Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: drive surgeon on March 19, 2008, 09:34:18 pm
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been asked to quote a massive job which includes a mile of paving, and nearly a hudred parking bays, also they have 2 other sites and said if they are happy with the price i could do them too or it could be a contract, as i have not got any contracts and im a one man band it seems a bit daunting. i only have a small van still so the firdst thing that springs to mind is water supply and access to water, i dont think i could even attempt this without a bowser to carry 1000ltrs and this will only give me an hour or so supply, would i have to stop every hour to fill up from some supply? do you guys pay the council to use their water from a stand pipe? what if there are no stand pipes near were you are working?
because the job is so big i just think i would keep running out of water cos i could not feed the tank whilst going along cleaning the long paths. ???
do i still charge per square metre or per day? it will be crazy trying to measure it all, and if they offer me to put in for a contract to clean their properties where do i start? sounds silly me saying all this but im only gradually getting into the commercial scene as most of my work is domestic, i wont sleep tonight thinking about it????
any help would be great and much appreciated/ :)
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To use the fire hydrants in the street you need a licence from the relevant water authority IE united utilities in Wigan. You have to pay up front for it plus you have to buy a "key", It's an atatchment to fix into the hydrant after lifting lid. and a tool for opening the valve, you can fit a garden type tap and use 3/4 hose but you can adapt for any size you like so if you choose say 4 inch bsp and a lenght of 4 inch layflat hose you can fill a 1000 litres in about 5 mins (drop 4 inch hose in through the big screw lid)
You HAVE to carry:
The licence
Stand pipe and key
Steralising solution to water board specs to steralise the water conection to prevent public poisining via supply
And the board want your vehicle registration and the serial number of the plant you are useing the licence for (this is to prevent multiple uses of 1 licence
And they do carry out spot checks
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as drivewasher says you will need a licence for the standpipe.
another thing to consider is the times that the work can be carried out if it is a high pedestrian area it will have to be done at night so you would need to light the area with lights and a generator .
as in smaller jobs check for drainage too as some large retail parks have very poor drainage.
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are there any outside taps nearby?
If there is no water supply on the site(inclding fire hydrants) this will affect your price, as the job will take a lot longer if you need to keep refilling your tank.
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not been to look at it yet but i just after advice, do you guys take water from under the ground and pay the council?? or do you just use another source? you see its a big row of student houses with parking bays and the owner wants it cleaned up. so i can hardly ask people can i use their water from each house as it will be in the day and they will be out. i need to know more about this council water stuff. united utilities. ???
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i have never needed one, but a friend of mine uses one.
It costs about £30 a month for unlimited water
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drivesurgeon ive got a large van with two tanks 1400lts willing to sub my services to you if your interested ,got all the gear diesel presure washer flat surface cleaner etc give me a call 07731441010 rob
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Sound like you get Rob to price it all up and do the job for you and you just add on a "finders fee" of 15% to the total. That way everyone wins....
Regards
Mr H
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hi,
as any of the homes got water butts? or hire a water bower. or if its not far to travel bottom off a water tank and fill it up.
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I know it is going to take time, but I would really go and measure the site.
With that many car parking bays, there is going to be oil stains, so how many and how bad are they etc?. Check where the water/stand pipe positions are, then work out hose lengths etc, do you need more hose? Where is the waste water going to go? What is the surface, block or just concrete? On a job this size people will be watching etc, so cover yourself on this issue. Get on to your local water company, check price and whats what for stand-pipe licence. Now can you do this job on your own, or will you have to sub some out? If you sub-out what price do the subbies want per day, and how many metres a day can they clean. also will one stand pipe feed say 2-3 machines? A job this size needs some home work and thought.
Good Luck.
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cheers guys, i have never subbed any work out before! ???
shall i just ask a company to price it up and add on my fee and then send the quote to the boss?
sometimes i wonder if some jobs are just too big, im only a 1 man band,
hey roger do you have people working for you or are you a 1 man band too?
obvoiusly i need the money like anyone, they might be getting a few quotes for all i know but they might offer a contract to the people who get the job so i got to think here quick.
