Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mark@Eco-Powerclean on December 16, 2004, 12:08:32 pm
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Hi people. I'm facing a mid-life crisis, and have decided to get out of the city rat-race and become my own boss! I can see there's been loads of previous 'I'm starting up in business' posts before, but I can't see any along the lines of franchise v own business, so I hope this is a new slant on the favourite old question.
I've decided that I really like the idea of carpet & upholstery cleaning, but as it's nothing like what I've done before, I think I really ought to get into the business through the franchise route. The questions I have are (and sorry for having so many, but hey, you guys must surely be the best to answer them):-
The two companies I'm looking at are ChemDry and Hydro-Dynamix. Which would you recommend in terms of value for money and return on investment?
One of these companies gives you a large territory where there are several already established franchisees operating in the area, while the other gives you a smaller, but exclusive, area. If you had the choice, which would you go for?
Have people who have previously bought into these franchises been satisfied with the results, and did they match up to the potential earnings figures supplied by the relevant company?
How effective and professionally run were the initial training courses, and if like me, you had no previous experience in this field, did you feel confident to go out and perform cleaning jobs immediately afterwards?
This is a large investment for me, and while I'm prepared to put in as much hard work as is necessary to make it work, would I be flogging a dead horse with either or both?
H-D use the truck mount system, so am I right in thinking there is greater diversity with this system (e.g. graffitti removal, canopy cleaning) and the potential for generating business is better?
And finally, should I perhaps say sod it to both, save my franchise fee, go on some training courses and start up independently, and not be tied down to areas?
Thanks to anyone who bothers to reply. I now know what I want to do, but remain completely confused as to how I should do it. :-\
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Hi Newbie
Where are you based, some information on your profile would be a good idea people may respond with more info if they can see your not just fishing
Best regards Nick
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Hi Nick.
Thanks for your reply. I'm based in Cambridgeshire. I was thinking of putting some personal information on my profile, but having looked through this forum, I've noticed that both comapnies seem to have access to it, and I don't want to give too much away that may identify myself to them at this stage.
As I've been sent details from both companies (and a couple of others which I've discounted) they both seem excellent opportunities, but then they would, wouldn't they? ;) I'm really no nearer to making a choice between either, because on the basis of what I've seen and heard they both seem like the best thing since sliced bread. I'm sure there must be some downsides to this franchising business and I'd love to be made aware of from anyone who's been in the position of buying a franchise.
Sorry if I can't satisfy you that I'm not fishing, but REALLY I'm not. I desperatley need some advice on which (if either) would be the best in terms of the return on my investment, and in particular if what they tell you you could earn in the first year can be taken at face value. I've never done anything like this before, so I need to be reassured that parting with such large sums isn't going to be money down the drain n matter how hard I try to make it work.
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I preusme that both companies will, if you're serious, provide you with a full list of franchisees so that you can ring them up and ask them? Alternatively you could look on Yell.com and find them yourself.
Cheers
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Newbie
Have you considered starting up on your own, without the backing of a franchise ?
Why not see if you can spend some time with an experienced carpet cleaner and book yourself on a training course.
There is alot of information on these forums regarding equipment and chemicals to enable you to do a bit of research.
Manufacturers also have technical help lines that can offer advice if you experience a problem.
I have previous experience of franchises (not carpet cleaning) and found that you are tied in to their products and pay them a percentage of your profit.
In the long run you may find that you have more freedom, your costs aren`t as high and you get a higher percentage of profit.
Just an alternative view. T.hink I better sit down in a darkened room and forget about franchises, I can feel the blood pressure rising
Cheers :)
Richard
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I would just like to say that a guy who now works for me, Paid large amount of money for carpet, and upholstery franchise on South Coast. He showed me receipts for his first months trading, he worked from 6.30 am in the morning up to most evenings after travelling 1900 hrs. Also work he got direct from customers on jobs He was only entitled to a commission. For he’s first and only month as franchise he took home £700 after expenses. I still have the job sheets and info to prove this if needed. My suggestion is do what I done 20 years ago. Place adverts in Yellow pages, good quality business card, take some courses. Do a good job; work hard, and you will save thousands with these franchises? That are full of promises, you can purchase a good quality machine And training and adverts, for less than a cost of these franchises. Perhaps there is a franchise that pays well but I have yet to find it. and today you have the exerience of these guys on this forum that i must say do a fantastic job, and wish them a good xmas
and new year
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If it ws me and I had £20k or whatever it costs to buy a Franchise I would rather spend it on a top of the range Truck Mount, decent van, good training and some proper advertising & go it alone.
First couple of years are difficult, dont expect big turnover but after that you should be OK when the recommendations/Repeat business kicks in.
Cant say I have ever heard good things about franchising, but Iam not saying too much in case big brother is watching.
Phone up a few Chem-dry Franchises and ask them their opinions, not for us non-franchise business to say really.
