Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: John Gregory on March 28, 2008, 07:50:07 am
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how long do you lads reckon it wound take to clean 12000 square foot in a open plan office. Customer wants it doing weekends only , never done anything this big before and I don't no what to quote . Will be using truckmount and wand
Thanks John
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(off top of my head)
1 man;
300ft an hour
3000/10hrs
12000/40hrs.
just wanding not allowing for stopping, vaccing or pre-spraying
I'd allow 2 long weekends for a 2 man team
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(off top of my head)
1 man;
300ft an hour
3000/10hrs
12000/40hrs.
just wanding not allowing for stopping, vaccing or pre-spraying
I'd allow 2 long weekends for a 2 man team
or you could pass the job to a t.mer with am rx20 sit back do northing and take a cut ??
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John
You haven't said exactly what the carpet is. Would a LM system be an option?
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Mike
the carpet is polyprop low profile LM would be ideal but I dont have one nor have I got the funds to go and buy one at this moment in time
John
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I'd be tempted to buy one on a credit card and pay it off with your windfall.
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Mike
I might just do that, How long would this sort of job take using a dry fusion system and how much would it cost in chems etc
Thanks John
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do you have to move desks etc
ive just done a large office 9500 sq foot didnt have to move anything prespray aggitate extract no breaks done over 2 nights took me 15 hours
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John
As Susan as suggested might be an idea to get someone witha DF or similar to do the job with you and from there on in you know what's what. If you buy one make sure you've def got the job first. ;)
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Weve done an office block on two floors ,approx 1500sq m with dry fusion a number of times.We have 3 teams going of 2 min . takes around 10 hrs give or take. Someone has got to take dirty pads to laundrette mid way through or you run out of pads. With prespray and activator in wringer we would do it with under 25ltrs ie £110.
You need to work price out two ways to see if they match - work your costs for doing tho job and profit you want for the time you estimate it taking , then think of a figure per sq m , these should match up near enough to show your on the right lines. A job this size with LM can work out as low as £ 1.20 sq m and still be a good earner.
Mike
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im with Mike on the time scale, 2 weekends. As for price you could charge it 1 of 4 ways. what would you have to charge to make a good profit & to cover expenses;
a, per sqm
b, per hour
c, per day
d, per job
I have just worked a price out in 2 ways and come up with pretty much same price for both (sqm & hourly) so i would charge between £4500 - £5000.
Richie
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Richie are my maths right that works out at 40p a sq f
John
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i would think my price would be closer to £3000
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John,
I quote at £2.50sqm however on a job that large i would quote as low as £1.20 minimum giving you an overall price of £4388.40.
I priced a job a few weeks ago at £1.35sqm that was 2600sqm and got the job even though they had 3 other quotes 1 been more expensive the other 2 cheaper. In fact 1 quote was over £600 cheaper. When i met up with the client i took him around the worst areas giving him my honest opinion of expected results. Then we went down to the van which was fitted with the TM. I opened the side door and he had the WOW factor. I have always shown the client the van & TM whenever possible as this is halfway to getting the job. We went back inside had a coffee and discussed the quote. He was happy to accept my quote as i had shown him impressive van with impressive TM, i had informed him that i would normally charge £2.50sqm but on large jobs go to £1.65sqm and added that because the area he wanted cleaning was VAST i would go as low as £1.35. Job was booked in there & then. Providing the job is done to the highest standards (which it will be) the client wants me to put together a maintenance programme for him (which im 100% sure he will go for). There will be a 3 man team on site using the TM & LM
My secret is;
Make sure your van & equipment are VERY CLEAN & TIDY.
Be sure to be honest on areas of concern.
Most of all, BE CONFIDENT.
Richie.
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John
I'm sure someone will lend you what you need I can think of someone off the top of mny head but you can ring me for that idea. Alternatively, are there not any friendly suppliers near you that will hire you something?
I agree with Mike. Go nearer to £3000 as you may lose job on price and at 4 days thats £750 a day but it won't take you anywhere near that using non HWE system. . Good luck and call me if you want. 07816 276290
Pete
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Is it my maths but isnt 12000sq ft around 1114 sq m , if so I dont think youll get it for £3000 and it wont take 2 weekends.
Mike
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PLEASR EXCUSE MY MATHS.......I GOT MY CALCULATIONS WRONG
I would quote 1115sqm @ £2.10sqm = £2341.50. This would be done with 2 men taking no more than 1 1/2 days.
Richie.
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18 months ago i did 16000 sq. ft on my own (not moving desks so nearer 12000 sq.ft.). With a Ninja attached to a Extracta Scrubba in 12 hours and charged £700.00. Rainbow had quoted £750.00 to bonnet.
