Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: geefree on March 21, 2008, 12:39:32 am
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Hi,
Currently building but ultimately i want to take someone on , then i want to split the round in half and build again and so on...... but i could do with a little help right now ...
my dilemma is , do i take a cut in wages , take my brother on ( always nagging me)..
and build faster with two of us .. plus clean the existing houses quicker, therefore giving more breathing space...
or do i wait until i cant cope, then do it....
or do i simply fill my round, and ditch the low priced calls, and carry on that way until i have a comfortable round without the hassle of employin...?
i would like to hear both views if i can... people who are succrssful employing people and those who would rather ,simply build themselves a decent round and shy away from the traumas of employing.
Thanks.
Gary.
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My opinion comes from the viewpoint that I want to be retired in the next five years (retired meaning not getting hands dirty anymore).
If you want to build a business that will continue to pay you, when you want some time off, want a 2 week holiday or are going to semi retire - then you have to employ or sub contract, franchise etc. Either way you are handing over the responsibility of the day to day running to another.
With this you will have the head aches that go with this decision, tax, N.I., paying for holidays, equipment being broken, the list is endless.
It is difficult as we have so many variables of different people on here, that are all in different situations and what is right for me may be completely unachievable for someone else, or just not their dream.
There are many on here who earn exceptionally well as lone operators, so can afford to take time off on the understanding that for a holiday period they will not earn but when they kick back in they will be back in the money, these same people may be sticking into ISAs and savings accounts for their retirement. On the flip side their will be the same who do not look toward the future and spend what they get in, as soon as they get it and fail to see the long term picture
You are coming towards a crossroads in your business and the decisions you will have to make will be difficult ones - I say employ, look after your employee/s and they will look after you and with the right people you can build a solid business capable of doing more work as you have more hands to utilise than the one man operation.
Good luck
Rob ;D
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excellent advice Rob :)
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Thankyou
This is a difficult post to post on as I have just sold a residential round to concentrate on commercial - high end contract work and have reinvested heavily in three other areas, which will take us away from window cleaniing but still in the cleaning sector.
Phone call last night - £22000.00 window cleaning contract, we have been looking after for 4 years - lost to a national contracting company that has all the branches.
I am a little disheartened at the moment but this is the path I have chosen and the income will be replaced, we are already working on two other contracts and looking into moving into another specialist field.
High end contracts like these are not for everyone, for this very reason but boy they don't half pay well and the buzz when you pick a new one up is phenomenal.
Whatever day you have today, or if you lose a clean, or something goes wrong - take it on the chin, let it hurt, learn from it and get back out there and get some more work in.
Rob ;D
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build to earn money, simple. All I want is to earn enough to have a good lifestyle, pay the bills and have enough to do whatever I need/want to do.
Employing people just seems to be complicating the job. If you need to earn more money start up something else
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Many thanks Rob,
it will be difficult when i have to make those decisions , as you have said,
i would probably go with your advice as i dont want to be killing myself physically later in life simply to have a comfortable lifestyle,.. how can it be comfortable, ? apart from sundays.
Also if i wanted to go into something else, then i would be in the same boat eventually too.
Of course its about making money and that bit IS simple to understand, (the reason we work ::)).... but when its at a point , a crossroads, there are decisions to be made..
Thanks for that brilliant advice Rob.
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My opinion comes from the viewpoint that I want to be retired in the next five years (retired meaning not getting hands dirty anymore).
If you want to build a business that will continue to pay you, when you want some time off, want a 2 week holiday or are going to semi retire - then you have to employ or sub contract, franchise etc. Either way you are handing over the responsibility of the day to day running to another.
With this you will have the head aches that go with this decision, tax, N.I., paying for holidays, equipment being broken, the list is endless.
It is difficult as we have so many variables of different people on here, that are all in different situations and what is right for me may be completely unachievable for someone else, or just not their dream.
There are many on here who earn exceptionally well as lone operators, so can afford to take time off on the understanding that for a holiday period they will not earn but when they kick back in they will be back in the money, these same people may be sticking into ISAs and savings accounts for their retirement. On the flip side their will be the same who do not look toward the future and spend what they get in, as soon as they get it and fail to see the long term picture
You are coming towards a crossroads in your business and the decisions you will have to make will be difficult ones - I say employ, look after your employee/s and they will look after you and with the right people you can build a solid business capable of doing more work as you have more hands to utilise than the one man operation.
