Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 06:28:06 pm

Title: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 06:28:06 pm
take a look t this guy, this is an accident waiting to happen, a member sent this into the training academy  ::)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/carter1.jpg)

(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/carter.jpg)
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: MSTAV on March 10, 2008, 06:29:32 pm
lol..that is soooo funny...lol  ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Mr H on March 10, 2008, 06:36:58 pm
I hope midlands health and safety see that and close him down or at least fine him...
He's breaking so many regs......

Regards
Mr H
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: nat on March 10, 2008, 06:38:20 pm
what people will do to save money on buying a bigger pole  ;)
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: NWH on March 10, 2008, 06:38:58 pm
He can`t afford a long enough pole,either that or he`s to tight to buy one.It`s probobly the highest work he has so feels a longer pole is not worth the money.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: LWC on March 10, 2008, 06:40:13 pm
He can`t afford a long enough pole,either that or he`s to tight to buy one.It`s probobly the highest work he has so feels a longer pole is not worth the money.

here here
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Wayne Thomas on March 10, 2008, 06:42:56 pm
Doesn't do his image or reputation any good. What an idiot, no regard for Health & Safety.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Alex Wingrove on March 10, 2008, 06:43:37 pm
I hope midlands health and safety see that and close him down or at least fine him...
He's breaking so many regs......

Regards
Mr H

what ones?
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: LWC on March 10, 2008, 06:44:17 pm
couldnt say he was ladderless could ya
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Mr H on March 10, 2008, 06:44:32 pm
Makes no difference.... Still breaking H and S regs...
If he can't reach and its the only one then he shouldn't have taken on the job...
Very unprofessional and needs to be classed as a cowboy operator.

And just for the record this guy earns more than a lot of guys on here do.....

Regards
MR H
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: clean on March 10, 2008, 06:45:01 pm
He can`t afford a long enough pole,either that or he`s to tight to buy one.It`s probobly the highest work he has so feels a longer pole is not worth the money.

here here

He don`t need to purchase a complete pole just 1 more section,cheap enough  ;)
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: cvdewsbury on March 10, 2008, 06:47:59 pm
I wonder if he his using pure water...answers on a postcard please!!
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Dean Aspects on March 10, 2008, 06:49:22 pm
Makes no difference.... Still breaking H and S regs...
If he can't reach and its the only one then he shouldn't have taken on the job...
Very unprofessional and needs to be classed as a cowboy operator.

And just for the record this guy earns more than a lot of guys on here do.....

Regards
MR H

I take it you know the guy if you know how much he earns

Dean
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: LWC on March 10, 2008, 06:49:57 pm
i wouldve faced the ladders the other way myself
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: nat on March 10, 2008, 06:53:06 pm
i wouldve faced the ladders the other way myself

i would of bought the correct pole ;)
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: pingu on March 10, 2008, 06:54:41 pm
It's so very easy to rip someone apart is'nt it....as we are all very safety concious and have never had to bend rules or improvise every now and then.

More than likely just a normal bod like the rest of us trying to make a living.

Dave.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: dai on March 10, 2008, 06:56:31 pm
What a plonker, I would have stood on the wall and done both windows at the same time.
Be fair guys, most of us have taken far greater risks than this guy. Dai
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Mr H on March 10, 2008, 06:56:42 pm
I hope midlands health and safety see that and close him down or at least fine him...
He's breaking so many regs......

Regards
Mr H

what ones?

Not got 3 points of contact with the ladder
Arms above head height when working from a ladder.
Using a domestic and not a commercial ladder.
Looks like a FG pole so therefore more than 5kg weight above shoulder level.
Ladder should be facing the work and not 90 degrees to it.
Ladders are not permitted for work above 18ft unless secured to the structure beg worked on. The top half of the top windows are above that height I recon...
Not 100% sure but I recon wrong footwear.

Plus it is alleged that the guy is a thieving low life who steels from other WCs...

Regards
MR H



Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: sair on March 10, 2008, 06:58:46 pm
i love it. you ve got to admire his ingenuity!

we all do silly things

Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: nat on March 10, 2008, 07:01:01 pm
What a plonker, I would have stood on the wall and done both windows at the same time.
Be fair guys, most of us have taken far greater risks than this guy. Dai

leaning backwards, i rekon his head would land on the kerb, what do you rekon? ;) i call that a risk to far!!
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: MSTAV on March 10, 2008, 07:04:30 pm
he isnt above 18 foot himself though is he.. hes halfway up a stepladder. just bit dangerous with a fully extended pole..mr h are you mr h and s???you seem too know a lot about it all lol... ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Mr H on March 10, 2008, 07:08:48 pm
he isnt above 18 foot himself though is he.. hes halfway up a stepladder. just bit dangerous with a fully extended pole..mr h are you mr h and s???you seem too know a lot about it all lol... ;D

No I'm not Mr  H(& S)....  :D
I just recently read up on ladder regulations and a friend of mine is a H & S officer and we went through some aspects of my work with WFP and ladder safety to make sure I was safe and legal as a training exercise for one of the staff training courses he does.....

