Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: MLS on May 02, 2008, 06:19:58 pm
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My mum had a flier through her front door yesterday from a well established Plymouth company, Ocean Clean, offering to clean every carpet in her three bedroomed house, with a truckmounted machine and Prochem chemicals, for £50. That's three bedrooms, a lounge, her stairs passage and landing, her dining room and two bathrooms ...... all for £50!!!!
I thought my prices were good, but there's no way I could spend enough time in someone's house to clean that many carpets for £50.
I'm a contract cleaner, covering a lot of window cleaning, carpet cleaning and day to day cleaning for night clubs and with nineteen years experience under my belt I really can't see how they can offer such a price and make any money. I know it's up to them what they charge, and I'm sure they're very busy at that price, but I'm far happier doing less for more.
On the other hand, maybe they're not busy and are getting desperate!!
Just my opinion ??? ??? ???
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May get some jobs now but will find it impossible to keep these new clients when the prices go back to normal ::)
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Bet they don't move furniture either
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I'm not convinced they clean the carpets either!!! ;)
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MLS think you have hit the nail on the head.
On the other hand, maybe they're not busy and are getting desperate!!
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They cant pre vac nor spray for that, just wand in and out they go :o
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we would do them for 60 pounds and make a good liveing ;) trying to up them too 75- 95 for full houses as from next week
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It might well be as Paul Moss says. They aren't busy & if they have day to day outgoings, better to get something in than nothing. Who knows what further recommendations they get from doing this work.
Last summer I had a woman phone me because she had spilt red wine on her off white carpet. She was clearly very upset about it. Told her I would come & have a look at it between 2 jobs I was doing. When I got there, The stain was barely 2" in diameter. Cleaned it there and then in 10 minutes. Didn't charge her for it as stop off was on my way & felt sorry for her.
That stain removal has brought me in £3,500 in turnover over the last 8 months from her recommendations.
How do we know that these cheap price merchants don't get recommended on & gradually increase their prices along the line
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Jesus that`s too cheap ! i have had a cracking week nigh on £1200.just me working i am charging .25 per foot.Thing is i know i need to put some away as it`s just so up and down ! taking my phone to greece with me already taking booking for when i get back,soon be time to get me a t/m if it keeps up.might get a rotavac first then t/m if it carries on
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I'd do it the other way around. Get the t/m first & then decide which tools you need to compliment that specific machine
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Ok mighy try that then , i need so much more stuff though.Only from being on here and seeing what the other peeps are using to get amazing results.Had a really hard slog on a white bedroom carpet today,not fixed down joins not stitched together not on grip rails really really bad draught marks,they had rugs down so clean patches and really dirty patches,first pre=spray gold the fib and fab rinse ,no joy,then ultra pac renovate and hand brush,some joy but i was not 100% happy was going to get the double clean out but carpet was getting too wet,only got 1 vac motor working at mo since one blew the other day ! typical when i am busy.
He had also used 1001 on some cat sick .wool berber it was a tiny amount of sick in 2 places which he sprayed it spread out to about 1 sq ft ! when i started cleaning the carpet went the same colour as the bit he treated ! i shat myself (must get that treatment ins !) there were so many cobwebs and so much dust , never seen anything like it ,(how come it`s always the real filthy houses where the customer wants their 20 year old carpets to look new , when the have cats and dogs and kids and don`t take their shoes off Ahh...Customer was happy and i said that i would come out again for free if it didn`t dry whiter.Double clean or bleach if thats the case ! Would it be possible to oxibrite a big 200sq ft bedroom carpet ,or is that not poss ?
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Mark et all,
Firstly let me say that we are neither in the £50/house bracket nor the £400+/house bracket. We sit somewhere in between.
However you will find that a lot of people (potential customers) look in their local supermarket or DIY superstore and see a Rug Doctor to rent for the weekend for £16 + chemicals, all in for around £30. This is what they therefore perceive as the going rate for cleaning their house carpets, they do not appreciate or comprehend the difference between a Rug doctor and a TM machine, all your doing is cleaning a carpet, aren't you?????? What can be so different?