Phil
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Chris
You are obviously very bitter for whatever reason but I would seriously urge you to look at your last post again as you are leaving yourself wide open to litigation by making statements like that.
Regards
Derek
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Derek
them old fingers are getting quick in your old age, you beat me to it ;D
expect a visit from mr chem-dry's big brother boys, any moment now ::)
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A wheelie bin franchise has set up in my area and the chap is not a happy bunny.He is working from 7am till late collecting his days money,he has £1400 per month to find for his franchise he said he is only taking £1300 with a promise they will find him some more customers.I looked at many cc franchises and decided against it for similar reasons monthly payments but no guarantees about the amount of work they would find you.Go it alone get some proper training and take on board what is posted on these boards
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Been there ... Done it...... Wouldn't touch franchises with a barge pole >:(
Steve
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Hi Chris
you obviously have issues and many on here would sympathise but you must be careful what you post especially if you are going to court.
I looked at Chem-Dry a long while ago and I wouldn't touch it having said that I know 3 chem dry franchisees and they are all doing very well and some of the best trained guys you could come across, although not all their training was done through Chem-Dry ;)
Iv'e lost touch with how they operate now although I do know that they offered the insurance companies the world to win their business and lot of your former collegues could simply not deliver as the standards were to rigorous to operate at a profit under,did you find this was the case?
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I had a franchise in the late 80's (NOT CARPET CLEANING). After I had paid all the fees the friendly and helpful franchisor turned into my worst enemy. Bill after bill arrived and they knew my sales levels meant I couldnt pay them. I was even threatened with physical violence by one of the directors - 'we know where you live and I have hard friends......' I surrendered the franchise but the refund cheque bounced into outer space.
You have more chance of making money by putting it on the lottery than a franchise.
I am in the same position as you and I plan to go it alone with the help of this excellent website and the helpful people who use it.
Good luck
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Hi Guys,
I've always thought of franchises as a halfway house.
The best is if you can suceed alone , but if you don't feel confident a franchise might be the the way.
The trouble as I see it is once you become confident and want to go on your own , they are hard to shake off.
Cheers,
Doug
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Thanks to everyone who replied. So I take it franchising isn't all it's cracked up to be then? ;)
Seriously though, thanks to everyone who replied and confirmed my worst fears. I'm sure there are some franchises which work, but I think I will certainly invest the £20k or so into setting up my own business. The only thing I need to do now is get some training and experience.
I'll try to get on the next NCCA training course in February, and in the meantime try to get some experience by working with an established carpet cleaning firm. So, to take the advice of someone above, er........does anyone know of a carpet cleaning company in the Cambridgeshire, Suffolk or North Essex areas who'd like to take on a rookie to help out free of charge for a while purely to learn the ropes? Sorry if I'm being a bit cheeky here but I suppose it's worth a try. ;D
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Hi
I was in exactly your predicament a year ago, did loads of research. I decided to go alone. The support and training available in this industry from suppliers, organisations (Proclean, NCCA), and forums like this is terrific. I am sure i chose the right route for me.
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Over the last 2 years at the NCCA conference, I have had the pleasure of spending some time with a very knowledgeable, capable and successful colleague (I've witheld name and location).
This gentleman had quite a few successful carpet cleaning areas for one of the leading franchises. Lucrative and successful he was. I, and many others too, have noticed that the franchises were heavily into fire and flood and earning good (maybe too much?) money. Margins are now tighter and it would appear that the person baring most of the brunt is the franchisee. In our conversations, this colleague I mentioned above gradually sold off his areas and is now an independant. He's been honest and not taken his clients or database with him, started completely afresh but obviously with intimate knowledge of the industry gained from his time as a franchisee. Speaking to him this year, in light of all his experiences, independant is the way to go in this changing marketplace. Starting from scratch as a one man business, his turnover is into 6 figures (5 noughts) in less than one year, and no, he's not truckmounted. There's another member of this(?) forum who is also an excellent businessman who is in his first year with T/M and into serious turnover. To be successful to this degree you need many of the technical skills essential to our industry, but more importantly you need to be very good at the sales and marketing side of business.
A good franchise should give you all the skills and information you require and be supportive in all areas. Go independant and you need to research and complete all tasks yourself. My suggestion would be that if you want to be a one man band without the hassle and stress of employees, get trained, buy the kit and use something like direct letterbox marketing. If you prefer to be a carpet cleaning tycoon with multiple units and staff, again go independant and do something like Fast Track from Alltec.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Hi Newbie,
Check out Alltec a Cambridge based company (Royston) who can supply all the equipment from Portables to Truck Mounts, Training with a qualification, Chemicals and solutions, and marketing programme that can take a new starter to big bucks quickly if applied with conviction. www.alltec.co.uk
Dave.
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I personal don’t like franchisors don’t have a problem with franchisees, what I cant understand why insurance companies award contracts out at £8 mil and expect a claw back of £2 mil.