Regards
Mr H

Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: simon knight on March 10, 2008, 07:14:11 pm
I hope midlands health and safety see that and close him down or at least fine him...
He's breaking so many regs......

Regards
Mr H

The guy is only trying to earn a crust Mr H.

Let him earn it in the way he does best and keep your nose out...."closing him down or fining him"...shame on you!

what ones?

Not got 3 points of contact with the ladder
Arms above head height when working from a ladder.
Using a domestic and not a commercial ladder.
Looks like a FG pole so therefore more than 5kg weight above shoulder level.
Ladder should be facing the work and not 90 degrees to it.
Ladders are not permitted for work above 18ft unless secured to the structure beg worked on. The top half of the top windows are above that height I recon...
Not 100% sure but I recon wrong footwear.

Plus it is alleged that the guy is a thieving low life who steels from other WCs...

Regards
MR H




Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 07:18:19 pm
a members wife saw this guy across the street from her house, she showed her husband who is wfp the pics she had taken  from her window, and he could not believe she took these snaps, has to be the best pics  ever  ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: TVCS on March 10, 2008, 07:21:26 pm
I think pingu and Dai have said it best.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: pjulk on March 10, 2008, 07:37:20 pm
I would have pulled my van round and stood on that  ;D


Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: rugby on March 10, 2008, 07:51:14 pm
I think pingu and Dai have said it best.

i agree,give the guy a break
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: MNWC on March 10, 2008, 08:05:52 pm
Where about in the country is the picture taken, Jo ??

marcus...
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jeff1 on March 10, 2008, 08:19:04 pm
Perhaps the Chappy was confused and ordered the wrong size pole to begin with. ::)

Just a good point from Dave of St Ives?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=51657.20
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 08:22:57 pm
twekinbury if thats how its pronunced  ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: [GQC] Tim on March 10, 2008, 08:25:58 pm
Isn't that bad is it?
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: MNWC on March 10, 2008, 08:27:12 pm
Oh, Its not the guy im thinking of then ......Shame  ;D ;D

Marcus...
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Pj on March 10, 2008, 08:32:43 pm
Maybe he's just started out with wfp.

Invested cautiously/wisely in a backpack and one pole first........to "test the water" and lo and behold he finds people sticking their head out of top floor windows asking if he can do theirs too........

Maybe, like me his knees have had it and he'd stopped doing 3rd floor stuff from the ladder years ago and suddenly he realises he can do them too

What's he going to do, say no?

It is the easiest thing in the world to criticize someone

Maybe he's browsing on here now wondering who will give him some helpful advice on which 35' pole he should now buy

So which 35' pole would you advise me to get?
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 08:33:12 pm
no its not that bad, but if you had to read the paper the next day window cleaner killed falling from ladder  into the front path of a vehicle turing that corner,while wfp from a little step ladder, you must admit there is no footing of the ladder, plus both his hands are on the pole, it seems silly but what he was doing by the road side was dangerous,
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Pj on March 10, 2008, 08:39:41 pm
Fair comment Joe, it is not very safe for him or others, as he now realises.

Mind you, is it rush hour round that estate? ;D

I still do some pretty daft things every week and I'm in my 22nd year, 3rd year wfp.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: L.J.Thorpe on March 10, 2008, 08:46:47 pm
Oh, Its not the guy im thinking of then ......Shame ;D ;D

Marcus...
who were you thinking of ???
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 08:52:48 pm
as he now realises.?? it was not you was it pj  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 10, 2008, 09:03:32 pm
Nothing better to do? ::)

Leave him alone, he's fine.
Not even two foot off the ground.

Hope he's got his oxygen pack. ::)
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: BUFTON on March 10, 2008, 09:11:02 pm
i'd have used taller steps as ime only 5'6" ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: BUFTON on March 10, 2008, 09:13:32 pm
I hope midlands health and safety see that and close him down or at least fine him...
He's breaking so many regs......

Regards
Mr H

what ones?

Not got 3 points of contact with the ladder
Arms above head height when working from a ladder.
Using a domestic and not a commercial ladder.
Looks like a FG pole so therefore more than 5kg weight above shoulder level.
Ladder should be facing the work and not 90 degrees to it.
Ladders are not permitted for work above 18ft unless secured to the structure beg worked on. The top half of the top windows are above that height I recon...
Not 100% sure but I recon wrong footwear.