Good luck
Rob ;D
Not true ;D
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quote]
Not true ;D
why not ian. please explain.
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Hi Ian, ooking forward to your talk on franchises next week..see you there!
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;D
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Thanks Ewan,
that is one of the options i ahve stated... low priced... taken on at the beginning when i had little idea how to price,
Are there any w/cs out there who have a full round of excellent prices.... really truthful answer please?..... its a slow process to get rid and replace but it needs to be done...
by the way, when i fisrt started i did target larger properties, and my round is quite full of decent priced work... but there are a few i need to siphon out.
Gary
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All businesses should have a business plan. Work out where you want your business to be in 1,3, 5 years and put in place a plan to get you there. By the sound of your post you are planning on building a business as opposed to a round.
You cant build a business on one person imo so you will have to employ/ franchise/ sub contract and deal with all the issues involved in that if you want to build a business.
If you have £1000 per week work now you are probably busy working hard. If you employ the right person they will do the £1000.00 work and you will pay them maybe £400 per week. You will supervise there work and also devote your time to getting new work. By the end of 1 year you should be aimimg to have double the work you started with and two employees so your turnover will be £2000 per week and your outgoings will be increased by £800 wages and the cost of running a second van. At this stage you have invested a year of your time and £20,000 in labour cost in your business and you are only now back to earning the same as when you started but if you continue the expansion by the end of year three you have a sizable business with 3/ 4 employees and an asset that can be sold or passed on.
The figures used are for example only.
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Pity Ians talk couldnt be recorded for those who carnt go :( as its a very intresting subject.
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I have been a wc for about 10 years. I always wanted to get to the stage where i could have enough work and staff to be able to send them out at the beginning of the week. At the end of the week they bring me my share say 30%, so if i had enough teams of staff say 4 teams of 2 i could collect in around a grand a week for not doing much.
This on paper or a screen looks great. The reality in my opinion is not so great. In previous posts people have mentioned the problems of being a big operation so im not going to go there. This is just my opinion. I have gone through about 40-50 lads in 10 years, i have tried it with older guys but they dont have the same motivation as you do when they realise they are gettin £10-£15 and you get however much you earn.
Im still trad but hoping to get into wfp soon. I enjoy trad cleaning and cant see the need to spend a couple of grand on wfp when ive a got a system that works.
For a month now i have been on my own. I have put prices up by £1 to £2 and so my hourly rate has inreased by 20%. The problem i have is that my round does about £1300 a week. Im pretty fast but i aint going to bet it all done. I have been thinking about selling some but i cant think of an area to sell because most of my custys think im great. Especially now im on my own.
I think at the start of this post i wanted to say that having staff is hastle and being on your own is not. But the more i type the more im not so sure.
Dont know if this makes any sense but to recap im alot happier being on my own earning great money, not having to rely on people, cover up their mistakes but i will never get around my round on time.
Cheers, Paul.
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nive post birdy,
cant you get a working partner who would be willing to invest,
i totally understand your dilemma, well i dont , i suppose because you have done it all, and i am very inexperienced compared to you.
have you tried just one reliable hard worker , to ease the strain for you, and pay him well?
you probably have tried it all,
it would be interesting to hear from the other guys who have staff.
Gary.
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good sensible advice too Bluez ;)
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I have been a wc for about 10 years. I always wanted to get to the stage where i could have enough work and staff to be able to send them out at the beginning of the week. At the end of the week they bring me my share say 30%, so if i had enough teams of staff say 4 teams of 2 i could collect in around a grand a week for not doing much.
This on paper or a screen looks great. The reality in my opinion is not so great. In previous posts people have mentioned the problems of being a big operation so im not going to go there. This is just my opinion. I have gone through about 40-50 lads in 10 years, i have tried it with older guys but they dont have the same motivation as you do when they realise they are gettin £10-£15 and you get however much you earn.
Im still trad but hoping to get into wfp soon. I enjoy trad cleaning and cant see the need to spend a couple of grand on wfp when ive a got a system that works.
