Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: david washbrook on April 20, 2008, 10:58:24 pm
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not wanting to stir things up but i mist the previous post so i just wanted to say that paul has helped loads of us, even at the ccdo he said that you should go on a proper course and he actuly said either LTT OR FURNITURE CLINIC so he is only trying to help he also said where to buy the sponges he uses solutions uk
i didnt read judys post it was delated before i read it but all i can say is judy you are out of order paul has promoted your company so why not be greatfull.
i for 1 will use paul's ideas as he has nothing to gain not like some others
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:o WHAT HAVE I MISSED
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Well said Dave,
He's said the same to me about gaining benefit from doing both LTT and furniture clinics courses.
He's not biased towards any supplier he just says what method and supplies he prefers to use.
He and Judy have had a difference in opinion on several occasions which seems to have spilled over this time.
Its a shame because I thought this forum was non supplier biased and everyone had a chance to air their opinions and experiences freely. Other forums have suffered because they have turned into 'use our products or dont come on here'.
I posted a link to an article in cleaning matters magazine a couple of days ago about the ccdo which was deleted for some reason. Cant understand why??
This is a great forum (the best forum) and hopefully will remain to be for many years to come.
Just seems of late a few things have happened behind the scenes which I'm not sure about.
All the best,
Jason.
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Hi caught up with what has been going on now can't go away for a few day's.!!!!!!!
WELL SAID DAVE i for one have had GOOD UNBIASED help from Paul and REALLY HOPE he will come back on the forum. IT WOULD BE THE FORUMS LOSS AND OUR IF HE LEAVES. Come on moderators take into account our views.
TONY
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tony dont worrie about paul julians dropping some gear off round wales on thursday ill get him to pop round his house and tie him to his compter chair ;)
and if he stops posting i think we may have to clog his email account up from his site ;D
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Hang on a minute. I have no axe to grind here and would never support someone as blatantly pedantic as Judy from LTT.
So much so, that when deciding to attend one of the many available Leather courses, I chose to go to Newcastle and I'm glad I did. But, I have also attended one of the regional open days run by LTT and found them to be probably equally knowledgable.
So in terms of quality, knowledge, products, they are very similar.
Andy from LTT is a very pleasant, well mannered and knowledgable gent' who everyone on here would get on with and he is an excellent communicator.
I fully appreciate Paul being a bit peeved by her ever present, seemingly looking over his shoulder, waiting to pounce at every post he makes, but...............
If I had spent some years building a business and making sure I was well informed about all aspects of the business, only to find someone questioning everything I believed in and making comparisons and generally suggesting on a public forum, that I didn't know what I was talking about..........
I would not be a happy bunny. Who would ?
If you set yourself up as a guru, people will throw stones at you, and some will keep throwing them to knock you off your pedestal. If you are a threat, you can expect to be treated as a threat.
Personalities often get in the way of progress and good business practice, which is sad.
I have posted about Judy's uncompromising manner before. I suggested she might learn from the way Ed Valentine presents himself on forums, ever humble, charming, but always maintaining his connection with potential buyers, but some people are unable to back down and thrive on conflict.
As for turning your back on the forum which gave you the opportunity to do all thats been done recently and allowed so many friendships to blossom and businesses to improve and ideas to be discussed...................that is sad. Particularly when condemning the people who provide the forum and allow open discussion.
Having looked at the other place, it's not short of advertising and you know it's run by the person who has been a constant pain over the past year or so with misleading posts, in an attempt to steal from this forum, because he was unable to achieve the membership to sustain his.
No doubt this will be read by many " statesmen " in the industry and they will probably all give a gentle shake of their head and think to themselves, should I comment ? no don't think so, there'll be another similar situation along and more conflict of opinion. That's life !!!!
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here here rob well said
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Much of what you have said is true Rob but I can tell you that the word guru would make Paul cringe as he is not that, he just has a method that he has found works very well and is not in the training books.
If you ask Paul who the guru is he will probably say Andy or Keith.
As for being a threat, I don't agree that this gives another party the right to constantly barrack an individual who is trying to help others (open forum or not). If you owned Sebo would you consistently attack Dave Liahona's post because he does'nt pre-vac?
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Not sure why these things always blow up at the Weeekend, do you Guys not have families
On Leather I have been concerned for some time that it would end in tears.
I can understand that Judy and Andy were upset at not being allowed to attend CCDO when Leather Clinic did
I also have symphony with Paul for not wanting any potentential anmonsoity during his demo.
Judy I watched Pauls Demo twice. He advised people to attend training at LTT or Funiture Clinic.
The Sponges were explained plus their potential Dangers none of which occured during the Demonstration, It would be up to the ndividual if they bothered to get some.
Most people myself included enjoyed his Session. With respect to Mike, Doug, and Dave , I think his was the best session
Chris missed yours all together.
If I was running a Leather training School i would see it all as a positive.
I last time I looked over 177 had looked at your traing dates, and many mre prior to that.