In a lot of areas this is the market you are competing with, often council houses, low income, cleaning is secondary to living, priority is not in having a clean carpet, priority is about paying the essential bills, if they can get the carpets cleaned within cost then fine, if not then we'll hire a machine.
Susan may not be charging big prices but I'm sure her diary is constantly full and her staff can probably knock out 3-4 of those every day. Why? Because people can afford her and she can still turnover £150-200 per operator every day.
Remember the saying:
"You need income to make profit"
There are a lot of people out there who believe they are worth £xxx per hour but who are sat at home waiting for the phone to ring, there are others who think it's better to be working for less than not working at all. Again I sit somewhere in between.
I'm off back to my glass of Shiraz ;)
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Having had 2 vans on the go I can see the point of view, trying to pay someones wages with no money coming in and with all of the overheads still to be paid regardless a few £50's will keep the bill collectors at bay until things turn around BUT I do think £50 is a stupid price, 50% off would have been better IMO.
Shaun
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I agree with Shaun, we charge a minimum of £55 now, I did a coffee stain last week for that, anyway, I suspect peoples perception of 'a good living' will differ hugely around the country.
Regards
S
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I have a flexible call out of £59 but do lower it to £49 but in the south where the air is thicker the pay packets are heavier and are used to paying out more wedge! look at the average wage in your area and there will be a formula between average price to average wage.
Although you can always go for the more affluent.
Shaun
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Shaun,
Keep checking your links for broken ones, some of those links you have I binned because after a while, because they turned into one way links to them!
Also the recip links were on crappy non ranking pages.
Regards
S
I might try filling in your add a link form myself later :)
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A good post from Ian, but, there is a great misconception about where the money is.
There is often a great deal more money going into council homes nowadays than the 1-2 or 3 bedroom estate houses.
Also and this has been common knowledge for decades.............poorer people tend to be cleaner than their middle or upper class ( so called ) neighbours, not everyone, obviously, but in general.
With small mortgages, or low rents there is much more money available from todays working class than the social climbers, most of whom struggle, year after year and you are just as likely to find C/D in a council estate, as elsewhere.
When we priced at a similar level, ( about 50% higher ) to Susan we were doing, not 2 - 3 jobs per day, but on average, 7 per day, occasionally more and always busy.
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Is there a difference in the time it takes someone to do a house for £60 compared to say someone who charges £180? Time is moneyafter all...
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that depends if there simply blasting the carpet with double clean or vaccing, pre-spraying, agitating, extracting and all this having moved furniture. I would say that equates to treble the time of the former.
Pete
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So does anyone here do houses for £60.. how long does it take you?
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Just a general observation.
As a good rule of thumb, the longer established CC's on these forums tend not to worry about what others are charging, whether lower or higher prices, and just concentrate on their own business' and developing their own marketing strategies to suit their own needs.
Those wishing to grow and develop their business tend to want to be in the same position of the former just mentioned, but they are trying to do it with one hand tied behind their back.
I know that the transition from one to the other is difficult, but perhaps it is wiser sometimes to take a step back and be objective about your goals and how to achieve them.
If you are pre-occupied with what others are doing/charging, it is easier to take your eye off the ball.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Surely what others are charging has an effect on your business, if you have someone down the road charging £60 per full house you cant just ignore it ::)
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Hi Guys
Ken's point is valid, there will always be someone down the road charging a ridiculous price, this caterpillar will either grow into a beautiful butterfly charging good prices and doing a top job or be eaten by a blackbird, probably more likely.
What will definitely not happen is that he will still be a caterpillar in 2 years time !
In other words cheap CC's come and go because the business model does not work and the reason it does not work is that the business is not actaually making any money, if the maths are worked out properly.
Cheers
Doug
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Davep
Yes, I would totally ignore it.
A £60 price for that work is not where I want to take my business.
If you compete on price, there will always be someone who is cheaper. Where would the downward spiral end ???