For a month now i have been on my own. I have put prices up by £1 to £2 and so my hourly rate has inreased by 20%. The problem i have is that my round does about £1300 a week. Im pretty fast but i aint going to bet it all done. I have been thinking about selling some but i cant think of an area to sell because most of my custys think im great. Especially now im on my own.
I think at the start of this post i wanted to say that having staff is hastle and being on your own is not. But the more i type the more im not so sure.
Dont know if this makes any sense but to recap im alot happier being on my own earning great money, not having to rely on people, cover up their mistakes but i will never get around my round on time.
Cheers, Paul.
Birdy I understand your frustrations .................but If McDonalds gave up because of high staff turnover or because the ceo was the one the customers wanted to serve them they would like you be self employed as opposed to in business.
No disrespect intended but Maybe the issue with staff is about you and not them, they are never going to be as good as you are because it is your business/dream so you have to allow for that and they will leave you when the mood takes them but that is now your job as a small business owner you are the HR person, the accounts person the sales person etc, some who have worked hard physically for years building a round might find it difficult to move from a straight forward windows dirty......windows clean occupation to running a business and all of the headaches involved in hiring and firing and it can sometimes seem (and be) easier just to do the work yourself but that limits the potential of the business.
Just my opinion, no ,more valid than yours or anyone elses.
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Hi Guys
I have found you posts very interesting. I run a contract cleaning company and up to a year ago I worked alone. I had got to the stage where i was working from 4am through to 8am. I was getting no younger and the physical tolls started to show.Constantly tired and stressed. I decided to take the plunge and employ and I can tell you it was the best thing i have ever done. It allowed me to actually run the business properly, before i was the worker, the person who did the quoting and the admin work. I now have time to see what jobs are not cost effective, what areas the business was wasting money etc . This came from having suddenly having freed up time by having others do the work. In the last year the business has trebled in turnover and we hope to hit the £200,000 mark by the end of the year. I employ around ten staff now and when i went on holiday in February, it was the first time i was able to relax totally, knowing that all my contracts were covered by my staff.
It has allowed me the time to run my business properly, giving me time to target the larger companies where the real money is.
I know this is only my opinion but if you really want to own a business with a good turnover you need to employ. It is the future you need to look at and you have to ask will you be able to do the same work and hours when you are in your sixty.By employing and building your business correctly you should earn the same income as you do now ( if not more) but be sitting behind your desk with your staff earning the income for you.
Regards
Karl
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Hi Guys
I have found you posts very interesting. I run a contract cleaning company and up to a year ago I worked alone. I had got to the stage where i was working from 4am through to 8am. I was getting no younger and the physical tolls started to show.Constantly tired and stressed. I decided to take the plunge and employ and I can tell you it was the best thing i have ever done. It allowed me to actually run the business properly, before i was the worker, the person who did the quoting and the admin work. I now have time to see what jobs are not cost effective, what areas the business was wasting money etc . This came from having suddenly having freed up time by having others do the work. In the last year the business has trebled in turnover and we hope to hit the £200,000 mark by the end of the year. I employ around ten staff now and when i went on holiday in February, it was the first time i was able to relax totally, knowing that all my contracts were covered by my staff.
It has allowed me the time to run my business properly, giving me time to target the larger companies where the real money is.
I know this is only my opinion but if you really want to own a business with a good turnover you need to employ. It is the future you need to look at and you have to ask will you be able to do the same work and hours when you are in your sixty.By employing and building your business correctly you should earn the same income as you do now ( if not more) but be sitting behind your desk with your staff earning the income for you.
Regards
Karl
amen ;) man after my own heart, you need to be able to steer and grow your business and you can't do that holding a pole all day ;)
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amen man after my own heart, you need to be able to steer and grow your business and you can't do that holding a pole all day
I quite like holding my pole all day ;D
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Hi Guys
I have found you posts very interesting. I run a contract cleaning company and up to a year ago I worked alone. I had got to the stage where i was working from 4am through to 8am. I was getting no younger and the physical tolls started to show.Constantly tired and stressed. I decided to take the plunge and employ and I can tell you it was the best thing i have ever done. It allowed me to actually run the business properly, before i was the worker, the person who did the quoting and the admin work. I now have time to see what jobs are not cost effective, what areas the business was wasting money etc . This came from having suddenly having freed up time by having others do the work. In the last year the business has trebled in turnover and we hope to hit the £200,000 mark by the end of the year. I employ around ten staff now and when i went on holiday in February, it was the first time i was able to relax totally, knowing that all my contracts were covered by my staff.
