Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dudek on April 30, 2008, 07:15:31 pm
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I am so angry at the moment!
I have just checked my emails to find that another of my custies from my once TOP estate has cancelled in favour of the new guy with the ladder, nothing against him, only i have been doing these people since i was a kid in the school holidays with my uncle when it was his round, this is 15 years with these custies.
It led me to thinking, once all my major problems were out of the way with changing to wfp,had i become a bit arrogant at the quality i was providing them, so i put the prices up(well over due in any case), plus i was able to get to all the windows above the conservatories.
I inherited about 50% of the whole estate form my uncle, and the main amount of the loss has been in the last 3 months.
Im struggling not to take this personally as my work was top notch and i would always deal with any issues professionally resolve it.
>:(
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Did the custy explain why they were changing ? Was he under cutting you ?
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I've really noticed a big thing of people not liking water fed poles. I don't know why though. Maybe its to do with that BBC2 program a few months back
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Damn right he was undercutting me.
I thought i was invincible at one point.
Things change fast.
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I've really noticed a big thing of people not liking water fed poles. I don't know why though. Maybe its to do with that BBC2 program a few months back
people dont like change thats why IMO
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It has to be price.
They might not like the system cos it looks too easy and is very quick in experienced hands, but I get many people mention how pleased they are that all the windows can now be cleaned with wfp.
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Sorry I have not seen a tv program about wfp...could you explain the gist of it....
Cheers
Dave.
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Some customers really are struggling to pay their bills. Perhaps your customer has changed to the trad lad because he's cheaper so they can save money.
People will cut unnecessary expenses or find cheaper alternatives if they are scrimping to get by.
Welcome to the credit crunch. Times are getting harder, you just need to open your eyes to what's going on in this country.
I live in Devon where there is a lot of second homes and the lowest wages in the country with the exception of Cornwall. I have had a lot of customers cancelling, extending the duration between cleans or switching to a cheaper trad cleaner. I'm having to work harder to replace cancelled customers with decent new ones.
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Sorry I have not seen a tv program about wfp...could you explain the gist of it....
Cheers
Dave.
Sorry Radio 2, Not BBC 2. :-X
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Some customers really are struggling to pay their bills. Perhaps your customer has changed to the trad lad because he's cheaper so they can save money.
People will cut unnecessary expenses or find cheaper alternatives if they are scrimping to get by.
Welcome to the credit crunch. Times are getting harder, you just need to open your eyes to what's going on in this country.
I live in Devon where there is a lot of second homes and the lowest wages in the country with the exception of Cornwall. I have had a lot of customers cancelling, extending the duration between cleans or switching to a cheaper trad cleaner. I'm having to work harder to replace cancelled customers with decent new ones.
I would disagree that they have changed because of the price your charging them,if they couldn`t afford it they wouldn`t pay someone to do them end of story,look a little deeper.
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Many of the older customers just don't like WFP, I too have recently lost work to some new guy with a ladder. It won't affect me at all financially, but it has taught me a lesson as far as loyalty is concerned.
I have turned work away in the past in order to serve existing customers, no more Mr nice guy, I'm going to dump the whole estate and concentrate on my more lucrative accounts.
They take it for granted that their frames are gleaming, but I doubt if the trad guy will do all the frames every month.
I have lost 6 out of 30 on that estate, but I just hate going there now, stuff them. Dai
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It has to be price.
They might not like the system cos it looks too easy and is very quick in experienced hands, but I get many people mention how pleased they are that all the windows can now be cleaned with wfp.
yea like they want you to risk your life yor become disabledbeing so they can see you struggle and fall off al adder all for a pound sod em get a new job and f em off keep safe live long you can do more better with wfp than trad over cons ect let em live in the past you live in the future chin up dude
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It has to be price.
They might not like the system cos it looks too easy and is very quick in experienced hands, but I get many people mention how pleased they are that all the windows can now be cleaned with wfp.
yea like they want you to risk your life yor become disabledbeing so they can see you struggle and fall off al adder all for a pound sod em get a new job and f em off keep safe live long you can do more better with wfp than trad over cons ect let em live in the past you live in the future chin up dude
Yeah well said mate!!!
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I sometimes try too much to be the nice guy....but at times I must admit I do wonder about loyalty...does it exist really in our profession...??
