Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: geefree on April 04, 2008, 10:37:03 pm
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Was chatting to another w/c the other day, he had a very smart new van, well written with the famous logo... he had spent a fortune buying all the gear belonging to the famous logo.. poles, pumps, tank.. everything...he had various poles... and also had a trolley system at home.....
i aproached him as i was really impressed with his set up, and jealous if i am honest.
it soon became clear he hardly used this gear, .. in fact whilst i was talking to him, he was filling his bucket and getting ready to trad clean.....
he did mainly town centre shops, offices and the like.....trad...
i asked him all about his equipment and he said he hardly uses it....
but he knew everything about everything to do with wfp.... and he had spent a small fortune.
yet he preferred trad. i think he made a mistake and cannot get away from the trad method of cleaning.
i clean everything with wfp.... i am not one to say i like to keep my hand in trad... because i dont! if i am truthful.
are there any other guys out there who own everything wfp and never use it.?
Gary.
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i met a guy a few months ago,scud knows him too,nice 06 scudo on board ro etc uses wfp on commercial and was doing house next to me trad(bit quicker than i would have but still slower than pole)but that was how he worked :)
i do like to keep my hand in on trad and i still get ladders out for first cleans,sometimes a good wipe down on the first clean takes minutes and pays dividends,after that tho its wfp every time ;D
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They probably couldn't handle the negative criticisms of trying to convert their existing domestic trad customers over to WFP and switched back to trad for a hassle free life; worrying about repaying for the expensive WFP investment they had just taken out. Probably couldn't afford to lose any customers so never really saw the true potential to make more money WFP instead of trad. Why spend all that money if they're not going to get maximum benefits from using it.
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i'm not wfp but looking in to getting a trolley to test the water so to speak. but i'm worried it wont be as fast as me. i've had days when ive been on the same street as a local wfp fella and ive been doing two houses to his one. he just smiled and said flash git. but it dose make me worry that i'm gonna spend out on something that wont make me any faster.
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it will make you two men to one
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If your that fast then rest assured one day you will make a mistake on the ladder, most of us have done it at some point and who's flash then?
WFP can make you quicker it can also allow you to do a more thorough job frames ect and command a higher price, IMO go for it a trolley may be OK but you'll soon want a van mount.
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i really dont mean to be rude but please will you stop trying to scare munger people in to switching to wfp. window cleaning is 1000times safer than my last job. i wont fall ive been at it now 7 years. i know my limets. i want to switch to fee up time. ive got a baby on the way in may and although i'm doing well i'd like to have more spare time to spend being a dad.
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ive got a baby on the way in may
Congratulations Matey!
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Fare enough your sorted then twice as quick stay traditional no problem.
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if you invest in wfp it will be the best thing youve ever done for your business. before i went wfp i was running up and down ladders like an lunatic ,missing out runs on the ladder and everything. but if you know how to use the gear properly ide like to see anyone cleen a house faster than me trad. impossible!!!!!!!!
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i've seen guys with 10k systems in the back of their van. wfp the upstairs and blading the downstairs. if you spend 10k use it and leave your 15.99 blades at home ;D
we never put a blade to an outside window, you invest in the technology so use it!! ;D ;D if you can't get the results as good then you need to be trained in using your 10k system ;) ;D
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i agree with that
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its ok :-\ but theres a lot out there that think its crap personaly,it has its place,we do not use it,cannot justify the cost of buying them :-\ so many on the market they are all cutting there own throats now,4 years ago at windex ther were some wfp,now at windex they should have called it the wfc show,only so many poles you can look at ::) all comes down to cost we know who is the dearest,and the cheapest if they do the same job well thats it. ;) its all down to there marketing and sales who can put the most money into Adds etc..in time to came you will be able to but wfp loads cheaper,there is only room for so many the market is already starting to flood. :-\ if this country at some point has a water ban,for a long period there will be a lot of wfp on Ebay!
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Hi Terry! you are fast! out of interest do you ever use wfp and also is there any record for the fastest wfp cleaner?
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i'm not wfp but looking in to getting a trolley to test the water so to speak. but i'm worried it wont be as fast as me. i've had days when ive been on the same street as a local wfp fella and ive been doing two houses to his one. he just smiled and said flash git. but it dose make me worry that i'm gonna spend out on something that wont make me any faster.
