Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Highrise on April 27, 2008, 12:43:09 pm
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I've got a customer to whom I have spoken to twice and sent him 2 letters about his over due bill.
The last letter I sent him had the amount he owed plus late payment free...
He owes me £42 for his windows and £30 for late fee which totals £72...
The last letter I sent that if payment is not recived within 7 days his account will be cancelled and the account will be passed over to our legal team which will cost him more...
The only thing is I don't have a legal team...
I have spoken to a couple of debit collection angency and the cost is quite high...
what would you do?
would you send him one more letter stating that if you don't pay you will cop the cost aswell for the collection angency( £25 per visit and about £50 + vat for the recovery)
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No. He has been informed that it will be passed over to a legal team. Just start legal proceedings through the small claims court.
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what about these, I have not used them myself but I am in a similar situ to you and am certainly thinking of it
ht tp://www.thomashiggins.com/index.html
I was thinkng of them sending them a letter
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Thanks Chris...
I will give them a call on Monday.
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surely it will cost u more and he must know this.what proof have u got that he owes u the money.i would think of something else.
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Invoices.....
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£30 late payment fee seems a bit toppy....BT only charge £7.50!
But anyway, have you asked him why he's not paying? Maybe he can't afford to in which case the SCC will let him pay £1 a month or something silly.
Personally if I get a non-payer (and thankfully they are the rarity) I just write it off and move on.
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I know what your saying about wrighting them off as I have done in the past....
Some people move without paying etc etc etc
It comes with the job...
But when you got a tosser like this bloke, I don't want to be taken for a fool.
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Personally if I get a non-payer (and thankfully they are the rarity) I just write it off and move on.
Yes, me too, its annoying but in reality there is little you can do. You can take him to court and he just denies it. Even if you win you don't necessarily get your money. Further more he can complain you are harrassing him and you end up in trouble.
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I know what your saying about wrighting them off as I have done in the past....
Some people move without paying etc etc etc
It comes with the job...
But when you got a tosser like this bloke, I don't want to be taken for a fool.
Well if the guy is really irritating you why not just go around to his gaff and see what the problem is. Chances are he's a bit tight for dosh and hopes you'll give up and go away.
I think at the very least you deserve an explanation for the non-payment....and perhaps a bit of money on account.
Good luck
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The thing is with window cleaning, you really have no proof that he owes you the money, unless you have it signed by him in writing.
I've had customers like this, and its come to a point im ready to go round and have it out with them (verbally).
I just put it down to experience now, and look at it they have had 15 minutes of my time for nowt!!
It sometimes costs more in time and money than the debts worth!!
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Personally I would think the late payment fee is putting this guy off from paying. It's very annoying when they dont pay but I chase and send letters but at the end of the day if they are not going to pay they wont, knowing it will cost you more to get the money from them.
If it was me I would call round see him face to face, explain all you want is what is owed and you are willing to wave the late fee if he writes a cq for the £42 now. Worth a try!!
Wayne
(Hi Mick is it OK to give you a ring)
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I know what your saying about wrighting them off as I have done in the past....
Some people move without paying etc etc etc
It comes with the job...
But when you got a tosser like this bloke, I don't want to be taken for a fool.
Take him to court, I would, I tend to let some debts slide, but if they annoy me for any reason I sink my teeth in and will not let it go till debt is settled even if it costs £100 in cost I would still do it, they pay the costs anyway, a verbal agreement is just as good as a written one so dont let that hold you back. Go get your money ;)
Ian
p.s do not let them off the late payment fee, charge them an admin fee aswell, they are clearly take the P
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I suppose a lot will boil down to weather he signed any T&C's. Verbal agreements are much harder to prove. He could argue the fact that the work was unsatisfactory or he has only cleaned them once and is charging me for X amount of cleans etc etc etc......
I'm like you Ian I dont like to be beaten but this is an area were principles are much more hassle than they are worth. The trouble with taking hem to court is that if you do lose then you have the court cost as well. For this amount of money is it worth the risk?
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I suppose a lot will boil down to weather he signed any T&C's. Verbal agreements are much harder to prove. He could argue the fact that the work was unsatisfactory or he has only cleaned them once and is charging me for X amount of cleans etc etc etc......
I'm like you Ian I dont like to be beaten but this is an area were principles are much more hassle than they are worth. The trouble with taking hem to court is that if you do lose then you have the court cost as well. For this amount of money is it worth the risk?
thats the point if the cost far out weight the debt it most of the time is not worth it, as for the was it done right or not in court would not stand up, if the job is done it has to be paid for, they have to prove that they sent letters saying about the bad work. ;)
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hi wayne, yea gis a call mate, im free now
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Write it off -save yourself the stress - lifes too short.
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Highrise
The banks lost in court this week over their "bank charges", if you take this guy to court and he contests the "fee" then you will lose the court case, and you will end up with the court costs.
Under the Late payment of Commercial Debts Act 1998, you can claim interest at the rate of 8% above the Bank of England base rate.
