Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on March 20, 2008, 08:40:09 am

Title: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Moderator David@stives on March 20, 2008, 08:40:09 am
 Just read the small print that comes with a Varistream and it states that the warranty will NOT be honoured out of damage to the varistream or pump if you use MIcrobore hose.

The Varistream and sureflo pump are CLEARLY aimed at wfp users and everyone knows microbore is now standard for most users mostly at 100m

So why are they aiming these products at us knowing full well we use microbore , then copping out of the guarantee.   >:(

altogether i have bought 7 pumps and 7 varistreams, even reccommended them to others , so probably another few sales there.

Time to look for other options I think.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Alex Wingrove on March 20, 2008, 08:45:53 am
just buy a flojet pump,

i love the flow rate that it pumps through microbore
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Alex Gardiner on March 20, 2008, 08:50:57 am
The Flojet is a great pump and rarely needs any form of electronic control.

We do have another make of pump in testing that may prove to be a lot cheaper than the Flojet, but with the same robust quality and no need for a electronic flow control.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: DASERVICES on March 20, 2008, 09:11:25 am
Fully agree Dave, in this day and age of technoligy surely manufacturers would have designed a pump to cope with microbore.

Time to ditch I think, there are other pump manufacturers who I am sure would be happy to design a pump unique to the window cleaning industry.

There are two new names I have seen that seem to be looking into the market, looks like Alex is testing one of them.
 ;)
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: john tomkins on March 20, 2008, 11:20:50 am
Varistreams are good when they work ok, mine tend to have quite a few off days, what is the flow rate of the Flojet with say 60m microbore and 2mm pencil jets?
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Alex Gardiner on March 20, 2008, 01:18:39 pm
Varistreams are good when they work ok, mine tend to have quite a few off days, what is the flow rate of the Flojet with say 60m microbore and 2mm pencil jets?

The 60 psi Flojet is about 1.7 litres per minute with the above set up.  The 100 psi Flojet will give about 2.5 with the above set up.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: sunshine windows on March 20, 2008, 01:36:42 pm
Is there no flow control with the Flojet then???

Lance
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Alex Gardiner on March 20, 2008, 01:38:03 pm
Is there no flow control with the Flojet then???

Lance

No flow control, just a variable rate pressure switch.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: *foxman on March 20, 2008, 03:12:00 pm
Just read the small print that comes with a Varistream and it states that the warranty will NOT be honoured out of damage to the varistream or pump if you use MIcrobore hose.

The Varistream and sureflo pump are CLEARLY aimed at wfp users and everyone knows microbore is now standard for most users mostly at 100m

So why are they aiming these products at us knowing full well we use microbore , then copping out of the guarantee.   >:(

altogether i have bought 7 pumps and 7 varistreams, even reccommended them to others , so probably another few sales there.

Time to look for other options I think.

I've got a feeling that this disclaimer is against the law. Need to look into it further, might come under the not fit for purpose thing. The Varistream is designed for window cleaners and it is well know and perfectly reasonable that it might be used in conjuction with microbore - so they haven't a leg to stand on. Bring on Trading standards!
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: jeff1 on March 20, 2008, 07:16:49 pm
I put up a post a couple of weeks back regarding the guarantee for the backpack, there altered and sold to w/c  but the guarantee is Nil & Void for w/c,  it seems there all jumping on the band wagon
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: alanwilson on March 20, 2008, 07:22:21 pm
well don't you think williamson pumps have fallen flat on their face especially as EVERY wfp'er uses microbore - on the poles!!

As far as I know every pole sold in the UK comes with 5/6mm tubing.

Clearly Williamson Pumps haven't thought this through and should come up with the goods instead of trying to dodge problems with their own 'purpose built' equipment.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: dai on March 20, 2008, 08:46:40 pm
To be fair to Williamsons, the Varistream was never designed to work with micro bore.
Remember it is also in affect the pressure switch.
When you stop the flow, a back pressure builds up and draws more amps from the battery, this increased amperage is sensed by the Varistream and it switches off the pump as it's designed to do.