Wfp has good and bad points, just remember that as very, very few people will offer you the bad points. Depending on the type of work you do wfp also has the potential to slow you down as well as speed you up. I do both & i have many jobs where i can trad quicker & easier than wfp! I also have jobs that just coudn't be done with ladders & jobs where i'm twice as fast wfp. It's not all about just cleaning the window but more so the amount of time from start to finnish. dragging hose. plant pots, wheelie bins, waiting for drips to stop from top windows before you can do bottoms, reeling hose back in, it getting caught on anything & everything that protrudes from the ground etc. Think carefully about the switch, it is generaly a good move BUT don't be fooled regarding the complete over the top over-hype of the magic wand! ;)
Tony
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i moan like mad at snagging and tripping over .think i will moan alot more laid up in hospital after coming off me ladders.for those invested in wfp and dont use has got to be plain stupid.it does take alot of time,effort and energy transfering them over from trad to wfp but worth it in the long run.just have 2 stick with it.
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A UP OASIS HOW YOU DOING THE TROLLEY SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE FINISHED ON MONDAY ILE GIV YOU A RING AND DROP IT ROUND WHEN ITS DONE. LOOKING AWSOME
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i really dont mean to be rude but please will you stop trying to scare munger people in to switching to wfp. window cleaning is 1000times safer than my last job. i wont fall ive been at it now 7 years. i know my limets.
I did read somewhere, that according to Churchill Insurance, window cleaning is the most dangerous none professional job in the UK..... With an average of 5 deaths a year in the trade.........
So what wasyour other job that was 1000 times more dangerous then.....?
Regards
Mr H
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no we do not use wfp just have no call or use for them,less window cleaning the better ;D hate winter would like to get into the promoting side more ;D
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i really dont mean to be rude but please will you stop trying to scare munger people in to switching to wfp. window cleaning is 1000times safer than my last job. i wont fall ive been at it now 7 years. i know my limets.
I did read somewhere, that according to Churchill Insurance, window cleaning is the most dangerous none professional job in the UK..... With an average of 5 deaths a year in the trade.........
So what wasyour other job that was 1000 times more dangerous then.....?
Regards
Mr H
Probably cleaning the outside of planes - while in flight.
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Hi Terry! you are fast! out of interest do you ever use wfp and also is there any record for the fastest wfp cleaner?
There are too many variables with WFP to have timed events.
When you speed clean with trad in competitions you can set the parameters and check them instantly, with WFP you have to wait for the glass to dry before you can check them, and of course once a window has been cleaned a couple of times WFP all you would need to do is spray it with water.
With trad you have to get rid of soap lines and squeegee lines and so on, it is all measurable and definable.
As a general rule, in normal use an average 3 pane casement window done trad will take about 90 seconds to clean, including detailing and sills.
The same window done WFP should only take about 30 seconds.
In daily use you should be at least 30% quicker with WFP.
Squeaky saw me in town the other week using WFP on a large single pane of glass on a coffee shop in our local town.
He sent a jokey text saying why? He would be much faster doing it trad!
We chatted about it later, but I thought about what he said and thought I'd stopwatch myself on this pane of glass.
I can just reach it without need of a pole, so I washed & squeegee'd it quickly at my normal pace (which isn't slow I might add).
Time taken = 58 seconds.
Did it WFP, had to spend extra time on it cos of soap sud residue.
Time taken 35 seconds.
It FELT faster done trad, but the reality was that WFP was quicker.
Now don't get me wrong, if I had wanted to to I could have matched the quicker time if I'd been treating it as a race, using the two handed technique I'd have flown though it, but you don't work at race speed in reality, and it would also have taken several attempts to get it flawless.
If our Turbo Terry didn't have any mistakes his world record would be even faster than it is now.
To spend so much on expensive equipment and then not learn how to use it properly...so, so foolish.