What was said over the Weekend I have no idea so I will have to leave it to Doug and Mike
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regarding LTT being allowed to promote on here.
at one stage there was no leather information on here at all.
Judy appeared on Cleantalk and appeared to be in the Solutions Camp.
Then Steve i think started plugging Funiture Clinic I cannot reall deleting any posts.
more recentley The guy in Canada posted quite a few posts promoting his product.
So Chaps please do not acuse me or other moderators being biased.
aas far as I can see my crime was asking why Andy could not come to CCDO as I have always tried not to favour any company.
Check my record I have no record of promoting any company on a regular basis.
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I missed the comments from LTT over the weekend, but not suprised at what has happened - 2 people so far apart, never goignt to come together, but both part of this forum.
I have been on a 2 day Furniture Clininc course and on a evening seminar with LTT and found both of them very good.
I have both Furniture Clinics products and LTT products in my arsenal and use both of them - often on the same job.
Judy may be a purist, hence the title Leather Technical & Training, and what Paul was doing at the CCDO may grate against her better nature........ but we learn the theory, put into practice, then very often find a shortcut that still works.
Thats what we discuss on here many times covering many features - sharing what works for you with others.
At CCDO Paul was doing just that - and I suspect if Judy had been there she may well have gone bald.
But it works ............ as demonstrated by Paul..... and no doubt tried by others including myself since.
Paul said you have to be careful with the sponges, those he used he got from Solutions UK, you have to not let them get dryish or they will "grip" and may damage the surface. Paul said this a couple of times - he advised to keep them wet.
I ordered some sponges and followed his tips on a white leather corner suite, and posted the results on here.
Nice and clean, and cut the time cleaning as well.
I do wish that LTT had been in attendence at CCDO. There is just 2 major players I am aware of in the leather cleaning field and it would have been nice for both to be represented. Maybe next year if there is more space, hopefully at the same venue again.
My advice, for what it is worth .......
to Judy, just relax, accept that someones going to do something against you inner professional feelings. Sit back a bit more on the forum and take note of how other suppliers dont get involved too much promoting their own products. You can contribute much by generalising, and I am sure I am not the only one who does appreciate the comments for suppliers when not too strong.
to Paul, again relax, and dont let others wind you up so much. Learn to ignore some comments that are made that rattle you - rise above them (too much blood pressure is bad for you). Being on a forum type situation makes it very easy to ignore someone - try it!
Can we get back to normal soon, please.
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everybody has the right to post here..........
if i suggested that i use HM blitz followed by PROCHEM extraction pro an an acid rinse from ASHBYS........
i dont have derek ashby coming here telling me that its wrong....or mike from express or whoever from hm calling/messaging etc
1 product from one company may not work as well as another from a different source
that is MY chosen/proven choice......... the most recommened/expensive chemicals may not be the best to use in any given situation
hope that this is all a storm in a teacup and that normal service will resume
including postings from mr moss
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Although I don't like the style of Judy Bass, I understand her reasons for being so forthright in her posts, she has years of experience in a specialist field and feels she is an authority.
Paul is a maverick ( which is more my style ) but I can understand Judy feeling her business and credibility being threatened, unfortunately her reaction is confrontational and this loses more support than it gains.
In my "other work " I present a similar problem to osteopaths and chiropractors, as I can resolve problems in minutes, which they have failed to resolve in years. So I am regarded as a threat to not only their credibility, but their income.
As in my case...............there will never be a meeting of minds, or a willingness to accept the mavericks view or method, no matter the outcome.
We have to live with pains in our necks / thorns in our flesh, or whatever, when we get rid of one, another pops up, it's never going to change.
When someone finds something that works and tests it thoroughly, then shares it, that is to be admired and applauded.
When someone has experience and knowledge, but also has tunnel vision and a closed mindset, that is sad and unfortunate.
Taking sides won't help, as that will simply play into the hands of the ubiquitous predator, hanging around in the shadows, rubbing their hands with anticipation.
rob
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Paul just does it to HELP us on the forum NOT FOR PROFIT OR GAIN he's one of the good guy's
CHEERS TONY
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The thing is Rob that the 'guru' status is what Judy wants and Paul has been given, Judy has not just fallen out with Paul but also publically argued with Ben at Furniture Clinic all be her own doing, I think she just wants to be the biggest fish in the pool.
She's very quiet at the moment and it's better that way, I hope the dust takes a long time to settle so we do not see her back here for a very long time, as of this time I see here not being welcome.
Shaun
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judyb registered over there as well :o
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Too late Shaun, she replied very sensibly to a question at 3.40pm.
and I for one am glad to see her back.
she may be outspoken and goes a bit too far at times but there is a place for everyone.
equally, I would be glad to see Paul back too - a place for everyone.
Sad that some seem to defected to another channel.
and as Chris just said Judy is regitered there - I spotted that 3 weeks ago when I signed on.
bit disrespectful I feel to the sponsors of this site after the help they gave in getting CCDo off the ground.
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Still awaiting to hear from mods and forum owners to see if any action is taking place against her?
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Yeh Joe i hope Paul comes back we need input from people like him.