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Yip, its about educating the custys then, you get what you pay for ;)
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Doug,
I have a "caterpillar" just down the road from me who charges £40 for a 3 peice, £22 for a lounge and £75 for a full house, he been going for over 17 years and owns a lovely 5 bedroom house in a little coastal hamlet.
He's a nice guy, he used to do my carpets before I started, however, I know I do a better job than him because I have been told so on many occasions by customers who changed from him to me. But he is still busy and still seems to be doing very well. I very rarely see any blackbirds around his house and cannot ever see him blossoming into a butterfly!
I have consciously not competed with him on price but instead on quality of work for what I believe to be a more realistic price, without being too far away from his prices.
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No matter what they claim these people (They certainly arent Carpet Cleaners) just go through the motions and probably dont really know how, to thoroughly clean a carpet. £50 or £60 for a full house using a TM (Which one?) even not moving any furniture is going to take a couple of hours minimum. Its just rubbish, they are selling on price alone, quality doesnt come into it. I dont know about anyone else but 'Job satisfaction' plays as much a role as earnings in my operations.
Dave.
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As my old boss once said to me many years ago,
"If you do a good job they'll tell two of their friends, if you do a bad one they'll tell 10!!"
Very true.
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No matter what they claim these people (They certainly arent Carpet Cleaners) just go through the motions and probably dont really know how, to thoroughly clean a carpet. £50 or £60 for a full house using a TM (Which one?) even not moving any furniture is going to take a couple of hours minimum. Its just rubbish, they are selling on price alone, quality doesnt come into it. I dont know about anyone else but 'Job satisfaction' plays as much a role as earnings in my operations.
Dave.
big claims there dave job satisfaction is most important to me that why i dont need fastrack to help me rip people off and trust me if fast track was anygood why are you still working surely if it was anygood they would of tought you how to make the best of the big money you earn
one thing for sure i wont be working after 50 maybe 45 if i can buy two more house in this next two months takeing me too 15 in all and only one with a morage mine 40k outstanding until novmber where ill have none
chicken feed turns chickens in to big fat profit you just have to know what to do with the feed ;) ;)
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Susan I did not know you were that rich. I think its time you left Julian and came to live with me. ;D
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Too much information for me I am afraid ::)
S
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Haha. If Paul died his hair black put a couple of tampons inside his cheeks we can call him Mr F West ;D
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Ripping people off because they charge bigger prices isn't true, bigger prices get bigger expectations so you have to spend more time on the edges and the finer things the hourly rate may work out less.
I have 2 houses I rent out (paid for this year 8)) and have had and probably will have more 2nd businesses but I will probably work until I drop or Sheffield United win the Premiership (which ever comes first), I enjoy work and enjoy making a shilling I don't want to stop, she'll only have me doing something I don't want to do.
Shaun
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believe me Shaun, you will have a long working life
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Tha't exactly what the Missus said!
Shaun
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Clive Jenkins (the 1970's trade unionist) once said
"If working is such a good idea, how come the rick always let the poor do it?"
Just thought I'd throw that into the debate :)
P.S. It's probably the only thing he ever said that I could possibly begin to agree with.
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Clive Jenkins (the 1970's trade unionist) once said
"If working is such a good idea, how come the rick always let the poor do it?"
Just thought I'd throw that into the debate :)
P.S. It's probably the only thing he ever said that I could possibly begin to agree with.
Very true, trouble is finding good people to work for you...
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Jason
You will always find people to work for you. It's down to you to ensure that you train & treat them, so that they become good & reliable employees
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Clive Jenkins (the 1970's trade unionist) once said
"If working is such a good idea, how come the rick always let the poor do it?"
Just thought I'd throw that into the debate :)
P.S. It's probably the only thing he ever said that I could possibly begin to agree with.
But is that true?
Bill Gates still works.
Richard Branson still works.
Paul McCartney still works.
The list of the successful, rich and famous who still work goes on and on and on....... They don't need to work to keep a roof over their heads, they work to be successful for themselves and their employees. If they packed up just because they had "made it" there would be a very long dole queue.
It is the motivated people of this world who work hard to benefit themselves initially, who then go on to provide work with all the benefits, and disadvantages it has to be said, so that others may progress themselves and provide for their own families.
