it takes to do their windows and multiply it by the price we charge them and they should get some indication of a daily rate. I know it varies but they should get some idea.
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most workers in any trade Huh
how much extra do tesco pay per hour in birmingham then Huh
a post on here a while ago about a delivery driver for them taking home £250 a week
when you say trade do you mean builders,plumbers,sparkies etc.
or just anyone(shop workers,hairdressers,factory workers)
To L J Thorpe HUH huh is huh a saying where u come from then?
Well I have a HGV licence( not a well paid job, but I do about 2 or 3 days a month to keep my hand in) and today for being driven to Leeds and then driving a small lorry to Redditch and then being driven back in a car to B'ham I got paid £103.50p. Bank holiday monday I drove an artic about 300 miles got paid £180, Tuesday, Wed, Tomorrow and part of Saturday I will window clean. So I will be on far more than £500 this week. Ten years ago I was doing £350 gross for a three day week commercial window cleaning.. I am not talking about shop workers but normal self employed people and also a lot of factory workers. Most blokes at Land Rover factory are on a good screw, the same at most car factories. Hairdressers-- I have a hairdressing acquaintence who drives around in a 2 year old Jag and lives in a £600,000 house. As regards Tesco delivery drivers, I have often worked at Tesco depots, the going rate for a class one AGENCY driver is £11.50 mon to fri , £13 sat and £15 ph sun.Qualified HGV mechanics are on about £12 to £18ph. If an established plumber, electrician, builder or most self employed person and I reiterate, established person, isn't doing £100 a day then they must be not starting work till lunchtime.
So HUH HUH
Sorry for the lateness of the answer but been busy.
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If an established plumber, electrician, builder or most self employed person and I reiterate, established person, isn't doing £100 a day then they must be not starting work till lunchtime.
So HUH HUH
£100 a day!!! Most of the plumbers I know charge £60 an hour, especially for gas work!! ;)
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Not to mention the £50 call out charge...!!