Plus it is alleged that the guy is a thieving low life who steels from other WCs...

Regards
MR H

are you Mr H of H&Safety?  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: mark311069 on March 10, 2008, 09:14:55 pm
hes just trying to make a quid like we all do,
not everyone has a all singing and dancing van mount and 5 poles.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: jouk45 on March 10, 2008, 09:26:03 pm
mark its not about  how many vans we have or poles,  its about safety,  thats how we all moved over to wfp in the first place, but you do have to laugh at the pics, ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: danny mckim on March 10, 2008, 09:35:07 pm
Maybe this guy  stays here and is doing his own windows!  It happens

If  my wife was taking pictures of other windowcleaners i think i would be a bit concerned............



                Danny
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: scud on March 10, 2008, 10:00:05 pm
  Have I logged onto a wrong site?

  Is this the sewing circle site?

  I have several jobs where I stand on my van roof to reach, for God's sake live and let live, the bloke is only 2 steps up a step ladder trying to earn a living.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Mike 108 on March 10, 2008, 10:16:05 pm
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: brett walker on March 10, 2008, 10:38:06 pm
lol

it wood be more dangerous crossing a busy road ;D


can any one donate a longer pole to him


brett
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: peter holley on March 10, 2008, 11:07:21 pm
this guy in the picture is doing a house that he has stolen from another wc by saying he has taken over the round..

i know this to be fact >:( >:( >:( >:(

and no its not me >:(
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Pj on March 10, 2008, 11:09:38 pm
Well now

Thats a different story of health and safety >:(
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: mark dew on March 10, 2008, 11:29:11 pm
if he's gonna use a stepladder he should at least have it facing onto the job. They have no stability from the side and i wouldn't go up 1 anymore because of it.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: poleman on March 10, 2008, 11:48:35 pm
this guy in the picture is doing a house that he has stolen from another wc by saying he has taken over the round..

i know this to be fact >:( >:( >:( >:(

and no its not me >:(


If he was taking work of me, no way would I sit back and let it happen, the photo would be sent to the local enforce officer, many have said he is not doing anything wrong, well they are wrong, and Mr H points are spot on, he has a good understanding off H&S and so do I

Andy   
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: WCE on March 11, 2008, 12:41:44 am
After reading this post I am sure I know who it is and where the photos are taken. The guy has certainly didn't order the wrong size pole It's the pole he recommends and the best bit is he cant even take his own advice! Here's a quote of his from october 05 "my advice is wherever possible, use a pole which is long enough for what you need it for & no longer. My business is entirely residential & I use an 18 foot pole which reaches 98% of residential work. The other 2% I can live without." Obviously not!
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 11, 2008, 05:21:20 am
I did exactly the same myself once when I didn't have a longer pole with me so I'm not going to knock the guy.  I did have the ladder facing the job though.  When I did it, it was only for one window.  I climb higher than that on stepladders regularly to lean over gates when undoing bolts.  Not sure what all the fuss is about as he might only be doing one property that way.  Maybe he has a longer pole but it got broken.  Easy to criticise when not knowing full facts.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Ian_Giles on March 11, 2008, 06:29:44 am
It's one photo taken in isolation, and we all do things we shouldn't, most of us will break health & safety regs on a regular basis to some degree or another.

And if this fella is a forum member this thread will be removed...libel and so on...can't go around calling someone a low life!

But just to make a comment on his work practice...what he is doing is potentially quite dangerous, and most of the serious accidents on ladders happen on the lowest rungs.
just because he isn't 30ft up a ladder doesn't make this any less dangerous or precarious.

And the problem with health & safety is that there is always another little step that can be taken...
Did you know that on a building site, if you haven't got a certificate, you are not even supposed to change the blade on an angle grinder?
Why the hell does a painter and decorator need to wear a hard hat on site when he is the last guy on said site, construction finished, where is the risk of things falling on his head?
And if there is a risk, what is the probability of something falling on his head to cause injury?
There is a probability of course, easy enough to envisage a scenario where it could happen, which is what H & S does, but the likelihood of it happening is remote....

Work beckons...gotta go!

Ian
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: cbcs on March 11, 2008, 06:48:41 am
This guy needs reporting. What a tool.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 11, 2008, 08:32:27 am
This guy needs reporting. What a tool.
Yeah, what a daredevil maniac. ::)

What's wrong with you fairies?
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: craig b on March 11, 2008, 09:06:03 am
poleman your so into to health and safety ..
i see in your  flyer your not wearing a hi vis jacket, no safety sign and and id be sure your not wearing steel toe cap boots.
is your staff kitted out the same way..(may be it is one of your staff if so you havent trained them very well)

no ones perfect ..
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: [GQC] Tim on March 11, 2008, 10:10:19 am
This guy needs reporting. What a tool.
Yeah, what a daredevil maniac. ::)

What's wrong with you fairies?