There are people on these forums who are employers. It is they who have taken the risks. It is they who have the big overdraught. It is they who have mortgaged and borrowed to grow the business to not only, hopefully, bring more success to themselves, but provide rewards for their employees. It is the man/woman at the top who takes the biggest risk, it is they who deserve the biggest rewards.
This is the way the free world works.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Susan, I wasnt having a go at you or anyone else. The amount charged for a full house, wasnt my point either. My point was that to make it pay doing a full house cheapely, you have to do it quickly, and I know as well as any experienced professional that to do it qickly, you have to take short cuts and that is not doing it thoroughly. Fine if thats how they want to do it, or perhaps they actually think they are doing a good job, because they dont know any better, but it simply is not the professional way to do it. A professional thorough clean cannot be done quickly enough to make a profit, charging low, low prices.
As to your boasting about how well financially you are doing, well done, but you have no idea how much I earn so how can you make your presumtions, and for your information, even though I am now 62 I have no wishes to even think about retirement, you know why? I enjoy my job and I can take time off anytime I want to pursue my mountaineering, running, long distance walking or any other interests I have.
As for your remarks about the Fast Track. People get from the FT what they want as I did, which you may be surprised to know was not that much in my case as I had already been in this business for over 20 years when I did it. I did it for one year only and that was six years ago, but you are right and they do encourage members to put their money in property etc.
Dave.
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Conflict, contradiction, accusations, jealousy, the recipe for TV soaps, or the life of carpet cleaners......
If some one has been providing a low cost service for many years and has buIlt a property portfolio on the proceeds, that person IS A SUCCESS, should be congratulated and used as a ROLE MODEL.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes and to criticise and mock such business success is, in my opinion incredibly NAIVE and that is being very polite with my choice of words.
If you want to be a success and build a money making business from cleaning carpets and furniture, YOU NEED A STEADY SUPPLY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REPARED TO PAY YOUR PRICES.
There is a fair amount nonesense posted alongside a fair bit of sound advice.
Theory is great, a bit like Idealism, but reality is where we are and it's where the majority of prospective clients are, with their feet firmly on the ground.
Sure, it's great if you can successfully target and win clients who are prepared to pay higher prices, but, only ten to twenty percent of c/c's will operate in that sector, regularly.
Some, including myself, will take clients from across the board, while many, possibly the majority, will work in the lower priced sector, where they will have to work longer and possibly harder, but many will make a very good living and if astute, will be more succssful than the " dreamers "
I know of at least a dozen businesses around my locality who charge low, or comparatively low prices and have been in business for 10 to 25 years.
Keep your prices to yourself and look at practical ways of helping each other. Sharing experiences and information can be more inspirational than telling people they are likely to be a failure if they don't charge at least £150 for a suite clean or £60 for a lounge.
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Conflict, contradiction, accusations, jealousy, the recipe for TV soaps, or the life of carpet cleaners......
If some one has been providing a low cost service for many years and has buIlt a property portfolio on the proceeds, that person IS A SUCCESS, should be congratulated and used as a ROLE MODEL.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes and to criticise and mock such business success is, in my opinion incredibly NAIVE and that is being very polite with my choice of words.
If you want to be a success and build a money making business from cleaning carpets and furniture, YOU NEED A STEADY SUPPLY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REPARED TO PAY YOUR PRICES.
There is a fair amount nonesense posted alongside a fair bit of sound advice.
Theory is great, a bit like Idealism, but reality is where we are and it's where the majority of prospective clients are, with their feet firmly on the ground.
Sure, it's great if you can successfully target and win clients who are prepared to pay higher prices, but, only ten to twenty percent of c/c's will operate in that sector, regularly.
Some, including myself, will take clients from across the board, while many, possibly the majority, will work in the lower priced sector, where they will have to work longer and possibly harder, but many will make a very good living and if astute, will be more succssful than the " dreamers "
I know of at least a dozen businesses around my locality who charge low, or comparatively low prices and have been in business for 10 to 25 years.