I personally do not believe that there is such a thing within my business...they are only as good as the last time they paid...Whilst I try to do a good job for all ...I trust none of them, I like some more than others but in the main...they are all strangers to me...
Saying this...yesterday I went to do normal 8 weekly job and the lady came out to pay...I asked about her husband who had been ill for sometime...'how is he?' I asked..passed away she replied.....I saw the money in her hand and just said...keep the money and buy yourself some flowers.....she choked up and lost it.... :'( :'( smiled and said thank-you....
Remember sometimes it is good to commit an act of random kindness.... :)
Dave.
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Many of the older customers just don't like WFP, I too have recently lost work to some new guy with a ladder. It won't affect me at all financially, but it has taught me a lesson as far as loyalty is concerned.
I have turned work away in the past in order to serve existing customers, no more Mr nice guy, I'm going to dump the whole estate and concentrate on my more lucrative accounts.
They take it for granted that their frames are gleaming, but I doubt if the trad guy will do all the frames every month.
I have lost 6 out of 30 on that estate, but I just hate going there now, stuff them. Dai
Good for you Dai, there's no loyalty in business. I never turn down new work if it pays better. Worst work gets done last. Best work gets done bang on time. Loyalty to a point within reason but don't put yourself out for loyalty. Profit before loyalty.
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Loyalty - this is how I approach it due to recent experience. Did a job on Monday. She says " I hope it doesn't rain soon like the last time. I had to clean them again." I'm thinking " this is Scotland, love, it rains". Did a job today. I told her I was putting up the price next month. She said "No problem, as long as you keep coming." Same type of houses, same cost. I know who I'll drop and who I won't.
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I think some people could be at risk of thinking they are invincible just by reading all the nonesense that gets bantered around this forum. make no mistake about it, we are only window cleaners & good trad w/cers can still make very good money by undercutting over-valued wfp'ers. I also think many wfp'ers are not making as good a job as they think they are, windows always look clean when wet.
If i can get a service as good cheaper elsewhere then i get it, no question about it.
wfp V's trad? as far as most custy's are concerned there's nowt in it. wfp'ers are guilty of massively over-hyping the whole thing. maybe it's a comfort thing to ease the burdon of customer conversion, i don't know. Listen to some & you would be forgiven for thinking once wfp you can command whatever price you like.
Yeah, you'll get people telling how much a custy loves wfp etc. etc. but they fail to mention what the other 300 custy's say ::)
All my oppinion of course, just don't get too drawn in by idiotic braggarts. ;)
Tony
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Why should a customer be loyal? If you can get a service cheaper why not change? I'm not loyal to Tesco's if i can get my deisel cheaper i'll shop elsewhere too.
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Come the winter, when the new guy misses a few months because he does not like being wet and cold, and when the windows above the conservatory are looking shabby, I bet you get a few tails-between-their-legs calls from customers.
All you can do until then is to ensure your quality is superb and expand your services into conservatory cleans, gutters / soffits / facias to keep your income up.
Chin up m8. Don't let the buggers grind you down :)
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Saying this...yesterday I went to do normal 8 weekly job and the lady came out to pay...I asked about her husband who had been ill for sometime...'how is he?' I asked..passed away she replied.....I saw the money in her hand and just said...keep the money and buy yourself some flowers.....she choked up and lost it.... :'( :'( smiled and said thank-you....
Remember sometimes it is good to commit an act of random kindness.... :)
Dave.
Obviously the film Evan All mighty had a big effect on you. :)
Many of the older customers just don't like WFP, I too have recently lost work to some new guy with a ladder. It won't affect me at all financially, but it has taught me a lesson as far as loyalty is concerned.
I have turned work away in the past in order to serve existing customers, no more Mr nice guy, I'm going to dump the whole estate and concentrate on my more lucrative accounts.
They take it for granted that their frames are gleaming, but I doubt if the trad guy will do all the frames every month.
I have lost 6 out of 30 on that estate, but I just hate going there now, stuff them. Dai
I agree very few custies are loyal, but why dump the ones that are sticking with you for the time being, you'll be handing the work to this other window cleaner on a plate and possibly giving yourself a bad name, depending how you dump them.
I've found I've lost work in areas from time to time and it makes you feel bad about that area, but then you can pick up work again in the same road at a better price.
Of course if you find you can't keep up with your best price work then it would be a good idea to let them go.
Simon.
