Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wcs. on March 21, 2008, 12:46:10 pm
-
?
-
Ewan,
With wfp becoming more popular and cheaper, commercial work will be very competative as we will see an influx in the small operator in his estate car and trolley trying to step into bigger shoes without knowing the game peoperly.
I have recently been shown estimates from these operators trying to muscle in on some of my jobs. One even undercut me by hundreds! I still kept hold of it, so I must be doing something right ;)
How many times on here have I seen "how much for this" topics with replies like "£180 I could do it in a day". Maybe the North and South divide but in some cases its the inexperinced who has just got a wfp for christmas.
Alex
-
If you are not already, do you intend to?
Went wfp nearly 3 years ago, don't remember why I left it so long!
Is this going to be the for the majority, the way to window clean in the next few years?
Yes - but there will always be a need for mop and squeegee and scrim
Do you think it will end the reign of the cowboy's?
No, already plenty of pole cowboys
Will it improve the pre-conceived image of the Window Cleaner?
To many, yes, they are being forced to see us as tradesmen, whilst others now resent that even a windowcleaner can afford such equipment
Can any of you see more benefits for the Window Cleaner?(apart from safety)
Yes, many health benefits. My knees work again! Unfortunately I now have repetitive strain in my arms
Ewan :)
Pj
-
No and No
Possibly, but not for WCs in SW London
No they will always exist in all trades
No, a WC is a WC irrespective of what method he uses
Yes. Speed, thus the potential to earn more. In the right hands possibly better than trad but this is debatable.
-
you get a very unbalanced view of WCing in the UK from the forums. A large % of forumers are new to it (under 3 years, lookin for tips/advise, etc) or are extremely into their work and wc'ing has become an obbsession! Hence there is a massive leaning towards WFP. The majority of Uk wc'ers, ie the guys who operate big companies, have been in the game for years, etc never bother coming on as they have better things to do!
I'd say because of WFP there will be even more cowboys in the future due to it being so easy!
-
I have no intensions of going WFP as i prefere the traditional method and i know my customers would too.
My customers like to see me climbing the ladders and clambering over walls and fences.
ive heard to many stories on here of frozen pipes and mechanical breakdowns,only problems i get is my bucket going missing in the school holidays. ;)
-
I would say less than 10% of window Cleaners use WFP.
-
If lads are doing easy enough domestic work off ladders keep on with it( IF IT AINT BROKE WHY BOTHER FIXING IT).....just the other day I was talking to some custys who have their windows cleaned by WFP they were all up in arms as wfp aint been getting the bird muck from the glass....I presume this is the fault of the operator,but with trad the customer would have no complaints.
-
in my opinion my round is not compatible for wfp !
i am considering a trolley for some of the current commercial contracts , and for poss future ones ,
but not for houses !
-
If lads are doing easy enough domestic work off ladders keep on with it( IF IT AINT BROKE WHY BOTHER FIXING IT).....just the other day I was talking to some custys who have their windows cleaned by WFP they were all up in arms as wfp aint been getting the bird muck from the glass....I presume this is the fault of the operator,but with trad the customer would have no complaints.
I was trad for 17 years and then got my wfp. I can do both equally well. Sometimes I prefer hand tools because I know the job will come up better with them.
Too many window cleaners get into wfp and look upon it as a magic wand that you just threaten the glass with and you will have a perfect result! You have to really work the brush into the glass.
The claims that you can double your earnings accross your whole round are also inacurate.
Trouble is too many new window cleaners are 'one trick ponies' who can only use wfp. Get a problem and the rug is pulled from under their feet!
-
If lads are doing easy enough domestic work off ladders keep on with it( IF IT AINT BROKE WHY BOTHER FIXING IT).....just the other day I was talking to some custys who have their windows cleaned by WFP they were all up in arms as wfp aint been getting the bird muck from the glass....I presume this is the fault of the operator,but with trad the customer would have no complaints.
Get a problem and the rug is pulled from under their feet!
what problems would you face Simon?
-
Its true to say that not all windows 'like' wfp.
For instance the white powder coated ally frames tend to leach stains down the glass.
Also older wood frames often dont come up that good.
Some cheaper upvc windows bleed from the black seals around the glass.
And with some windows the glass dont sheet well while rinsing and the water even climbs back up the window 3-4 inches taking dirt with it. Result being spotting when they dry.
Poor installation of windows can also cause problems. If the frame sealant is poor especially on the top frame no matter how much water you put on that frame you can still get runs from the dirt and dust collected in the gap between frame and wall.
There are ways around some of these problems but often your probably just best getting the hand tools out.
-
If lads are doing easy enough domestic work off ladders keep on with it( IF IT AINT BROKE WHY BOTHER FIXING IT).....just the other day I was talking to some custys who have their windows cleaned by WFP they were all up in arms as wfp aint been getting the bird muck from the glass....I presume this is the fault of the operator,but with trad the customer would have no complaints.
I was trad for 17 years and then got my wfp. I can do both equally well. Sometimes I prefer hand tools because I know the job will come up better with them.
Too many window cleaners get into wfp and look upon it as a magic wand that you just threaten the glass with and you will have a perfect result! You have to really work the brush into the glass.
The claims that you can double your earnings accross your whole round are also inacurate.
Trouble is too many new window cleaners are 'one trick ponies' who can only use wfp. Get a problem and the rug is pulled from under their feet!