Keep your prices to yourself and look at practical ways of helping each other. Sharing experiences and information can be more inspirational than telling people they are likely to be a failure if they don't charge at least £150 for a suite clean or £60 for a lounge.
bang on rob just think that to many are willing to have ago at people like me , ok i may be holding the market up as when i lifted my prices so did every other low priced cleaner around my way and some of them are realy in the poop where there money and cash flow is at ???
yesterday i was thinking of halfing all my prices buying anthor t.m. (full set up) and realy makeing my competers struggle and running at cost for 6 months to see whos lefted at the end of it :P then lifting the prices back up for the xmas rush its called buisness how
ever the help ive got off this fourm and off some great people ive met as stopped me. it would be like sticking the fingers up at them and saying i know better mybe a do but im always willing to learn
so im going to lift them a little higher and start my new area from next month going in a topend stuff this way speanding the costs involed
dave i should of know you were not haveing ago but it just read like you were and im sure that if we all look at both sides of cleaning cheap / dear its got to help people under stand each others markets ??? and if you think im cheap i can name cheaper much cheaper ! :o
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Sensible comment Susan, as you know, I was one of those who suggested raising your prices, but my suggestion was only to raise by around 10% which should have been acceptable to the vast majority of your customers.
Cruscifying your competitors is not necessary and only loses you money and for anyne to suggest the lower priced operators are holding the others back, is rubbish. This has been put about for years.
The reality is, the people who overcharge and fail to deliver the superior service thay claim to, are the ones who have a negative effect on the market.
I'm referring to individuals who claim to be better, because they have a more powerful machine, spend more time vacuuming ( often unnecessary ), take twice as long to do the job ( not because they 're doing a better job ), often overwetting and getting longer drying times.
If you are seriously running a business, time management is critical and the objective should be, assess the job, prepare the area, get in, get out, get paid.
Reading many posts, I've come to the conclusion that a fair number of people are using c/c as a part time job which gives them loads of time off between jobs to follow their hobbies / other interests.
That is kidding yourself and none of the truly successful business people in history worked that way, they all work / worked very long hours and focussed on nothing but the success of their business.
That is not being a " busy fool " it's building a saleable commodity which acts as a cash cow along the way.
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Susan, I never said I thought your prices were cheap again, I was not reffering to you. Carpet Guy, you make some good points, but you were obviously having a dig about me taking time out to follow my other interests. Well excuse me but in my opinion you are wrong. Any established businessman, takes time out to do the things that they enjoy outside of their working enviroment. It keeps them fresh of mind and makes them perform better in their work and prevents them becoming blinded by the work, work, work ethic. After all isnt the purpose of work intended to finance your lifestyle. If your lifestyle if just work, then thats just plain boring. As for being part time, I can tell you, I put more hours on my TM per annum than the majoriy of CCs and I wouldnt call an average of 50 hours a week, part time.
Dave.
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at last a good debate about both sides well done dave and rob
ive have put my prices up about 40-50% ish over the last 15 months and kepted 90% of my custys and ive now had many comments that went like this " i thought you were to cheap to start with " :o
i think i am now at tipping point where go for just topend jobs or stop where am at. so the best way forward for me is to stop where i am at with what i am chargeing then move outside my area buy say 50 miles and start again with the top end this way i wont lose any of my work and can write off any loses off my tax costing my northing ;)
people saying that you cant make money at low prices are wrong and go for more of a one big hit if that wroks for them thats great but it doesnt work for me i dont have any marketing cocts due to the good job good price area saveing many many pounds ;D ;D
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This is a debate that has been thrown around for years, I am not bothered about others in my area, if they want to work lots of hours for small money that's fine, I concentrate on our business and get top end clients regularly, if I survey a property, I will usually get 9/10 jobs and the low end customers will be as interested in me as I am in them.
Everyone will have different qualities on offer, I just can't see the point in toiling for small money. Customers will usually relate to cheap prices, qualified service, allergy treatments, drying times etc etc, they know what they are looking for, although logistically, requirements will differ.