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Tony If most of your customers don't like wfp then your doing something wrong, your comments to me are laughable there are some capable people using wfp and perhaps some not so, but I haven't had one complaint or anyone ask to go back to trad, I'm quite happy for trad guys to think its rubbish though ;D
Dudek if your work is top notch then its there loss and they will probably come crawling back I have had one cancel purely on price last year but I also know the guy who does them now is rubbish, its a case of pay peanuts. keep your head up and standards high and most customers will appreciate it.
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I think some people could be at risk of thinking they are invincible just by reading all the nonesense that gets bantered around this forum. make no mistake about it, we are only window cleaners & good trad w/cers can still make very good money by undercutting over-valued wfp'ers. I also think many wfp'ers are not making as good a job as they think they are, windows always look clean when wet.
If i can get a service as good cheaper elsewhere then i get it, no question about it.
wfp V's trad? as far as most custy's are concerned there's nowt in it. wfp'ers are guilty of massively over-hyping the whole thing. maybe it's a comfort thing to ease the burdon of customer conversion, i don't know. Listen to some & you would be forgiven for thinking once wfp you can command whatever price you like.
Yeah, you'll get people telling how much a custy loves wfp etc. etc. but they fail to mention what the other 300 custy's say ::)
All my oppinion of course, just don't get too drawn in by idiotic braggarts. ;)
Tony
A honest WFP'er ............... now that's a novelty. ;D
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I agree totally with what Tony (macmac) is saying (athough that might not be the initial poster's problem).
With the speed with which some WFPolers say they are working, they can only be 'wetting' the glass - not cleaning it.
How many times have you seen your wife, or kids, do a quick car wash? The whole car gets a good wetting - but when it's dry, there's dirt all over the place.
Mike
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I agree totally with what Tony (macmac) is saying (athough that might not be the initial poster's problem).
With the speed with which some WFPolers say they are working, they can only be 'wetting' the glass - not cleaning it.
How many times have you seen your wife, or kids, do a quick car wash? The whole car gets a good wetting - but when it's dry, there's dirt all over the place.
Mike
I agree, I'm can't match the speed of some of the guys on here, but Im confident I do an excellent job.
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Grit your teeth and move on :-\
Welcome to the game...
We have all experianced one thing or another in this job, Just get new customers to cover the loss you have lost and move on...
But one thing I have leart is don't let people take the p856346s out of you..
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I sometimes try too much to be the nice guy....but at times I must admit I do wonder about loyalty...does it exist really in our profession...??
I personally do not believe that there is such a thing within my business...they are only as good as the last time they paid...Whilst I try to do a good job for all ...I trust none of them, I like some more than others but in the main...they are all strangers to me...
Saying this...yesterday I went to do normal 8 weekly job and the lady came out to pay...I asked about her husband who had been ill for sometime...'how is he?' I asked..passed away she replied.....I saw the money in her hand and just said...keep the money and buy yourself some flowers.....she choked up and lost it.... :'( :'( smiled and said thank-you....
Remember sometimes it is good to commit an act of random kindness.... :)
Dave.
I bet you got more out of that act of kindness than any ammount of money youd have earned ;D . Many could learn on here from what you did , well done .
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I learnt a harsh lesson about loyalty when I need a lot of time off sick a few years ago. All loyalty really means is that they woul oftemn prefer to stick with the devil they know as the devil they don't know might let them down. Window cleaning has a terrible reputation for unreliability. However, that can work in our favour because it can discourage customers from changing.
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Tony If most of your customers don't like wfp then your doing something wrong, your comments to me are laughable there are some capable people using wfp and perhaps some not so, but I haven't had one complaint or anyone ask to go back to trad, I'm quite happy for trad guys to think its rubbish though
Who said anything about MY customers?
Never had a complaint about wfp, neither have i had one about trad. my custy's are happy with wfp, they are also happy with trad. I use which method suites best.
This still does not mean that they come running out the house, praying at my feet, begging me to increase my prices, that they'll pay anything just 'cos i've got a wfp. It doesn't protect me from being undercut either, it doesn't stop a trad only guy being just as professional as me, or doing just as good a job as me.
It does however keep me realistic which helps me to progress. ;)
Tony
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I agree totally with what Tony (macmac) is saying (athough that might not be the initial poster's problem).
With the speed with which some WFPolers say they are working, they can only be 'wetting' the glass - not cleaning it.