Lucky for me I can do both as do the guys that work for me ;)
-
well we are 100% wfp, never used trad on doms only insides on com we can get to all our clients windows, and the only problems we ever face are spots and runs on first cleans. we NEVER recieve any complaints of poor workmanship (well very rarely;)) the way i see it if it couldn't be wfp it ain't worth the hassle so they would get replaced (but we never / rarely get complaints ;))
-
The trouble with this trad v wfp debate is that it'll will never be settled...
In the right hands both wfp and trad are able to make glass clean.....but in the wrong hands they'll both make a pigs ear of anything they touch...
I am one of those one trick ponies.....(ok when I was 21 I did 6 whole weeks full time ;D trad)....then went into computing.
I use wfp for the most of my work...do one complete commercial insides trad and the odd door here and there...but in the main wfp is for me..
As for coming a croper when somethings gets broke...well I have looked at this and have backups for all my wfp components....pumps/valves, hose, reels, pole, brushes....as I order all my gear from UK I have ordered so as not to have to panic when somethings breaks...the 6 p's spring to mind here....
But this debate about which method is best is a loser....now who is the best would be worth some debate......
As so far nobody has claimed the 'best window cleaner' title...I just have to accept that by your silence you all bow down and acknowledge me as the master blaster here..... ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Dave.
-
You must be able to use trad method to a high standard aswell,if you think you can WFP all the way your mistaken.I WFP everything i can but some work that i do demands trad way and the pay is to good to turn away,the main reason i trad is access to some properties and very old brittle glass.
-
if you think you can WFP all the way your mistaken.
urrmmm...not at all, you can wfp everything and we do...never had to turn a job down and never had a job where we can't achieve top results. we've had the dd custmer that prefers the trad method but thats thier personal choice and nothing to do with bad results
-
Nat i`m hot next week. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Nat i`m hot next week. ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've always been hot!! and i'm not talking about my systems!! ;D ;D
-
:-* :-* :-* :-*
-
I prefer wfp to trad, but agree trad will never die as not everything can be done wfp (if only) I find it annoys me if I cant wfp now.
One thing I will say thats totaly off topic is whos stupid idea was it to make a balcony you cant walk out on, you cant clean it trad or wfp........ whats the point of it being there, it does not look nice at all it is a waste and highly annoying >:(
Glad I got that off my chest feel better now.
Ian
-
NO !!. Not totally cos it's only a tool.
;D ;D
-
I think there are more bad WFP users round here than there are good. I am a WFP user but I have picked up a few customers who were disatisfied with their previous window cleaner who was also WFP.
There is a bit more science to it and a bit more skill and technique than a lot of people realise. A lot of people have got into it ( or been sold the idea) in the belief that its 100% reliable and anyone can do it. Thats not the case.
-
I think there are more bad WFP users round here than there are good. I am a WFP user but I have picked up a few customers who were disatisfied with their previous window cleaner who was also WFP.
There is a bit more science to it and a bit more skill and technique than a lot of people realise. A lot of people have got into it ( or been sold the idea) in the belief that its 100% reliable and anyone can do it. Thats not the case.
Vince makes a good point - I have picked up work from another wfp person who (I believe) didn't turn the flow down on georgian windows and who should've bladed poorly fitting doors.
Uneducated domestic custy's in the main think trad = good, wfp = not good.
As time goes by and as we make them aware, the issue will become good v bad window cleaner, whatever method is used. Which is fine by me!
-
I think there are more bad WFP users round here than there are good. I am a WFP user but I have picked up a few customers who were disatisfied with their previous window cleaner who was also WFP.
There is a bit more science to it and a bit more skill and technique than a lot of people realise. A lot of people have got into it ( or been sold the idea) in the belief that its 100% reliable and anyone can do it. Thats not the case.
Vince makes a good point - I have picked up work from another wfp person who (I believe) didn't turn the flow down on georgian windows and who should've bladed poorly fitting doors.
Uneducated domestic custy's in the main think trad = good, wfp = not good.
As time goes by and as we make them aware, the issue will become good v bad window cleaner, whatever method is used. Which is fine by me!
yep was a good point, I know I have make mistakes myself doing doors ect but did let customers know before thank god.
there will always be good and bad window cleaners and is normally reflected in price.
-
I think there are more bad WFP users round here than there are good. I am a WFP user but I have picked up a few customers who were disatisfied with their previous window cleaner who was also WFP.
There is a bit more science to it and a bit more skill and technique than a lot of people realise. A lot of people have got into it ( or been sold the idea) in the belief that its 100% reliable and anyone can do it. Thats not the case.
Completley agree with that,there is a certain way it has to be done it`s not just a case of squirting water over the glass.On the whole a good gage is your phone,if your phone keeps ringing with complaints your not doing it right.
-
I think there are more bad WFP users round here than there are good. I am a WFP user but I have picked up a few customers who were disatisfied with their previous window cleaner who was also WFP.
There is a bit more science to it and a bit more skill and technique than a lot of people realise. A lot of people have got into it ( or been sold the idea) in the belief that its 100% reliable and anyone can do it. Thats not the case.
I use WFP and have picked up quite a bit of work from other WFP users because their customers are not happy with the poor results they've been left with time and again. The trouble with some WFP users is mainly trying to rush the WFP method and not putting enough water on the windows because they charge too little, so they have to rush the jobs. I charge decent and clean decent. Bring on more of these WFP' ers who don't give a damn about the state of the windows they clean but want the money quickly, lol. I'm in it for the long term, not the get rich quick approach.