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Have one full time person with me. Might need to put a second machine/truck out later this year.
When I was saying sub-out, I meant for them to work along side you unless you want to sub the whole job out, I would be careful doing that as you might loose any future work from the client to the sub-contarctor if they are cheaper etc. If it was me, do as I advised earlier, put a quote together with your finding's and costs from my above post & submit it to the cilent. You are going to need to know prices of the sub-contratctor before you do all this and are you happy to work with them etc. Remember H&S and Risk docs would need to be done seeing as it is a commmercial job.
Go for it Jamie you have nothing to loose, but everything to gain at this stage.
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Drive surgeon i ment i would help you on the job if you needed me ,if you think its to big a job for one man and machine .If not good look dont do it to cheap and take a good look at the job dont forget to take lots of photos ,Walk round with the client get a feel of what he expects from you, make sure you get your payment terms in writing as it seems doing the job is the easy part these days geting your money on time is not .
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roger what h&s things do i need? if im doing it on my own do i need these? ???
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you dont need the documents unless you are asked for them. But i assume you have PL wich is a must really.
Dont be scared of big jobs. I just took on on a few weeks back, my first "big" job nd it was a bit daunting, but it was the best job I have ever done!
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Yes you do need them, even if you are on your own for this one.
The basic's are a H&S method statement, how are you going to do the work, what precauitons are you taking to protect the public etc. Are you using any chemicals (even oil stain degreaser's) need to be listed. If people are working with you what safety (PPE First aid etc) will they be using and are you supplying it etc. Re-fueling machines, how and where are you doing this.
It is pretty basic stuff, a lot of common sense is needed, each site will be different, that is why you need to look at the site and check everything, not only what you will be cleaning but the things written above, esp public safety side of things.
The Risk assessment is what it is, an assessment of the work and the risk to one and all. Do you have a template to work with?
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Yes you do need them, even if you are on your own for this one.
The basic's are a H&S method statement, how are you going to do the work, what precauitons are you taking to protect the public etc. Are you using any chemicals (even oil stain degreaser's) need to be listed. If people are working with you what safety (PPE First aid etc) will they be using and are you supplying it etc. Re-fueling machines, how and where are you doing this.
It is pretty basic stuff, a lot of common sense is needed, each site will be different, that is why you need to look at the site and check everything, not only what you will be cleaning but the things written above, esp public safety side of things.
The Risk assessment is what it is, an assessment of the work and the risk to one and all. Do you have a template to work with?
I believe you can do a mental risk assessment cant you? It doesnt have to be on paper for every job unless they ask for it.
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hey roger no i dont have a template i could do with one please, anyone who has one please mail it to me at fod393@aol.com and i will be very greatfull.
it is a bit daunting. rog do you employ your colleague on a casual thing or fully employed.? i need to get contracts with guaranteed income before i employ anyone. i need to get my big van first too if i get this job, would have to get it right away. i feel a bit daft going to see thiss boss without the right gear to do the job, like a van with a tank in. i could always hire a bowser with pressure washer on it from a hire shop i suppose. i got to start somwhere i suppose, im not going to say to the boss i aint got the gear or he will look elsewhere, i need to get the job and then get the gear to do it. it aint easy!! :o
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if you employ under 5 employees then the risk assesment doesnt have to be written down but with a job this size i am sure the company employing you will ask for one and you will look very un professional if you dont supply one.
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I believe you can do a mental risk assessment cant you? It doesnt have to be on paper for every job unless they ask for it.
Ricky,
I have never heard of a Mental risk assessment, maybe there is such a thing.
Might work on domestic cleaning/property.
But with this being, from what I have read, student accomadation & parking spaces, sounds like a LA will be involved somewhere so yes a H&S and Risk Ass. will need to be produced.
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it is a bit daunting. rog do you employ your colleague on a casual thing or fully employed.?
Full Time
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whats a la?
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Local Authority - council
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yeah, it makes sense to use the right docs on a job this size and type.
I was just saying it isnt always a neccessity.
