Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Feen on March 25, 2008, 09:08:10 pm
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First started wfp around last August. I have most of my work as that. Now I find myself doing more trad for a couple of reasons. Firstly, when I went wfp I thought with a bit of hard work and perseverence I could do all my work that way. Here's my exprience . Apart from a few, I still do all ups wfp. In the modern estates, I do all the downs wfp. A lot of the older houses, with paint and sash windows. I wfp up and trad down. Conservatories I either trad or clean wfp and then squeegee rather than rinse. I find this quicker and gives a better finish aesthetically, esp if the custie is in. It's a learning curve, and I feel I'm doing it. There is more than one way to clean windows. When I clean now I have to keep reminding myself that I'm here to clean the windows, not wfp them or trad them. Clean them. Clean them. However I do it.
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I got caught in the trap of squirting everything with pure water and thinking that was the only way but i had to remind myself that i was being paid to clean the windows so now if it is needed i will trad or i will squeegee off window done wfp if needed as not all windows are the same
Dean
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You're right mate, you're there to clean windows, that's what you get paid for. I'm the same, as you know 'cos we work similar properties. There are many houses in this area that just arn't suitable for wfp, as you've probably found out- Bad frames, very fragile glass, leaking astragals etc. I couldn't maintain a full round if i was 100% wfp & as i said before, i charge very well for my ladder work so i'm no worse off. Earn a good living using whichever method suites ;)
You've got mail btw.
Tony
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fair play to you for using trad still.
I only did 2 years before i went wfp and have used the pole ever since. I do the occassional inside trad and that's all.
I've got loads to learn and techniques to master using that method and i wish i had the hunger to use it on some jobs. But i take the lazier way nowadays and pole everything while neglecting learning trad skills better.
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I like to trad the "eyeball" windows to make sure they are perfect. The trouble with WFP is you can't be sure you have got everything off.
I don't see any conflict in mixing trad and WFP. Like you say, you are there to clean the windows, how you do it doesn't make a jot of difference.
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I have to admit I enjoy using my squeegee, and like you Vince I tend to use it on ' eyeball' windows, that are bordeline in terms of whether WFP will come up good.
But also now that I have used WFP for 6 months, I now know which windows don't like WFP - and some of these are UPVC too :-\
( There's two UPVC windows I know of, that always streak at the same spot - even after 6 months of WFP. I think there's a fault in the seal, and a big dirt pocket is in there)
So rather than double wash/rinse ect - I find it just as quick to run my Squeegee round ( even more fun with my Wagtail).
For me I think I have the balance just right, for my round :)
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hi
I tend to wfp all upstairs and trad the rest. I do use the pole down stairs on dirty units to get the frames clean, then trad them . most customers are happy with this approach.
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Isn't that a real pain though? Having to carry your bucket around, filling it, get those tools ready and on top of that your wfp?
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As soon as i go my wfp gear, i have never got those big ladders off the roof rack since
i do tops and bottoms as i dont see the point of swapping and changing after spending so much money,
Having said that i can undestand the guys who still love to trad,
its an art and enjoyable.
but its not for me now, no complaints as yet either.
Gary.
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Isn't that a real pain though? Having to carry your bucket around, filling it, get those tools ready and on top of that your wfp?
Not really - I always keep a filled bucket and tools in the van.
When you're trying to 'sell' WFP to domestic customers, it is much easier if you carry on 'trad'ing any difficult ground floor windows.
If the customer is in, I always 'blade' the water off the glass of the living room or the kitchen (sometimes both) - it only takes seconds, and with pure water it never leaves any lines/smears.
I always dry off the front door as well (and remove any water from the step)
They all 'love' me!
Mike
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Ive been doin this for ages now and it's good to see a realistic thread about cleaning windows, it's a breath of fresh air to this forum.
Well done.
Regards
Adam ;D ;D ;D
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Isn't that a real pain though? Having to carry your bucket around, filling it, get those tools ready and on top of that your wfp?
Not really - I always keep a filled bucket and tools in the van.