It has allowed me the time to run my business properly, giving me time to target the larger companies where the real money is.
I know this is only my opinion but if you really want to own a business with a good turnover you need to employ. It is the future you need to look at and you have to ask will you be able to do the same work and hours when you are in your sixty.By employing and building your business correctly you should earn the same income as you do now ( if not more) but be sitting behind your desk with your staff earning the income for you.
Regards
Karl
amen ;) man after my own heart, you need to be able to steer and grow your business and you can't do that holding a pole all day ;)
110% true
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Thanks for all the helpful replies, i think if i want to move forward and build a business , i need look no further than this site, for great advice and support
I really dont want to sit still and build a round and still be doing that when i am 70
I also do think window cleaning is a little bit harder when hiring the right staff,
Doing the job as you do.
presenting themselves in a professional manner,
collecting the money.
I suppose the list is endless, as some have stated on here.
Brilliant advice.
Thank you.
Gary,
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I have read this with interest too and think that all of the contributions have been excellent. I have been asking these same questions myself.
I wonder about my leadership and managment skills? It's scary, bluez's figures state that I wouldn't really get back to my current earnings untill year three.And if someone left, all the work could have been for nothing.Many posts on this forum warn don't do it.(Interestingly one says never employ family as when he eventually made a success there were problems).
Trying to be realistic about myself and my chances and not too boastfull I think I would/will be successfull, but that that success will be modest - I am not stupid enough to think I would as successfull as Karl , Midas or Ian.
My work is fairly spread out so even upon taking on employee one my speed is not going to jump that much because of traveling time but that's probably just an excuse. I need to accept that in year one I would lose money, and in year two be no better off. It's only money.
One critisism I would make of this site and my fellow cleaners, none of them seem to like spending any money. To me a van mount for the sort of businesses we have is peanuts.With the knowledge I have now I could put another van out tidy and sign written with a foolproof hot system and electric reel etc for about 10k. Measured against the potential benefits that's not a lot, it's having the gut's to actually do it (and telling my wife of course).
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Hi,
This post has really made me think about expanding further. Although we have small premises at the moment, around fifteen full time staff and a healthy turnover, I still feel like I am only playing with the business.
We have grown over the last six years naturally and through word of mouth. We have no sales team, no contracts manager just myself trying to run every aspect of the business.
I have just emailed an estate agent in regard to securing a larger unit, in a city centre location, I have been debating this move for the last couple of months. I hope to employ a contracts manager/sales person and really push the business over the coming months.
It's now or never time!
Cheers,
Huw.
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You've trumped us all a bit seerclean but good on you. Have you anything to say on what made you stop being a one man band, or how you found the courage in the first place?
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Bluez, I havnt given up im happy at the moment earning great money, im 34 so maybe i will feel the need to expand when i run out of energy. I worked in retail for 6 years working my way up to manager of a sports shop that turned over £1.2 million and for the final 4 months of my time their was performing 3rd best out of 120 stores. I then did a HND in business and finance for 2 years. My retail experience and HND have given me the relevant skills to successfully run my business. I know that my business is not just about dirty windows clean windows. I just feel that at the moment to invest say £30,000 in staff, work, equipment, training and vehicles is not right for me especially in the current "credit crunch climate". Trust me i have done the figures and for all the hassle it doesnt seem worth it.
What seerclean seems to have achieved looks great and im sure he works very hard and is under alot of pressure. Good luck to him and all of you. We are all different and what works for one does not work for everyone
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What gets me about employing people is finding the right people to do the job properly without losing customers because of their poor attitude to doing the job properly even though they are paid decent wages. Just can't trust employees to do the job properly because shoddy work is bad for business.
I suppose I would be best off setting up another van and letting the employee manage the whole round by themself, that way, when there is any comeback it's all their own responsibility/fault. Pay them on a percentage of earnings they achieve. That way I don't need to push them to work as they have to motivate themself. Is that the best way to go if employing. In the past I have done PAYE but it's too much hard work, checking them, motivating them, etc.
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What gets me about employing people is finding the right people to do the job properly without losing customers because of their poor attitude to doing the job properly even though they are paid decent wages. Just can't trust employees to do the job properly because shoddy work is bad for business.
