Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Davo on March 23, 2008, 09:11:22 am
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Do you think that years of experience in this business limits you to the prices that you charge for your services?
Because you know what other cleaners in your area charge, because you have been fairly low priced for many years, just because thats the way it worked ie £3.00 a semi every 2 weeks( for arguments sake----calm down)
To now ask £10-£15 for the same work every 4-6 weeks is a big jump. If anything with the pole its got easier , not harder, how can you justify those prices to yourself never mind the customer?
For new cleaners they dont have these limitations, theyve never worked up a ladder in all weathers for relatively little money to them pricing at £10-£15 is the norm. OK they compete against whoever they compete against in an area( most trad guys working the old way) but they have the van the pole its still cleaning windows but they dont see the competition in the same light as other trad guys do. If anything pricing against the trad guys gives them the incentive and justification to charge better money.
Or am i talking nonsense?
Mark
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For me their is an element of truth in that statement as i had got stuck in a rut or in the comfort zone and thinking that if i needed more money i just got more work instead of increasing prices so that i ended up with a round full or nearly full of under priced work
Over the past year or so i have started to increase these prices but they are still lower than i would charge for new jobs i need to keep increasing these prices over the years instead of in one fell swoop which would probably be better but i dont want to risk loosing this work just yet anyway
Dean
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Mark, you always talk nonsense. As a marketing guru don't you envisage an upper limit? What's the limit a housholder will pay to have some dirt removed from their glass before they tell you to sling your hook?
The man with the van has to charge more anyway, he will have invested twenty times the amount in most cases to Mr Trad he will also be doing the job as his only income (unless he has add ons) and will be competing on price with the dole scroungers too.
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Mark, you always talk nonsense. As a marketing guru don't you envisage an upper limit? What's the limit a housholder will pay to have some dirt removed from their glass before they tell you to sling your hook?
Laffin, marketing guru?
The limit will vary from customer to customer.
You show me a post where i have said they will pay any price you like and ill stop posting on this forum
DJW if you want ill tell you the secret to earning £20 a clean from low dem property on council estates, you know the customer who has £3 a week left over after fAgs and booze.
Mark
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Mark, you always talk nonsense. As a marketing guru don't you envisage an upper limit? What's the limit a housholder will pay to have some dirt removed from their glass before they tell you to sling your hook?
DJW if you want ill tell you the secret to earning £20 a clean from low dem property on council estates, you know the customer who has £3 a week left over after f*gs and booze.
Mark
Off you go then.
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Mark, you always talk nonsense. As a marketing guru don't you envisage an upper limit? What's the limit a housholder will pay to have some dirt removed from their glass before they tell you to sling your hook?
DJW if you want ill tell you the secret to earning £20 a clean from low dem property on council estates, you know the customer who has £3 a week left over after f*gs and booze.
Mark
Off you go then.
For such valuable information youve got to ask nicer than that!!
Mark
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now im sorted for the next 2 weeks i will go clean some windows for £2.50 per house i should get loads of work and stop the legal cleaners from earning and charging more than me .
There's a twenty pound customer if ever i saw one!
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now im sorted for the next 2 weeks i will go clean some windows for £2.50 per house i should get loads of work and stop the legal cleaners from earning and charging more than me .
There's a twenty pound customer if ever i saw one!
lol
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A lot of low pricing is down to the "old boy sindrome" you know the sort of thing, still charging the same prices as he did ten years ago.
If I am right Davo has never cleaned a window in his life so I wonder why he is posting on here about things like this.
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A lot of low pricing is down to the "old boy sindrome" you know the sort of thing, still charging the same prices as he did ten years ago.
If I am right Davo has never cleaned a window in his life so I wonder why he is posting on here about things like this.
Vince very astute, maybe the signature at the bottom of my post gives a bit away.
I have canvassed and sold cleaning services , work which i gave to a friend, he still cleans it and i receive no income from it.
I post on here because i want to, the things i talk about i have first hand experience of.
If you find my posts irratating then dont read them, but there is a divide on this forum regarding prices that are achieved, I wondered why that was, so i posted what i think COULD be a reason for this .
Many seem to think that window cleaning somehow has its own set of rules, that dont apply to any other business. Read the " business thinking guys thread" do these successful businesses do something different to a minority of cleaners on here?