Ian
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yes very true Ian, for example world record would have been 8.24 seconds,I got just 2 faults which makes things tough! but your right no good having wfp if you cant use correctly :-\
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Hi there all thought ide have to come in on this topic.Well ive been cleaning windows for 12yrs. 5yrs trad and the last 7yrs wfp.started a new job with wfp that was all contract work 7yrs ago,and at that time was the first time i had ever seen windows being done this way.And no one seem to know alot about it which was a night-mere so i was on one big learning curve.since that time ive never looked back cuz despite all the set backs (and problems)early on i discovered one thing and that was that some jobs come perfect fist clean and outhers still spotting or sheating 5 cleans later but with perseverance all jobs did eventully come good.after leaving that job started working for a company that was just changing over from trad to clean all there residents houses to wfp. and this is were it gets tricky if your going to do them trad then do them trad but if your going to do them wfp then do them all wfp cuz this is the only way you will see all the benifits(in my opinion)why clean just the tops wfp and the downs trad you end up having to have all your wfp gear and trad gear with you at once your losing or sorry wasting time.plus leaving customers wondering whats going on,if yor going to spend thousonds on wfp equipment then have a little faith in this product.I KNOW IT TAKES TIME.But i find that this has been the way forward i think alot of window cleaners try it and give up to early we changed all houses over and we stuck at it and only lost 5 customers over-all 3 of which have since come back,so a tip ally window frames just forget it,wooden frames some-where between 4-6 cleans before job is spot on.pvc 2-4 cleans,but you always have the frames to mention this will help you keep the customer on your side in the early stages.so thank for reading and hope it might keep some of you to continue and not give up before you start only them that do will see the benifits after that stage.so this applys to houses,contract work with tinted windows and reflective glass well thats anouther story lol good luck hope i have helped.
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With WFP if i wanted to now i could work 3 days a week and earn the same living as a trad cleaner working 5 if not more,when i realised this it was enough for me to remain WFP and do the odd house trad way.At the end of the day we all want to get the best living we can and with WFP your get a much much better living with energy left over at the end of the day,if you get behind with your work trad way your forever chasing your tail trying to catch up and very rarely acheiving your aim,with WFP staying on top of your work is never a problem.
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:-\ so because if you have wfp you would charge more ??? or would have to ???
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A UP OASIS HOW YOU DOING THE TROLLEY SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE FINISHED ON MONDAY ILE GIV YOU A RING AND DROP IT ROUND WHEN ITS DONE. LOOKING AWSOME
oasis
good to see your test driving the new xline trolley i'll come round to have a look at it next week in operation from what i have seen of it in james xline shop it looked very impressive and light. Hope it takes off
good luck
regards
Brett
ps, oasis how many trolleys does that make you now? ;D
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Terry yes when picking up new customers defo charge more but if your transfering old trad customers over to wfp then will have to leave price,s same as you will have enough problems on your hands at first well thats what i found any-way
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interesting :-\ its converting people then :-\ ::)
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do you do all your work trad at mo you can convert ppl over but you have got to get as much in-sight into reach and wash as you can first so you know whats what. Customers are going to ask questions,and you need to be cofident in your answer, it cost a bit to get set up.so a big bonus when you know what the d/i vessel does/whats the r/o does,and then all the health and saftey aspect and so on
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i really dont mean to be rude but please will you stop trying to scare munger people in to switching to wfp. window cleaning is 1000times safer than my last job. i wont fall ive been at it now 7 years. i know my limets. i want to switch to fee up time. ive got a baby on the way in may and although i'm doing well i'd like to have more spare time to spend being a dad.
I've picked up plenty of work in the past from 2 very exerienced trad window cleaners who were both very mature who both fell off their ladders and have had to give up work completely. I'm not surprised they fell off their ladders where they had their accidents. When I use to trad their areas, there were certain houses I simply refused to put a ladder on the ground and climb up, because of the slippery surfaces being a health hazzard risk I WFP them all now. I still get a few of these customers ask me if I'll take them on...yes I tell them with WFP but not using a ladder, still they decline my offer.....one day I'll get them as no sensible trad cleaner is mad enough to put a ladder on them anymore.
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we dont use wfp but I know for a fact that some people just dont want all that water flying around
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fao brett walker.with my trolleys all your poles,gary s new invention we could rule the windowing world!!!!!!!!!!!!
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i thought ppl would not be happy with water all round the place at first but they didnt seem to mind once all there frames are done and you tell them about the health and safety issues
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Terry
Its true some people dont like it , but 95% of people tolerate it, wether there happy with it that is a different matter.
I gave up asking what people thought, I just get on with it and treat it as normal.