I suppose I would be best off setting up another van and letting the employee manage the whole round by themself, that way, when there is any comeback it's all their own responsibility/fault. Pay them on a percentage of earnings they achieve. That way I don't need to push them to work as they have to motivate themself. Is that the best way to go if employing. In the past I have done PAYE but it's too much hard work, checking them, motivating them, etc.
performance related bonus is the way round that, thats what I do.
Also complaints they fix in there time and dont get paid for it (they seem not to get many compaints at all.. ::) weird I know)
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hi windowwashers,
i was wondering how many people you employ and how many vans you have on the rd, are you vat registered .interesting to know where your coming from .
only reason im asking is that i dont know how you guys manage it .at 42 im seriously thinking of going back to being on my own .
ed
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hi windowwashers,
i was wondering how many people you employ and how many vans you have on the rd, are you vat registered .interesting to know where your coming from .
only reason im asking is that i dont know how you guys manage it .at 42 im seriously thinking of going back to being on my own .
ed
in the last 2 years I have been ill and had to get rid of work because I could not manage, I regret that now but things happen, I am building up again fast as viable
I dont know how many you employ, but one is not enough IMO and working together if doing domestic houses is costing money as one works quicker on own.
I have been having a right nightmare if I am honest with staff in the last 7 months lost a couple then got another ditched them now have a shed load more hassle which I am not going into on here. I cant blame you for wanting or thinking of going back on your own I sometimes ask myself is it worth it, but to get where I am going to be I have no choice I cant do it on my own there is not enough hours in the day. And I do thank my lucky stars that I had staff after a car crash or I would really me in trouble now.
thinking of going back on your own can only mean a couple of things something is wrong or you dont have enough work, both can be sorted you are welcome to give me a call and have a chat if you like on 01234 870 225
Ian
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I am very envious of your hnd in business birdy. I would have loved to do something like that.I have a book, ten day MBA, and it's one of my favourites.I have another book called brand failures which is also very good. It details the top one hundred brand disasters and why (coke changing the recipe, harley davidson putting their name on perfume,sony betamax,ratners....).
My enthusiasms and skills have served me well. I have built a very strong brand locally in record time with most people thinking I am part of a franchise. I also believe with that I have put a lot of work into achieving the perfect van with the perfect system for working extremly fast error free which is my business recipe and unique selling point. My marketing (domestic so far) has achieved unbelievable results.I am also pleased with the admin systems I have in place to run the business but must admitt my bad debts are poor.
But boastfull as this sounds this is what I would expect as I have been very succesfull at other businesses work very hard and am open to ideas from places like this forum. Where I am untried and untested is in expanding further. I have never employed, led, delegated or had my fate left in the hands of others.
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Mr S and anyone else
Never underestimate what you can be capable of and where you may end up - you limit yourself by your own limitations.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that we have just lost a substantial contract to a national window cleaning supplier - most people would wallow in self pity. What is the point use it to get more work.
The level of success that you gain will be determined by how much stress you are capable of handling and how quickly you are capable of adapting to changes and how well you see opportunity and ultimately whether you are in a financial situation that wil allow you to invest in potential future work.
If you want big success then you have to make big sacrifices - in all areas of yor life. When I came into window cleaning I wanted what others had and I felt that if they could get it then there was no reason why I couldn't have it as well.
We have 1 customer at the moment - I bet everyone on here has more customers than me but they are a household name and they pay very well, we are working on others.
My conclusion is that less is more and our sights are set on the high end clients that want an exceptionally high level of cleaning services, full external cleaning services, drain jetting, chewing gum & graffiti removal and bespoke cleaning of difficult and previously uncleanable areas.
If a client has been told that a specific area cannot be cleaned then we will offer a service that will be part consultancy and the rest will be the application of getting the area clean.
I still want to replace my residential workload with 600 commercial properties over the next five years and am working on our other business interests.
No one ever told me that I couldn't achieve but similarly they never told me I could - I just see that others have had differing levels of success and they are no better than me!!!!!