When you have an unrestricted pump running, as you do with the pump pressure switch removed, everything works fine until that back pressure builds up, and this is what happens with micro bore,
the smaller bore, especially when coiled on a reel builds up a lot of back pressure, the Varistream cannot sense if this is you turning off the flow, or back pressure that's built up running through your system, it will turn your pump off, and as pressure drops, back on again.

It is this rapid cycling that does the damage.

It's hard to see how any device that measures the demand on amperage can overcome this problem.
How do you make a device that will overcome the back pressure, without blowing your connectors off when you want to stop the flow?
You could go back to using the bypass method in conjunction with a pressure relief valve, but that won't stop your pump from running when you stop the flow, so no saving on battery drain.
It's a hard one to crack. Dai
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: alanwilson on March 20, 2008, 08:50:11 pm
ok dai but the fact is the 8000 series pumps and the varistreams are designed for window cleaners and all poles have 5mm tubing.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Wayne Thomas on March 20, 2008, 09:00:08 pm
I'm still using my first Mk 1 varistream from over 5 years ago.
I've gone through several pumps but not the varisteam.
I had lots of problems using varistream with shureflow 100psi with 100m microbore but not with minibore as there's less build up of pressure. I've used 250m of minibore on jobs in the past with no problems but had lots of problems using microbore over 120m.
Never had any problems using Flojet 95psi / 100psi pumps without a varistream fitted either.

Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: dai on March 20, 2008, 09:03:01 pm
The friction/drag/back pressure of water is nothing on a pole hose compared to 100 meters of micro bore coiled on a reel.
I only use 25 meters of micro bore on my trolley system, but there's no way I can run the Varistream flat out without cycling, I wouldn't want to work without it, although it has it's limitations.
It's one for the boffins mate. Dai
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: alanwilson on March 20, 2008, 09:07:59 pm
yes dai, poles only have 10m or so of tubing, however they state that it isn't to be used with microbore - its a legal thing, we use 90m of microbore on our reels without any probs but if williamson pumps knew that they wouldn't stand by their product, but someone using half inch hose is still breaking the warranty conditions because of the tubing on the pole.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: scud on March 20, 2008, 10:29:33 pm
I'm still using my first Mk 1 varistream from over 5 years ago.
I've gone through several pumps but not the varisteam.
I had lots of problems using varistream with shureflow 100psi with 100m microbore but not with minibore as there's less build up of pressure. I've used 250m of minibore on jobs in the past with no problems but had lots of problems using microbore over 120m.
Never had any problems using Flojet 95psi / 100psi pumps without a varistream fitted either.




  I had a varistream MK1 from the first batch released, this was only 3 years ago - it is still going strong with the shurflo 60 psi pump that is 4 years old, they have been running through 100m of microbore for 3 years with no problems.
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Moderator David@stives on March 20, 2008, 10:40:16 pm
If mfrs are coming in on the wfp market , they must accept what comes with it.

It is a bit like saying Bosch wont guarantee there drills if you drill through high density breeze blocks.

Come on Williamsons, have confidence, and guarantee your products.

Dave
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: pjulk on March 20, 2008, 11:05:33 pm
easiest and least troublesome way it to just buy a flojet no need for a varistream then.


Paul
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: DASERVICES on March 20, 2008, 11:07:54 pm
Whats the guarantee on a Flojet then, I know someone who had one only lasted a year plus needed a new switch!
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: DASERVICES on March 29, 2008, 08:29:35 pm
Dave,

Spoke to Williamson's.

To cut a long story short, Shurflo will not design a product specific to the window cleaning industry needs as we are just a very small portion of their sales. The current pump has just been slightly modified to meet our needs.

The guarantee will only cover you if there is a design fault, not if the fault has occured during use because the pump is not designed to pump water through di vessels and microbore as the pressure is too great.

Doug
Title: Re: Williamson pumps ---Varistream
Post by: Glyn H on March 30, 2008, 02:13:24 am
We stoped supplying shurflos seven years ago because of the problems they were prone too.