When you're trying to 'sell' WFP to domestic customers, it is much easier if you carry on 'trad'ing any difficult ground floor windows.
If the customer is in, I always 'blade' the water off the glass of the living room or the kitchen (sometimes both) - it only takes seconds, and with pure water it never leaves any lines/smears.
I always dry off the front door as well (and remove any water from the step)
They all 'love' me!
Mike
Spot on, same here.
Leaving the whole house dripping wet is asking for trouble, as I've found out on many many occasions.
I trad all upstairs and some downstairs.
If the customer is sat in a particular room I'll usually squeegee of the pure water for the sake of tidyness.
Only takes seconds, and keeps them happy.
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i am really the opposite as im using the pole for tops and bottoms more and more i only really use the tools now for the front and back doors
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I prefer Traditional.
But im WFP for 95% of my round.
We seem to be doing more downstairs Traditional each week and occasionally i even get a ladder off and do upstairs traditional.
To be honest i wish i never changed over but now i got the gear i use it.
Paul
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I prefer Traditional.
But im WFP for 95% of my round.
We seem to be doing more downstairs Traditional each week and occasionally i even get a ladder off and do upstairs traditional.
To be honest i wish i never changed over but now i got the gear i use it.
Paul
Why do you wish you hadnt changed ?
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I just prefer Traditional window cleaning and a lot less hassle and down time.
Never used to have downtime traditional as my squeegies never used to break down.
My water was warm i didn't need a large van and i have worked it out that im no better off.
I may have earn't more money but i have spent heck off a lot more.
And i find traditional window cleaning more satisfiying.
Paul
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Some interesting thoughts and preferences. I agree with those that say they find trad more pleasing. However, I had to use a big ladder last week. It was windy and it reminded me why I prefer wfp to ladders ;) Both my tennis elbows remind why they like trad better ;D I'll keep cleaning with both methods.
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I have a large-ish detached house that I do all with the pole... apart from a french door on a Juliette balcony which I go through the house and do trad.
Last month the customer let me in to do the window on the balcony and watched from inside as I did it....
When I came back in she said "wow, you make that look so effortless!"...... its nice to keep my hand in trad, and even nicer when a customer recognises the skill involved ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I like to trad the "eyeball" windows to make sure they are perfect.
i would like to have used trad on some windows myself, but we are carrot crunchers around here and i received so much suspicion towards the pole that the only way i could go wfp was to present it as a take it or leave it situation.
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Take them some carrots and trad whilst they're crunching or munching ;D
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Roger
I cant believe you sqeegee the pure water off just because the customer is in that room.
Surely that is asking for trouble?
Bob
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Roger
I cant believe you sqeegee the pure water off just because the customer is in that room.
Surely that is asking for trouble?
Bob
Of course it's not. ???
Quite the opposite.
I don't get people moaning about wet windows then.
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Not knocking you buddy but.........dont they then ask you to sqeegee all the windows you clean with the pole if you do one?
Each to there own but after some of your posts where you seem so pi**ed off with your customers being anti WFP, I think yer asking for trouble :-\
Like I say, I aint knocking you and im not anti Squeaky. Just my thoughts from one window cleaner to another who seems to always be cheesed off.
Bob
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Not knocking you buddy but.........dont they then ask you to sqeegee all the windows you clean with the pole if you do one?
No, because they're not trying to see out of all the windows at once.
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Tut tut roger ::)
Just the other day you were telling me about an old fella who you are convinced is going to cancel on you because you use WFP.
On this old fella you said you blade of some windows and leave others.
The old guy was gesticulating to you to dry off the one pane, you refused of course (sensible) but the panes either side and below you had bladed off....what on earth was he supposed to think when you left a single pane untouched by the squeegee?? And then refused to dry it off??
And you also told me that these window come up absolutely mint with WFP, why on earth then go over some panes if you know full well they will come out perfect?
I know you said that this guy just doesn't like the windows being left wet, but when I was trying to tell you a few ways you could convince him that WFP is best you kept talking over me, saying he just won't listen...I've had customers like this and I've converted them.