Too right they do, they know their customer, they know the value of what they do and how to achieve that value. They arent afraid to ask for good money for the service they provide, they know its worth to their customers.
Mark
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When I first started w/c trad my prices were low on most of my work. Over the years I have kept increasing the prices for those customers. Any that were very low priced were considerably increased or dropped when I had a full round.
However, with any new work I picked up when I first started with WFP, I made sure I had a decent price to start with from day one because overheads are higher and by then I had a full round so I could afford with confidence to price higher.
I'm happy picking up one in every two-three quotes I give because I have found a level of pricing that I am happy to accept work for which a customer is willing to pay and no less because I don't want to be rushed off my feet with underpriced work. I just like to replace lost work with new higher priced work.
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it, not all about charging more.... i know another wfpoler in my area who charges about 50% more than i do ...
yet his takings are less than mine per hour.... he has a higher cancelation rate .... and spends double on fuel....
it,s very hard for other wc to get their foot in on my areas....
my round is very condensed and so i can keep my prices at a reasonable affordable rate for the customer....
although i have a minimum charge of £10. if i have a house here or a house there spread out i do charge as much as i can ....... but most of my round is park up and do a cluster of houses....most of which are decent size houses...
someone was canvassing my customers at 50% less than i charge.... i didn't lose one customer...
my pricing method works for me..... :)
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it, not all about charging more.... i know another wfpoler in my area who charges about 50% more than i do ...
yet his takings are less than mine per hour.... he has a higher cancelation rate .... and spends double on fuel....
it,s very hard for other wc to get their foot in on my areas....
my round is very condensed and so i can keep my prices at a reasonable affordable rate for the customer....
although i have a minimum charge of £10. if i have a house here or a house there spread out i do charge as much as i can ....... but most of my round is park up and do a cluster of houses....most of which are decent size houses...
someone was canvassing my customers at 50% less than i charge.... i didn't lose one customer...
my pricing method works for me..... :)
If you had a choice: cluster of houses (on a lower price) or fewer, larger houses, on a higher price but they both worked out equal, (financially), when you take into account time & fuel for driving, which would you prefer to choose?
On some of my larger, less compact work I can make more money whist I'm actually WFP doing less work whereas on more compact work I could work my socks off, end the day feeling tired and still earn roughly the same.
I prefer to work less but doing larger, less compact work myself, but everybody is different.
One last point, I find it easier to increase the prices on my less compact work then I would on the compact clusters because of the pricing which reflects the work.
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i have a combination of both.....but i do find condensed work slightly quicker....i wouldn't say i was cheap....but i do aim to be reasonable enough to retain customers....
i am always building and refining my round to acheive higher earnings.
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The prices you can charge has to be in line with what your customers are prepared to pay.
I lost 4 customers last week for putting my price up from £5.00 to £5.50.
Retired customers are usually the best when it comes to paying, but the least able to pay more, the customers I lost were long term on fixed incomes.
The official inflation rate may be 3%, but every thing that I buy or pay for seems to have gone up a hell of a lot more than that. It's the same for my customers. Dai
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Thats tough Dai a 50p rise and you lose work last year i raised prices by at least £1 and lost none and so far this month again i have lost none maybe though thats down to the fact i was underpriced to begin with
Dean
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Davo
Maybe you are right whilst growing your business, but as soon as you have a full round you soon learn the error of your ways.
As for £20 for a council house, maybe you could get it, but not often and not for a regular clean. If you are talking every 6 months ? well i really wouldnt want to know. I would much prefer to have 500 quality customers on monthly than 3000 doing them 6 monthly.
With council houses i charge £10 a house on a take it or leave it attitude, if they hum and ha, i dont want them, if they want anything other than monthly i dont want them.
When we are out working i know exactly where i am going without looking at my list, i dont want to get bogged down with "Is this one this month or next" type thing, it drives you insane. Even now i am looking to sacking my every other monthlys which i let slip into my domestic rounds.
Once you get to a certain size, administration becomes a nightmare and lots of little irregular jobs will overwhelm you.
Dave
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Dai, well done that's the point i'm trying to make but can't seem to make clear. There has to be a limit at which the customer will back out. If you push your prices too high then thay can always fall back onto the cheaper cleaners that are always about, clean them themselves or just leave them. In my opinion it doesn't matter how good you are the customer will start to squirm and try to reduce the cost - maybe extend the periods between cleans or try "not today thanks.