Who’s the winner and loser I wonder! I would say it’s defiantly is not the one doing the work. Far too many fingers in the pie before the franchisee him/her get paid, then you have to look at the capital investment, which is needed!
Regarding the other company you mentioned believe a change has taken place may be worth a deeper look and what ever avenue you choose get a good solicitor who knows franchising!
Roger
I was in the same boat so-called threats until he new I was a Millwool supporter.
Len
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Many thanks for the advice, Dave and Ken. I was actually checking out that website after Ken's post while you were replying Dave.
Alltec seem to cover just about everything as far as training goes, and it says their courses are held in Hertfordshire which isn't very far away, so I'm really keen. I'll definitely give them a call in the morning.
I know you must all be sick of me asking questions, so I promise this is the last one....maybe. ;) As a newcomer, would I be a bit ambitious in starting with a truck mount system or would you recommend that I start with a top of the range portable?
Cheers guys. At last I've actually found somewhere where I can receive great, unbiased advice, and am I glad I found it.
Len
A Lions man? Don't suppose you'd have any problems with them then. Me, I'm an O's fan. Tell anyone you support the Orient and they'll walk all over you. :(
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I have been in a franchise for 6yrs and just got out of it one month ago. Although my businness was reasonably good and my knowledge on cleaning carpets was Ok my business was not reaching its financial potential so I walked.
The problem with a franchise is you are tied in to a contract which means you do things their way & you pay quite handsomely for that.
There is nothing a franchise can teach you that going on a good course and keeping an eye on this sight (its a mine of information and its free)
Can;t believe the proffit I have made this month.
Im not bitter Im better
Davy
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I have 9 CD's in my area I think Mike has more but when i was talking to one of the more honest ones he said his turnover was less than mine and he had 3 technicians and he occasionally went out himself.
Shaun
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Newbie
I may have been brought up in that area and support them possible due to Dad local team, but I don’t like football nether do I like or stand for, threats or any type of intimidation!
Only one word of advice care with licensing or franchising, be warned is to be for warned.
CD seem to be into ff more them cc
Len
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Newbie,
Ask as many questions as you want!
If you are going to splash out £20k+ you want the correct information.
Phone Alltec, as you say its near you, go on their Discovery day.
Its not for us to say what equipment you purchase, You need to know yourself if CC is what you really want, no good spending £1000's then realising its not for you.
One thing is for sure though, dont take the Franchise route.
By the way Iam a big Luton fan, and we are going up!!!
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Statistically franchises are more likekly to succeed after 1 year in trade, may be it is because head office is mentoring/ pushing you but the systems are tried and tested.
The biggest test is after 3 or 4 years when you are up and running and are now savvy with cash flow, sales, and general business making decissions that you need them and would you have been better spending that 20K+ (20K being for the franchise not the van) on marketing yourself and not have the ongoing franchise fees until you give it up or die.
Fasttrack would be my advice to anyone starting up because it works like a franchise but with no money up front you can pay for it over 12 months and then thats it your free.
Shaun
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Hi
Been a franchisee also and it turned out to be a nightmare, this particular company were about as helpful as a third armpit! and I went down faster than 'The Red Baron in Flames'
Chris
If you want to have a rant but don't want court action then put ' In my opinion'
before your particular rant.
Regards
Martin 8)
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Goesltd
I understand your frustration I have done so in the past being a franchisee, my words to them, think of an nightmare then you better treble it!
I’m sure your solicitor has advised you to keep stum as it will not help you with you case, if they haven’t change them a.s.a.p
By the way if you win the case or not you will have a gagging clause!
I think my views regarding franchisors are well know, don’t get mad get even, just make sure you dot the I’s and cross the t’s
Morals don’t come into to business! But I would like to think so!
By the way I’m not say you should not rant but care is needed!
Len
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Hi
I also understand your bitterness BUT putting your comments in writing publically will only make the situation far worse.
I still say alter your posts, it may be too late.
There are other ways of dealing with what you consider unfair practices which will NOT get you into deeper hot water
Regards
Derek
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Hi Guys,
I have deleted 2 of goesltd's posts as I think they are the wrong way to go about this sort of thing.I have given this a lot of thought this morning and it was a tough decision.
Chris has obviously had a rough time and my thoughts go out to him and his family at this time of year.
Cheers,
Doug
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Doug
You made the correct decision.
Len
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Doug,
I agree that it is the wrong way to go about things, but, as a moderator, the decision is never easy. The balancing the right of free speech with the need to protect the forum from involvement in possible litigation can be tricky.
Emotive phrases like 'big brother' are apt to be bandied about by some, but like Len, I support your action.
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Hi,
Thanks Guys,
I did send Chris a personal message wishing him all the best in the tough circumstances he is in , and also explaining , hopefully, my reasoning.
Cheers,
Doug