S
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Susan,
We are not that far apart in our operations you know. Some people think because Ive got a big, all singing etc van & TM and have done the FT, and criticise the Low, Low charging fraternaty, that I must be a high charging operator. Well that simply isnt true, I am often b-----cked for not charging enough by certain other operators. I can tell you there are porty users out there, chaging more than me, b ut would I do a full house as mentioned for £50, no way, not for twice that either and the reason is, because the jobs worth more than that, and people WILL pay it. In fact another member of this forum, just a few weeks ago, beat me on a telephone quote and got the job to clean several carpets in a house. He won the job because he quoted £100.. MORE than than the next highest quote (mine) and they didnt think I could do a good job for what I quoted.
Like you a few years ago I increased charges in one go by 50% and kept almost all my customers. People told me too that I wasnt charging enough and I am now at a point where my instincts tell me, again, that I should and could increase prices.
Dave.
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dave when julian went to see and train with an operator near you he came back and could nt belive what this guy was chargeing.
now i am not saying this guys wrong but when he told me what he was chargeing i thought of footballers houses and big posh placeses but guess what they were the same type of people we do just 100 miles away . same streets same income just diffent towns this realy opened our eyes
ive add a few emails in the passed buy watchers from this fourm saying that they find people intimerdateing about there out look on cheap cleaners and have said im brave for poping my head up above the fireing line ;D
however if people like me dont do this once in a while how will people see boths sides ??? when we spok too david li. at the ccdo we came back with anthor boat load of info (which was free) and started changeing things from dayone ok we may never been in davids leage but we larnt suff we never thought off and it was some of the simple things he showed use that as made the biggest changes :o to the way we work and earn money
we have saved alot of money buy getting chems in pallet loads ! if i buy 25 bottles of cit gel then i want 4 for free i rember gong to a local prochem deal a few years back and buy 100 tubs on crs. green and getting a good number for free ;D this is just one of the ways we have made money in the passed ;)
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can think of better ways of putting my money to use susan,
a pallet load and you get 4 free bottles, come on who the hell wants to store a pallet load to save a few quid.
certainly not me, i would rather pay a touch extra when I need it. I reckon the interest you would have got on the money paying for that amount would have matched your saving , in the time you scale of using all the chems,
unless of course you use a pallet load a month , then fair play.
geoff
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can think of better ways of putting my money to use susan,
a pallet load and you get 4 free bottles, come on who the hell wants to store a pallet load to save a few quid.
certainly not me, i would rather pay a touch extra when I need it. I reckon the interest you would have got on the money paying for that amount would have matched your saving , in the time you scale of using all the chems,
unless of course you use a pallet load a month , then fair play.
geoff
i was running 5 portys seven days aweek a few years ago , trust me these guys wacked though the stuff i wouldnt just buy a pallet of one stuff there would be all sorts in there and i was always want 35% of the total ;)
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Up to a few years ago I was charging £65 for a suite and £20 a carpet went to SDO in Leyland and had my eyes opened put my prices up lost a few customers on the way even though they said I had done a good job but too expensive.Now charging £120 for suite and from £43 for a carpet.
Last week had local paper on doing a survey of regular advertisers one of the questions was "where do you want your business to be in 2 years and who do you aspire to be like?"
I replied like revita couple of vans on the road charging a fair price for a fair job" now I get on well with the girl asking the questions who told me all the local competitors aspire to be like me,told her they could not afford to charge the prices I charge as they would go bust.
I thought like that a few years ago.
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I did a job for a regular letting agent in Plymouth in the week. I havn't done anything for them for a while as we had a problem with payments.
While at the job the neigbour came over to ask why they are getting the carpets cleaned again. Because they are filthy I replied. I went on to ask when they were cleaned and by who. He couldn't remember the name of the company.
When I went back to the agent, I commented that I thought the tennant may have had a go with a domestic or hire machine. To my suprise she told me the had responded to a leaflet offering very cheap carpet cleaning. Didn't give me the name but it could well be the same lot. Seems a shame that she has had to pay to have carpets cleaned twice to get a decent job done. ::)