I like the forum at the moment - there is a real maturity on the posts and it is a good place to be
Good luck
Rob ;D
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Hi
When i started out i had no real idea of running a business but learnt through others who run successful businesses. I took time out to get to know the MD's or managers of the companies that i was doing the office cleaning for. I gleaned knowledge from them about how to run a business. The best advice i was told was that "you can be a busy fool" and to look at all your contracts and cream off the top twenty percent and you will find you are working less hours but with the same profit.
I found this too be true and let go off the contracts that were not really worth doing. I then decided i would not sell my self short - i knew i was good at my job, provided a good service and i wanted to be paid for that service. I decided if i wanted good staff i needed to be able to pay good wages and if i wanted to grow the business i needed to charge a good hourly rate. I was used to getting 80% of the work i quoted for with the old rate i charged this dropped to about 60% with the new rate but the new work was profitable and was helping the business grow.
The government now offer free funding for nvq in business, health and safety etc and i have subscribed myself along with my staff on the courses.
I am always eager to learn from others, from people on this forum, people who run a diverse range of businesses, taking from them snippets of information that will help my business grow.
On the point of investing in your business this is a must, if you want to compete with the big boys you need to portray the right image. I spent a £1000 on my website but this has already paid for it self many times over. Staff uniforms, sign written vans all essentional to give a professional image.
I hope this helps anyone who is looking to make their business grow and remember don't sell yourself short you know what your worth and don't be frightened to ask for it!
Regards
Karl
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good post ;)
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The government now offer free funding for nvq in business, health and safety etc and i have subscribed myself along with my staff on the courses.
Regards
Karl
do you have a website address to find out more about this ? this I something I would also like to do.
The busy fool is so true, your posts are refreshing to read Karl ;) good on you for going that extra mile
Ian
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Hi Ian
Thanks for your comment.I will send you the web address when i'm back in the office on Tuesday.
Regards
Karl
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Hi Ian
Thanks for your comment.I will send you the web address when i'm back in the office on Tuesday.
Regards
Karl
Your welcome and thank you for doing that for me.
Ian
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Birdy
Sorry if my post sounded a bit patronising it wasn't meant that way. It sounds like you are doing very well with a great round. I was really just using your post to get my point across that building a business involves a very great change in thinking and focus from dealing directly with the nuts and bolts of the business yourself, to managing the operatives, contracts and business strategy while trusting (often wrongly) paid employees to carryout the physical side of the business.
This is an interesting thread, lots of good advice and thoughts from everyone, makes a change from everyone trying to score points of each other. :)
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hi karl
did you get my e mail?
i send it yesterday.
Regards
Bosh
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In the last year the business has trebled in turnover and we hope to hit the £200,000 mark by the end of the year. I employ around ten staff now
Regards
Karl
Hi Guys
I have been reading this thread with interest as employing is something that I have thought about for sometime, but after reading some of the posts here I am not sure if I could afford to do so, 10 staff to turn over £200k, this dosn't seem like enough to me for 10 staff, I would expect far more, surely there cannot be much profit left for the owner after wages and expenses out of that 200k? I would guess that it would probably be less than many of us are earning on our own and without all the hassle! I would expect to be turning over £200k with half that amount of staff!!
I am not critisising in any way, I am generally very interested, is £200k really the max you could get out of your 10 staff, or could they handle a much higher workload as you take on more work?
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Hi
I answer to your question i employ 4 staff working 16 hours each and 6 part-time staff working between 2 and 10 hours per week and of course there is myself. So in reality I am operating with probably 4 full-time staff. I hope this answers your questions about profitability.
Regards
Karl
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Thanks Karl, that helps a lot! I can see a profit in it now!!! :)
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Whether there working part time or full time you still have a lot of overheads when you add it all up,this is what makes you think when you weigh it all up.I would expect a fully experiened WC to do at least 50k a year for me working a 30-40 hour week at least on there own,with a kitted out van holiday pay and all the other insurances etc that go with it he`s got to be around that figure for it to be worth while.I don`t know how much you pay and what work you do but as you know employing costs you money as well as makes you money.
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Hi NWH
My staff are charged out at £20.00 p/h and i pay £8.00 p/h
Thanks
Karl
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Based on your figures it sounds like your making the same if not slightly more than your paying which is the figure i would base it on,if i`m paying out £10 in wages i would expect the same amount for me for doing nothing ie employing them and providing equipment van etc.I think people under estimate what you need to earn in order for it to be worth while.