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think im gonna get a measuring wheel to measure it all up, some of the paths are a metre and a half wide and go on for ages all round the site, i cant say im not worried about it all i tell you. i want the work but i suppose its a lot to takeon at once, who knows, maybe i could do it myself bit by bit unless they have a timescale. ??? :-\
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if you employ under 5 employees then the risk assesment doesnt have to be written down but with a job this size i am sure the company employing you will ask for one and you will look very un professional if you dont supply one.
Hello Trevor
I didn't know that, the 5 employees or less rule, is that a H&S rule/directive?
Don't take this the wrong way it is not aimed at you, but I did a job for British Airways last year (Heathrow airport) and after I did the test clean, and got the job, before we could start I had to submit risk and method statements, I was working on my own, so could I have used the 5 employees or less rule I don't think so, in my view H&S is a good thing except it is some little s**t with no experiance making it up as they go along.
In a past life, I used to put events together, and had to produce a document for dropping 6 million sun-dried rose leaf's (couldn't use poppies) from 1000ft out of two ww2 aircrafts over the river thames for the poppy day celebrations , it was a 14 page document on the dangers of them falling on the pavments and car windscreens. TFL and Westminster council admited they didn't even bother to read them, but the event went ahead anyway.
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hi roger
yes it is an health and safety directive that it only has to be written down if you employ 5 or more but if you employ less than this you still have to have them but they dont have to be written.
having said that if you apply for a large job and you dont supply them i bet your qoute would end up in the bin so better to be safe than try and argue with the safety oofficer.
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Obviously it's horses for courses. less than 5 and your in a private garden then unwritten.
If you get a job in a commercial premisis then you would have to comply with their H&S policy and that would me a written one.
I believe that when I go price a job then as I do so i am risk assessing whilst I'm there, at least on domestic work
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hi roger
having said that if you apply for a large job and you dont supply them i bet your qoute would end up in the bin so better to be safe than try and argue with the safety oofficer.
Hi Trevor,
Agree with you there, you would not get a look-in
On any job that is either commercial or in a public area we'll produce a risk assessment and H&S doc including MSDS sheets. I won't produe them at the quoting stage, but once the job is confirmed they are done straight away.
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jesus there is a lot to this commercial lark, im only learning as most of my work is just domestic stuff. its daunting. ???
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i have done some commercial work and needed to subit a risk assessment, method statement and COSHH sheets, but for some big commercial even, I have asked them if they would like the documents for them to say they didnt need it.
Each case is different I guess.
One job i had, i had to give a risk assessment, method statement and one of their own forms to clean out some guttering!!
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i dont know whether to meet the boss in a suit or just my work polo shirt and jeans and shoes? bearing in mind it could be a massive job or maybe a contract.
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dont go in a suit go in your work gear be yourself and dont bulsh-t you will only trip yourself up, just go for it nothing ventured nothing gaind ;)
cheers mick
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dont go in a suit go in your work gear be yourself and dont bulsh-t you will only trip yourself up, just go for it nothing ventured nothing gaind ;)
cheers mick
i agree,
Dont "oversell" yourself.
Just make sure you are clean and tidy, polite, and maybe make him laigh a little bit. You want him to like you.
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might be worth while offering to do a demonstration patch , when ever i have done this i have always got the job.
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been to see the job, the boss did not come with me he just gave me a map and told me to visit the sites, which i thought was a bit stupid really, its all block paving and flagged areas. could only see one tap and i need 200 yards of hose to do the one stretch. pricing it up is going to be a nightmare, he wants the job started in a month . im just thinking can i do the job on my own or with my dads help or whether too take someone else on cash in hand to start with, i dont know what im going to do about my domestic calls as this will be taking all my time up, i would say it will be full time for ages if i get it. and i have not got a clue about sub contracting and i dont know whether i would trust anyone else doing my work for me as im a perfectionist with my jobs.