If you go to court you will get a summons to do various things
The claimant can offer £1.00 every month
You can get an attachment of earnings which means that this £1.00 will be taken from his wages.
You can get an order that the Bailiffs could take goods to the valve of, but with this method if he tells the bailiff to go away and refuses them entry, there is nothing they can do.
He can also go bankrupt and you won't get a penny, but you will have paid out a fortune in legal costs.
The best way forward, is forget court and try to arrange a weekly payment plan or forget it.
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If this is the 1st clean which it isn't it could be possible for him to deny he owes you anything.
But your accounts should be sufficient proof that you have done the job.
I agree with the people who say don't stress about it. Throw some money at the problem and register a claim against him. Stress over for you. More for him.
Good luck.
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The banks did lose their case but that was because their charge was unfairly high and a ruling has not yet been made. However, BT was recently taken to court because they charge approx £5 if you don't pay by direct debit, they won their case because the amount was deemed to be fair.
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'Late payment fee' = bad form, IMO.
1) Write him off
2) Carry on the hate thing
3) Die from stress-related illness
4) Work for an not a very nice person
Which is best for YOU?
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i find a visit in person ..with a freindly smile does the job ...threats of a late payment fee will just annoy them into not paying...
no need to be nasty ...your presence at the door will be enough to make them pay...if they say "havn't got the money" ...say thats fine "a cheque will do " or "ill call again tomorrow"
works for me anyway...but then i am 17 1/2 stone of pure flab ;D
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pay me!....or i will sow your lips together while nyou sleep ;D ;D ;D :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've found something that worked for me in the past was to threaten to call in at their place of work. If you know where he works (hoping he's not self employed and on the road like us and that he has a job) just say in a letter that you'll call by his work sometime to collect the money. I've found that this normally settles things fast.
The late payment charge is a little on the steep side though, have you ever laid down terms and conditions stipulating the fee he would incur?
Simon
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Thanks for all your comments....
The late payment charge is only £5 per mth if payment is not recieved within 7days of the clean, To which I don't really bother with as many of my customer know I like to let cleans roll over.
But this guy is taking the mick, So this is what I am going to do....
Go round and see him one more time to collect the money in full i.e the £42 and if I don't get the money off him their and then, letting him of the late payment charge to which I am intitled to.....
I will let you know what happens next...
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highrise, have you sent him a letter registered post? That way he cannot deny any knowledge of it if he has signed for the letter and ignored it.
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No I haven't but I do have a few witness to conferm that we have been cleaning them if needs be....
I'm going round his house about 7pm
To smack him one in the face if he don't pay me (joke)
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Just one last thought on the subject of non-payers.
I always think to myself if I had a shop there'd be items that would occassionally walk out of it without having been paid for.
Unfortunately there are always going to be dishonest people and in business it's just something that's gonna happen from time to time.
If £42 or £72 is going to make a difference as to whether you're gonna eat or pay the mortgage then of course things need to be done...but if you can live with it it's probably better not to let it become a vendetta....
....if he don't anti-up tonight put the dirt back into place ;D....now that is fun ;D
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I know what your saying about wrighting them off as I have done in the past....
Some people move without paying etc etc etc
It comes with the job...
But when you got a tosser like this bloke, I don't want to be taken for a fool.
Take him to court, I would, I tend to let some debts slide, but if they annoy me for any reason I sink my teeth in and will not let it go till debt is settled even if it costs £100 in cost I would still do it, they pay the costs anyway, a verbal agreement is just as good as a written one so dont let that hold you back. Go get your money ;)
Ian
p.s do not let them off the late payment fee, charge them an admin fee aswell, they are clearly take the P
I was cleaning the high reach windows of a shop in the local town centre. They are taking the p now and they annoyed me when I last requested paymentr because they questioned my honesty. It is now more about getting revenge for doubting my honesty than it is about the money. Sometime this week, I will be sending a 14 day warning letter by registered post (so that they can't deny receiving it). Just to show that I'm a very reasonable person, I will send a 7 day warning after that with a blank court form just to show that I intend to carry it out.
If a domestic customer were to say to me that they had fallen on hard times and were genuinely unable to pay I would just say to pay me when you can. But take the p or question my honesty and I'll take them to court even if it ends up costing me more than the debt itself.
The daft thing is that I have several friends who sometimes buy clothes there (and I have done so occasionally myself) and if they don't pay me, it will also cost them some profit too. No way will I buy from a shop that has turned me over for my money. This is a vast improvement because there was a time when I would have not confined myself to legal retribution. Thankfully, I started growing up eventually.
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www.payontime.co.uk
jerry
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Just got back from the blokes house...
And guess what.... The girlfriend opened the door.
Made a start to pay me...
Just got £10 off her now, £12 by next Sunday then £20 by the next weekend.
It's all about how you do things and what you say that counts, (Atleast I think it does.... ;D)
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Just got back from the blokes house...
And guess what.... The girlfriend opened the door.
Made a start to pay me...
Just got £10 off her now, £12 by next Sunday then £20 by the next weekend.
