Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on April 04, 2008, 05:51:11 pm
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I think the time is right for me to get an RO system.
We use 2000 litres a day approx, my tds is about 80.
What set up would you reccommend and what price ?
After spending about £1000 on resin in the last 12 months I think it is now worth getting properly equipped.
I understand i need a carbon pre filter, and a sediment filter ? and a decent RO, 40-40 maybe
What are my options ?
Suppliers are quite welcome to contact me
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You got it spot on with the set up Dave.
FYI.. it's sediment filter 1st then a carbon filter then the 40 inch RO.
A couple of things to consider for you
1: Waste water (Are you on a meter?)
2: Water pressure. If it's low you will need a good booster pump. It's worth finding out what your pressure is.
Ohh and if you need 2000 ltrs a day you want to be getting 3 x 1000 ltr IBC's linked together to give you a bit of slack.
You will also want a pretty decent transfer pump as well.
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Bright thanks, I have got 4 ibc ordered.
Not on a meter so no waste, water pressure is ok but low volume, corroded iron pipes i think.
Would i have to consider a different set up considering wether i need a booster or not ? I could try without the booster first
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Your going to be wasting a lot of water.
Can I sugest you get another ibc tank and connect it to the mains via a ballcock. Then have your waste water running into it and a booster pump to feed your RO. The volume of pure water will then be replaced with tap water and so dilute the waste water. Then once a week switch off the mains feed so the waste tank runs down. That way you will only waste 100 or 200L in a week rather than many 1000's
Regards
Mr H
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MR H
So that would be recycling the waste water, ie feeding it back through the the RO mixed with fresh tap water ?
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I can see some logic in this but you best get some in-line tds meters too as this is going to take some management.
The following figs are guess work and dependant on which system.
Initially 80 ppm in
Product water 5 ppm
Waste 140 ppm
So now we mix 80 ppm tap water with 140 ppm waste which will give 110 ppm if mixed 50/50
110 ppm is still easy work for an RO system
At this point I wouldn't consider using the waste again because although youwill get 5 ppm product the waste from this will now probably be in the 180 ppm area.
Yes you could use this new waste again but you'll need a warehouse full of tanks all with various water qualities at that rate.
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I am really looking for an easy life so will keep things simple., maybe use the waste to water the garden
Di only is simple, but i enviseage spending £1500 next year on resin if i carry on.
Neil what system do you use ?
Dave
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Producing as much water as 2000ltrs a day i would go for the industrial system that has built in auto flush and softening capabilities,just turn it on and no need to worry about if it needs flushing etc.It will clean the membrane-membranes as and when they need it.
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NWH
Sounds good, well worth considering.
Would i need a softener with a low input tds ?
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Probobly not but they do come with them in the ones i`ve seen as there for producing large quantities of pure water that`s hard ie above your 80ppm,i would get twin membranes and a expensive top of the range booster pump and by that i mean 4-£500 worth,you`ll fill both tanks in a morning.
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Neil what system do you use ?
Ro Man 300 gpd system which on it's own wouldn't produce the amounts you need.
You could plumb several of these in to produce enough if need be. But I think you'll need a dedicated system for your amounts, although I think Trevor Knight runs a few Ro Man systems.
Currently tap water is 270 ppm in summer goes to 350
Product water 5ppm which we then DI into the tank.
Product to waste is 1:1
In the winter the waste goes down the drain, in the summer it waters the garden.
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dave
gaps water
300l an hour
jerry
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If you dont mind me asking while were on the subject of RO's
Can you use a RO-MAN booster pump with a Merlin system?
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dave - your only after saying on the other thread that di only is the way for me!
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Alan
Sorry dont understand ?
I said di out of the van for me !!
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sorry - my mistake.
gapswater, twin 4040, stainless steel housings, booster pump - 12V solenoid and level switch - takes minutes to wire up solenoid, all very simple - twin 4040 with booster pump will make up to 5000gpd
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alan
Why Stainless is there an adantage ?
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from a production point of view - then no, however they look much nicer (quite flash actually), they won't crack should your ro freeze (I know you'll take steps to prevent this but if it did at least your housings are ok), and as you have staff should someone or something knock the housing it won't break - considering the difference is only twenty or thirty quid a housing its a no brainer.
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I have a boosted 4040 from gardiners that would easily suit you David especially with your tds that low, mines 245 and I still fill my 650l in under 2 hours, I think I'm right in saying they even have a better one in stock now.
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I have a boosted 4040 from gardiners that would easily suit you David especially with your tds that low, mines 245 and I still fill my 650l in under 2 hours, I think I'm right in saying they even have a better one in stock now.
It's not on the website?
I think for 4040's you can't go wrong with Gaps water, good prices, good service, everything. :)
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/
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how many vans are you filling to be using 2000 litres a day dave?