Yea, I'm sure that in 6 weeks you can take 3 pics of me doing a more dangerous thing. lol
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: williamx on March 11, 2008, 10:16:33 am
The reason that the Working at Height Directive was brought out, was because ladder users were going that one step too far, with regard to their own safety, and they either injured or killed themselves.

When the regulation was actioned in 2005, there was an uproar from ladder users about it, yet there are still people who think that its alright to do some jobs where safety is not an issue and accidents could happen.

It is up to us professionals to try and work safely, and when we see others who don't, then we need to criticized them, not congratulate them as some type of hero.

If we don't, then more restricting regulations will be come law, which we be enforced more rigorously.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: s.hughes on March 11, 2008, 10:25:12 am
I cleaned a building like that guy once and it was even higher and on a slope. I did have someone holding the ladder. Once was enough I invested in a longer pole, it only does the one job and cost a fare bit but was worth it.

Steve
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: *foxman on March 11, 2008, 10:28:02 am
H + S guys wouldn't do a thing!! If an officer passed him and decided to stop they would just tell him to get down and that would be it.

Reporting him would be a waste of time too, what would be the point? He wouldn't get fined or anything. Its a bit stupid but as they say necessity is the mother of invention! ;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 11, 2008, 11:50:34 am
I regularly use a hop up to do trad work on bungalows too where the ground falls away.  Nothing dangerous in it.  The thing I use is actually designed to be a hop up.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: WCE on March 11, 2008, 12:08:39 pm
The thing is not so much the danger to himself but what about others? If he was to slip and drop the pole he could drop it straight on someones head or given how close he is to the road he could easily drop it through someones windscreen with dire consequences. Also, The estate that the pictures taken on is still being developed and the road shown is on the main traffic route into the site and is also on the route to the local school so does get busy. Personally I don't care so much for his personal safety (thats his choice) but do think he should consider the potential danger to others. How would feel if someone dropped a pole on your child's head?
I regularly use a hop up to do trad work on bungalows too where the ground falls away.  Nothing dangerous in it.  The thing I use is actually designed to be a hop up.
That maybe the case but your not using an 18ft pole off it. There is no comparison  what you do is totally different and the risks different.
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 11, 2008, 12:10:00 pm
I regularly use a hop up to do trad work on bungalows too where the ground falls away.  Nothing dangerous in it.  The thing I use is actually designed to be a hop up.
Does it look like this?
I'm not sure it's legal.

Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 11, 2008, 12:17:24 pm
I regularly use a hop up to do trad work on bungalows too where the ground falls away.  Nothing dangerous in it.  The thing I use is actually designed to be a hop up.
Does it look like this?
I'm not sure it's legal.





;D
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: poleman on March 11, 2008, 03:10:54 pm
poleman your so into to health and safety ..

Errr YES I have a duty of care to my employees ::) 

Andy
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: craig b on March 11, 2008, 06:04:49 pm
so its you on the flyer then with out your safety gear on
nice one good example
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Mr H on March 11, 2008, 06:36:19 pm
so its you on the flyer then with out your safety gear on
nice one good example

Seeing as it is a "staged" picture then a lot of H and S issues are already covered. No need for Hi-viz as it doesn't look like a public area. No need for a hard hat. He is posing for a picture and so not working, not even from a ladder, then no need for protective footwear. As there are other members of staff around and private property then the need for signs is either reduced or removed.........

So which Health and Safety reg is he actually breaking Craig.......?

Regards
Mr H


Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: frames to panes on March 11, 2008, 06:44:37 pm
Is the original picture in this thread not staged? He looks rather like a well known member from Somerset who's missus often does a bit of wfp too ??? think someone's having a giggle here ?
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: craig b on March 11, 2008, 06:57:40 pm
ok its staged as i  thought .
if you our so h&s perfect you should know that  you should always think safe and be safe  
if he had done a risk assesment and method statement for that job surely he would have safe working  methods in it  if he thought he needed them or not..

hes not perfect just like us all .
you just dont no when an accident could happen. ( think SAFE think SMART!!)

he could put that on his van..
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: frames to panes on March 11, 2008, 07:20:09 pm
Or trailer?
Title: Re: whats? the point being wfp
Post by: Moderator David@stives on March 11, 2008, 07:24:59 pm
This is true

A pole supplier reccommended i do the same as the man in the picture to raise and lower there pole.

Dave