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Davo
Maybe you are right whilst growing your business, but as soon as you have a full round you soon learn the error of your ways.
As for £20 for a council house, maybe you could get it, but not often and not for a regular clean. If you are talking every 6 months ? well i really wouldnt want to know. I would much prefer to have 500 quality customers on monthly than 3000 doing them 6 monthly.
With council houses i charge £10 a house on a take it or leave it attitude, if they hum and ha, i dont want them, if they want anything other than monthly i dont want them.
When we are out working i know exactly where i am going without looking at my list, i dont want to get bogged down with "Is this one this month or next" type thing, it drives you insane. Even now i am looking to sacking my every other monthlys which i let slip into my domestic rounds.
Once you get to a certain size, administration becomes a nightmare and lots of little irregular jobs will overwhelm you.
Dave
Dave the simple answer to the £20 a council house is..you cant get it, forget it and move onto somewhere where you have a chance of obtaining that rate. You cant get blood out of a stone
Theres no cut and dried rule, its just about giving yourself the best chance of obtaining the best rate you can. But one thing is for sure, if you dont ask for it you definately wont get it.
Mark
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Dai, well done that's the point i'm trying to make but can't seem to make clear. There has to be a limit at which the customer will back out. If you push your prices too high then thay can always fall back onto the cheaper cleaners that are always about, clean them themselves or just leave them. In my opinion it doesn't matter how good you are the customer will start to squirm and try to reduce the cost - maybe extend the periods between cleans or try "not today thanks.
Of course there is a limit, there is with everything. But customers wont pay you more money if they dont think you are worth more. There has to be a difference in what you do to what your competition do. What that is depends on what you have to offer.
Why do some customers stay loyal to a cleaner when they are quoted less for the same job? If everyone bought on price alone there would be no choice, just the lowest priced companies would be in business.
If you are more expensive than your competition for the same job then the customer thinks that you are either very good at what you do and the service will be better, or they will think your a rip off merchant and over priced, only you can influence which one the customer thinks you are.
Mark
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Davo
Sorry i thought you were giving the impression you could.
Are you going to start window cleaning soon ?.
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Davo
Sorry i thought you were giving the impression you could.
Are you going to start window cleaning soon ?.
Selling conservatory and PVCu cleaning services rather than window cleaning service. My friend is growing his round quite nicely, but has room to clean what im selling.
I cleaned a couple of conservatories last year, dont think that qualifies me as a window cleaner though.
Mark
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it, not all about charging more.... i know another wfpoler in my area who charges about 50% more than i do ...
yet his takings are less than mine per hour.... he has a higher cancelation rate .... and spends double on fuel....
it,s very hard for other wc to get their foot in on my areas....
my round is very condensed and so i can keep my prices at a reasonable affordable rate for the customer....
although i have a minimum charge of £10. if i have a house here or a house there spread out i do charge as much as i can ....... but most of my round is park up and do a cluster of houses....most of which are decent size houses...
someone was canvassing my customers at 50% less than i charge.... i didn't lose one customer...
my pricing method works for me..... :)
I think charging less because a part of a round is compact. I used to do this and ended up stuck with one or two pl;aces at "compact" prices even after the others had cancelled/moved. I price each job as though it's the only one in the immediate area.
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Maybe you are right whilst growing your business, but as soon as you have a full round you soon learn the error of your ways.
As for £20 for a council house, maybe you could get it, but not often and not for a regular clean. If you are talking every 6 months ? well i really wouldnt want to know. I would much prefer to have 500 quality customers on monthly than 3000 doing them 6 monthly.
With council houses i charge £10 a house on a take it or leave it attitude, if they hum and ha, i dont want them, if they want anything other than monthly i dont want them.
When we are out working i know exactly where i am going without looking at my list, i dont want to get bogged down with "Is this one this month or next" type thing, it drives you insane. Even now i am looking to sacking my every other monthlys which i let slip into my domestic rounds.
Once you get to a certain size, administration becomes a nightmare and lots of little irregular jobs will overwhelm you.