Tony
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Yes Steve Doug said he had close the other post for now to look into it we need to know??? What they the moderators have to say.
Tony
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I can't believe the amount of crap being posted on this subject,
Steve, what has she done that needs 'action to be taken'
I read her response to Paul's post, all she said was 'not all chemicals are the same' (or something like that) maybe if she had left it we would get all the daft comments,
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what other channel?
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Mike is was more like a personal attack, it got deleted but knowone know by whom!
Shaun
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Thanks guys lets just put this to bed now.
Think Shaun is my greatest fan :-*
Lets start talking about Halliday instead, as he is just a miserable git :D
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I can't believe the amount of crap being posted on this subject,
Steve, what has she done that needs 'action to be taken'
I read her response to Paul's post, all she said was 'not all chemicals are the same' (or something like that) maybe if she had left it we would get all the daft comments,
For one she needs to tone down her replies and that needs to come from the owners of the board.
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Steve that is very true but will not happen as there is a link with them at some stage, but I dont know where, she seems to have cart blanch.
Other things are in the pipe line ;)
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Paul
I don't know you & I also don't know Judy. If you believe in what you have to offer to this industry, and from the above posts, alot of cleaners obviously believe this considerable, then surely you must have the balls to stand up and be counted; not slink away. Sh*t gets thrown at us many times throughout our professional lives. You either stand up to it & ignore it or let it destroy you
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Paul its not a case of slinking a way. It was more a stand for the forum and why some suppliers are allowed to say what they like and also make thousands of pounds out of free publicity yet others are not allowed or would not be allowed to say boo.
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With the strong link LTT has elswhere I'd be surprised if there was a link here.
rob
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Paul
Why not let the owners/moderators of the forum make those decisions & you carry on giving your advice which is appreciated by many here (and elsewhere). Am sure that those who value your views are also discerning enough to accept or reject any critism that might be thrown at your views
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Rob the link is strongest here.
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Paul
Why not let the owners/moderators of the forum make those decisions & you carry on giving your advice which is appreciated by many here (and elsewhere). Am sure that those who value your views are also discerning enough to accept or reject any critism that might be thrown at your views
Paul it looks like that is now the situation
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OK Paul no doubt we will be enlightened at some point, incidentally I eventually got the opportunity to use the little sponge on a filthy suite and the result was outstanding.
Will be ordering a quantity of them and wondered if the bigger one is the logical choice.
I have a suite to fix, where the owner has rubbed through the finish and the pigment, leaving a blue depression in the blue dyed hide. should be interesting.
rob
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Will be ordering a quantity of them and wondered if the bigger one is the logical choice.
I got the bigger ones - more cost effective
Big ones can be cut into smaller ones.
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As far as I know there is no Link to LTT
You are obviously concerned because Judy has a Sticky at top page.
OK I did that.
The reason was because we allowed Leather Doctor several posts. funiture clinic had a stand ay CDDO
At the end of this week it will be removed and transfered to Events
I would be prepared to do the same for Funiture Clinic
The only reason it happened was Leather became a hot potato
After that all future events will go in The Events Section of the Forum.
I fail to understand comment about others not being allowed to say boo.
I retain my independence as Moderator to make decisions.
My loyalty is to this Forum. I can asure you that for as long as Doug and I have been Moderating this Forum the owners ie Mike Boxall has never told us what to do or interfare but does mediate if required at our request. and of Course has the Red card
So it does make this a truly Independent Forum
I
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That, Mr Gourley is the best post you have ever made and has, hopefully cleared things up. I'm always aware that I am a guest on here and try to behave like one, eg, chat, laugh, argue, learn, discuss, etc.
An open forum where you can openly discuss the entire industry and challenge not only old methods / products, but new ones as well, is great for the industry.
Recent events have probably misled a number of people into thinking, some of the establishment is a non entity, when in reality, they have simply done what a bunch of guys did decades ago and planted the seed for a new entity, or better still, caused the establishment to consider adopting change, always painfull.
There is a vibrancy on here from a group of twenty, or maybe fifty people, who are prepared to talk to each other and share their experiences, with no hidden agendas.
Because there is no profit motive, ideas and methods can be thrashed to death, or introduced introduced without fear of embarassment.
By avoiding the " big is best " mentality, or the " must have it 'cause it's new" syndrome, this forum has settled over the past year into an excellent " talking shop "and that is what it's all about.
When everyone chips in and has their say, everyone benefits.
Sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I don't know when to shut up, sometimes ?
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This reminds me of my days working in offices. Something is said, then blows up into a big issue, and then colleagues polarise.
In my humble opinion, the best thing to happen would be for the two parties concerned to continue to post as if nothing had happened, and stay out of each other's way... so that we can all benefit.
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Spot on Turney
Unusual forename Turney, what's the origin ?
rob
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Spot on Turney
Unusual forename Turney, what's the origin ?
rob
Was a surname in the family. My father thought it was a good idea to give me it as a first name to keep the name going. Please feel free to take the p***. Everyone else does.