How many times have you seen your wife, or kids, do a quick car wash? The whole car gets a good wetting - but when it's dry, there's dirt all over the place.
Mike
I agree, I'm can't match the speed of some of the guys on here, but Im confident I do an excellent job.
The trick is to get as much water flow as possible without causing splashbacks from the sills and a good technique.
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Disheartening i know, you just have to take it on the chin and move on a good window cleaner is hard to find their loss
wfp some customers
some love it 8)
some hate it >:(
some dont understand it how ever much you explain it ::)
some dont want to understand it
your right theres no loyalty, everything changes if customers want to get left behind just replace them with ones that want to move forward with your business they just get set in their ways
Brett
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Yeah, you'll get people telling how much a custy loves wfp etc. etc. but they fail to mention what the other 300 custy's say ::)
Thanks for clearing that up I thought you had 300 moaning customers like Squeaks ;D
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I lost 2 a couple of days ago due to wfp, i have had these customers for 10 years.
It took them nearly 3 years to decide they didnt like it.
Certainly was a bolt out of the blue
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I have lost quite a few over the years, I have also binned loads as well, its all part and parcel of being in business.
The reasons that they don't want wfp, is not because it does a bad job, but its because its new and they don't like to change.
In the future when a newer alternative to wfp comes along, the same will happen when you try to change your wfp customers to this new method, they will sack you because they don't like the new system, it does not matter to them that it does the job, its out of their comfort zone, and that makes them unhappy, so they will sack you at the earliest time possible.
Another thing is never have all your jobs in one area, spread you round around a bit, so if a new cleaner moves into one area, it doesnt have as much impact on your income.
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The way of being quick and still doing a good job is having a quick technique ( which doesnt compromsie quality - for example giving a really decent scrub and rinse ) but where you save the time is how you move your body ( arms, body and legs all quickly ) and moving quickly around the property....in a sense a controlled rush, thats how you get really quick
Then theres reeling the hose in, you can do it really fast ( or use an electric winder ). Have a decent flow rate ( this forces you to work faster....somehow! ). Writting all the bills out the night before. Knowing a property so your hose doesnt snag. Arranging your drive to different jobs to save time. Having lunch ready made in the van. Carrying water with you, and not needing to go to the shops. There are countless ways to save time without compromising quality, Luke
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Another thing is never have all your jobs in one area, spread you round around a bit, so if a new cleaner moves into one area, it doesnt have as much impact on your income.
That's excellent advise. I will get working on that tonight. I need to stock my leafletter up with new leaflets and a map of what area I want covered tonight so I think I will go to an area I don't already cover. I was trying to compact as much as I can but I now think a bit in another area would be good.
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I lost 2 a couple of days ago due to wfp, i have had these customers for 10 years.
It took them nearly 3 years to decide they didnt like it.
Certainly was a bolt out of the blue
The thing is dave, it's so easy to become over confident in our own ability to leave every job perfect.
We leave the windows wet and think good job done.
I had a shock today cleaning on a marina, it was sunny with a drying wind and the glass sheets as we like it.
I can do the third floor tops on four houses, and then go back to do the first floor windows.
When I went back and looked up at the windows I had done first, they had dried and I could see Smokey runs on two of them. These runs were about 6 ins wide below the vents ,so I know what caused them, but if I hadn't checked I wouldn't have seen them.
Recent rain had washed most of the salt off, but those vents must be full of it.
Non coastal cleaners will have no experience of salt, but it's a bugger, you can keep chucking water at it, but it takes ages to dilute the stuff to a point where it won't show on the glass.
I know you do lots of this kind of work, sometimes it pays to go back and check. Dai
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Loyalty is a very elusive thing when offset against money. Think about your own buying decisions, would you continue going to the same petrol station out of loyalty if the one up the road was cheaper?
I also think that some of the comments on here on here about WFP being used too quickly rings true. The fact is you still have to take your time and do a proper job, corners etc and rinse.
I posted on here a long while back about a lad I had been watching from my taxi while he did a block of posh residential flats. Each window got two up and downs in the middle of the glass, a quick squirt rather than a proper rinse and on to the next window. I commented on his poor workmanship and some of the replies suggested he probably know more about cleaning windows than I did.
The speed and ease of WFP has drawn some people down the road of doing jobs faster and faster and thinking only about how much money they are making.