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Hi
I agree i was given a great costing template which calculates all your staffing and overhead costs and profit margin you require when quoting for a job. If you get the job then you know all your overheads etc have been accounted for.
Regards
Karl
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Hi
I agree i was given a great costing template which calculates all your staffing and overhead costs and profit margin you require when quoting for a job. If you get the job then you know all your overheads etc have been accounted for.
Would you be able to send that to any of us including me :) im looking at taking someone on in the next 8 weeks this would help me out alot.
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Hi
I answer to your question i employ 4 staff working 16 hours each and 6 part-time staff working between 2 and 10 hours per week and of course there is myself. So in reality I am operating with probably 4 full-time staff. I hope this answers your questions about profitability.
Regards
Karl
Hi Karl,
I am interested in your reasons for employing part time staff as opposed to full time, do you find that part time staff are more reliable, or is it easier to find staff to work part time?
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Groundhog,
I have found that it is necessary in service businesses to be able to scale up or down your capacity when your business demand it.
If I run a business that sell labour, which most of us do, at say 100 hours a week on average then I need two full timers and one part timer. But what happens when someone goes out sick or is on holidays or a client rings and says the want an extra done.
The right way to set your self up for 100 hours imo is 5/ 6 part-timer, they will all want more hours so that when you need them they are likely to say yes and if you lose one then no big deal get another one.
This means that you have a pool of available resources that can stretch or shrink as the circumstances require. Instead of you working for the staff they are working for you.
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Hi Bluez.
Do you have any problems finding part-time window cleaners?
Cheers.
Gary
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Hi Groundhog
I guess i have been lucky with staff and have a network of mums who only want to work 16 hours per week.This gives them flexibility in the school holidays and i have adhoc cleaners who will cover for them if the kids are off sick etc. They are all friends and when i need another cleaner i just ask and they recommend to me another mum who is lookin to earn some money. Tap in to the school mum network its a great source ;D
Regards
Karl
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Cas- man
My response was theoretical based on the question posed which was not just window cleaning based but contract cleaning as well.
I do however practice what I preach to an extent. I have 3 full time window cleaners who do Commercial work mainly and then I have a pool of part timers about 8 at the moment and I find it fairly easy to replace when necessary. Some weeks they all work full time and some they only have a few days depending on what is on. I try to spread the work as fairly as possible.
I dont think it is any harder to get part time window cleaners than any other job. Hope that helps.
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Hi Groundhog
I guess i have been lucky with staff and have a network of mums who only want to work 16 hours per week.This gives them flexibility in the school holidays and i have adhoc cleaners who will cover for them if the kids are off sick etc. They are all friends and when i need another cleaner i just ask and they recommend to me another mum who is lookin to earn some money. Tap in to the school mum network its a great source ;D
Regards
Karl
Great idea Karl, do these Mums clean windows or are they office cleaners? as most of the Mums I know are far too
posh to be seen cleaning windows!!!
You say that you charge your staff out at £20, is this for window cleaning, as to me it seems quite a low hourly rate!!
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Hi Groundhog
No these girls don't clean windows, but do EOT Cleaning, office cleaning, call centre cleaning, communal way cleaning etc.
Karl
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Groundhog,
I have found that it is necessary in service businesses to be able to scale up or down your capacity when your business demand it.
If I run a business that sell labour, which most of us do, at say 100 hours a week on average then I need two full timers and one part timer. But what happens when someone goes out sick or is on holidays or a client rings and says the want an extra done.
The right way to set your self up for 100 hours imo is 5/ 6 part-timer, they will all want more hours so that when you need them they are likely to say yes and if you lose one then no big deal get another one.
This means that you have a pool of available resources that can stretch or shrink as the circumstances require. Instead of you working for the staff they are working for you.
Thanks for that bluez, I don't know why I hadn't thought about employing 2 or 3 part timers instead of a full timer before! I think this is were many have gone wrong who have had problems with employing staff in the past.
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I totally agree with NWH. We took on loads of work and our employee knocked in £44K. He was on 45%.Got rid because quality of work was up and down. If he was at £50K we might have put up with it, but if you sit down and work out all the costs of employing £50K is a must in my opinion.