I dont even mention it to new customers, most people have seen it one place or another and just assume it is the "normal"
I reckon , I have now lost 30 domestic customers and 1 small commercial in 3 years of wfp, and if you asked me which customers i would lose i could of pointed them out beforehand.
Some of the losses were due to staff being slack with the wfp,
I have a customer base of 100 commercial customers and 400 domestics so the losses werent to bad considering.
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p.s if i lost all the customers tommorrow , i think i would be happy.
I could take early retirement instead of being a slave, i am now 40 years old , i could die any time soon so whats the point of worrying.
You cant take your customers to your grave.
You just have to do what makes you happy and dont worry to much about the dosh
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good point dave
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Terry i am not happy with all that water around - when it rains!
but whadya do ;D
Tris
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Dave your just a baby 40 yrs old ;D its just feed back that I am posting on here that I get to hear about or said to etc :) we just dont have any need for wfp,
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I think too many people have the misconception that a trad cleaner is somehow a cowboy &/or is not capable of earning decsent money. How very, very wrong they are. I know a trad cleaner & i'd ditch ALL my wfp work tomorrow for his trad work! He has the life of riley, 35k per year, rolls out of bed at 10am, never works a weekend etc.etc. This is not bull, (it's a relative of mine) It's not the method, it's the customer base & your ability to price correctley + the area you work. A lot of my best paying work is trad stuff, not particularly by choice, just not suitable for wfp & i price very, very well for trad work. ;)
A good trad w/c, using good tools & a good solution, on general domestic work, in time wise is not much different from wfp & many occasions faster!
From many posts i read on here i can only assume there are not many good trad cleaners out there, espesially the ones who've gone wfp! :D
Tony
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er base & your ability to price correctley + the area you work. A lot of my best paying work is trad stuff, not particularly by choice, just not suitable for wfp & i price very, very well for trad work. ;)
A good trad w/c, using good tools & a good solution, on general domestic work, in time wise is not much different from wfp & many occasions faster!
From many posts i read on here i can only assume there are not many good trad cleaners out there, espesially the ones who've gone wfp! :D
Tony
Tony, most of us were good trad cleaners before we changed to WFP.
Most trad guys have never heard of this site, many of us found this site when we were researching WFP.
WFP being mechanical will give problems from time to time, we search for solutions on this forum.
The vast majority of window cleaners are still trad, if their is a bias on here towards WFP it's because most of us have invested in it, it doesn't give a true reflexion of the entire window cleaning industry, but things are changing fast.
The one negative thing with WFP, is that many guys have moved into window cleaning that would get dizzy standing on a chair. The competition is increasing by the day. Dai
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Macmac
I could roll out of bed at 10.00 am and earn £35k trad, instead i choose to earn way more and work longer hours with wfp.
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Terry
I wasnt trying to justify wfp to you !!!
You know me better than that. ;D
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Macmac
I could roll out of bed at 10.00 am and earn £35k trad, instead i choose to earn way more and work longer hours with wfp.
Yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnn ::)
Change the record dave ::)
Tony
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macmac
You seem to have a problem with me , lets here it ?
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Macmac
I could roll out of bed at 10.00 am and earn £35k trad, instead i choose to earn way more and work longer hours with wfp.
To true that Dave,there`s easier ways to earn more money.
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i do think testing the water with a trolley system is what i shall do 1st b4 forking out loads for a vanmount. i'm not too fussed bout customas not wanting to switch over as ive bearly any compertition where i work and the compertition i do have is grumpy old men that neither the old dears like chatting to or the young yummy mummys like looking at ;). so i pick work up really easy weather i trad it or if i go wfp. its time that hinders me.
p.s thanks to the doode that congratulated me on the baby, and as for what i did as a last job mr H. i was in the infantry.
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DCS08, Good luck with the baby etc, but you need to do some thinking. Forget how you're going to do the job (WFP van/trolley whatever). Think about your (potential) customers and how are you going to get them. With quotes like " i'm not too fussed bout customas not wanting to switch over as ive bearly any compertition where i work and the compertition i do have is grumpy old men that neither the old dears like chatting to or the young yummy mummys like looking at" you'll need a lot of luck and a few customers. With baby on the way, you'd be taking a risk, to put it mildly, to invest with no customers. You maybe think you're confident, but it comes across as arrogance. You might be in for a shock.