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nat
2 vans with 650 l tanks , filled at night, then a top up during the day.
I know i could save water , but in my area the best solution is to throw loads of water at the windows, also you get to work faster with a high flow rate.
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that is a hell of a lot of water. that amount of water gives us 20 hours constant work. is it cause of the sea air you need to use so much?
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If you are on metered supply worth being aware of how much waste water. Have to produce waste to keep membranes clean.
Unless you have very high water pressure definitely worth having a booster pump to increase productivity and purity of water. Also worth having a solenoid switch as part of the system to shut off pump automatically when full.
I got my static system from Aquafactors (Tuckerpole). Works well but there are cheaper options. Keep posted on what you go for. Good luck.
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Nat
Yes it is a lot to do with the saltiness, it is perticularly bad this year, seams every month the windows are salted up.
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What's the water quality on the output side in ppm of the 4040
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nat
2 vans with 650 l tanks , filled at night, then a top up during the day.
I know i could save water , but in my area the best solution is to throw loads of water at the windows, also you get to work faster with a high flow rate.
How many peolpe work from each van, 1 or 2?
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2 to a van sometimes 1.
I am back to just 2 of us at the moment, had to sack the staff so working like a dog at the moment.
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Why did you sack em.
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Didnt give a damn about the quality of the work when my back was turned.
The quality was slacking, tried telling them but it went in one ear and out the other.
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Didnt give a damn about the quality of the work when my back was turned.
The quality was slacking, tried telling them but it went in one ear and out the other.
did you pay bonuses or a flat hourly rate?
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nat
hourly rate,
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i pay an hourly rate and then can increase thier wages by 50% on performance, attendance and standard of work, i would never pay just a flat rate again as i found the workers really don't give a toss, they do well by the company they get rewarded.
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nat
There has always been more money on the table and the staff knew it, trouble is they werent motivated by money, just finishing and getting home early.
The young en was only interested in getting £100 in his pocket so he could get hammered 3- 4 times a week , so kept turning up with an hangover.
The old en didnt care about money as he had load of kids and got loads of family credit so didnt want the hours as it reduced his benefits, I reckon he was trying to get himself sacked for the last few months and i didnt much notice.
It is now time for me to consolodate and start again, it is a worrying time as i have loads of work and have put bids in for some big contracts, part of me is hoping i dont get them.
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nat
There has always been more money on the table and the staff knew it, trouble is they werent motivated by money, just finishing and getting home early.
The young en was only interested in getting £100 in his pocket so he could get hammered 3- 4 times a week , so kept turning up with an hangover.
The old en didnt care about money as he had load of kids and got loads of family credit so didnt want the hours as it reduced his benefits, I reckon he was trying to get himself sacked for the last few months and i didnt much notice.
It is now time for me to consolodate and start again, it is a worrying time as i have loads of work and have put bids in for some big contracts, part of me is hoping i dont get them.
i have found it tottally different to that, but hey if it ain't worked for you then fair enough
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nat
How many do you employ.
Where do you get your staff from ?
I really could do with some employment advice, start to finish. I have made a lot of mistakes , the biggest one not setting enough ground rules
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nat
How many do you employ.
Where do you get your staff from ?
I really could do with some employment advice, start to finish. I have made a lot of mistakes , the biggest one not setting enough ground rules
whats your email address dave?
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dmwc@talktalk.net
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cheers dave i'll mail you tomorrow ;)
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nat
How many do you employ.
Where do you get your staff from ?
I really could do with some employment advice, start to finish. I have made a lot of mistakes , the biggest one not setting enough ground rules
Same trouble i had i didn`t set enough ground rules from the start,after a while it can get harder to all of a sudden start introducing rules and regs,should try and get things sorted from the off that way you have something to throw at them if it starts getting out of hand.
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I reckon we've been really lucky with the guys we have, they've been with us for over 3yrs now - never late, never sick (the very odd time but aren't we all), work quality pretty good, they both look after themselves too.
we pay a flat rate but they get bonuses quite often, all tips go straight to them and they get treated to a pub lunch every 4 weeks.
flat rate is £65 a day.
Before anyone says that too low, its £325 a week, not bad for no hassle.
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Wondering how much effiecency you lose with 2 men working from van as it usually seems a more efficient use of time to have 1 per van, but that way you would need more vans for your staff.
If 1 per van how much does each van use in a day?
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Guys, as interesting as the thread is, it has morphed into a different topic now.
Please can you stay on topic or start a new one to follow what it has mutated into.
It would I think be a good topic.
Ian
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Ian
Cant you split it
dd
I will sacrifice some effiecency for quality of work, i thought 2 people would check on each other and keep moral up, I know what its like working by yourself, it can get quite depressing at times.
Dave