Dave
Ditto Dave with the one difference that instead of monthly and two monthly, read 6 weekly and 12 weekly for me. I will only do jobs at £50+ on a 12 weekly basis though. Anything smaller at a lower frequency is a hassle (I do still have some 30 pounders at 12 weekly but that was before I started doing things differently). I prefer 6 weekly to monthly as it gives me more leeway to juggle my schedule around.
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Dai, well done that's the point i'm trying to make but can't seem to make clear. There has to be a limit at which the customer will back out. If you push your prices too high then thay can always fall back onto the cheaper cleaners that are always about, clean them themselves or just leave them. In my opinion it doesn't matter how good you are the customer will start to squirm and try to reduce the cost - maybe extend the periods between cleans or try "not today thanks.
Of course there is a limit, there is with everything. But customers wont pay you more money if they dont think you are worth more. There has to be a difference in what you do to what your competition do. What that is depends on what you have to offer.
Why do some customers stay loyal to a cleaner when they are quoted less for the same job? If everyone bought on price alone there would be no choice, just the lowest priced companies would be in business.
If you are more expensive than your competition for the same job then the customer thinks that you are either very good at what you do and the service will be better, or they will think your a rip off merchant and over priced, only you can influence which one the customer thinks you are.
Mark
I'm sure that if I quoted £20 for every council house that I quote for, I would get the occasional one. However, it does leave the job very vulnerable to being undercut or to the customer messing around. My own preference is to have a decent price but not so high that the customer looks elsewhere. I can and do sell my service on things other than price as you suggest. However, I don't want to be going around forever having to replace work. I want to earn well (which I usually do) whilst keeping the hassle factor as low as possible. I picked up what would be termed "council house" the other day. I priced at £12. I got the impression that I could have gone to £15 even. Usually, £10 would be the upper limit around here for such a property though. I've still got one I do for £7.50. It needs to be more really though. I still have a few jobs that are a hangover from my previous life :) and that is one of them. I'll shove £1 on later this year. I'm amazed the guy is still alive.
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"I've still got one I do for £7.50" quote
I wish i only had one at that price with the rest being higher...
In my area that is average price for a semi.. ???
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Forget the price for a moment , how long does it take to clean a semi garry ?
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Experience what does it cost as the title says:
it costs £100's if not £1000's to learn the tricks of this trade.
I wish this place as others like this was here when I first started would have saved me and many others a lot of money.
Passing on experience to others costs nothing and I will always do my best to help someone as will many on here.
Happy Easter all ;)
Ian
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well said ian ;D ;D
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No I wont !
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Experience what does it cost as the title says:
it costs £100's if not £1000's to learn the tricks of this trade.
I wish this place as others like this was here when I first started would have saved me and many others a lot of money.
Passing on experience to others costs nothing and I will always do my best to help someone as will many on here.
Happy Easter all ;)
Ian
Have to add to that, many people think it it is easy, only cleaning windows, it aint nothing like that, that is the trust of the matter, if you want to do a crap job maybe it is easy but doing a quality job wfp or trad needs experience this IMO is a fact.
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Forget the price for a moment , how long does it take to clean a semi garry ?
Point taken Jonah. lol
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No I wont !
???jonah did b&q have a b.o.g.o.f. on evo stik again ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Forget the price for a moment , how long does it take to clean a semi garry ?
looooooooooooooool ::)
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Davo
Maybe you are right whilst growing your business, but as soon as you have a full round you soon learn the error of your ways.
As for £20 for a council house, maybe you could get it, but not often and not for a regular clean. If you are talking every 6 months ? well i really wouldnt want to know. I would much prefer to have 500 quality customers on monthly than 3000 doing them 6 monthly.
With council houses i charge £10 a house on a take it or leave it attitude, if they hum and ha, i dont want them, if they want anything other than monthly i dont want them.
When we are out working i know exactly where i am going without looking at my list, i dont want to get bogged down with "Is this one this month or next" type thing, it drives you insane. Even now i am looking to sacking my every other monthlys which i let slip into my domestic rounds.
Once you get to a certain size, administration becomes a nightmare and lots of little irregular jobs will overwhelm you.
Dave
Dave the simple answer to the £20 a council house is..you cant get it, forget it and move onto somewhere where you have a chance of obtaining that rate. You cant get blood out of a stone
Theres no cut and dried rule, its just about giving yourself the best chance of obtaining the best rate you can. But one thing is for sure, if you dont ask for it you definately wont get it.