Good luck anyway, but don't rush in. And as an aside, just because you managed to dodge the bullets, don't assume that a ladder is friendly ;)
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macmac
You seem to have a problem with me , lets here it ?
Repetitive posts are so, so boring. ::) we all know you're a big hitter, get over it :-[
Tony
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When i have i ever repeated myself ?
Why do you always feel the need to have a go at me about everything ? Do you know me ?
If I were you i would start being nicer to people, like i said last time you are starting to become very rude.
Big hitter, not me just an hard worker, I am small fry compared to dozens of people on here.
Dave
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Dave, don't worry about macmac, his bark is worse than his bite ;) Once you get used to his manner (blunt) you'll find he is one of the few that talks quite a lot of sense on here. Don't get drawn in - it's not like you. :)
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you post this
p.s if i lost all the customers tommorrow , i think i would be happy.
I could take early retirement instead of being a slave, i am now 40 years old , i could die any time soon so whats the point of worrying.
You cant take your customers to your grave.
You just have to do what makes you happy and dont worry to much about the dosh
Then totaly contradict yourself with this
Macmac
I could roll out of bed at 10.00 am and earn £35k trad, instead i choose to earn way more and work longer hours with wfp.
My post wasn't aimed at you but it contained reference to someone doing well so AGAIN you but in just to let us all know AGAIN just how big a concern you are. we all know it, you constantly tell us, it's the nature of this that is boring.
Change the record, post something helpfull to the mafority of w/cers instead of boring the pants of us bragging all the time! :o
Tony
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Dave, I'd urge you to read macmac's posts. Generally, not just on this thread. The reason he winds a lot of people up is that he says what he thinks. People prefer to talk about X£ per hour or wfp is best and if you don't agree with me I'll scream and scream until you do.
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I Have been cleaning windows less than 2 years, as some of you will remember, i must have asked 10 questions per day ;)
i practiced with a squeegee on my own house dozens and dozens of times , before i dared to venture out, but with all your help... off i went, and i soon got fairly quick at it , and i enjoyed it.
but i did not enjoy getting the ladders on and off the van , after each clean...as obviously to begin with , all my calls were scattered...... nor did i enjoy being scared stiff at the top of a ladder when a gust of wind threatened to rugby tackle me to the ground!...
so for me as a newbie... reading all your posts regarding wfp was something i was determined to get into, for my own safety, and , so i could make more money, quicker
regardless of the arguments regarding wfp and trad... (which is where this topic is heading)
to me it was about safety...
Today, there are more questions than ever on here wfp... because of the various ways of working a water fed pole.... and different equipment needed,... but i still believe trad cleans the windows better (glass).....and i respect the guys who are trad.
but i bought the gear. spent lots and still am, to make my life easier... so i dont do any trad now at all.... i dont understand tops wfp.... bottoms trad?.. why?.... that would slow me down and confuse my customers...
to me its the way forward, and i think eventually the name of a window cleaner will improve, as people see the investments we are making , so we are hardly likely to disappear , as some fly by night window cleaners do. after spending, and we are starting to look more professional.. nice vans, new equipment, uniforms etc.
A Whole new outlook from a customer point of view... and a safer more profitable job...
from our point of view.
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fight fight fight its like being at school sometimes some of you guys do make me laugh ps dont start on me now will ya lol marc
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marc
I wish he would, he would leave me alone then. ;D
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wot a carry on. like women really girls is it needed? you been watching too much aprentice! lol
as for aragance on my behalf fleen, yes i am always. i'm good and have earnt the rite to be. but never to customas faces. i'm as smarmy as all you guys probaly are. at the end of the day work is work.
if you saw some of the old relics that call them selfs w/c you would know what i mean. 55 years old still working 6 days a week for them selfs on there own out of the back of there escort est. ''ive been at this game 30 years sonny there nothing you can teach me'' pmsl. dont get me wrong i'm very respectfull of my elders and all but it really winds me up that just because you have been doing a job for a thousand years dont mean your any good at it!
sorry bit of a tanjent i know but i just wanted to exsplane why i made such a bold comment b4, oh and as for the yummy mummys bit, lol. i wont go in to that because i will be acused of being big headed :)
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wot a carry on. like women really girls is it needed? you been watching too much aprentice! lol
as for aragance on my behalf fleen, yes i am always. i'm good and have earnt the rite to be. but never to customas faces. i'm as smarmy as all you guys probaly are. at the end of the day work is work.