It's all about how you do things and what you say that counts, (Atleast I think it does.... ;D)
IMO the late payment fee is too high and unreasonable. I simply use it as an excuse to say: don't take the mickey when it comes to paying and try paying more promptly.
If I get any forgetful customers I phone them up to remind them that payment is late and was they aware and if they were, what's their excuse.
Sometimes it helps to find out the reason why they haven't paid and to perhaps compromise about collecting. Some people are too embarrassed to admit they're skint hence why they come up with lots of excuses and ignorance hoping the problem will go away on it's own.
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I have a great update on one of our late payers:
He was last cleaned last October and then in November and obviously had no intention of paying, so after several letters we added a £5 late payment fee. Still nothing so we started adding interest and kept sending him statements. In our last letter we threatened legal action.
Could not believe it when we received an email advising he was moving but also that he had payed by bank transfer, even more surprised today when the money reached my account. He had paid not only the original amount but also the charge and interest.
He then had the cheek to tell us he no longer needed our services....as if!!!
Didn't think we would ever get paid for this one, so thats one win for the window cleaners!
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I had one who owed me about £25 and I was chasing her for about a year. I would see her almost every time I was round the area but she would always say with a smile something like "Got nothing on me mate,can you come round monday?" (and subsequently wouldnt be in). I left lots of notes telling her in writing that I would like it payed as soon as possible and how many months late it was.
When she finally paid it was only cos I left a note saying If she didnt pay then I'd have no choice but to return with a police officer. I think it was the thought of an embarrassing situation that made her finally pay. Rest assured I crossed her off the books.
She was a single mother but if you can't afford to pay a window cleaner you shouldnt have one. There was often lots of wine and beer bottles and new household items boxes round her bins so she mustn't have been that hard up!
Anyway, the police officer bluff seemed to work! I'll be using that one again.
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P.s. - Didn't know late payment fees worked in our vocation! Does it work?
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you should of pulled and slept with his girl friend. i did it because a guy owed me £30 3x£10 cleans. i left him 4 notes asking for payment with S.A.O hes loaded too so its not like he couldnt aford it just a prat. wonder if he ever fornd out? she payed me cash too BTW. lol
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P.s. - Didn't know late payment fees worked in our vocation! Does it work?
Works for me
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We all have the above problems and there needs to be a website (little black book) for a list of non-payers/bad payers so window cleaners can avoid them.
If they then know they cannot get a window cleaner they will soon start paying.
just a thought.
Ive had plenty in my time.
Thanks Robbie
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We all have the above problems and there needs to be a website (little black book) for a list of non-payers/bad payers so window cleaners can avoid them.
If they then know they cannot get a window cleaner they will soon start paying.
just a thought.
Ive had plenty in my time.
Thanks Robbie
I dont think this would be legal
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my son is working on a website at the moment - hopefully will be online in the next month. He wants it to be a UK-wide list of bad payers etc, there are a few problems such as people moving etc but he should get that sorted out ok.
didn't want to let the cat out of the bag but felt it was the right time.
How do the rest of you feel about it?
He says he may need to charge a nominal fee to cover bandwidth costs etc but that it would most likely be about £1 a month.
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my son is working on a website at the moment - hopefully will be online in the next month. He wants it to be a UK-wide list of bad payers etc, there are a few problems such as people moving etc but he should get that sorted out ok.
didn't want to let the cat out of the bag but felt it was the right time.
How do the rest of you feel about it?
He says he may need to charge a nominal fee to cover bandwidth costs etc but that it would most likely be about £1 a month.
I doubt very much if this would be a wise move. You would have to post peoples addresses and details and make it available to the web for anyone to see.
Check where you stand legally, before you get yourself into trouble
Arthur
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I doubt that enough window cleaners would exchange information to make it effective but its a good idea.
It would be very interesting to know the history of some of these customers, what happened with the previous window cleaner, and the one before that.
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my son is working on a website at the moment - hopefully will be online in the next month. He wants it to be a UK-wide list of bad payers etc, there are a few problems such as people moving etc but he should get that sorted out ok.
didn't want to let the cat out of the bag but felt it was the right time.
How do the rest of you feel about it?
He says he may need to charge a nominal fee to cover bandwidth costs etc but that it would most likely be about £1 a month.
I smell juicy solicitors fees! How do you know the difference between genuine non payers and the people who irratated their window cleaner by maybe having the audacity to complain about shoddy work, who then decided to add them to your data base?
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crack two eggs in a bowl,mix them up in a blender,empty a w/up liquid bottle, pour in the blended egg,then go and squirt it over his windows.Don't throw eggs @ the window as that could crack the glass.
Fair enough it won't recover the dosh but @ least you'll feel revenge on the tw@. >:( >:( ;D ;D
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Try an aerosol can of bicycle chain grease if you want to go down that route. Personally, Im not that partial to prison food.
A mate of mine who is a taxi driver and works nights used to get paid by a debt collector to phone people at three oclock in the morning and ask them when they were going to pay. He would call from a phone box so the calls couldn't be traced.
It was very effective apparantly and he was quite well paid for it.