Was knackered afterwards with corns and blisters on my hands. I was 27 at the time and was still running marathans at the time.
Doing again end of april this time charging £895.00 and running two portys with two helpers getting £100.00 cash each. There is a pub across the road with football showing on a Saturday. Older, wiser, fatter.... ;D
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Right chaps just got back from quote , Job can not be done with Truckmount coz of security reason's , The office is in use 24/7 so LM it is , I'm going back Tuesday with written quote and risk assessment . I think the job is mine so is £1.20 sq m +( the cost of some barrier mats to put down on some marble floor while I,m working) . a competitive price
All I've got to do now is buy a LM system and learn how to use it
Thanks John
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Hi John
Try ringing one of your local CC's with a low moisture system.
I would certainly hire you my Tex for £100 but it's a bit far to go ;D
This way you can see whether you like LM a nd try before you buy.
Cheers
Doug
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That's only 1300 sq yds, with a TM and a wand you'll do it easy in one weekend, assuming that one weekend is Saturday & Sunday, price £1600.
There is a valid argument that says that a job of that size is worth more than that and it probably is but IMO £3k or anything near is just too much and risks you losing the job. £800 a day is good enough for anyone and at that price you'll beat the guys with offering to do the job with a portable because for them to do it properly it will take yonks.
You should be able to clean 100 sq yds per hour, so thirteen working hours, easy!
Simon
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Mmm, I've got far too much work off other people using LM systems in situations like this for me to even think about using it myself. Just my opinion though.
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At the speed you'll be working thats a blinder John. You'll get that done in a day
Well Done mate. Nice to see some good news for those finding it difficult to get the work. Gotta be my turn next.
Pete
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Hi Simon,
Your price response has surprised me especially after the topic regarding a quote for the job in Scotland.
I do alot of the time think that people can be scared of quoting for what can be deemed by many (myself & you included Simon) a decent / fair price.
Richie
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Richie,
I agree with you !
I think its to low to quote, by the time you have taken wages for your 2nd person, fuel van & T.M Insurance and most of all depreciation on your van, truckmount and RX20
Maybe thats where a twin wand / RX set up comes in but i know from experience it would take me longer that 13 hours, but i only run a basic machine and use a wand ??
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This is where an RX20 comes into its own, £800 a day (providing it ca be done in 2 days) is good money but over the computer it's easy but when you stand looking at the carpet then the sums may alter.
I personally don't price commercial by a unit price providing it is big enough, yes I need to know the area sizes to roughly know how much I can do in an hour/day then I'll decide on what I want to charge based on that.
If you were to charge a flat rate per metre on all jobs regardless then you would get all of the grotty ones and lose the good ones.
Shaun
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john i dont know were you are based,
but you are quite welcome to borrow my cimex
you will do easily in a weekend
geoff
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Wow what a decent Guy Geoff you dont get that very often these days !!
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Nice one Geoff.
Would you recommend an encap approach?
Simon,
Do you find with your T/M rx20 combo that you don't have any wicking issues on low pro?
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I wouldnt dream of using the TM and rx20 on a low profile carpet. From experience it will take a good while to dry in an office situation and will need two men for hose management. Also very difficult due to health and safety running hoses in a maned office. And very rarely will clean 100sqyards an hour esp around desks, dealing with gum, coffee stains, moving stuff etc.
Texatherm is the way to go and 60sqyards and hour is easy while pacing yourself.
Dont forget you need to eat.
Mark
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with out question, i would go with encap , and even bettr if you can get their inhouse cleaners to post vac :)
as for lending out the cimex,
many a time c/c have helped me out
wont name names, dont want to embarass the 3rd best looking
geoff
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I quote about 1 job every 1 - 3 months that are 1000sqm & over at a rate of between £1.60 - £2.50 and get the work booked. I can see why people get worried at quoting that high as ive been there done that.
Regardless of what system used in offices (TM, Porty or LM) i ensure turbo driers and or paddle fans are taken on the job and get turned on as soon as an area has been cleaned.
Richie.
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We would twin a job like this with two RX20's and have it done in the day, no problem and for £1600 it's good money for a days work.
Simon
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mark, i have done large area office cleaning without a problem at all with the rx20, personally i don't know what this thing about whicking is, i have done some real mingers and they have all been fine. yes, you would best be working as a 2 man team, one pre-spraying and moving, but we still clean about 100 sq mtrs an hour and it's a clean down to the bottom of the fibres not just the surface and i am still impressed with the way the rx pulls up the fibres under the desks/chairs where the pile is really flattend down. i HAVE to use a pad system for one large job i do in the middle of london and i hate it, it's quick but no way is it as clean as hwe
colin
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Colin,
You're spot on there. This wicking thing is something that seems to have been plucked from thin air or it happened to someone once and Chinese Whispers has taken over to create the myth.