if you saw some of the old relics that call them selfs w/c you would know what i mean. 55 years old still working 6 days a week for them selfs on there own out of the back of there escort est. ''ive been at this game 30 years sonny there nothing you can teach me'' pmsl. dont get me wrong i'm very respectfull of my elders and all but it really winds me up that just because you have been doing a job for a thousand years dont mean your any good at it!
sorry bit of a tanjent i know but i just wanted to exsplane why i made such a bold comment b4, oh and as for the yummy mummys bit, lol. i wont go in to that because i will be acused of being big headed :)
dcs08
i am ex inf too. been w/c since i was a nipper got into wfp because i thought i could add to the types of houses i cleaned, i still clean trad and love it but wfp is far more profitable in most cases, i also started with a trolley then dismantelled it and converted to a van mount. anyway wahatever you do good luck
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cheers doode. i'm gonna wait to find out how much the tax man wants off me for my 1st year then with the left over money re invest.
i'd only end up falling of a motor bike any way. lol
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Macmac.
Quit the flaming, making personal attacks on other forum members is frowned on, on the level that Dave works he is one of the more successful window cleaners on here and his posts are almost always positive and informative.
No replies have been removed, but any more arguing and they will be.
Ian
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;D yes I agree and dave your still a baby at 40 years ;D and I know you was not trying to brain wash me with wfp ;D :-*
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Terry, why dont you try and become the fastest wfp cleaner in the world too!!!! Im not too sure how a wfp speed competition would work but it would be fun to try!!! Luke
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might get one of them water brooms ;D so I can wash the inside of the chimney breasts ;D ::) :-X
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well thanks guys for turning my topic into a slanging match and a race....
The fastest window cleaner in the west, is not really relevant here , its about guys buying wfp, and not using it.....
but thanks to everyone else for your constructive opinoins here.
Gary.
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i'm not wfp but looking in to getting a trolley to test the water so to speak. but i'm worried it wont be as fast as me. i've had days when ive been on the same street as a local wfp fella and ive been doing two houses to his one. he just smiled and said flash git. but it dose make me worry that i'm gonna spend out on something that wont make me any faster.
Wfp is not magic, you cab go faster on many properties than you can trad and vice versa trad can be quicker, my reason for the switch was the safety aspect foremost then it was the extra windows I could clean that you simply can't with trad (unless you a mad trad cleaner).
I did a house yesterday 2 trad guys nice blokes which I said Hi to, I cleaned most of the house before they had both finished the first and mine had a con on the back.
Wfp is a tool as is the blade you will work out which is quicker on each property it does take time to get used to and this IMHO is why many go back to trad as they dont learn enough before giving up.
I would not go back trad only because ladders are dangerous (I know some say they are not but they are IMO)1 fall can end your business and in a bad case your life, that risk alone is the reason I changed.
Ian
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Gazza
Your welcome !! ;D
Your not the first and you wont be the last to have a post highjacked and argued on, its happened to me hundreds of times,
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;D R bless :'( so we have the water fed pole gang o my god they have gone above themselfs ::) new it would not take long ;D
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if a ban came in saying no more wfp, they would all panick and soon get the ladders back out.trad work made a good living for them once
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This topic is turning into a book?
Here is my view from a novice, same time starting as Gazzasp8 in the line of work.
I never did much traditional work, but was pleased with my work when i did.
Reading this site learned me all about water fed before i had time to learn trad.
Recently i brought a round from a guy who was all traditional, So my first time doing this new round, i cleaned them trad, well this is when i thought i had to clean one way all the other.
The next time doing my new round, i thought sod it and got out the wfp, To my surprise out of the 300 customers he sold me only a handful i had to explain what this system was all about.
Six of them cancelled but i have made about 14 new ones.
The rest of the customers do seem to care as long as their sill are done, In fact i believe customers care more about their sills than the windows.
Thank my quick action to make this step of sod it, because i would have been like the person gazzaspa is going on about.
Through water fed pole i now have enough work for three people and been in the career for 2 years
Dave
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Also thanks to total clean for that great van he sold me...
Its still going strong.
I brough a vivaro but now selling it as i prefer my old Renault master.
Sorry to go off the topic
dave