too much to think of ??? :(
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if you need any help i will help you.mark
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got to measure it all up tomoro but its ment to be belting down. will take me a day easy to measure one site up. :(
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hi guys, measured it all up approx, it came in at around 3,618 sq m. :o :o
this included, paving ( blocks, flags, tarmac ) walls, parking bays, and bricks that were green on the houses. its going to take some time but the boss said he is getting 3 quotes one of which is mine. not sure yet if he wants the blockpaving re-sanding afterwards. can always offer that as an extra service to the cleaning price. cos i mainly do domestic, my prices are pretty cheap, like £1.00 per sq metre. shall i bump it up to £1.50, or £2.00 a sq m? im going to need to add on cement remover and oil remover to clean the parking bays. he wants the job starting in a month but think he wants the two sites done by september, this is just one. so im thinking i could do it with two people ( me and my dad ) to start and see how we get on. i wont be able to do my domestic jobs tho unless i work 7 days or in the evenings, . who knows i prob wont get it anyway but im keeping my fingers crossed. im going to hand the quote to the boss personnaly with pictures of my other commercial work and tell him i can start the work within the week as im hoping the others might not be able to start so soon, i need to be positive. god i would love to see how much the other guys are charging. prob twice my price?? but it all depends on how many people they have doing it i suppose. its all new to me. any advice.? ??? ;)
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i wouldnt go in too low.
Cement and oil will take a bit of time to get up.
I personally think £1 per metre is quite cheap. i'd say about 1.5 per metre would be better.
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hi richy, yes i was thinking of around £1.50 a sq m, only tiny bit of oil but around 5 sq metres of cement welded to tarmac parking bay, i was going to put brick acid on to loosen it and then try blast it off but i might need something to break it off first?? its not easy putting quotes in, especially if you want the work quite bad, i worry about allsorts. i always to as good a job as possible and he will see some great before and after pics in my quote so im just hoping. still got to work it all out over weekend. :-\
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for removing cement, you will need the acid, but when removing it from walls i use a hammer to, to losen it up a bit. im not sure about using acid on tarmac though. id check that out if i was you to make sure it is ok.
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yes i know acid can do damage to tarmac but if i just leave it on for a small while im hoping it will be ok, its just on the tarmac i need to remove it from. the walls are just green in patches. anyone else know whats best to remove cement from tarmac?
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Please consider asking for a fifty percent deposit, or staggered payment where you work for a set number of days and then get paid for the work completed before commencing more work.
Getting payment may prove to be harder than the work you do !
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does anyone else ask for 50% deposit? wont they just say p off? ???
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does anyone else ask for 50% deposit? wont they just say p off? ???
No I don't think they will tell you to p**s-off, witha job of this size, what £5K and above, I think you should ask for somehing up-front once you both have dotted the "Is" and crossed the "T's" has to what you will do and when etc.
You will have outlay, fuel, staff, chemicals etc, so why should you front the job?
Just my view, others may differ.
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if i get offered the job i might ask them, still taking ages to sort the quotes out. ::)
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I dont think it would be unreasonable to split the job into quarters and ask for 25% at the end of each quarter.
That way you will avoid a big hit if they went bump etc.
just my 2 penneth!
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might do that steve. ;)
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quote gone in finally, now worrying time, i would not have a clue what the other 2 quotes were like, i dont know if im to dear or too cheap. i really could do with this job, im keeping my fingers and toes crossed. shall i ring them in a week to ask them if they have looked at it?
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i would.
like you said, leave it a week though, give them a bit of time.
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no resonse after a week now, :( :(, its always the same on commercial quotes. out of the three quotes i would not a have the slightest clue if i was the dearest or cheapest, either way could put them off. im only a one man band with occasional help but a big company could have charged twice the price, who knows. i will have to call them i suppose as usual chasing up the quote. :-[
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what-ever happens,you have got some good input into pricing a big job so even if you dont get it dont be dis-hearted,great information and loads of good advise please let us know the out-come either way thanks to all the ppl on this site and good luck mate.
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will let you know then, thanks, domestic jobs are far easier to win!
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phoned them up and he said he has been off and has not had chance to look at the quote, should i take this as a positive after a week or is it just an excuse, i suppose he could be waiting for other quote to come in. hate waiting ???
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Whatever happened to this jjob - did u get it? ???
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Where did you drag this old thread out from ? April 2008 :o :o :o