Mark
Mark your wrong about the council house for £20 you can get it and more!
It,s a lot easy than getting blood out of a stone. The fact that you compare the
it to that, shows you have not done it, or cannot get those prices yourself.
Once you are able to get these prices and more for council house, you can go
to any house with confidence.
Pricing has nothing to do with your social status at all.
Ewan ;D
Ewan, sry but you most be smoking something, £20+ FOPR A STANDARD HOUSE.
I would be very worried indeed. just a word of warning there m8.
nothing wrong with getting a good price but that ios way way over pricing on a standard house and trust me I am not cheap.
Ian
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"I've still got one I do for £7.50" quote
I wish i only had one at that price with the rest being higher...
In my area that is average price for a semi.. ???
The cheapest houses I do are £6. However, they are three tiny cottages in a terrace and I do all three in under half an hour. If I lost one of them, I would up the price of the other two. If I lost two of them I would have to up the price of the remaining one considerably - that or cancel the job. £6 is the cheapest job I have remaining. I have a small bungalow I charge that amount for as well. Nearly forgot - I have a small shop front for a fiver. However, I doubt I have a dozen jobs these days for under a tenner.
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sorry meant to say no it isnt , but glad i made you smile :P
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Experience what does it cost as the title says:
it costs £100's if not £1000's to learn the tricks of this trade.
I wish this place as others like this was here when I first started would have saved me and many others a lot of money.
Passing on experience to others costs nothing and I will always do my best to help someone as will many on here.
Happy Easter all ;)
Ian
Indeed Ian. My mistakes have cost me money even with a forum to turn to. Although the forum is a great resource, ways of working can be very individual. It's not a one size fits all situation.
BTW. I phoned that number you gave me but they had already made other arrangements. Thanks anyway.
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jonah ;D ;D ;D
I do hope this thread is not starting to go down the dreaded "PRICING" route
always ends in tears :'(
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No Im good thanks
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Window washers, Ian,
Not overpricing at all, I dont price up any different from doing
council house or a £1m house.
Ewan ;D
Do you clean either ?
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Good post
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Ive just started out after months of reading the forums. Got my van and equipment last week and having the van sign written on Wednesday. Already just through word of mouth (as I havent canvessed yet) Ive done 4 jobs in the past few days. So Im pleased as I can afford to take time doing them and make a really good job + impression. However, Pricing is my biggest concern. I think you can only price what an area is prepared to pay, as with everything there is always an upper limit. I know I'm pricing slightly more than trad in my area and I feel I can justify this. I'm sure I'm going to make mistakes pricing, but at the end of the day hopefully it will all come good. I think this forum is the best one (I visit 4 in all) and the help and information I get has helped me no end - thanks guys.
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Window washers, Ian,
Not overpricing at all, I dont price up any different from doing
council house or a £1m house.
Ewan ;D
Do you clean either ?
I will clean any windows. I set my price and go from there.
I price up my jobs on my time, not on the buildings. this is the best way
I found to do it. I made lots of mistakes in the past year, but I always try to
learn from them. if you dont you will go round in circles.
I read on here lots, about some who are charging to little. Then get excited
about a big building. It makes no difference to me I set my price on the smaller
property and the large, it allways comes down to time it takes nothing more.
Ewan :)
Ewan the point i was making is that if they havent got the money you cant take it off them. Someone who has £3 a wek left over after paying his bills aint gonna spend £20 they havent got on anything, let alone their windows.
Mark
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That's the most sensible comment i've seen for weeks! :o
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Chepstow is a fairly affluent place; there's almost no council estates here; most council houses have been bought; there's a severe lack of social accommodation in these parts and anyone who can't buy generally privately rents.
But I clean many of the ex-council houses; terraced and semi.
No-one here will get £20 for one of these unless there's a big extension and a conservatory; or it's Georgian or leaded windows.
People who live in these houses aren't stupid; they talk to neighbors and family; they'll probably pay over the going rate (I now charge a tenner for a semi; and that's good round here; but most of mine are around the £8.50/9.00 mark), but there's no way they'd pay £20.