Chris
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I totally agree with NWH. We took on loads of work and our employee knocked in £44K. He was on 45%.Got rid because quality of work was up and down. If he was at £50K we might have put up with it, but if you sit down and work out all the costs of employing £50K is a must in my opinion.
Chris
Just out of curiosity, when you got rid of your employee, did he set up in business for himself afterwards?
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Hi all again..
sorry i have changed my name back again, ::)..
similar question to waynes really, but do any of you have your w/c s sign a contract , saying they cannot approach your customers, for 1.../...2 years etc....after leaving your company, or ever.
Cheers
gary.
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I totally agree with NWH. We took on loads of work and our employee knocked in £44K. He was on 45%.Got rid because quality of work was up and down. If he was at £50K we might have put up with it, but if you sit down and work out all the costs of employing £50K is a must in my opinion.
Chris
Just out of curiosity, when you got rid of your employee, did he set up in business for himself afterwards?
If you have a hard working sensible bit of brain about him window cleaner he`s gonna want £500 a week,take off all the other costs van- insurance-public liability-sick pay-holiday-extra nat ins-extra employers tax the list goes on, he will need to earn you at least what your paying him otherwise you might aswell be on your own.
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I totally agree with NWH. We took on loads of work and our employee knocked in £44K. He was on 45%.Got rid because quality of work was up and down. If he was at £50K we might have put up with it, but if you sit down and work out all the costs of employing £50K is a must in my opinion.
Chris
Just out of curiosity, when you got rid of your employee, did he set up in business for himself afterwards?
If you have a hard working sensible bit of brain about him window cleaner he`s gonna want £500 a week,take off all the other costs van- insurance-public liability-sick pay-holiday-extra nat ins-extra employers tax the list goes on, he will need to earn you at least what your paying him otherwise you might aswell be on your own.
i would want 3 times that to cover his costs and deductions
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I did say at least lol. ;D ;D
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I think it is a bit easier to work out the costs associated with employing if you do it by the hour rather than by the week.
Minimum wages for window cleaning €9.05
Holiday Pay @ 8% €0.72 approx
Prsi (nh ) 10%
Total cost per hour per employee €10.67
Labour cost €10.67 = 36%
Overheads €9.33 = 31%
Gross Profit €10.00 = 33%
Then instead of finding ways to figure out why it cant work you figure out ways to ensure that you have the volume of business required done to the standard required in the time allowed. One employee working 40 hours on this basis turns over 1200, earns 432 contributes 372 to overhead and generates 396 profit.
Sorry for the irish figures.
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hmmm, you guys are all basing your calculations on a 40hr week.
when was the last time any of us got a full week with no rain?
Didn't think so.
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Spreading the risks with employees is just as sound as not working 1 commercial contract full time.
This is the best thread i've read in ages.
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hmmm, you guys are all basing your calculations on a 40hr week.
when was the last time any of us got a full week with no rain?
Didn't think so.
Alan,
You only pay people for what they work not what they are off. I work in the rain anyway but it can and does slow you down so the point is a good one. We work 6 days, we work summer time anything up to 12 hours so you can see the 40 is just for example. If the weather is really bad I send them home but I don't pay them for it.
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hmmm, you guys are all basing your calculations on a 40hr week.
when was the last time any of us got a full week with no rain?
Didn't think so.
mine constantly do a 40 hour week mate, if they have to stop for a day they make it up somewhere along the line. if they don't thier bonuses are effected, its amasing what work gets done when peoples wages will be drasticlly reduced if its not done ;)
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Hi all again..
sorry i have changed my name back again, ::)..
similar question to waynes really, but do any of you have your w/c s sign a contract , saying they cannot approach your customers, for 1.../...2 years etc....after leaving your company, or ever.
Cheers
gary.
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To Wayne
Our ex employee is working as a labourer on the buildings. He was always short of money, loan sharks in the past,etc. Wouldn't have the capital to set himself up.
Chris
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I am not likely to employ at the moment..
But if i was,
Iwould probably give my staff incentive bonuses, and targets to reach. bonus related
i would also pay them a set figure , say £10 for each new customer they brought in and serviced for 3 months.
also if they reached ex amount of cleans per day.. they would have another bonus.
they would in my opinion , have something to aim for each day., rather than .. head down, and feeling aggreived that the boss is raking it in, (previous posts)
This is all of course if i ever get the chance. and the work merits it.
Gary