I look at a window I've had to do trad and seen all the bits that would have got washed and flushed with pure water, I see a window done WFP as done very thoroughly.
You on the other hand see is as messy with water all over the place, all over the walls, all over the path.
And have so little belief in the method that you are so conscious of the fact that you will blade of some panes - if the customer is in the room - and leave others.
It really isn't that surprising that you have so many cancellations dude.
For me there has to be a bloody good reason I get out the trad tools (and I do so every single day by the way), but bungalow or house, everything will be WFP'd and I don't go blading of windows or drying doors either, and if I've had problems...well...I'm darned if I can actually think of any ::)
Ian
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If I'd left the front windows wet from day one, he would have cancelled a year ago Ian. ::)
So would many others, which I've managed to save.
I've got total belief in the system, I do a fine job.
I can't make people like wet spotty windows though.
End of story.
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If I'd left the front windows wet from day one, he would have cancelled a year ago Ian. ::)
So would many others, which I've managed to save.
I've got total belief in the system, I do a fine job.
I can't make people like wet spotty windows though.
End of story.
Customer dictating method = tail wagging dog.
It's all down to confidence in our skills - it takes skill to use wfp properly just as it does to use trad properly. When I am confident in my skill then it is easier to convince the customer.
There are poor/slapdash wfp operators just as there are poor slapdash trad cleaners.
That having been said - I occasionally blade an entrance way and wipe a door so it doesn't drip when they open it to pay me and I generally wipe the lower sills where grit is coming out of the join.
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When working with a squeegee sometimes i need to detail the edges so use a scrim sometimes i dont need to
Likewise when using wfp sometimes the windows come up perfect with pure water sometimes on problem windows i need to squeegee some or all the glass afterwards
They are all tools and methods to get the window cleaned which is what i am paid to do its not the customer dictating to me how the window should be cleaned its me doing what is needed to get the window clean i am confident in all my methods of cleaning and never get complaints about quality of clean
Dean
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If I'd left the front windows wet from day one, he would have cancelled a year ago Ian. ::)
So would many others, which I've managed to save.
I've got total belief in the system, I do a fine job.
I can't make people like wet spotty windows though.
End of story.
Customer dictating method = tail wagging dog.
It's all down to confidence in our skills - it takes skill to use wfp properly just as it does to use trad properly. When I am confident in my skill then it is easier to convince the customer.
This is what I was trying to explain to Ian, but he couldn't grasp it either.
It's nothing to do with confidence, I'm poo hot at it and the customer knows that too.
He knows they dry perfectly, I've come back and checked and he's been very pleased, but he doesn't like not being able to see out of his window in the morning and thinks it doesn't look finished.
To go over it again for those in special needs...some customers are happy with the results and trust it, but don't like dripping windows.
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Rog, you have to SELL the system, there is no one else in our neck of the woods that have come remotely close to losing the amount of customers that you have.
Why do you think that is?
It isn't as if you do bad work, so that isn't the reason.
You have stated that all my domestic stuff is new work, so the only method they've seen is WFP from me...a good point, but Tosh, Tomo, John, Sean and others have all had to convert existing customers and they haven't had anything like your level of problems.
It is unique to yourself, if you sell the system properly they should be eating out of your hands.
And you have said many times on the forum how you think that leaving windows dripping wet looks messy and unprofessional.
Your customers will pick up on these things from you.
But on that one window which you bladed of some of the panes and then left one untouched....
What would you think if you were in his position?
The sun is out now...I should be out working!
Sigh....don't want to now though :-\
Ian
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You have stated that all my domestic stuff is new work, so the only method they've seen is WFP from me...a good point, but Tosh, Tomo, John, Sean and others have all had to convert existing customers and they haven't had anything like your level of problems.
Who the hell is Sean? ???
You don't need to make up new people. ;D
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Sean, short hair, glasses, strong Welsh accent, works with his wife (and a lot more expensive than anyone else too! Big black van, and does quite a bit of work around Chepstow.
And of course I mustn't forget Roy Harding too, he has been going for as long as I have and had to convert customers he has had for over 20 years!
Ian