And even if a window cleaner whose smart, professional and looks like George Clooney; with the right 'patter'; tries to charge that, they just won't pay! They're not stupid; most of 'em anyway!
Full Stop.
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Chepstow is a fairly affluent place; there's almost no council estates here; most council houses have been bought; there's a severe lack of social accommodation in these parts and anyone who can't buy generally privately rents.
But I clean many of the ex-council houses; terraced and semi.
No-one here will get £20 for one of these unless there's a big extension and a conservatory; or it's Georgian or leaded windows.
People who live in these houses aren't stupid; they talk to neighbors and family; they'll probably pay over the going rate (I now charge a tenner for a semi; and that's good round here; but most of mine are around the £8.50/9.00 mark), but there's no way they'd pay £20.
And even if a window cleaner whose smart, professional and looks like George Clooney; with the right 'patter'; tries to charge that, they just won't pay! They're not stupid; most of 'em anyway!
Full Stop.
What George clooney a grey haired old looking bloke,no i wouldn`t want him doing my windows either.
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I do some ex council houses where I live, I charge £6 and I have lost a few to a guy who charges £4.50.
I'm not at all bothered if he takes them all. They are the worst payers on my round. Dai
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I've got a few, not many because i don't want them (my choice) and they are good for me because i overpriced them deliberately to avoid them but still i got them.
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Usually, when I put my prices up, I tell them in September that there will be a price increase next year.
This works OK because next year is 3 months away, and by the time it comes round they have got used to the idea.
Putting up my prices in April was a bad move, the O.A.P's are angry with their tiny pension increases, and the budget gave nothing away did it?
In future I will revert to telling them in September " there will be an increase next year".
Just after the budget is not a good time. Dai
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Window washers, Ian,
Not overpricing at all, I dont price up any different from doing
council house or a £1m house.
Ewan ;D
Do you clean either ?
I will clean any windows. I set my price and go from there.
I price up my jobs on my time, not on the buildings. this is the best way
I found to do it. I made lots of mistakes in the past year, but I always try to
learn from them. if you dont you will go round in circles.
I read on here lots, about some who are charging to little. Then get excited
about a big building. It makes no difference to me I set my price on the smaller
property and the large, it allways comes down to time it takes nothing more.
Ewan :)
Ewan the point i was making is that if they havent got the money you cant take it off them. Someone who has £3 a wek left over after paying his bills aint gonna spend £20 they havent got on anything, let alone their windows.
Mark
Davo
You've got me all confused again, what, exactly is your point ???
Tony
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Davo
Maybe you are right whilst growing your business, but as soon as you have a full round you soon learn the error of your ways.
As for £20 for a council house, maybe you could get it, but not often and not for a regular clean. If you are talking every 6 months ? well i really wouldnt want to know. I would much prefer to have 500 quality customers on monthly than 3000 doing them 6 monthly.
With council houses i charge £10 a house on a take it or leave it attitude, if they hum and ha, i dont want them, if they want anything other than monthly i dont want them.
When we are out working i know exactly where i am going without looking at my list, i dont want to get bogged down with "Is this one this month or next" type thing, it drives you insane. Even now i am looking to sacking my every other monthlys which i let slip into my domestic rounds.
Once you get to a certain size, administration becomes a nightmare and lots of little irregular jobs will overwhelm you.
Dave
Dave the simple answer to the £20 a council house is..you cant get it, forget it and move onto somewhere where you have a chance of obtaining that rate. You cant get blood out of a stone
Theres no cut and dried rule, its just about giving yourself the best chance of obtaining the best rate you can. But one thing is for sure, if you dont ask for it you definately wont get it.
Mark
Mark your wrong about the council house for £20 you can get it and more!
It,s a lot easy than getting blood out of a stone. The fact that you compare the
it to that, shows you have not done it, or cannot get those prices yourself.
Once you are able to get these prices and more for council house, you can go
to any house with confidence.
Pricing has nothing to do with your social status at all.
Ewan ;D
Mac Mac in response to ewans post, I wanted to emphasise the point if they havent got it to spend you cant take it off them. As it happens low dem housing are good spenders IF you can find a way to make it affordable for them.
Mark
The topic has meandered, nothing new, my original point seems to have got lost.
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Mark have you thought of building rounds for w/cs ?