Customers pay good money to have their windows cleaned. They expect to get a good job. As WFP users I feel we are more vunerable because we don't check the glass afterwards and we don't know what the customers really think about it.
Any customers you converted from trad to WFP may still harbour doubts, you will never know. As long as they don't all decide to drop you at the same time it doesn't really matter. There's always a new customer round the corner.
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getting faster with wfp takes time and i think you are right in people do rush. as for checking when you,ve finished i have been doing it now 12 months and when i look at the windows perhaps a few minutes after cleaning you can see if you will get a potential problem or not . also you will get poor window cleaners and always will no matter what they use . don,t blame the tools.
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strange thing this loyalty.
seems to exist as long as your doing and charging exactly what the customer requires.
i adopt the same policy.
;D
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The way of being quick and still doing a good job is having a quick technique ( which doesnt compromsie quality - for example giving a really decent scrub and rinse ) but where you save the time is how you move your body ( arms, body and legs all quickly ) and moving quickly around the property....in a sense a controlled rush, thats how you get really quick
Then theres reeling the hose in, you can do it really fast ( or use an electric winder ). Have a decent flow rate ( this forces you to work faster....somehow! ). Writting all the bills out the night before. Knowing a property so your hose doesnt snag. Arranging your drive to different jobs to save time. Having lunch ready made in the van. Carrying water with you, and not needing to go to the shops. There are countless ways to save time without compromising quality, Luke
My vote for post of the week - all so true!
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The way of being quick and still doing a good job is having a quick technique ( which doesnt compromsie quality - for example giving a really decent scrub and rinse ) but where you save the time is how you move your body ( arms, body and legs all quickly ) and moving quickly around the property....in a sense a controlled rush, thats how you get really quick
Then theres reeling the hose in, you can do it really fast ( or use an electric winder ). Have a decent flow rate ( this forces you to work faster....somehow! ). Writting all the bills out the night before. Knowing a property so your hose doesnt snag. Arranging your drive to different jobs to save time. Having lunch ready made in the van. Carrying water with you, and not needing to go to the shops. There are countless ways to save time without compromising quality, Luke
I could probably save even more time by having a portaloo in the back of the van.
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The way of being quick and still doing a good job is having a quick technique ( which doesnt compromsie quality - for example giving a really decent scrub and rinse ) but where you save the time is how you move your body ( arms, body and legs all quickly ) and moving quickly around the property....in a sense a controlled rush, thats how you get really quick
Then theres reeling the hose in, you can do it really fast ( or use an electric winder ). Have a decent flow rate ( this forces you to work faster....somehow! ). Writting all the bills out the night before. Knowing a property so your hose doesnt snag. Arranging your drive to different jobs to save time. Having lunch ready made in the van. Carrying water with you, and not needing to go to the shops. There are countless ways to save time without compromising quality, Luke
I could probably save even more time by having a portaloo in the back of the van.
why stop there Ive heard adult nappies are cheap !
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The way of being quick and still doing a good job is having a quick technique ( which doesnt compromsie quality - for example giving a really decent scrub and rinse ) but where you save the time is how you move your body ( arms, body and legs all quickly ) and moving quickly around the property....in a sense a controlled rush, thats how you get really quick
Then theres reeling the hose in, you can do it really fast ( or use an electric winder ). Have a decent flow rate ( this forces you to work faster....somehow! ). Writting all the bills out the night before. Knowing a property so your hose doesnt snag. Arranging your drive to different jobs to save time. Having lunch ready made in the van. Carrying water with you, and not needing to go to the shops. There are countless ways to save time without compromising quality, Luke
I could probably save even more time by having a portaloo in the back of the van.
why stop there Ive heard adult nappies are cheap !
But you would have to buy them out of work hours or you wouldn't save any time.
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Some good comments from Luke about being quick- time was he'd have started a thread on it.
One thing I would add is being methodical in this controlled rush and not tripping over or standing on the pole hose. So yes if you want to be really fast (again he said without compromising quality) everything Luke said;
High flow
Electic reel
Hot system
Auto Pole hose retractor
Skip lunch- eat when you get home
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Have you had a chat with the new guy? I had this a year ago with a new bloke that started, he was pricing detatched houses up at £3.50, I only lost two to him before we had to have a chat. After that neither of us went back to those houses and we don't bother each other any more either.
Try and work something out with the new bloke otherwise it could get a bit sticky