Anyway, like you I like the deep down clean you get with RX20 and just can't convince myself that any padding system will do as thorough a job, but that is just my opinion.
Simon
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Simon
Maybe it's becuase you have some serious kit, but I can assure you it's real.
Only last week had a spill stain on low pro, had to HWE, loads of dry passes then bonnet and air mover. Totally gone then when dry guess what back again.
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Am inclined to agree with CBT & Simon above. Only having used a RX20 for the last 6 months, it does give a superb finished clean to office carpets. Also use a pad system (or muck spreading as I was informed some call it) when HWE is not practical, which can also give a good finished 'appearance' but not so sure how clean it really is
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What wins the argument for me every time is when you empty your recovery tank and out pours 100 gallons of gunge and grit that just could not possibly be picked up by a padding system of any description. Yes, low moisture systems work on the appearance front, but in reality only some of the dirt has been removed into the pad, so it follows that the rest has merely been re-arranged and shoved to the bottom of the pile where only an RX can reach it.
Simon
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Not in every case, as I do believe wicking can occur on low profile carpet, when soiled out, but I also think that many stains and heavily soiled areas appear to be clean when they are wetted and worked upon, but arent as clean as they appear. Then when they dry out, the soil and/or stain is back. It always amazes me just how much soil these low profiles can hold.
Dave
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LM cleaning stops wicking because of it's dryness why not use turbo driers when HWE low profile to reduce the problem?
Shaun
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Are we therefore saying that wicking occurs due to the slow drying of the fibres, from the bottom of the pile up, bringing the residue dirt up with it?
Accelerated drying overcomes this by leaving the residual soil at the bottom of the pile?
LM also leaves residual crap at the bottom,but due to virtually no drying, no soil will rise to the top?
Would have thus thought that the only real way of cleaning these carpets is with HWE using a good prespray & aggitation to loosen all soil & then extract with a high flush & the kind of vacuum presumably only available on a larger truckmount unit. Can see this as the only way to suck out this soil which either causes wicking or is left at the bottom of the pile with LM
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Francis,
Good point.
I think far too much has been made of this wicking problem because I have never seen it happen in over thirty years but then I use RX20 or at the very least a wand and a Truck Mount. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen because clearly it does, but I think people sometimes use it as an excuse to go to an LM system because it's quicker and less involved.
Why not HWSE and then run a dry bonnet mop over the area to remove any residual moisture?
Simon
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I think may be we are fooling ourselves if we think we are removing all the dirt in a carpet, regardless of which cleaning system is used. In theory most of the soil in a carpet consists of dry soil, which is removed by thorough vacuuming, the rest is made up of sticky soils which is removed by cleaning.
If you look at how rugs are cleaned, vacuuming only one side is not enough to remove all the dry soil which is why a rug badger or vacuuming both sides is needed. This cannot be achieved with a fitted carpet.
The problem with commercial carpets is if they have not been maintained properly then they need to be emptied and flushed out properly before you can start to use a low moisture system for maintaining them.
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Derek,
That's spot on.
I've just done a quote in an office block 555 sq yds. The company who used to do that job used LM and the guy said that this time he wanted it done properly. I asked him what he meant by that and he said that it always looked ok when the job was done but after a few days the appearance slid back towards looking dirty and the stains started coming back.
Looking at the job none of the above is surprising because the carpet is filthy and needs a thorough clean with an RX and Truck Mount before you could even consider a LM maintenance system to keep it looking good until the next major clean.
That is where an LM system fits into a maintenance programme because IMO that is what it is, a maintenance system.
Simon
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You are spot on there Simon. LM should be part of a maintenace programe. Unfortunatley many businesses do not under stand this and often go with companies offering LM as it usually cheaper (usually their existing cleaning contractors). It is part of our job to educate them and try and get them to agree to the benifits of a maintenace programme. It is just a very hard/time consuming task to try and chase this type of work.
Not sure what support/education/advertising is given by the NCCA and the various facilities management associations there are to potential customers. Unfortunately we are a soap dodging nation compared to the likes of americans.
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As luck would have it i've got a large kitchen carpet to clean which is Flotex. Last time I did the job I experimented a bit and found HWSE works well, but not great, but then neither did just padding it. In the end I used HWSE to flush the dirt out of the carpet and then a dry pad to remove the excess moisture, result? Superb and hence my return visit in the morning.
Simon